Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36227 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:

What is wrong with the jebhoba witness cult.

1. 1 Timothy 2:5

The Watchtower cult REJECTS this (and really every other) scripture and accepts the (Satanic) Watchtower Cult in the place of Jesus as the mediator. Only the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have direct access to the truth. Only they can ultimately interpret scripture correctly.
Really, what was the apostle Paul really saying in this verse. Paul was writing according to the facts of the first century of Christianity, during which the new covenant had been put into operation. Into it “men” of all nationalities, Jews, Samaritans, uncircumcised Gentiles, had already been brought after being made a part of spiritual Israel.

Christ Jesus was the mediator of that new covenant.

Paul’s letter to Timothy regarding this was a case of one ‘minister of the new covenant’ writing to another ‘minister of the new covenant.’ That new covenant between “our Savior, God,” and spiritual Israel continues as long as there are spiritual Israelites still in the flesh as “men” here on earth.

So the covenant is in force today. Jesus’“corresponding ransom for all” lays the basis for men and women of all sorts to become spiritual Israelites and be brought into the new covenant of which Christ Jesus is the “one mediator.”

The Law covenant arrangement with its animal sacrifices, as a pictorial legal basis, pointed toward a superior basis for approach to God.(Heb 9:8-10; 10:1)

This came by means of the new covenant through which all were to ‘know Jehovah, from the least one even to the greatest one.’(Jer 31:31-34; Heb 7:19; 8:10-13)

As the sole Mediator of that new covenant, Christ Jesus became “the way.” He said,“No one comes to the Father except through me.”(Joh 14:6, 13, 14)

The barrier separating the Jews from the uncircumcised Gentile nations outside God’s national covenant with Israel was removed by means of Christ’s death, so that “through him we, both peoples, have the approach to the Father by one spirit.”(Eph 2:11-19; Ac 10:35)

Faith in God as “the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him” and in the ransom is the prerequisite for peaceful approach and a kindly reception by God through Jesus Christ.(Heb 11:6; 1Pe 3:18)

Those approaching through Christ Jesus as their High Priest and Intercessor know that “he is always alive to plead for them”(Heb 7:25), and they can confidently “approach with freeness of speech to the throne of undeserved kindness.”(Heb 4:14-16; Eph 3:12) They do not approach in fear of condemnation.(Ro 8:33, 34) Yet they retain the godly fear and awe that such approach to God,“the Judge of all,” merits.—Heb 12:18-24,
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36228 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:

2. John 14:16-17 John 14:6 and 1 John 2:27

It a Watchtower cult member has the spirit with him and understands scripture correctly and follows that understanding and refuses to recant it he/she will be DISFELLOWSHIPPED! Following the the spirit Yahweh sent has been the grounds for Disfellowshipping (fancy word for excommunication) from the Jehovah witness cult. In other words, if you follow spirit of truth AND the scripture you WILL be disfellowshipped. No exceptions.
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them.

Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin.

Consider a Scriptural example of disfellowshipping. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.”(1 Corinthians 5:1-5)

When disfellowshipped and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world.(1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.

Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer.

Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life.(2 Corinthians 2:8-11)

If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.

What is accomplished by disfellowshipping?

It keeps Jehovah’s holy name clear of reproach and protects the fine reputation of his people.(1 Peter 1:14-16)

Removing an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation upholds God’s standards and preserves the congregation’s spiritual cleanness. It may also bring the unrepentant one to his senses.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36229 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:

3. John 6:53

The JWs reject this truth outright. They OPENLY reject taking the blood and body of Jesus Christ in open defilement of Jesus' own wish.
Jesus was not talking about the world of mankind as the ones to drink his blood as well as eating his flesh, figuratively, during his millennial reign. He was talking about believers whom he would bring into the new covenant.(Jer. 31:31-34; Rev. 20:4-6)

These would become spiritual Israelites. That is why, when Jesus inaugurated the “Lord’s evening meal,” he said to his Israelite apostles:“This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.”(Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:20, 25)

Or, according to Matthew 26:27:“Drink out of it, all of you; for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.” The 11 faithful apostles who accepted the unleavened bread and the cup of wine at Jesus’ hands that Passover night of 33 C.E. were taken into the new covenant on the day of Pentecost, the fifty-second day from the Passover.

A remnant of spiritual Israelites, who are members of the spiritual “body” of Christ, are still on earth.

