Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39264 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
Ironically, Catholic translators came up with the name for YHWH as "Jehovah" in the 13th century by combining the consonants of yahweh with "Adonai". The resulting sound was "Yahowah" and when written in Latin, was Jehovah, without pronouncing the J.
You see, immediately the Jehovah's Witness religion began with a lie.
As Joseph Rotherham pointed out in the forward to his translation - "Trying to spell the name of God by plugging the vowels of Adonai into YHWH would be like trying to spell Germany with the vowels of Portugal. "

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39265 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
As Joseph Rotherham pointed out in the forward to his translation - "Trying to spell the name of God by plugging the vowels of Adonai into YHWH would be like trying to spell Germany with the vowels of Portugal. "

Yes, that is obviously nonsensical and indicates the monk who did the translation did not know what he was doing and essentially just made up a new name.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#39266 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
Thank you for that input, but you provide no Scripture to validate your claim that Paul (or any other 1st century messianic follower) had stopped keeping Yahweh's Law - especially the Sabbath.
Matt 5:18 "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great."
Ignatius of Antioch was ordained a Bishop by Peter and was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. Prior to his martyrdom, he wrote a series of letters that are still preserved to this day.
One addresses the Sabbath for Christians:

"for even unto this day, if we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace... If then those who have walked in ancient practices attained unto them newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lords day, Sunday, in which OUR lives ALSO rose through him and through his death, which some men deny.... How shall we live apart from him? It is monsterous to talk of Jesus Christ and still practice Judaism. For Christianity didn't believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity"
Letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius of Antioch.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

Rather than isolate the Bible into thousands of verses that could be debated til we're blue in the face, read the writings of the men who sat, walked, ate and slept beside the Apostles. We get an idea of how the faith was communicated verbally.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39267 Feb 26, 2014
LIAM IS CORRECT!

As stated by yon and the verse quoted, none of the law became "destroyed," but certain and specific laws were fulfilled. And this is what causes so much confusion in the myriad of so-called "Christian" denominations around the globe.

Question: Are we expected to keep the seventh-day Sabbath?

Answer: Yes.

Question: But, how?

When our anointed Savior died, certain and specific laws became fulfilled (not destroyed) in him. To understand, to be "fulfilled" means that the law remains, but fulfilled by another means. Among these laws were...

1) The penalty of death (by other sinners). Considering that all are sinners, we've been given grace until the day of judgment. Our anointed Savior died, though, taking the penalty of death upon himself. Therefore, we can no longer put one another to death. This first fulfilled law coincides with the second, which is...

2) Sacrifice. Sacrifice gave us grace so that we weren't put to death for our willful sins. Our anointed Savior became the ultimate sacrifice for us. Therefore, we no longer have to sacrifice in order to be forgiven for our sins, as the sacrifice of our anointed Savior is a perpetual sacrifice and will never end.

3) Circumcision. Circumcision was a covenant that allowed Israel to enter into the second covenant "made of blood," or the covenant of sacrifice. Circumcision, as we most likely know, is the cutting off of the foreskin of the penis. If the first covenant wasn't fulfilled, the Israelite could never enter into the second covenant, but was "cut off" from the nation altogether. The death of our anointed Savior allowed, for Israel first and then, the Gentile, to enter into a covenant with Father by means of his own "cutting off" from life.

4) The Sabbaths. Each Sabbath represented something spiritual, but all Sabbaths, first and foremost, was a rest, or ceasing from work, given to the nation of Israel and it's proselytes. The first of the designated Sabbaths, of course, was the seventh-day Sabbath. It's written that the ultimate rest won't come until the Kingdom is established. But, until then, we have a present rest in our anointed Savior. In saying that, we must acknowledge our Sabbath, but it's no longer required to fulfill all the precepts of the Sabbath(s).

