Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39243 Feb 23, 2014
IS JESUS a PAGAN NAME?
by Yahkov Hartley

"In a recent Messianic magazine there appeared an article that purported to address the question,"Is the name "Jesus" pagan?" The article was clearly a defense of the use of the name "Jesus", in spite of that author's admission that this is not the "original" name (birth name) given to the Messiah (by his Jewish mother, Miryam). The article leaves the reader with the notion that Jesus is just as valid, if not more valid, than Y'shua1when referring to the Messiah. And it arrives at this deduction by the most careless etymology and stunted logic, ignoring the weightier matters of the issue. The "issue" raised in this article is a prize-winning deception, designed to decoy the unwary from the real issue of the word "Jesus".

Early in the article, the author demonstrated the difficulty of transliterating from Hebrew to Greek and the ease of transliterating from Hebrew to English. A detailed letter-by-letter (from the Hebrew aleph-bet to the Greek alphabet) "transliteration" of the name, Yeshua to the Greek name, Iesous was brought forth as evidence. Because there are no equivalent sounds of many of the letters, this so called "transliteration" becomes in reality a translation. There is so little assonance between "Yeshua" and "Eeaysooce" that calling this a transliteration is an offense to even the most debased scholarship. There is no way to transliterate this name between these two languages! The best that can be done is to translate, which is what was done in the Septuagint by its Hebrew translators.

The name Septuagint, is late-Latin (the ecclesiastical tongue of the Roman Corporate Church) from septem + ginta which hints at the 70 (approximately) translators who produced the Greek version of the Tanakh (the "Old" Testament). A study of the etymology of the word "Jesus", in even as mundane a source as the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reveals that this name does not come directly from the Greek "Iesous", but derives from the early-Latin "Iesu", the "I" pronounced initially as a "Y" producing Yay-soo. The "I" in the middle-ages was differentiated into the "I" and the "J" in our Latin alphabet used for the English language. Thus, in late-Latin, the Iesou (Yaysoo) became Jesu (Jaysoo) which became Jesus in the English tongue. This relationship in the etymology is omitted by the author in his "apologetics."

Regardless, the word Jesus has no direct ancestry from the Greek Iesous, as is implied by the author, but at best, it derives from the late-Latin Jesu , a fact completely missing in the cited article. However, all of this etymology, even with the missing link provided above, is a decoy to distract our attention from the real problem with this word "Jesus."

We have never used the argument that Jesus is somehow a compound of Gee-Zeus (Zeus being the chief "god" of the Greek Pantheon) although there is certainly an extreme degree of assonance (which is the core of the art of transliteration) with the "Jesus" word. We have never pursued that possibility to any extent, since it is totally irrelevant. The only relevant issue is: What was/is the Messiah's name given him by his mother, Miryam, in accordance with the angelic messenger's revelation to her?

Since the author of the subject article didn't have any problems with the name Yeshua being the Messiah's "original" name, why not look firstly at what is NOT the issue here? The issue is NOT, " whether the word Jesus is pagan!" The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Yeshua into Greek! The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Greek Iesous into Latin! The issue is NOT even how to "transliterate" the Latin Jesu into English! The issue IS how to transliterate the real name, Yeshua, from the Hebrew, into English. We certainly don't need to go through Greek into Latin and then from Latin into English. Why would anyone want to take such a circuitous route, unless......."

MORE - http://yahushua.net/pagan_name.htm

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39244 Feb 23, 2014
yon wrote:
(the following is way over Student's remedial NWT head)
DOES BAAL GAD equal
THE LORD GOD OF CHRISTIANITY?
By Donald Adkins
"To many Christians, the above question would be blasphemous to even contemplate! They would never even consider the thought, much less study like the noble Bereans, of whom it is written in the Scriptures: "Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica who received the word with great eagerness, and searched the Scriptures daily, if these words were so." (Acts 17:11)
Scripture says that the old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, has deceived the whole world: "And the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who leads all the world astray." (Rev. 12:9) Do you realize just how deep that deception is? This article will reveal some of the depths of that deception, to those who are able to receive it.
Does it not behoove us, therefore, to study the Scriptures in order to see if we too have been led astray? More so in light of the following Scripture which explicitly tells us that salvation comes in only one exclusive name: "And there is no deliverance in anyone else, for there is no other name under the heaven given among men by which we need to be saved." (Acts 4:12)
Is it not evident then, according to the above quoted verse, that if Satan wants to keep us from being saved or delivered, all he has to do is to deceive us into calling on another name rather than the one exclusive name that has been given for that very purpose by our Creator?
I am always shocked and amazed at the ignorance of the Creator's professed people who cannot understand the simple fact that one is one and never two, three, four, five, etc… Now surely, if there is only one name given, how can these professed believers say that it doesn’t matter what name they call on? Are they not deceived by that old serpent, Satan the Devil, if they are calling on any other name other than that one exclusive name that was given by our Creator Himself? Surely you can see that the only answer to our questions is—yes, they have most definitely been deceived!...."
http://yahushua.net/baalgad.htm
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal
For other uses, see Baal (disambiguation).
Ba'al with raised arm, 14th-12th century BC, found at Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit), Louvre
Baal, also rendered Baʿal (Biblical Hebrew בַ&#14 68;עַ& #1500;, pronounced [ˈbaʕal]), is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord"[1] that is used for various gods who were patrons of cities in the Levant and Asia Minor, cognate to Akkadian Bēlu. A Baalist or Baalite means a worshipper of Baal.
"Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials. In some texts it is used for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name,..."

