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Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#39368 Mar 1, 2014
Everyone have a good day. Remember, all theology aside.... God won't ask us on judgement day how many scripture verses we memorized.

Did you love your neighbor? did you bear false witness against a group of people? Did you lie to advance yourself? Did you help someone in need?
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39369 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>

. Therefore, just because it's written, "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced," does not mean it was Father that got pierced in the literal sense.
.
So, are you saying God is lying here? God is not speaking of HIMSELF? and God was not SPEAKING here?

If God is not speaking of HIMSELF....wouldn't He have said "They will look upon my SON, whom they have pierced??

God is not a God of confusion....He states clearly what He SPEAKS....He is TRUTH, God cannot LIE.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39370 Mar 1, 2014
Liam wrote:
The ''official" Jewish canon came after Christianity began. I put official in quotes because even unto this day, the Ethiopian Jews have the 7 Books the Catholic Churches have. So not all Jewish sects have the same collection nor did they have the same collection back in Jesus' day.
The Pharisees had roughly what's in your KJV.
The Saduccees had 5 Books. The Torah. They did not recognize Daniel or Isaiah as inspired by God.
The Essenes had more Books as revealed by the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls.
For the record, I was referring to the texts accepted and preserved by the sons of Aaron and the Levites.
Liam wrote:
You imply that the NT manuscripts were because of the congregation at Antioch, not the Catholic Church? That's ironic. Because even if you were correct, you just unknowingly admitted that it was the Catholic Church!
The Church in Antioch was founded by Peter. He made Ignatius (who we discussed) the Bishop of that see. " Catholic" Means "Universal", Uni, one.
Here is what Peter's Bishop said around 90 AD
"wherever the Bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to Baptize or give communion without the consent of the Bishop, therefore whatever has his approval will be pleasing to God, thus will be safe and valid"
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch
Correction: The term "catholic" wasn't used by Ignatius to promote the Catholic organization as it's known today. As you stated (and at that time), the term "catholic" was used simply to provoke a universal understanding, if you will, reflecting John 17:21. This says, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us." It wasn't until Cyril of Jerusalem (circa AD 360) used the term that it became the official name for the organization.
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39371 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>

Compelled to interject, I must say this.
It seems to me that you're allowing your dislike for the "Jehovah's Witness" organization to influence your attitude toward Student and their posts.

...
It's long been established that such so-called "holidays," such as Christmas and Easter, are rooted in paganism, but people continue to observe these traditions for fear of offending their loved ones and with no regard as to how our Godhead feels about such observances.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Please....there is no need to thank me each time you are giving your opinion on my post.
You have a right to disagree ( a Free gift from God).....you speak as if you have "Honey in your mouth"!

My dislike is with the "watch tower organization"......God gave us FREE WILL....to be able to ASK questions....did He not? and God wants us to TEST the doctrines, to know if it is of Christ or not .....Do you know the scripture it states this?

This Student person....says he/she is a JW. If he/she is a JW, then; he/she worships the "watch tower" and not our Heavenly Father.

JW 's at one time also celebrated Christmas and Birthdays. Some still secretly do.

I could care less if it is ROOTED in Peganism......so is a LOT of things.

You really think GOD is offended to our acknowledging and celebrating Jesus Christ's Birthday ,(birthday as we know it)

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39372 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
So, are you saying God is lying here? God is not speaking of HIMSELF? and God was not SPEAKING here?
If God is not speaking of HIMSELF....wouldn't He have said "They will look upon my SON, whom they have pierced??
God is not a God of confusion....He states clearly what He SPEAKS....He is TRUTH, God cannot LIE.
Are you contending against the scriptures I quoted that, as I believe, prove my assertions, or just my assertions alone?

Be careful to note that I not only shared my beliefs, but quoted scriptures that, as I believe, perfectly coincide with my beliefs. If you believe I polluted the interpretation of the scriptures, then feel free to correct my errors, please and if you will. And if you will, consider the following...

Zechariah 12:10 (partial)...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Of a surety, you notice that the term "him" is used, clearly making a distinction that can most easily be perceived as contradiction to the unlearned. It's unwise to hold fast to only the one that reinforces your personal beliefs while blatantly ignoring the other.