Thank you for your time and consideration.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39268 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignatius of Antioch was ordained a Bishop by Peter and was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. Prior to his martyrdom, he wrote a series of letters that are still preserved to this day.
One addresses the Sabbath for Christians:
"for even unto this day, if we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace... If then those who have walked in ancient practices attained unto them newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lords day, Sunday, in which OUR lives ALSO rose through him and through his death, which some men deny.... How shall we live apart from him? It is monsterous to talk of Jesus Christ and still practice Judaism. For Christianity didn't believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity"
Letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius of Antioch.
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

Rather than isolate the Bible into thousands of verses that could be debated til we're blue in the face, read the writings of the men who sat, walked, ate and slept beside the Apostles. We get an idea of how the faith was communicated verbally.
And by what authority did he change the Sabbath? We are not talking about practicing Judaism, or apostate church fathers, but following Scripture as did Messiah and the apostles. Anything else is heresy and is condemned.

Revelation 22:18
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."

Mark 7:7
"in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
Student

Heroica Nogales, Mexico

#39269 Feb 26, 2014
Daily Text

Wednesday, February 26

[Peer] into the perfect law that belongs to freedom.—Jas. 1:25.

“The perfect law that belongs to freedom” is not the Mosaic Law, for that code made transgressions manifest and was fulfilled in Christ.(Matt. 5:17; Gal. 3:19) To what law, then, was James referring? He had in mind “the law of the Christ,” also called “the law of faith” and “the law of a free people.”(Gal. 6:2; Rom. 3:27; Jas. 2:12)“The perfect law,” therefore, encompasses everything that Jehovah requires of us. Both anointed Christians and the “other sheep” benefit from it.(John 10:16) Unlike the law codes of many countries,“the perfect law” is neither complex nor burdensome but consists of simple commandments and basic principles.(1 John 5:3)“My yoke is kindly and my load is light,” said Jesus.(Matt. 11:29, 30) Additionally,“the perfect law” has no need for a long list of sanctions, or penalties, for it is founded on love and is engraved on minds and hearts.—Heb. 8:6, 10.(Examining the Scriptures Daily 2014)
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39270 Feb 26, 2014
Matthew 19:17
And he said to him,...." If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39271 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
`
LIAM IS CORRECT regarding Sabbath observance!

As stated by you and the verse you quoted, none of the law became "destroyed," but certain and specific laws were fulfilled. And this is what causes so much confusion in the myriad of so-called "Christian" denominations around the globe.

Question: Are we expected to keep the seventh-day Sabbath?

Answer: Yes.

Question: But, how?

When our anointed Savior died, certain and specific laws became fulfilled (not destroyed) in him. To understand, to be "fulfilled" means that the law remains, but fulfilled by another means. Among these laws were...

1) The penalty of death (by other sinners). Considering that all are sinners, we've been given grace until the day of judgment. Our anointed Savior died, though, taking the penalty of death upon himself. Therefore, we can no longer put one another to death. This first fulfilled law coincides with the second, which is...

2) Sacrifice. Sacrifice gave us grace so that we weren't put to death for our willful sins. Our anointed Savior became the ultimate sacrifice for us. Therefore, we no longer have to sacrifice in order to be forgiven for our sins, as the sacrifice of our anointed Savior is a perpetual sacrifice and will never end.

3) Circumcision. Circumcision was a covenant that allowed Israel to enter into the second covenant "made of blood," or the covenant of sacrifice. Circumcision, as we most likely know, is the cutting off of the foreskin of the penis. If the first covenant wasn't fulfilled, the Israelite could never enter into the second covenant, but was "cut off" from the nation altogether. The death of our anointed Savior allowed, for Israel first and then, the Gentile, to enter into a covenant with Father by means of his own "cutting off" from life.

4) The Sabbaths. Each Sabbath represented something spiritual, but all Sabbaths, first and foremost, was a rest, or ceasing from work, given to the nation of Israel and it's proselytes. The first of the designated Sabbaths, of course, was the seventh-day Sabbath. It's written that the ultimate rest won't come until the Kingdom is established. But, until then, we have a present rest in our anointed Savior. In saying that, we must acknowledge our Sabbath, but it's no longer required to fulfill all the precepts of the Sabbath(s).