Pretty good. I have read similar and even longer and more detailed works on the same and related subjects.

One talked about were all the pseudonyms for God (including God = Gaad) come from and what they originally meant. It exposed "Lord" as a title of the Pagan Gaad as well.

Some have talked about the jehovah error and others stuck with OT errors and deceptions.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39245 Feb 23, 2014
yon wrote:
IS JESUS a PAGAN NAME?
by Yahkov Hartley"In a recent Messianic magazine there appeared an article that purported to address the question,"Is the name "Jesus" pagan?" The article was clearly a defense of the use of the name "Jesus", in spite of that author's admission that this is not the "original" name (birth name) given to the Messiah (by his Jewish mother, Miryam). The article leaves the reader with the notion that Jesus is just as valid, if not more valid, than Y'shua1when referring to the Messiah. And it arrives at this deduction by the most careless etymology and stunted logic, ignoring the weightier matters of the issue. The "issue" raised in this article is a prize-winning deception, designed to decoy the unwary from the real issue of the word "Jesus". Early in the article, the author demonstrated the difficulty of transliterating from Hebrew to Greek and the ease of transliterating from Hebrew to English. A detailed letter-by-letter (from the Hebrew aleph-bet to the Greek alphabet) "transliteration" of the name, Yeshua to the Greek name, Iesous was brought forth as evidence. Because there are no equivalent sounds of many of the letters, this so called "transliteration" becomes in reality a translation. There is so little assonance between "Yeshua" and "Eeaysooce" that calling this a transliteration is an offense to even the most debased scholarship. There is no way to transliterate this name between these two languages! The best that can be done is to translate, which is what was done in the Septuagint by its Hebrew translators.
The name Septuagint, is late-Latin (the ecclesiastical tongue of the Roman Corporate Church) from septem + ginta which hints at the 70 (approximately) translators who produced the Greek version of the Tanakh (the "Old" Testament). A study of the etymology of the word "Jesus", in even as mundane a source as the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reveals that this name does not come directly from the Greek "Iesous", but derives from the early-Latin "Iesu", the "I" pronounced initially as a "Y" producing Yay-soo. The "I" in the middle-ages was differentiated into the "I" and the "J" in our Latin alphabet used for the English language. Thus, in late-Latin, the Iesou (Yaysoo) became Jesu (Jaysoo) which became Jesus in the English tongue. This relationship in the etymology is omitted by the author in his "apologetics."Regard less, the word Jesus has no direct ancestry from the Greek Iesous, as is implied by the author, but at best, it derives from the late-Latin Jesu , a fact completely missing in the cited article. However, all of this etymology, even with the missing link provided above, is a decoy to distract our attention from the real problem with this word "Jesus."
We have never used the argument that Jesus is somehow a compound of Gee-Zeus (Zeus being the chief "god" of the Greek Pantheon) although there is certainly an extreme degree of assonance (which is the core of the art of transliteration) with the "Jesus" word. We have never pursued that possibility to any extent, since it is totally irrelevant. The only relevant issue is: What was/is the Messiah's name given him by his mother, Miryam, in accordance with the angelic messenger's revelation to her?Since the author of the subject article didn't have an.. Yeshua being the Messiah's "original" name, why not look firstly at what is NOT the issue here? The issue is NOT, " whether the word Jesus is pagan!" The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Yeshua into Greek! The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Greek Iesous into Latin! The issue is NOT even how to "transliterate" the Latin Jesu into English! The issue IS how to transliterate the real name, Yeshua, from the Hebrew, into English. We certainly don't need to go through Greek into Latin and then from Latin into English. Why would anyone want to take such a circuitous route, unless......."
MORE - http://yahushua.net/pagan_name.htm

Also good scholarship.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39247 Feb 24, 2014
Jude 1:6
'And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—"
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39248 Feb 24, 2014
At least the demon is gone for the time being.
awesome dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#39249 Feb 24, 2014
yon wrote:
At least the demon is gone for the time being.
You enjoy demon table,your bzdzina(fart) satan son brother Dogen?
there is not other place for you,like place of darkness and dirty filthy spiritual table with satan sermons,man links lies,and sects vomits,
soon they will makes you main general of those Lies and appoint yo to be their Pope

so? my ficken maestro,poor left behind lost miserable wrecked immoral poor spiritualy creature?