John 14:28 ...my Father is greater than I.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

1Corinthians 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when [the Son] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when [the Father] shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For [the Son] must reign, till [the Father] hath put all enemies under [the Son's] feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For [the Father] hath put all things under [the Son's] feet. But when [the Father] saith, all things are put under [the Son], it is manifest that [the Father] is excepted, which did put all things under [the Son]. And when all things shall be subdued unto [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto [the Father] that put all things under [the Son], that God may be all in all.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39373 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
Please....there is no need to thank me each time you are giving your opinion on my post.
I apologize if I'm offending you with my politeness. But, that's my way of ensuring that conversations I have remain congenial. Atheists and unbelievers thrive on arguments had by believers and are quick to blame our Godhead for such negative thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, to the point of denying their very existence.
lovewithin wrote:
You have a right to disagree ( a Free gift from God).....you speak as if you have "Honey in your mouth"!
Yes, I do have the right to disagree, as we all do. Is the "Honey in [my] mouth" comment a compliment, or not?
lovewithin wrote:
My dislike is with the "watch tower organization"......God gave us FREE WILL....to be able to ASK questions....did He not?
I'm sure, then, that you have extensive knowledge regarding the "Watchtower" organization to contend against them so vehemently, yes?
lovewithin wrote:
and God wants us to TEST the doctrines, to know if it is of Christ or not .....Do you know the scripture it states this?
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
lovewithin wrote:
This Student person....says he/she is a JW. If he/she is a JW, then; he/she worships the "watch tower" and not our Heavenly Father.
Having discussed doctrine for many years with Jehovah's Witnesses, I personally wouldn't go so far as to say they "worship the Watchtower and not our heavenly Father." Hold it in high regards? Yes. But, worship? I think not. Regardless, you come off, to me, as quite argumentative. Such an attitude will never edify others. If anything, such an attitude provokes hatred.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
lovewithin wrote:
JW 's at one time also celebrated Christmas and Birthdays. Some still secretly do.
Many secretly commit adultery and fornicate, too.
lovewithin wrote:
I could care less if it is ROOTED in Peganism......so is a LOT of things.
So says a majority of those that profess themselves as "Christian."

2Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
lovewithin wrote:
You really think GOD is offended to our acknowledging and celebrating Jesus Christ's Birthday ,(birthday as we know it)
No. But, I know Father gets offended when we observe man-made traditions that are rooted in paganism.

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Haggai 2:11-14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying, If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No. Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean. Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the LORD; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.

Conclusion: Just because we stamp "God," "Christ," or what-have-you, on a pagan celebration, or anything else for that matter, it doesn't make it acceptable.
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39374 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I apologize if I'm offending you with my politeness. But, that's my way of ensuring that conversations I have remain congenial. Atheists and unbelievers thrive on arguments had by believers and are quick to blame our Godhead for such negative thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, to the point of denying their very existence.
<quoted text>Yes, I do have the right to disagree, as we all do. Is the "Honey in [my] mouth" comment a compliment, or not?
<quoted text>I'm sure, then, that you have extensive knowledge regarding the "Watchtower" organization to contend against them so vehemently, yes?
<quoted text>1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
<quoted text>Having discussed doctrine for many years with Jehovah's Witnesses, I personally wouldn't go so far as to say they "worship the Watchtower and not our heavenly Father." Hold it in high regards? Yes. But, worship? I think not. Regardless, you come off, to me, as quite argumentative. Such an attitude will never edify others. If anything, such an attitude provokes hatred.
Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
<quoted text>Many secretly commit adultery and fornicate, too.
<quoted text>So says a majority of those that profess themselves as "Christian."
2Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
<quoted text>No. But, I know Father gets offended when we observe man-made traditions that are rooted in paganism.
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Haggai 2:11-14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying, If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No. Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean. Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the LORD; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.
Conclusion: Just because we stamp "God," "Christ," or what-have-you, on a pagan celebration, or anything else for that matter, it doesn't make it acceptable.
Just because someone on here DISAGREES with you....does not mean they are Argumentative....so please do not put this label on me .... when I argue you will KNOW it!

Should I put that label on your post to LIAM? Some of your replies to him/her sure sounds close to it!

Offending me with your politeness? Is it polite to say "Thank You" BEFORE you know if what they say is what you would say 'Thank you too? Someone might reply back with a very cruel opinion of what you posted.....would you THANK them for it?

You speak as if you have honey in your mouth....is not a compliment. there is a scripture on that...you might know it.

I have heard people speak sweet as honey.....then be the first to stab you in the back....beware of those.

You specifically said HOLIDAYS....that is what I was discussing . Yes , many secretly do many other SINS. I would not put celebrating Holidays as SINFUL..would you?

When Jesus was in the FLESH , He was gave up the powers He was in Heaven, to become HUMAN

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV)

JW strongly worship the 'watch tower., it is their IDOL.....they would not be caught without it in their MEETINGS....they would leave their Bibles before they would WT!
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39375 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Compelled to interject, I must say this.
It seems to me that you're allowing your dislike for the "Jehovah's Witness" organization to influence your attitude toward Student and their posts. I'm sure that Student's answer to your first question will be Romans 7:7-11. These say, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." In other words, I believe Student's point is that if we're unaware of a spiritual error and read of it in one of "Jehovah's Witness'" publications, then we'll be held accountable for what we've read from that point on. And most likely, the answer to your second question will be Luke 14:26. This says, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." In concordance, it was prophesied, "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household (Matthew 10:36)." So, the danger Student's most likely referring to is choosing what's expected of our family, for fear of offending them, before choosing what's expected of our Godhead. Case in point...
It's long been established that such so-called "holidays," such as Christmas and Easter, are rooted in paganism, but people continue to observe these traditions for fear of offending their loved ones and with no regard as to how our Godhead feels about such observances.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
You were compelled to answer those 2 questions for Student?

