Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#35049 Jun 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Definition is not the same as redefinition. Yours is just a dodge.
Word is already defined in the dictionary. You used etymology (a type of Genetic Fallacy) to redefine it for your purposes. It is a redefinition, because the word was already defined by a higher authority to yours.
Dogen wrote:
What is your first language?
Technically Spanish.
Dogen wrote:
French may be your third language, but I suspect you are illiterate in the first two.
Ad hominem. And a sucky one. Thus far I can read and write in all of the languages that I know. When I learn Mandarin Chinese, that will likely change, as I have little interest in learning how to write Mandarin script beyond phonetically. I wouldn't mind learning some Hiragana though... Anyway.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#35051 Jun 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
2 semesters of graduate level statistics, 1 applied graduate research class and a truck load of stats in my masters thesis.
This type of research is not definitive but is very fertile for the generation of testable hypotheses.
What do this initial results suggest as to the reason most JWs leave?
By the watchtower cults own statistics about 1 in 100 witnesses are disfellowshipped and shunned each year and apostasy is not even the the number one cause.
about 1/4 of the people leaving the cult are due to being shunned.
166,000 left the cult in 2005.
45,000 were shunned (and not reinstated) in the same year.
Sounds like the poll knows more about your cult than you do.
Most people are removed for sexual immorality.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#35053 Jun 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
It is a completely legitimate made up word. But it is not the name of Yahweh.
The issue was never if it was a word or not. What made you stupid enough to think that it was?
I love how you imply that most words aren't legitimate yet made up.

But as long as you vow to never say anything erroneous like the following again:
Dogen wrote:
There is no such thing as a "Jehovah".
Then everything is perfectly fine!

We are Witnesses of Jehovah, that is "God" and "a rendering of the ineffable name, JHVH, in the hebrew Scriptures" as defined in the dictionary.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#35056 Jun 11, 2013

New attractive JW's witness store opens in FRANCE for 6 months trial period in the center of the city of ROUEN near the Bethel, dragging much attention since its location in a walking street.

This is a FIRST in Europe, hoping it will bring good fruits, please check out the pictures below — JW.org NEW WITNESSING SHOP opens in France
doug

Tsumeb, Namibia

#35060 Jun 11, 2013
Saranac Otter wrote:
Do you JW's tell your people that tho there are 6.7 million of you only 144,000 are going to Heaven - seems like a slack Faith where not every member gets in.
the 144.000 will rule with Jehovah and Jesus over the rest of mankind on earth (Gods kingdom is a Goverment,( england is a kingdom
because it has a king and queen ) God has a kingdom as well.We will all be under the kingdom of God.( I sugjest that you should studie the scriptures and you might learn something.
You heard a bell ring but have no idea where the bell is.
doug

Tsumeb, Namibia

#35061 Jun 11, 2013
yon wrote:
1> You must believe that the Creators name is Jehovah - but you can't prove it.
2> You must believe that everything written in Brooklyn is done by little elves called the FDS and is the same as reading the Bible itself.
3> That elders are loving even though they destroy lives and have no conscience about the suffering it does to victims and families.
4> You will commit to publically spreading this malarkey and turning in your reports every month.
5> That all other religions are of the Devil.
6> Even though you eat pork, don't keep Sabbath, and don't follow the example of Messiah - you are his true disciples.
7> You must attend several cult meeting a week
8> You must rat on your brother if you suspect anything.
9> You must use almost exclusively the NWT Bible
that nobody else uses
10> If you have doubts - ignore them
IT JUST GOES ON AND ON.
you my friend heard a bell ring but have no idea where the bell is.you should not listen to stories that people tell you,
why dont you studie the bible with a witness and they will actually
point the truth out to you in the Bible.
doug

Tsumeb, Namibia

#35062 Jun 11, 2013
yon wrote:
1> You must believe that the Creators name is Jehovah - but you can't prove it.
2> You must believe that everything written in Brooklyn is done by little elves called the FDS and is the same as reading the Bible itself.
3> That elders are loving even though they destroy lives and have no conscience about the suffering it does to victims and families.
4> You will commit to publically spreading this malarkey and turning in your reports every month.
5> That all other religions are of the Devil.
6> Even though you eat pork, don't keep Sabbath, and don't follow the example of Messiah - you are his true disciples.
7> You must attend several cult meeting a week
8> You must rat on your brother if you suspect anything.
9> You must use almost exclusively the NWT Bible
that nobody else uses
10> If you have doubts - ignore them
IT JUST GOES ON AND ON.
Can you prove without any doubt that Gods name is not Jehovah (Jaweh) do you sing the words Halelujah in your churh it means praise jahovah or Jaweh.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35064 Jun 11, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no clue as to what is "scripturally obvious". You don't even own a real Bible.

Ad hominem. Ergo, Red Herring.

But still true. When the person, by virtue of their character or actions has a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim then attacking them is NOT an Ad Hominem.

AH =/= red herring.

So far it sounds like you have a list of fallacies but don't actually understand them.
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen wrote:
The Catholics are as welcome to claim him as is anyone else.
Bad Company Fallacy.