Thank you for your time and consideration.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39272 Feb 26, 2014
Everyone wrote:
...a lot of things, but I've only just returned to Topix. Therefore, I can only begin this way...
To think that the law has been completely and entirely "done away with" is preposterous! On one occasion, Yahowshua ha'Mashiyach was asked, "What good thing shall I do, that I might have eternal life?" He answered, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." He was then asked, after that, "Which?" He, then, replied, "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother." Now, these, of course, are found in the Decalogue, at Exodus 20. But, the last commandment he cited was, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself," found at Leviticus 19:18. Furthermore, the Pharisees asked, "Which is the great commandment in the law?" Yahowshua ha'Mashiyach replied, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Now, we must acknowledge that neither are found in the Decalogue. The first mentioned is from Deuteronomy 6:5 and the second is from Leviticus 19:18. My point is, that as Yahowshua ha'Mashiyach found it necessary to include commandments found outside the Decalogue, then we must also accept the simple fact that the Decalogue is not the only commandments to be kept.

In addition to the aforementioned, we must consider what was instructed for the newly-converted "Gentiles" when the Judaizers were trying to impose circumcision on them. Peter instructed, "...that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." Of a surety, we again notice commandments that aren't found in the Decalogue.

And in need be said, we can most easily read how Paul wrote extensively on the law regarding marriage, separation, and divorce. And again, I'm sure it's unnecessary for me to mention that such laws are not found in the Decalogue.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39273 Feb 26, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>LIAM IS CORRECT regarding Sabbath observance!
As stated by you and the verse you quoted, none of the law became "destroyed," but certain and specific laws were fulfilled. And this is what causes so much confusion in the myriad of so-called "Christian" denominations around the globe.
Question: Are we expected to keep the seventh-day Sabbath?
Answer: Yes.
What is he correct about except that Ignatius was a "church father"?
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39274 Feb 26, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
When our anointed Savior died, certain and specific laws became fulfilled (not destroyed) in him. To understand, to be "fulfilled" means that the law remains,
Absolutely

BIBLE TRUE JEHOVA

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#39275 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignatius of Antioch was ordained a Bishop by Peter and was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. Prior to his martyrdom, he wrote a series of letters that are still preserved to this day.
One addresses the Sabbath for Christians:
"for even unto this day, if we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace... If then those who have walked in ancient practices attained unto them newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lords day, Sunday, in which OUR lives ALSO rose through him and through his death, which some men deny.... How shall we live apart from him? It is monsterous to talk of Jesus Christ and still practice Judaism. For Christianity didn't believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity"
Letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius of Antioch.
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch
Rather than isolate the Bible into thousands of verses that could be debated til we're blue in the face, read the writings of the men who sat, walked, ate and slept beside the Apostles. We get an idea of how the faith was communicated verbally.
you worship father of all Lies,
and man early RCC fathers writtings,RCC idols,and Mary made from concrete

But got not any basic clue about true Jesus from Heaven ,His Word Bible,or plan of Jesus Father YHVH

also you got not clue about RCC Vatican phedofilia,homsexualism and financial greed wickedness of this fallen world?

you got not any idea as RCC fanatic,about faith and how this faith can be commuinicated verbaly

If you would have any idea of clue,you would only participate on the catholic thread,defend your faith,and spend 24 hours in the catholic church worship your imaginary non existent god
jesus(angel of light 2 Cor 11;13-15

Rev 17.18
prophecy of Inspired John clearly shows soon last fate of your Popes ages murders,phedofile,gays and double faced scumbags

www.iccs.org

BIBLE TRUE JEHOVA

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#39276 Feb 26, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice post Liam.
for you everything contradict Bible is nice and good?
you are inmature,confussed and to dumb to have any basic clue of man made doctriens by early RCC fathers this way contaminating true Jesus Teachings,and bringing by them satan spirit controling this word christianity about 2 000
Jesus in Rev 1;20 till Rev 2,3,4 chapter clear and plain say about 7 th before existinig churches failed in apostasy and worship of demons,

not Liam not BLL,not you,nor Yon
are any elected ones to dictate others what the truth is,who is above all HIGH HEAVENS NOT ABLE TO BE CONTROL BY MAN AND SPIRIT OF SATANIC WORLD?