In recent years they have invited others to attend the annual Memorial celebration as witnesses or observers. These dedicated sheeplike persons were foreshadowed by Jonadab the friend of King Jehu of Israel.(2 Ki. 10:15-23; Jer. 35:1-16)

Ever since the year 1935 C.E. Jesus Christ the Fine Shepherd has brought a “great crowd” of such modern “Jonadabs” or “other sheep” into association with the spirit-begotten remnant of his spiritual “body.” But first in the Watchtower issue of February 15, 1938, we read this invitation:
“... After 6 p.m. on April 15 let each company of the anointed assemble and celebrate the Memorial, their companions the Jonadabs also being present. Let the emblems be unleavened bread and real red wine.”—Page 50, under “Memorial.”
Those “other sheep,” who are not of the same “fold” as the “little flock,” attended the Memorial as observers, not as partakers.—John 10:16; Luke 12:32.

Jesus did not specifically state how often it was to be done. He simply said:“Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”(Luke 22:19)

Paul said:“For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.”(1 Cor. 11:26)

“As often” need not mean many times a year; it can mean annually over a period of many years.

If you commemorate an important event, such as a wedding anniversary, or if a nation commemorates an important event in its history, how often is it done?

Once a year on the anniversary date. This would also be consistent with the fact that the Lord’s Evening Meal was instituted on the date of the Jewish Passover, a yearly celebration that no longer had to be kept by Jews who had become Christians.

Jehovah’s Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36230 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:

4. The JW ADMIT in their OWN BIBLE and in the WATCHTOWER that 'Yahweh' is more correct than Jehovah, YET REFUSE to clean up their act and CONTINUE to insist that cult members use the term jehovah.(Note: Romans 10:2,3)
What issue of the BIBLE or WATCHTOWER admit that Yahweh is the most correct name of God?

Watchtower 2008 9/1 Why Use God’s Name if Its Pronunciation Is Uncertain?

Some scholars, though, recommend the pronunciation “Yahweh.”

Is that closer to the original pronunciation?

No one can be certain. Actually, other scholars have cited reasons for not using this pronunciation.

Of course, Bible names, when spoken in a modern-day language, probably sound nothing like the original Hebrew, and hardly anyone objects. This is because these names have become part of our language and they are easily recognized. So it is with the name Jehovah.

The first-century Christians were called a people for God’s name. They preached about the name to others and encouraged them to call upon it.(Acts 2:21; 15:14; Romans 10:13-15)

Clearly, it is important to God that we use his name in whatever language we speak, appreciate its significance, and live in harmony with what it stands for.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36231 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:

5. The WATCHTOWER DEMANDS 100% adherence to their doctrine. See Jude 22.
You WILL be excommunicated, shunned and disfellowshipped if you fail to comply.

Read more at http://www.jwstruggle.com/2010/10/top-ten-thi ...
Early Christianity was not a sect. Nor was it meant to break up into separate sects. In praying to his Father, Christ asked that his disciples might “all be one.”(John 17:21) His disciples were to ‘have love among themselves.’(John 13:35) This excluded any divisive forming of sects.

Under divine inspiration Paul listed “divisions” and “sects” among “the works of the flesh.”

He wrote:“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects ... Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.”—Galatians 5:19-21.

"Dogen" do YOU want these kind of people in YOUR congregation?

Since those who cause “divisions” and “sects”“will not inherit God’s kingdom,” they cannot be tolerated within the true Christian congregation.

Therefore, Paul wrote to Titus:“Shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.”—Titus 3:9-11.

In his letter, Jude speaks of “some that have doubts.”(Jude 22) But neither Peter nor Jude says that a Christian can remain a ridiculer or a doubter.

Peter tells us to ‘be on our guard’ against “unsteady” ones who ‘twist the Scriptures.’(2 Peter 3:16, 17)

And Jude states that the doubters are in danger and need to be ‘snatched out of the fire.’(Jude 23)

Those who have been misled from the truth need to be helped “with mildness,” in the hope that “they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil.”—2 Timothy 2:23-26. W83 9/15 “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism’, p18
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36232 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Try reading the introduction to your own bible.
Are you stupid or a liar?
I suspect a lot of both.
Really,..... a DICTIONARY!!!! LOL.
REALLY, NAME CALLING AGAIN

This is what the introduction of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures has to say:

“THIS IS WHAT THE SOVEREIGN LORD JEHOVAH {4 ORIGINAL LETTERS, YHWH] HAS SAID

THERE IS NO [[[YEHWAH]]] IN OUR BIBLE

This is from the internet at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/JHWH

JHVH
YHVH.
Also, JHWH.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
YHVH
a transliteration of the Tetragrammaton.
Also, YHWH, JHVH, JHWH.