Do you think that would be the answer Student would have said to those 2 questions?

So ... STUDENT...is that the answer you would have given for those 2 questions?
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39376 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Conclusion: Just because we stamp "God," "Christ," or what-have-you, on a pagan celebration, or anything else for that matter, it doesn't make it acceptable.
AMEN!
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39377 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Are you contending against the scriptures I quoted that, as I believe, prove my assertions, or just my assertions alone?
Be careful to note that I not only shared my beliefs, but quoted scriptures that, as I believe, perfectly coincide with my beliefs. If you believe I polluted the interpretation of the scriptures, then feel free to correct my errors, please and if you will. And if you will, consider the following...
Zechariah 12:10 (partial)...and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Of a surety, you notice that the term "him" is used, clearly making a distinction that can most easily be perceived as contradiction to the unlearned. It's unwise to hold fast to only the one that reinforces your personal beliefs while blatantly ignoring the other.
John 14:28 ...my Father is greater than I.
John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
1Corinthians 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when [the Son] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when [the Father] shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For [the Son] must reign, till [the Father] hath put all enemies under [the Son's] feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For [the Father] hath put all things under [the Son's] feet. But when [the Father] saith, all things are put under [the Son], it is manifest that [the Father] is excepted, which did put all things under [the Son]. And when all things shall be subdued unto [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto [the Father] that put all things under [the Son], that God may be all in all.
EXAMPLE ..only an example:

Brother lee Love said to the crowd " He has a broken leg" the crowd looked upon HIM with the broken leg as He spoke.

Are we still to ASSUME this is Brother Lee Love that the crowd is listening too?
lovewithin

Aurora, CO

#39378 Mar 1, 2014
Jehovah witnesses are not true disciples of Christ .

They are a cult
Student

Mexico

#39380 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
<quoted text>
You were compelled to answer those 2 questions for Student?
Do you think that would be the answer Student would have said to those 2 questions?
So ... STUDENT...is that the answer you would have given for those 2 questions?
Brother Lee Love answered your question from the Scriptures as I would have.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#39381 Mar 1, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
Close your eyes and envision the Holy Bible without chapters and verses.(besides, chapters and verses were the invention of the Catholic Church in Rome ) you don't wanna embrace anything "Roman Catholic" do ya?
1Timothy 4:1 would not apply to the Catholic Church. Their teachings can be shown in every decade since Christ. Maybe Marian doctrine and dogma can't explicitly be shown, but its certainly revealed that Catholics pre Constantine and post Constantine believed in the things we believe about Mary.
Counting beads or prayer beads: This was first began around 200 AD when literacy was around 15%(more proof of the impossibility of sola scripture) monks would recite the 150 psalms daily. The Bible as we know it, didn't exist. Scrolls were scarce. Nobody sat in pews with their Bibles...( The official canon didn't even happen for another 200 yrs)!.. People like you and I couldn't read and follow along, so we invented prayer beads. When the Monks would begin the psalms, we'd quietly substitute the Lords Prayer in lieu of the psalms, keeping track of which psalm we were on by moving our hands on the beads.

Prayer beads came from Hinduism via Buddhism along the silk road.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#39382 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I apologize if I'm offending you with my politeness. But, that's my way of ensuring that conversations I have remain congenial. Atheists and unbelievers thrive on arguments had by believers and are quick to blame our Godhead for such negative thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, to the point of denying their very existence.

I have been enjoying your posts so far, but this struck me as funny. Have you seen the fine examples of Christianity that some of our brothers have demonstrated in other forums. I have found other religions and even atheists to be at least equal in terms of politeness.

Something we all need to be aware of and work on.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39383 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
Just because someone on here DISAGREES with you....does not mean they are Argumentative....
No, it doesn't. But, I'm not referring to the fact that you disagree with virtually every single post by Student, but the overall negative attitude that resonates through what you post (as it seems to me). Perhaps, I went too far by saying you were argumentative, which I did also say that that's how it merely seems to me. Perhaps, you're just always on the defensive. Or, perhaps, I wouldn't believe as I do had you addressed the scriptures Student posted rather than just arguing against everything they post. I was only trying to help. And in saying that...