And all of you have only your own right ,worthless opinions not able to avoid last destruction of EMPIRE FALSE RELIGION BABILON GREAT WORLD PAPACY CALLED CHRISTIANITY WITH SATANIC FRUITS

anyway
nobody cares anymore all of you,
who are left behind, cry,weep gnash plastic teeth,commit homsexualities behind altars and phedofilia with little church members,steal members money,and drink urine mix with whiskey(called by satanic scums like you christ blood)

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39277 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
What is he correct about except that Ignatius was a "church father"?
That we're no longer required to observe the [seventh-day] Sabbath precepts, as I thought I explained in my post.

As I've learned through my own extensive research and study of the Bible (and much material related) over the last 30-years, the Sabbath, or our appointed "day of rest," was fulfilled in Mashiyach until the final stage comes to completion in the coming Kingdom. As it's written, "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it (Heb 4:1)." As we can clearly see, this verse brings to light a future event by utilizing the future-tense "entering" and not the past-tense "entered." Then, at verse 11, the author continues by writing, "Let us (the believer) therefore labour to enter (not remain) into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (or, disobedience)." At verse 9, too, it says while using the entrance into Canaan as an example, "There remaineth therefore a rest (or, keeping of a Sabbath) to the people of God."

Just my two hay-pennies worth.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39278 Feb 26, 2014
BIBLE TRUE JEHOVA wrote:
you worship father of all Lies,
and man early RCC fathers writtings,RCC idols,and Mary made from concrete
But got not any basic clue about true Jesus from Heaven ,His Word Bible,or plan of Jesus Father YHVH
also you got not clue about RCC Vatican phedofilia,homsexualism and financial greed wickedness of this fallen world?
you got not any idea as RCC fanatic,about faith and how this faith can be commuinicated verbaly
If you would have any idea of clue,you would only participate on the catholic thread,defend your faith,and spend 24 hours in the catholic church worship your imaginary non existent god
jesus(angel of light 2 Cor 11;13-15
Rev 17.18
prophecy of Inspired John clearly shows soon last fate of your Popes ages murders,phedofile,gays and double faced scumbags
www.iccs.org
CORRECTION: It's impossible for Ignatius to have had any affiliation with the Roman Catholic denomination considering that Ignatius was born during the latter portion of the first century and died during the beginning of the second. The Roman Catholic denomination wasn't actually founded until the fourth century despite the claims, by the Roman Catholic denomination, that our anointed Savior, through Peter, established the Roman Catholic denomination. Ignatius, according to authentic, historical documentation, was a student of the apostle John.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39279 Feb 26, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>That we're no longer required to observe the [seventh-day] Sabbath precepts, as I thought I explained in my post.

As stated by you and the verse you quoted, none of the law became "destroyed," but certain and specific laws were fulfilled. And this is what causes so much confusion in the myriad of so-called "Christian" denominations around the globe.

Question: Are we expected to keep the seventh-day Sabbath?

Answer: Yes.
Sorry, I missed the fine print - We do but we don't.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
4) The Sabbaths. Each Sabbath represented something spiritual, but all Sabbaths, first and foremost, was a rest, or ceasing from work, given to the nation of Israel and it's proselytes. The first of the designated Sabbaths, of course, was the seventh-day Sabbath. It's written that the ultimate rest won't come until the Kingdom is established. But, until then, we have a present rest in our anointed Savior. In saying that, we must acknowledge our Sabbath, but it's no longer required to fulfill all the precepts of the Sabbath(s).
I should have added apostate church father Ignatius - and anti-Semitic others

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#39280 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
Sorry, I missed the fine print.
It happens.
yon wrote:
I should have added apostate church father Ignatius - and anti-Semitic others
Um...I'm getting confused and I'll tell you how...

There exists two men named "Ignatius" recognized in Christendom's history. The first is the student of the apostle John, called "Ignatius of Antioch." The second is called "Ignatius of Loyola." Are you referring to the first, or second, as apostate? I ask, because at times, the literature of the first are misunderstood, not understanding the terminology used. For instance and as we can determine by reading the texts of the new covenant, the term "Jew" doesn't necessarily apply to those descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Rather, the term "Jew," for the most part, was a reference to either, those in Judea, or specifically the Pharisees. That being said, if you are referring to Ignatius of Antioch, why? It's been quite some time since I've read anything from the so-called "Church 'fathers'."