time is pass away,left for you only is to gnash plastic teeth,and weep with huge tears

or write letter to elders JW,as for forgiveness,kiss their a 12 times and be back like fallen hero among elders in KH
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39250 Feb 24, 2014
Matt 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39251 Feb 25, 2014
awesome dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
You enjoy demon table,your bzdzina(fart) satan son brother Dogen?
there is not other place for you,like place of darkness and dirty filthy spiritual table with satan sermons,man links lies,and sects vomits,
soon they will makes you main general of those Lies and appoint yo to be their Pope
so? my ficken maestro,poor left behind lost miserable wrecked immoral poor spiritualy creature?
time is pass away,left for you only is to gnash plastic teeth,and weep with huge tears
or write letter to elders JW,as for forgiveness,kiss their a 12 times and be back like fallen hero among elders in KH

Sounds like a demon to me.

Tell your doctor I recommend Geodon, 40 mg BID.
Student

Mexico

#39252 Feb 25, 2014
Daily Text
Monday, February 24

A mere saffron of the coastal plain I am, a lily of the low plains.—Song of Sol. 2:1.

To these words of the Shulammite, the shepherd replied:“Like a lily among thorny weeds, so is my girl companion among the daughters”!(Song of Sol. 2:2) Yes, they truly loved each other. And because they primarily loved God, their marital bond would be strong indeed. In fact, the Shulammite said to her beloved shepherd:“Place me as a seal upon your heart, as a seal up...on your arm; because love is as strong as death is, insistence on exclusive devotion is as unyielding as Sheol is. Its blazings are the blazings of a fire, the flame of Jah [for it is from him]. Many waters themselves are not able to extinguish love, nor can rivers themselves wash it away. If a man would give all the valuable things of his house for love, persons would positively despise them.”(Song of Sol. 8:6, 7) When weighing wedlock, why should a servant of Jehovah settle for anything less?(Examining the Scriptures Daily 2014)

Daily Text
Tuesday, February 25

I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed.—Gen. 3:15.

Soon after the rebellion in Eden, Jehovah made a promise that a “woman” would produce a “seed.” That seed would eventually bruise the serpent, Satan, in the head. Jehovah later revealed that the seed would come through Abraham, belong to the nation of Israel, be a Judean, and be a descendant of King David.(Gen. 22:15-18; 49:10; Ps. 89:3, 4; Luke 1:30-33) The principal part of that seed proved to be Christ Jesus.(Gal. 3:16) The secondary part of the seed is made up of the spirit-anointed members of the Christian congregation.(Gal. 3:26-29) Jesus and these anointed ones unite to form God’s Kingdom, the instrument with which God will crush Satan.(luke 12:32; Rom. 16:20) That first prophecy given in Eden also stated that Satan would produce a “seed.” His seed would express enmity, or hatred, for the seed of the woman.(Examining the Scriptures Daily 2014)
awesome dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#39253 Feb 25, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like a demon to me.
Tell your doctor I recommend Geodon, 40 mg BID.
Because you posessed by demons,
and every sounds outside sounds like demons sounds for you

you are sick brain retarded client of dr Shrink,
your recomendations can take you straight to padded room for cursing own dr Shrink,you poor satan son retard mentaly scumbag
I am your doctor,and dr Shrink care danger lunatics like you
awesome dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#39254 Feb 25, 2014
yon wrote:
Matt 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
your posts and Dogen hates clearly and plain shows what kind of fruits you are?

both of you show clear and plain fruits of hates and abuse Gods Law to mock God and His people who got His Name

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39255 Feb 25, 2014
awesome dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
your posts and Dogen hates clearly and plain shows what kind of fruits you are?
both of you show clear and plain fruits of hates and abuse Gods Law to mock God and His people who got His Name

I don't mock anyone who is one of Yahweh's people.

I mock morons who don't acknowledge the one God Yahweh.

Ignorant people like the JWs.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39256 Feb 25, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like a demon to me.
Tell your doctor I recommend Geodon, 40 mg BID.
It's incoherent and unintelligible psychobabble.(Also Thorazine too.)
Liam

Minneapolis, MN

#39260 Feb 25, 2014
yon wrote:
For example - did Paul cease Sabbath observance?
Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Paul did not observe the Sabbath after he was converted. He went to the synagogues on the Sabbath, because that's where he'd find the Jews he was attempting to convert.