It seems that you need to get and read our translation of the Holy Scriptures
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36233 Sep 3, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
YHWH, in fact, is pronounced Yah-weh.
There is no 'J' in Hebrew.
Yah•weh
&#712;y&#593;w&#60 3;Show Spelled [yah-we] Show IPA
noun
a name of God, transliterated by scholars from the Tetragrammaton and commonly rendered jehovah.
Also, Yah•we, Yah•veh, Yah•ve &#712;y&#593;v&#60 3;Show Spelled [yah-ve] Show IPA , Jahveh, Jahve, Jahweh, Jahwe.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary,© Random House, Inc. 2013.

NOTICE THAT YAHWEH WAS TRANSLITERATED BY SCHOLARS? NOT ORIGNIALLY GOD NAME IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES.

You’re right there was no J in the original Hebrew WRITINGS.

Matthew was a Jew, otherwise known as Levi, who became an apostle of Jesus Christ and the writer of the Gospel bearing his name.

The Bible translator Jerome of the fourth century and Origen of the third century C.E. say that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. It was directed primarily to Jews.

So do we call Jesus in his Hebrew name [Yeshua or Yehohshua]?
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36238 Sep 4, 2013
Daily Text


Wednesday, September 4

There will also be false teachers among you.—2 Pet. 2:1.

How do false teachers operate? Their methods reveal a cunning spirit. Apostates “quietly bring in” corruptive ideas. Like smugglers, they operate in a clandestine manner, subtly introducing apostate views. And just as a clever forger tries to pass phony documents, so apostates use “counterfeit words,” or false arguments, trying to pass their fabricated views as if they were true. They spread “deceptive teachings,”“twisting ... the Scriptures” to fit their own ideas.(2 Pet. 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Clearly, apostates do not have our best interests at heart. Following them would only divert us from the road that leads to eternal life. How can we protect ourselves? The Bible’s counsel regarding how to deal with them is clear.(Rom. 16:17; 2 John 9-11)“Avoid them,” says God’s Word. Other translations render that phrase “turn away from them,”“keep away from them,” and “stay away from them!”(Examining the Scriptures Daily 2013)
doug

Tsumeb, Namibia

#36242 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Early Christianity was not a sect. Nor was it meant to break up into separate sects. In praying to his Father, Christ asked that his disciples might “all be one.”(John 17:21) His disciples were to ‘have love among themselves.’(John 13:35) This excluded any divisive forming of sects.
Under divine inspiration Paul listed “divisions” and “sects” among “the works of the flesh.”
He wrote:“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects ... Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.”—Galatians 5:19-21.
"Dogen" do YOU want these kind of people in YOUR congregation?
Since those who cause “divisions” and “sects”“will not inherit God’s kingdom,” they cannot be tolerated within the true Christian congregation.
Therefore, Paul wrote to Titus:“Shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.”—Titus 3:9-11.
In his letter, Jude speaks of “some that have doubts.”(Jude 22) But neither Peter nor Jude says that a Christian can remain a ridiculer or a doubter.
Peter tells us to ‘be on our guard’ against “unsteady” ones who ‘twist the Scriptures.’(2 Peter 3:16, 17)
And Jude states that the doubters are in danger and need to be ‘snatched out of the fire.’(Jude 23)
Those who have been misled from the truth need to be helped “with mildness,” in the hope that “they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil.”—2 Timothy 2:23-26. W83 9/15 “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism’, p18
the name of God was left out because the Jews felt ashamed to pronounce his name and it was replaced with Lord, for there are many Gods but to me there is only one true God Jehovah

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#36245 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, what was the apostle Paul really saying in this verse. Paul was writing according to the facts of the first century of Christianity, during which the new covenant had been put into .....

Why did you write all of this? It does not address the the issue of 1 Timothy 2:5 and the JW violation of it.

Do you think cutting and pasting stuff that is not relevant to the issue is in any way impressive?

Do you assume people are so dumb they won't see through it?

Okay, I will give you the second one. The whole JW cult is predicated on people being so dumb they don't see through it!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#36246 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them.
Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin.