Proverbs 15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
lovewithin wrote:
so please do not put this label on me ....
So you know, my intention was not, nor will it ever be, to label you.
lovewithin wrote:
when I argue you will KNOW it!
Thanks for the warning. And I'll surely take that into consideration.
lovewithin wrote:
Should I put that label on your post to LIAM? Some of your replies to him/her sure sounds close to it!
Apparently, you and Liam have totally different perspectives of my posts, because Liam appreciated the fact that I was respectful. Regardless, "close to it" doesn't mean "is."
lovewithin wrote:
Offending me with your politeness? Is it polite to say "Thank You" BEFORE you know if what they say is what you would say 'Thank you too?
Yes, it is.
lovewithin wrote:
Someone might reply back with a very cruel opinion of what you posted.....would you THANK them for it?
If I thanked them ahead of time, then yes. I could easily say that I'd take it back, but we all know that's not actually possible. In the end, they'll be responsible for how they reacted and responded. Not me.
lovewithin wrote:
You speak as if you have honey in your mouth....is not a compliment.
The opposite of "compliment" is "insult." Duly noted, lovewithin.
lovewithin wrote:
there is a scripture on that...you might know it.
I'm aware of scriptures that bear both, a positive and negative connotation to the saying. Regardless, thank you for insulting me, lovewithin.
lovewithin wrote:
I have heard people speak sweet as honey.....then be the first to stab you in the back....beware of those.
I'll be aware. Thank you. But, why would you say such a thing about me? How well do you know me?
lovewithin wrote:
You specifically said HOLIDAYS....
Correction: I said, specifically, "so-called 'holidays'." I say "so-called" and put quotations around "holiday(s)" because the term actually means "holy day(s)." Any festival or celebration rooted in paganism is not a holiday. Passover, as instituted by our Godhead, is a holiday.
lovewithin wrote:
that is what I was discussing . Yes , many secretly do many other SINS. I would not put celebrating Holidays as SINFUL..would you?
No, I wouldn't. But, I do believe it's sinful to observe pagan-based celebrations and festivals. Holidays are a different story altogether, though. And not the days we call "holidays," either.
lovewithin wrote:
When Jesus was in the FLESH , He was gave up the powers He was in Heaven, to become HUMAN
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV)
And I agree, fully. However, a clear distinction by scriptural evidence still exists between Father and Yahowshua whether during his pre-human existence, during his present-human existence, or his post-human existence.
lovewithin wrote:
JW strongly worship the 'watch tower., it is their IDOL.....they would not be caught without it in their MEETINGS....they would leave their Bibles before they would WT!
That's your opinion and I respect it. I might not agree with you, but that's irrelevant, I guess.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#39384 Mar 1, 2014
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Brother Lee Love answered your question from the Scriptures as I would have.

You have never demonstrated that you are able to answer questions for yourself. I think that should be concerning for you. You should also be concerned at your lack of actual knowledge of Christianity and should consider doing a lot more study of the history of the faith and the history of cults like the JWs.

By their fruits ye shall know them. By your lack of fruit we know you.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39385 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
You were compelled to answer those 2 questions for Student?
Yes, I was, in an attempt to quench the flame of contention before it grew stronger.
lovewithin wrote:
Do you think that would be the answer Student would have said to those 2 questions?
Yes. And I base my present answer, also, on the fact that Student has already answered, and they said "Yes," too.
lovewithin wrote:
So ... STUDENT...is that the answer you would have given for those 2 questions?
Again, Student answered "Yes" to your inquiry.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#39386 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
Jehovah witnesses are not true disciples of Christ .
They are a cult

This is pretty self evident to anyone who is not infected by the cult. What is interesting is how arrogant JW dubs are. Arrogance is generally a symptom of LOW self esteem. Why do so many of them have issues with self esteem that they seek to get filled by the cult? Do they come to the cult with these problems or is it a symptom of the damage done by the watchtower over time?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#39387 Mar 1, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>No, it doesn't. But, I'm not referring to the fact that you disagree with virtually every single post by Student, but the overall negative attitude that resonates through what you post (as it seems to me).

Student is very deserving of criticism. Since you are new here I cut you some slack. Student is unable to think for himself and refuse to examine evidence we have provided for him. He simply cuts and pasts quotes from jw.org and feels he has answered a question. Often he has not even understood the issue well enough to cut and paste something relevant.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39388 Mar 1, 2014
lovewithin wrote:
EXAMPLE ..only an example:
Brother lee Love said to the crowd " He has a broken leg" the crowd looked upon HIM with the broken leg as He spoke.
Are we still to ASSUME this is Brother Lee Love that the crowd is listening too?
Obviously, the crowd would be listening to me. But, I believe that the crowd would naturally begin looking around for another person, other than myself, with a broken leg considering that I used the term "he."

Brother Lee Love said to the crowd, "He has a broken leg!" The crowd, then, looked around for this "he" Brother Lee Love mentioned, whose leg is also broken. Then, when they noticed there was nobody else present within sight that has a broken leg, they said to one another, "This Brother Lee Love is delusional! He referred to himself as "he!"

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