The reason the JW's is a false religion started by men:

God doesn't have a name. He told Moses it was
"I am". Early Hebrew writers of scripture tried to put that into a 'name'. This came out as "YHWH".. YHWH means somethin like: "He who is" or "I am".
(Early Hebrew had no vowels.) Greek, however, did have vowels, and the translation was Yahweh. later, Jews did not feel comfortable putting any name on God, so they began translating scripture-substituting "Yahweh" with "Adonai", which means simply, "Lord."

Ironically, Catholic translators came up with the name for YHWH as "Jehovah" in the 13th century by combining the consonants of yahweh with "Adonai". The resulting sound was "Yahowah" and when written in Latin, was Jehovah, without pronouncing the J.

You see, immediately the Jehovah's Witness religion began with a lie. They simple made the same mistake as countless others by picking up the sacred scriptures and interpreting it themselves using the language and culture of their own time period.
The Bible isn't one book, its a collection of books. It wasn't circulated until it was printed by the Catholic Church in October of 1254 AD. Eventually it came available to the laity. Hence, people began reading it without a proper understanding. The Bible is 'Gods word' and that's that. So when the JW saw the KJV had the word "Jehovah" they immediately formed their man-made religion.

www.catholic.com/quickquestions
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39261 Feb 26, 2014
Thank you for that input, but you provide no Scripture to validate your claim that Paul (or any other 1st century messianic follower) had stopped keeping Yahweh's Law - especially the Sabbath.

Matt 5:18 "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great."
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39262 Feb 26, 2014
Do you say that Paul was acting contrary to Messiah?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39263 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul did not observe the Sabbath after he was converted. He went to the synagogues on the Sabbath, because that's where he'd find the Jews he was attempting to convert.
The reason the JW's is a false religion started by men:
God doesn't have a name. He told Moses it was
"I am". Early Hebrew writers of scripture tried to put that into a 'name'. This came out as "YHWH".. YHWH means somethin like: "He who is" or "I am".
(Early Hebrew had no vowels.) Greek, however, did have vowels, and the translation was Yahweh. later, Jews did not feel comfortable putting any name on God, so they began translating scripture-substituting "Yahweh" with "Adonai", which means simply, "Lord."
Ironically, Catholic translators came up with the name for YHWH as "Jehovah" in the 13th century by combining the consonants of yahweh with "Adonai". The resulting sound was "Yahowah" and when written in Latin, was Jehovah, without pronouncing the J.
You see, immediately the Jehovah's Witness religion began with a lie. They simple made the same mistake as countless others by picking up the sacred scriptures and interpreting it themselves using the language and culture of their own time period.
The Bible isn't one book, its a collection of books. It wasn't circulated until it was printed by the Catholic Church in October of 1254 AD. Eventually it came available to the laity. Hence, people began reading it without a proper understanding. The Bible is 'Gods word' and that's that. So when the JW saw the KJV had the word "Jehovah" they immediately formed their man-made religion.
www.catholic.com/quickquestions

Nice post Liam.
yon

Miami Beach, FL

#39264 Feb 26, 2014
Liam wrote:
Ironically, Catholic translators came up with the name for YHWH as "Jehovah" in the 13th century by combining the consonants of yahweh with "Adonai". The resulting sound was "Yahowah" and when written in Latin, was Jehovah, without pronouncing the J.
You see, immediately the Jehovah's Witness religion began with a lie.
As Joseph Rotherham pointed out in the forward to his translation - "Trying to spell the name of God by plugging the vowels of Adonai into YHWH would be like trying to spell Germany with the vowels of Portugal. "

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#39265 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
As Joseph Rotherham pointed out in the forward to his translation - "Trying to spell the name of God by plugging the vowels of Adonai into YHWH would be like trying to spell Germany with the vowels of Portugal. "

Yes, that is obviously nonsensical and indicates the monk who did the translation did not know what he was doing and essentially just made up a new name.
Liam

Saint Paul, MN

#39266 Feb 26, 2014
yon wrote:
Thank you for that input, but you provide no Scripture to validate your claim that Paul (or any other 1st century messianic follower) had stopped keeping Yahweh's Law - especially the Sabbath.
Matt 5:18 "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great."
Ignatius of Antioch was ordained a Bishop by Peter and was a direct Disciple of John the Apostle. Prior to his martyrdom, he wrote a series of letters that are still preserved to this day.
One addresses the Sabbath for Christians:

"for even unto this day, if we live after the manner of Judaism, we avow that we have not received grace... If then those who have walked in ancient practices attained unto them newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lords day, Sunday, in which OUR lives ALSO rose through him and through his death, which some men deny.... How shall we live apart from him? It is monsterous to talk of Jesus Christ and still practice Judaism. For Christianity didn't believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity"
Letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius of Antioch.

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

Rather than isolate the Bible into thousands of verses that could be debated til we're blue in the face, read the writings of the men who sat, walked, ate and slept beside the Apostles. We get an idea of how the faith was communicated verbally.

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