As I have demonstrated, this is a gross lie. Disfellowship for the Watchtower cult involves cutting off dissent even when it is reasonable and not biblically clear.

The Watchtower cult uses Disfellowship as a weapon to keep the partially sighted away from the blind.

It does not matter if disfellowship (which is not mentioned in the bible and misunderstood by JW) is reasonably biblical. What matters is the gross misuse by the watchtower cult to manipulate and control.

It keeps Jehovah’s holy name clear of reproach and protects the fine reputation of his people.(1 Peter 1:14-16)

Since "Jehovah" is not mentioned in 1 Pet, nor in any other accurate translation of the NT, I cannot take that seriously.

Second, JWs have a very poor reputation among real Christians. They have a history of lying, distorting the bible, protecting child molesters, siding with Hitler, defaming other Churches, rejecting and rewriting scripture. They are not saved.

The Watchtowerites (to separate the flock from the leadership wolves) simply do not know what their leaders are really doing and are not aware of the real motives of the cult.
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Removing an unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation upholds God’s standards and preserves the congregation’s spiritual cleanness. It may also bring the unrepentant one to his senses.

The Watchtower is not interested in actual spiritual cleanness. It is only concerned about what it has to deal with.

Innocent girl gets molested multiple times and is disfellowshipped for reporting to the legal authorities.

Molesters (All JWs) remain in good standing and in leadership positions within the cult.

Enough said.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#36249 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Early Christianity was not a sect. Nor was it meant to break up into separate sects. In praying to his Father, Christ asked that his disciples might “all be one.”(John 17:21) His disciples were to ‘have love among themselves.’(John 13:35) This excluded any divisive forming of sects.
Under divine inspiration Paul listed “divisions” and “sects” among “the works of the flesh.”
He wrote:“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects ... Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.”—Galatians 5:19-21.
"Dogen" do YOU want these kind of people in YOUR congregation?
Since those who cause “divisions” and “sects”“will not inherit God’s kingdom,” they cannot be tolerated within the true Christian congregation.
Therefore, Paul wrote to Titus:“Shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.”—Titus 3:9-11.
In his letter, Jude speaks of “some that have doubts.”(Jude 22) But neither Peter nor Jude says that a Christian can remain a ridiculer or a doubter.
Peter tells us to ‘be on our guard’ against “unsteady” ones who ‘twist the Scriptures.’(2 Peter 3:16, 17)
And Jude states that the doubters are in danger and need to be ‘snatched out of the fire.’(Jude 23)
Those who have been misled from the truth need to be helped “with mildness,” in the hope that “they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil.”—2 Timothy 2:23-26. W83 9/15 “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism’, p18

You are just regurgitating Watchtower rhetoric. Maybe you are not aware of what is really going on in your cult and you just believe whatever you are told by the cult. I understand that, but you do not get a free pass for ignoring the issues and keeping your eyes closed whenever these issues are shown to you.

The lengthy lists of sins of the Watchtower cult include thousands of examples things that are not just hearsay against the cult. These include court documents, public statements, transcripts of official documents, letters and testimony given under oath. If you want to pretend that the things I have told you about are not real or are exaggerations you are responsible for own ignorance.

Question for you: how does one leave the Watchtower cult without being disfellowshipped?

Answer: It cannot be done.

You know I am right.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#36251 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
REALLY, NAME CALLING AGAIN
This is what the introduction of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures has to say:
“THIS IS WHAT THE SOVEREIGN LORD JEHOVAH {4 ORIGINAL LETTERS, YHWH] HAS SAID
THERE IS NO [[[YEHWAH]]] IN OUR BIBLE
This is from the internet at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/JHWH
JHVH
YHVH.
Also, JHWH.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
YHVH
a transliteration of the Tetragrammaton.
Also, YHWH, JHVH, JHWH.
Why would you give a reference to an already incorrect transliteration????? There is no 'J' in Hebrew.

I am not stuttering when I tell you that, am I?

The most accurate transliteration is YHWH.

Note: You left out the Latinized IHWH and IHVH.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> It seems that you need to get and read our translation of the Holy Scriptures

I have, and I have compared them to REAL translations. Your "translation" is crap. Nothing more than propaganda.

Your "Translation" was done by a small group of men NONE of whom has functional knowledge of EITHER Classic Hebrew or Greek.


