Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35633 Jul 28, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm an atheist, so Satan doesn't exist for me. He's just one more of the pantheon in the Christian religions.

Oh there you go literalizing everything. I guess you are fundamentalist Christian Atheist.

I am a Jehovah atheist.

There is nothing wrong with being an atheist. I think being an agnostic is better from the standpoint of being more open-minded. However, if the god of the fundamentalists or the JW's or Islamics were the only choices available I would be an atheist too. In fact, I was a atheist for several years when I realized the insanity of the cult like church I was going to.

If by atheist you mean that you find the overly anthropomorphized God of the fundies is infinitely implausible then I must certainly agree.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#35634 Jul 28, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh there you go literalizing everything. I guess you are fundamentalist Christian Atheist.
I am a Jehovah atheist.
There is nothing wrong with being an atheist. I think being an agnostic is better from the standpoint of being more open-minded. However, if the god of the fundamentalists or the JW's or Islamics were the only choices available I would be an atheist too. In fact, I was a atheist for several years when I realized the insanity of the cult like church I was going to.
If by atheist you mean that you find the overly anthropomorphized God of the fundies is infinitely implausible then I must certainly agree.
No, I'm an atheist for all myths. Deities don't exist, they're fictions created by humans.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35635 Jul 28, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I didn't listen to Dogen. I read the wikipedia page he provided - that was enough.
I know you have beliefs that, for you, are real. All believers in all religions "know" they have the "one, true religion." So your scriptures wouldn't be revealing so much as your practices.

I don't know if I would consider atheism to be a religion but it is a belief about god (e.g. that it does not exist).

Ignoring the implausibility of the particular god that is believed in by modern religions, do you think that the concept of a god is impossible?

I am not trying to sell anything here. I am not setting you up to argue with your beliefs, I just want to discern what they are.

A famous Buddhist monk (Sogyal Rinpoche) when asked if Buddhists believe in God he replied "Buddhism does not deny the nature of God, but rather the concept of God"

What do you think about that?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#35636 Jul 28, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm an atheist, so Satan doesn't exist for me. He's just one more of the pantheon in the Christian religions.
You may be an atheist now, but that will change in due time.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35637 Jul 28, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm an atheist for all myths. Deities don't exist, they're fictions created by humans.

Conceptually speaking, that is true. Humans worship ideas about gods that have been handed down and forged into institutions (both literal and metaphorical).

Some myths started with a germ of truth.(just saying)

Is it possible for there to be an organizing force that is preexistent to the current material universe?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35638 Jul 28, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> You may be an atheist now, but that will change in due time.
What makes you think so?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#35639 Jul 28, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if I would consider atheism to be a religion but it is a belief about god (e.g. that it does not exist).
Ignoring the implausibility of the particular god that is believed in by modern religions, do you think that the concept of a god is impossible?
I am not trying to sell anything here. I am not setting you up to argue with your beliefs, I just want to discern what they are.
A famous Buddhist monk (Sogyal Rinpoche) when asked if Buddhists believe in God he replied "Buddhism does not deny the nature of God, but rather the concept of God"
What do you think about that?
The concept is quite clearly possible, and held by many. That doesn't make deities exist, though.

I don't really know how to engage with that quote. Buddhists are welcome to believe whatever they like, but their belief does not create reality, except for their personal, lived experience.

Humans are primates. Our brains and biology are permanently and semi-permanently shaped by our development and lived experience. For someone like "student," his religious beliefs are real in the sense that they are a lived, embodied experience. His brain literally interprets the universe around him as if his deity exists and he is within a Created universe.

There are evolutionary and adaptive reasons for the above, and that, combined with what our science describes of the universe, leads me to conclude that deities do not exist.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#35640 Jul 28, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> You may be an atheist now, but that will change in due time.
You may be a believer, but that will change with time.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#35641 Jul 28, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Conceptually speaking, that is true. Humans worship ideas about gods that have been handed down and forged into institutions (both literal and metaphorical).
Some myths started with a germ of truth.(just saying)
Is it possible for there to be an organizing force that is preexistent to the current material universe?
I don't know how I could possibly answer your question with any kind of certainty. I don't have access to information prior to the existence of our universe, I'm not a physicist, and I don't understand the math behind physics at the level of writing it.

The very best I can say is, if the universe was designed, then its design tells us about the designer(s). In such a case, and I believe the only reason you would ask it is b/c of the influence of religion on your thinking processes, the designer is unlike anything posited by any religion.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#35643 Jul 28, 2013
Daily Text


Monday, July 29

Immediately the spirit impelled him to go into the wilderness.—Mark 1:12.