There is no such Fallacy. Perhaps you mean the Guilt by Association Fallacy.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guil...

But since that would be an incorrect citation of a fallacy on your part you might just want to retract this one (or ignore it).
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen wrote:
I can understand why the JW would want to claim him, however. They love to pretend they are martyrs.

Gonna say... probably sharpshooter fallacy but with implied elements of Genetic Red Herring Fallacy mixed in. Some Straw-man element is definitely present as well.


You don't seem to understand that something can be true even if it is stated as a fallacy.

JW's have an artificial martyr complex. Simple as that. The relationship I drew was clear, so it is not a Red herring. Unless my point is exaggerated or distorted it is not a Straw-man fallacy.

Perhaps you should actually read the definition of the fallacies.

Sharpshooter isn't even close.

ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen wrote:
Oh poor widdle Watchtwower cultists, people pick on them and kick sand in their faces just because they make up a religion that is not based on the bible and pretend that it is. Oh boo hoo hoo!

Straw-man grows and continues with an emotional appeal and implied ad hominem.

If you cannot tell mocking (a form of satire) from a fallacy then you should not be trying to cite them as a defense.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35065 Jun 11, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Word is already defined in the dictionary. You used etymology (a type of Genetic Fallacy) to redefine it for your purposes. It is a redefinition, because the word was already defined by a higher authority to yours..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology

No mention of the Genetic Fallacy.

Something about it being about the origin of words, their evolution and use.

Further, words are in the dictionary, not names. For the 500th time I have no problem that there is a English word Jehovah. My only point is that is is not the name of Yahweh.

Yahweh is the final authority. "Jehovah" is another word in the English language like god, dog, feces, duck.

Allah is an English word meaning god. Why not join the Allah Witnesses?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35066 Jun 11, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people are removed for sexual immorality.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
2 semesters of graduate level statistics, 1 applied graduate research class and a truck load of stats in my masters thesis.
This type of research is not definitive but is very fertile for the generation of testable hypotheses.
What do this initial results suggest as to the reason most JWs leave?
By the watchtower cults own statistics about 1 in 100 witnesses are disfellowshipped and shunned each year and apostasy is not even the the number one cause.
about 1/4 of the people leaving the cult are due to being shunned.
166,000 left the cult in 2005.
45,000 were shunned (and not reinstated) in the same year.
Sounds like the poll knows more about your cult than you do.

Correct.

And makes my point.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35067 Jun 11, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
I love how you imply that most words aren't legitimate yet made up.

Here is what I actually said:

Dogen wrote:
It is a completely legitimate made up word. But it is not the name of Yahweh.
The issue was never if it was a word or not. What made you stupid enough to think that it was?

ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
We are Witnesses of Jehovah, that is "God" and "a rendering of the ineffable name, JHVH, in the hebrew Scriptures" as defined in the dictionary.

No. Wrong again.

1. There is no J or equivalent sounding letter in Hebrew.
2. Jehovah is a word in English, not the name of God (Yahweh).
3. The equivalent of YHWH in English would be "Yahweh"
4. Jehovah is STILL the result of a translation error.
5. You are STILL using an incorrect name for God.
6. Yahweh predicted that people would be lead astray and "forget my name".

Now, you can go back to crying about the dictionary and English words. I am interested in the Name of God. You may now continue to blather about trivialities and your cult dogma.



“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35068 Jun 11, 2013
yon wrote:
As I mentioned, there's a long list of unwritten disfellowshiping offenses, any one of which can be seen as either "causing division," or "keeping the congregation clean." eg - growing a beard - beards are seen as both unclean and causing division. Never mind that Messiah sported one. They want total obedience to whatever you think they demand.

Technically even disagreeing with the Watchtower or ones fellow cultists is a disfellowship level offense.

But as we saw in the survey many members do disagree with the Watchtower, but they have no voice least they be shown the door.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35069 Jun 11, 2013
Student wrote:
New attractive JW's witness store opens in FRANCE for 6 months trial period in the center of the city of ROUEN near the Bethel, dragging much attention since its location in a walking street.
This is a FIRST in Europe, hoping it will bring good fruits, please check out the pictures below — JW.org NEW WITNESSING SHOP opens in France

Rotten fruit is not good.

Cult members are withering on the vine.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35070 Jun 11, 2013
yon wrote:
1> You must believe that the Creators name is Jehovah - but you can't prove it.
2> You must believe that everything written in Brooklyn is done by little elves called the FDS and is the same as reading the Bible itself.
3> That elders are loving even though they destroy lives and have no conscience about the suffering it does to victims and families.
4> You will commit to publically spreading this malarkey and turning in your reports every month.
5> That all other religions are of the Devil.
6> Even though you eat pork, don't keep Sabbath, and don't follow the example of Messiah - you are his true disciples.
7> You must attend several cult meeting a week
8> You must rat on your brother if you suspect anything.
9> You must use almost exclusively the NWT Bible
that nobody else uses
10> If you have doubts - ignore them
IT JUST GOES ON AND ON.