Nathan H. Knorr,- No training in biblical languages.
George D. Gangas,- No training in biblical languages.
Albert D. Schroeder,- No training in biblical languages.
Milton G. Henschel,- No training in biblical languages.
Karl Klein- No training in biblical languages.
And finally the leader of this illiterate group:
Frederick W. Franz,- 21 semester hours of classical Greek (started a 2 hour class in Biblical Greek - dropped out). Some self study in Hebrew. "In a court of law in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1954, Mr. Franz failed a simple test on his Hebrew language skills."
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religi...

They also used the old Westcott And Hort literal (Interlinear) translation.

" It is clear that many are unaware of the dangerous differences found in the New World Translation. We’ve received several emails from people who were confused by a verse shown to them by a Jehovah’s Witness. Often the confusion results from the fact that the verse was like one of those in this article, and when we directed the person to a legitimate translation of that verse, their confusion lifted. When conversing with a Jehovah’s Witness, never let them read a verse from the NWT without verifying the wording in a legitimate translation. As Christians, our faith is supported by the God-breathed Scriptures. We must be on guard against translations that attack our faith through corruption of God’s Word."
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religi...

More at:
http://ittsy.com/focusonthefaulty/Pages/jehov...

I dare you to compare John 15:4,5; John 17:26; Galatians 1:16; Romans 8:10; Colossians 1:27 and 2 Corinthians 13:5 to a GOOD translation of the Bible (the NASB is good).

Extra credit:
Colossians 1:16-17
Philippians 2:9
Matthew 25:46,
2 Peter 2:9
Acts 4:21

"Numerous scholars with true credentials in the Biblical languages have condemned the Watchtower's New World Translation as a fatal distortion of God's written Word. For example, see The Bible Collector (luly-December, 1971) issue which devotes three articles evaluating the Watchtower scripture."
ibid
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36252 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you write all of this? It does not address the the issue of 1 Timothy 2:5 and the JW violation of it.
Do you think cutting and pasting stuff that is not relevant to the issue is in any way impressive?
Do you assume people are so dumb they won't see through it?
Okay, I will give you the second one. The whole JW cult is predicated on people being so dumb they don't see through it!
Did you NOT READ VERSE 3, 4 & 5?

This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.

What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation?
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36253 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:

You are like a chess player that makes the same opening blunder in every game, never learning from your mistake.

" While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yah.weh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton JHVH (NWT, 1950 ed., Foreword, p. 25 [note: This admission was removed from the 1961, 1970, 1984 editions of the NWT]).
The oldest NWT I have is 1961

Look at what the Watchtower 12/15/1952 on page 749 has to say….
JEHOVAH’S witnesses are dedicated to the publishing of Jehovah’s name. His name is clearly indicated in the Hebrew Holy Scriptures by the tetragrammaton, for which the Latin characters are JHVH, or English YHWH.

While the exact pronunciation of the four Hebrew characters for this name is not known, the name of the Sovereign Ruler of the universe as we have long known it is Jehovah in English.

Jehovah’s witnesses want all peoples from one end of the earth to the other to become acquainted with that name and its meaning. The inhabitants of all nations should know the divine name in their own languages. But to the reasoning mind it is a strange thing that the religious leaders in Christendom should try to hide, even destroy, that name.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36254 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:
The WT acknowledges that most Hebrew scholars prefer “Yahweh” as the true pronunciation:
Yes, many Bible scholars acknowledge that “Yahweh” more nearly represents the Hebrew pronunciation of the Divine Name (WT,[3] July 15, 1964, p. 423).
Watchtower 7/15/1964 page 423……….. If the publishing agency for Jehovah’s witnesses recognizes that “Yahweh” is more correct, why do they use “Jehovah” in their translation, writing and worship instead?

Because the form “Jehovah” has been familiar to people for many centuries, and that form of The Name, just as faithfully as other forms, preserves the sounds of the four consonants of the tetragrammaton.

We do not speak Hebrew today! We speak other languages. When we speak English, for example, then we use the English pronunciation of the Divine Name, which is “Jehovah.”

In other languages the divine name is pronounced differently, although quite similarly most of the time.
Those who reject the English “Jehovah” and insist on using the Hebrew pronunciation would do well to ask themselves why they say “Jesus Christ,” when that was not the way his name was pronounced in Hebrew.