The Bible reports that as a human, Jesus experienced what a powerful force God’s holy spirit was in his life. He welcomed its influence, and when it impelled him, he yielded and acted accordingly.(Luke 4:14) Are you of that sort? God’s active force still operates on willing minds and hearts to move and guide them. How can you let it work upon you to lead you in the right direction? Pray constantly to Jehovah that he send you his spirit and help you yield to its influence.(Eph. 3:14-16) Work in harmony with your prayers by searching out the counsel found in God’s written Word, the Bible—a product of holy spirit.(2 Tim. 3:16, 17) Obey the wise instructions it offers, and then respond eagerly to the leading of holy spirit. Act with faith in Jehovah’s ability to guide you properly through life in this wicked world.(Examining the Scriptures Daily 2013)
Student

Oregon City, OR

#35644 Jul 28, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
"I came not to destroy the law" Matt 5:17
You say he did and replaced it with magazines
In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus stated:“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.”(Matt. 5:17)

Or, as Today’s English Version renders the last sentence:“I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true.”

Since Jesus came to make the teachings of the prophets come true, his coming was a guarantee that their prophecies concerning the restoration of paradise on earth would be fulfilled.

Here are just a few:

Psalms 37:11, 29;
11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Psalms 72:1-8,16-19;
O God, give your own judicial decisions to the king,
And your righteousness to the son of the king.
 2 May he plead the cause of your people with righteousness
And of your afflicted ones with judicial decision.
 3 Let the mountains carry peace to the people,
Also the hills, through righteousness.
 4 Let him judge the afflicted ones of the people,
Let him save the sons of the poor one,
And let him crush the defrauder.
 5 They will fear you as long as there is a sun,
And before the moon for generation after generation.
 6 He will descend like the rain upon the mown grass,
Like copious showers that wet the earth.
 7 In his days the righteous one will sprout,
And the abundance of peace until the moon is no more.
 8 And he will have subjects from sea to sea
And from the River to the ends of the earth.

16 There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth;
On the top of the mountains there will be an overflow.
His fruit will be as in Leb&#8242;a&#8231;non,
And those who are from the city will blossom like the vegetation of the earth.
17 Let his name prove to be to time indefinite;
Before the sun let his name have increase,
And by means of him let them bless themselves;
Let all nations pronounce him happy.
18 Blessed be Jehovah God, Israel’s God,
Who alone is doing wonderful works.
19 And blessed be his glorious name to time indefinite,
And let his glory fill the whole earth.
Amen and Amen.

Psalms 115:16;As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong, But the earth he has given to the sons of men.


Isaiah 9:6, 7;
6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

Cont...
Student

Oregon City, OR

#35645 Jul 29, 2013
Isaiah 11:1-10;
And there must go forth a twig out of the stump of Jes&#8242;se; and out of his roots a sprout will be fruitful. 2 And upon him the spirit of Jehovah must settle down, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of mightiness, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah; 3 and there will be enjoyment by him in the fear of Jehovah. And he will not judge by any mere appearance to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to the thing heard by his ears. 4 And with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones, and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth. And he must strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the spirit of his lips he will put the wicked one to death. 5 And righteousness must prove to be the belt of his hips, and faithfulness the belt of his loins.
6 And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. 7 And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. 8 And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. 9 They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.

10 And it must occur in that day that there will be the root of Jesse that will be standing up as a signal for the peoples. To him even the nations will turn inquiringly, and his resting-place must become glorious.

Isaiah 45:18;  For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited:“I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.

Cont...
Student

Oregon City, OR

#35646 Jul 29, 2013
Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45;
34 You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the molded clay, the copper, the silver and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that no trace at all was found of them. And as for the stone that struck the image, it became a large mountain and filled the whole earth.
44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; 45 forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and [that] it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The grand God himself has made known to the king what is to occur after this. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy.”

Daniel 7:13, 14;
13 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

Also in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus showed quite clearly that the earth is due to play a part in the outworking of the divine will or purpose. He taught his followers to pray:“Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”(Matt. 6:9, 10) He linked the accomplishment of God’s will on earth with the coming of God’s kingdom, which is none other than the Messianic kingdom. Hence, the Lord’s Prayer, repeated literally millions of times by Catholics and Protestants throughout the centuries, is, in fact, among other things, a prayer for the fulfillment of the Messianic promises tied in with the millennial hope.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#35651 Jul 29, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
I find many atheists to be quite well educated and can marvel at the designers of say a jet aircraft - but when it comes to something in nature that is 1000 times more complex - they can't even acknowledge a design, let alone a designer of a 1000 times higher intelligent magnitude.
I'm an evolution specialist. There is no design. There is only apparent design driven by natural selection and other mechanisms of evolution - it is awesome, in the original sense of the word, and has nothing to do with deities.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35652 Jul 29, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The concept is quite clearly possible, and held by many. That doesn't make deities exist, though.
I don't really know how to engage with that quote. Buddhists are welcome to believe whatever they like, but their belief does not create reality, except for their personal, lived experience.
Humans are primates. Our brains and biology are permanently and semi-permanently shaped by our development and lived experience. For someone like "student," his religious beliefs are real in the sense that they are a lived, embodied experience. His brain literally interprets the universe around him as if his deity exists and he is within a Created universe.
There are evolutionary and adaptive reasons for the above, and that, combined with what our science describes of the universe, leads me to conclude that deities do not exist.