I'm just wondering.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#39281 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
And by what authority did he change the Sabbath? We are not talking about practicing Judaism, or apostate church fathers, but following Scripture as did Messiah and the apostles. Anything else is heresy and is condemned.
Revelation 22:18
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."
Mark 7:7
"in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
You'd have to believe that the men who walked with the Apostles and heard the 'Bible' verbally, got it wrong and some dude in 19th century America, got it right!

Rev 22:18 This verse applies only to Revelation. John wasn't talking about any other book of the Bible. It's reckless to snatch this verse from Rev and apply it wherever you see fit. "Adding" to his book, also means ADDING your personal opinion to his letter.

Mark 7:7 This verse about sums up the YHWH Witness sect as well as the protestant denominations started by Martin Luther, John Calvin, Zwingli as well as the later fanatical sects by William Miller, Thomas M. Preble and countless other Sabbath Chrisitans

You see, once the Bible was first printed in October of 1252 AD, it became available for the first time in human history to people like you and I. No coincidence that the Protestant reformation began less a hundred yrs later.
Men with itching ears have unraveled the word of God as delivered by the Apostles. Peter, John and Paul taught Sunday for the Christian, not Saturday. This is evident by the writings of those who walked with them.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39282 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd have to believe that the men who walked with the Apostles and heard the 'Bible' verbally, got it wrong and some dude in 19th century America, got it right!
Rev 22:18 This verse applies only to Revelation. John wasn't talking about any other book of the Bible. It's reckless to snatch this verse from Rev and apply it wherever you see fit. "Adding" to his book, also means ADDING your personal opinion to his letter.
Mark 7:7 This verse about sums up the YHWH Witness sect as well as the protestant denominations started by Martin Luther, John Calvin, Zwingli as well as the later fanatical sects by William Miller, Thomas M. Preble and countless other Sabbath Chrisitans
You see, once the Bible was first printed in October of 1252 AD, it became available for the first time in human history to people like you and I. No coincidence that the Protestant reformation began less a hundred yrs later.
Men with itching ears have unraveled the word of God as delivered by the Apostles. Peter, John and Paul taught Sunday for the Christian, not Saturday. This is evident by the writings of those who walked with them.

The reformation began over 250 years later. Then the Bible, sadly, became deitized.

BIBLE TRUE JEHOVA

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#39283 Feb 26, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>CORRECTION: It's impossible for Ignatius to have had any affiliation with the Roman Catholic denomination considering that Ignatius was born during the latter portion of the first century and died during the beginning of the second. The Roman Catholic denomination wasn't actually founded until the fourth century despite the claims, by the Roman Catholic denomination, that our anointed Savior, through Peter, established the Roman Catholic denomination. Ignatius, according to authentic, historical documentation, was a student of the apostle John.
I never said that Ignathius had have affiliation with RCC
I said that earthly fathers of churches after death of last apostle John,
made own doctrines,fallen apart and create apostasy among 7 first churches leading them to organise first satan pagan spirit influence and legalise 300 years later,most blasphemous wicked satanic christianity pseudo jesus christ (angel of light who brought past 2000 years complete murderous spiritual crimes,depravation and moral failure around the globe.2 Cor 11;13-15)

and Ignathius or others like Clemens of Rom bear direct responsibility for such eter man of lawlesness?
there is not ancient or modern trace if Ighnatius was student of last apostle,
but for sure his teachings influence seed of apostasy in first 7 churches legalised as one RCC 325 AD

thanks for your respond,
only I exclude you as my spiritual corrector and advisor of facts described in Bible Revelation of Jeremiah
I don't accept your man made facts, and wanderings among man made doctrines and internet links worth nothing
also?please?if you read my posts,
JUST DON'T USE YOUR SELF APPOINTED WORDS 'CORRECT" OR NOT?

Always look if your beliefs are 100% comply with infalaible Gods Word Bible

have good night

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