The USSR under Stalin.

Only with modern brainwashing and hard sell techniques.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35071 Jun 11, 2013
doug wrote:
<quoted text> you my friend heard a bell ring but have no idea where the bell is.you should not listen to stories that people tell you,
why dont you studie the bible with a witness and they will actually
point the truth out to you in the Bible.

Witnesses are brainwashed zombie droids. We know the truth and it has set us free from the Watchtower cult and their minions.

Free at last!
Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!- MLK,Jr.

BTW, learn how to write.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35072 Jun 11, 2013
doug wrote:
<quoted text> Can you prove without any doubt that Gods name is not Jehovah (Jaweh) do you sing the words Halelujah in your churh it means praise jahovah or Jaweh.

I have done this over and over.

"Jehovah" was a translation error made in the 11th century. The translator did not understand diacritical markings and how they influenced pronunciation in Hebraic languages. Thus he just IGNORED the markings. If the markings were not there then his rendering would have been correct (or at least close.... better would have been 'Yehoveh').

But since that is not the case.....
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#35073 Jun 11, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Rotten fruit is not good.
Cult members are withering on the vine.
Watchtower 9/1/1998 p.9….The Bible foretold that true Christians today would be united, brought together into one “land” as one “nation,” where they would be “shining as illuminators in the world.”(Isaiah 66:8; Philippians 2:15) This organized “nation” now numbers more than five and a half million.(Isaiah 60:8-10, 22)

I heard that we now have close to 8 million publishers!!!!!

Doesn’t sound like our members are withering to me.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35076 Jun 12, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Watchtower 9/1/1998 p.9….The Bible foretold that true Christians today would be united, brought together into one “land” as one “nation,” where they would be “shining as illuminators in the world.”(Isaiah 66:8; Philippians 2:15) This organized “nation” now numbers more than five and a half million.(Isaiah 60:8-10, 22)
I heard that we now have close to 8 million publishers!!!!!
Doesn’t sound like our members are withering to me.

You just quote random scriptures that don't make your point, don't you.

Not one of your scriptures seriously makes any suggestion close to your obscene assertion.

What the numbers indicate is that you are peaking as a cult and are starting to sink faster than your bilge pumps can remove the dead weight. Your cult could last hundreds of years longer.

Satan will not win in the long run, but he is giving you a good ride in the short.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35077 Jun 12, 2013
yon wrote:
The Orwellian Thinking Of JW's
http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/showth...

Wow. That was a lot of factual and historic information to get through.

The thoughts toward the end stick out

"Whoever has even once become notorious by base fraud, even if he speaks the truth, gains no belief." -- Phaedrus.

The watchtower cult has cried wolf far to many times to maintain credibility. So they distance themselves from their past like it was a distant kookie ancestor that they disavow.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#35079 Jun 12, 2013
Jehovah is Not the More Correct Way!

Since one of the outstanding features of the NWT is their abundant usage of the word Jehovah, how can they elsewhere admit that Yahweh is the more correct way to render God's name?

While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yah.weh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century.(3)

Why then did the NWT forfeit accuracy to use the word Jehovah, which began to be used in the 14th century? Their answer is because of people's familiarity with it. That is another way of saying that they have upheld the traditions of man's inventions since the 14th century at the expense of truth and accuracy, which they knew about. Notice how many times this was done in the NWT:

It has been done, using the commonly accepted English form "Jehovah" 6,973 times in the Hebrews Scriptures and 237 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures.(4)

How can the NWT claim that Jehovah is the restoration of the divine name to its rightful place in the English text, since they openly admit Yahweh is more correct? Shouldn't they rather have stated that knowingly they have omitted the more correct name for God, that is Yahweh, and substituted a different name which began to be used in the 14th century -- Jehovah. Furthermore, how can they claim that God's name Jehovah should be vindicated?

For many centuries, particularly after the days of Jesus and his apostles, the meaning of the name Jehovah has been lost to sight, and even the very name has been pushed into the background. Only in very recent years has God caused his name to be brought forth again to the light and its meaning to be made known to his faithful servants, because it is the due time and the vindication of his name Jehovah draws near. Let none now ignore that name!(5)


The Usage of Jehovah Came From Catholicism

Yet a different piece of Watchtower literature states the same embarrassing information about the word Jehovah, but elaborates as to its Catholic origin in 1270:

By combining the vowel signs of 'Adho.nay and 'Elo.him' with the four consonants of the Tetragrammaton the pronunciations Yeho.wah' and Yehowih' were formed. The first of these provided the basis for the Latinized form "Jehova(h)." The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favor "Yahweh" as the most likely pronunciation.(6)

Please note: Hebrew scholars generally favor "Yahweh" as the most likely pronunciation.

Bruce Metzger, who criticizes the KJV's misusage of Jehovah, gives additional information:(7)

The form "Jehovah" is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word ....(1) The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew.(2) The use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom the true God had to be distinguished, began to be discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.(8)

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