I am certainly not espousing an anthropomorphic, theistic, deity that man creates in his own image.

And I am aware of Students limitations.

Are you beyond limitations imposed by human belief systems?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35653 Jul 29, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know how I could possibly answer your question with any kind of certainty. I don't have access to information prior to the existence of our universe, I'm not a physicist, and I don't understand the math behind physics at the level of writing it.
The very best I can say is, if the universe was designed, then its design tells us about the designer(s). In such a case, and I believe the only reason you would ask it is b/c of the influence of religion on your thinking processes, the designer is unlike anything posited by any religion.

I don't like the term "designer" but since "God" is even more tainted I guess I will not object.

Any sort of universal consciousness, if it exists, would be far beyond our conceptualization of it. In other words I agree with you. I mention Buddhism as it has no a priori beliefs. Buddhism is more of a collection of techniques to free oneself from bondage to beliefs. There is nothing in Buddhism that is beyond question, even the utility of Buddhism itself. Buddhism has no ideas or teaching about god(s) and never proclaims the existence of them.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism." - Albert Einstein.

I keep bringing up Buddhism just to point out that you are placing all religions into a theistic box that should be reserved for Western Religions.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35654 Jul 29, 2013
Student wrote:
Daily Text

More spam from the minds that have predicted Armageddon over 10 times in the last 100 years and specifically in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, and 1975.

1925 Judge Rutherford said that "Millions [living at the time] would never die".

Jesus came back (invisibly) in the early 1900's.

Has used subliminal messages in their propaganda since the 1960's.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35655 Jul 29, 2013
Student wrote:
Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45;
34 You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the molded clay, the copper, the silver and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that no trace at all was found of them. And as for the stone that struck the image, it became a large mountain and filled the whole earth.
44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; 45 forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and [that] it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The grand God himself has made known to the king what is to occur after this. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy.”
Daniel 7:13, 14;
13 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.
Also in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus showed quite clearly that the earth is due to play a part in the outworking of the divine will or purpose. He taught his followers to pray:“Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”(Matt. 6:9, 10) He linked the accomplishment of God’s will on earth with the coming of God’s kingdom, which is none other than the Messianic kingdom. Hence, the Lord’s Prayer, repeated literally millions of times by Catholics and Protestants throughout the centuries, is, in fact, among other things, a prayer for the fulfillment of the Messianic promises tied in with the millennial hope.

Wow. Three posts full of crap. Even Satan knows the words of God.

Since you have decided I am beyond your ability to argue with (a correct assumption on your part since I have beaten you senseless many times now), do feel it is a personal failure on your part. You simply back the wrong team and it is easy to prove that the Watchtower is Satan's kingdom on earth.

Keep ignoring that and I will keep pointing out the truth to anyone who passes by. If they are objective they will see what lies your cult offers and will run away from you as fast as they can.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35656 Jul 29, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm an evolution specialist. There is no design. There is only apparent design driven by natural selection and other mechanisms of evolution - it is awesome, in the original sense of the word, and has nothing to do with deities.

Yon is sort of my buddy here, but I have to 100% agree with you on this. Creationism simply does not have any explanatory nor predictive power and evolution packs tons of it. Creationism cannot be falsified and therefore simply is not science.

The universe is perfectly capable of forming life and provides mechanisms for evolution. If the universe is the product of an intelligent force that we cannot understand then all of this would have been included.

"God" (whatever that means) is not the universes baby sitter nor repair man.

Personally I think science is closer to God than most religions.
Religions believe prepackaged dogma and Science studies and works toward a better understanding of the universe.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35657 Jul 29, 2013
yon wrote:
magazines or books
Ecclesiastes 12:12 "And furthermore, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

Then weary my flesh, baby! I love books and love to read.



Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 2 min FCVK THE SNOWFLAKES 26,565
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 17 min Aerobatty 985,714
*** All Time Favorite Songs *** (Dec '10) 18 min Halle Berry Sister 4,292
Why it's time for Donald Trump to RESIGN...in d... 23 min MOGA 41
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 1 hr Just Think 685,835
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 3 hr Jake999 619,750
Why some in the south tower got what they had c... 6 hr Doctor REALITY 2
More from around the web