That is the English way, derived from the Greek language. In Hebrew, Jesus would be closer to “Yehóshua” and Christ would be “Mashíahh.”

So, as we say “Jesus Christ” in the English language, we also say “Jehovah,” both being correct when speaking English.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36255 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:

Hebrew scholars generally favor “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation (Aid To Bible Understanding, 1971, 885).
Aid To Bible Understanding. 1971, p. 885……………. Hebrew scholars generally favor “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation. They point out that the abbreviated form of the name is Yah (Jah in Latinized form), as at Psalms 89:8 and in the expression of Hal lu Yah (meaning “Praise Jah, you people!”).

Since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-know form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation.

If such a change were made, then, to be consistent, changes should be made in the spelling and pronunciation of a host of other names found in the Scriptures: Jeremiah would be changed to Yirmyah, Isaiah would become Yshaayah u and Jesus would be either Yhohshua (as in Hebrew) or Iesous (as in Greek).

The purpose of words is to transmit thoughts; in English the name “Jehovah” identifies the true God, transmitting this thought more satisfactorily today than any of the suggested substitutes.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36256 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:

“Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the Divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars (Insight on the Scriptures, 1988, vol. 2, p. 5).
Insight on the Scriptures, 1988, vol. 2, p. 5……………….. Correct Pronunciation of the Divine Name.“Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars. The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek tetra, meaning “four,” and gram ma,“letter”). These four letters (written from right to left) and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).

The Hebrew consonants of the name are therefore known.

The question is, Which vowels are to be combined with those consonants?

Vowel points did not come into use in Hebrew until the second half of the first millennium C.E.

Furthermore, because of a religious superstition that had begun centuries earlier, the vowel pointing found in Hebrew manuscripts does not provide the key for determining which vowels should appear in the divine name.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#36257 Sep 4, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you NOT READ VERSE 3, 4 & 5?
This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.
What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation?

"mediator between God and men"

Nowhere is 'Watchtower' or the 'GBJW' mentioned in this role, out side of cult literature.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#36258 Sep 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:

The WT acknowledges that the pronunciation “Jehovah” was originally a “blunder”:

As to the Old Testament name of God, certainly the spelling and pronunciation “Jehovah” were originally a blunder (The Bible in Living English, 1972, p.7).

The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah] dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish [Roman Catholic] monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270 C.E.(Aid To Bible Understanding, 1971, p. 884-5).

The WT acknowledges that there is no NT Greek manuscript that contains “the divine name”:
That’s a lie!…………….Insight on the Scriptures vol. 2, p. 9……

Why is the divine name in its full form not in any available ancient manuscript of the Christian Greek Scriptures?

The argument long presented was that the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures made their quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures on the basis of the Septuagint, and that, since this version substituted Kyrios or Theos for the Tetragrammaton, these writers did not use the name Jehovah.

Commenting on the fact that the oldest fragments of the Greek Septuagint do contain the divine name in its Hebrew form, Dr. P. Kahle says:“We now know that the Greek Bible text [the Septuagint] as far as it was written by Jews for Jews did not translate the Divine name by kyrios, but the Tetragrammaton written with Hebrew or Greek letters was retained in such MSS [manuscripts].

It was the Christians who replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios, when the divine name written in Hebrew letters was not understood any more.”(The Cairo Geniza, Oxford, 1959, p. 222)

When did this change in the Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures take place?

It took place in the centuries following the death of Jesus and his apostles. In Aquila’s Greek version, dating from the second century C.E., the Tetragrammaton still appeared in Hebrew characters.

Around 245 C.E., the noted scholar Origen produced his Hexapla, a six-column reproduction of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures:(1) in their original Hebrew and Aramaic, accompanied by (2) a transliteration into Greek, and by the Greek versions of (3) Aquila,(4) Symmachus,(5) the Septuagint, and (6) Theodotion. On the evidence of the fragmentary copies now known, Professor W. G. Waddell says:“In Origen’s Hexapla ... the Greek versions of Aquila, Symmachus, and LXX [Septuagint] all represented JHWH by &#928;&#921;&#928; &#921;; in the second column of the Hexapla the Tetragrammaton was written in Hebrew characters.”(The Journal of Theological Studies, Oxford, Vol. XLV, 1944, pp. 158, 159)

Others believe the original text of Origen’s Hexapla used Hebrew characters for the Tetragrammaton in all its columns. Origen himself stated that “in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

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