Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34548 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You have fallen into a typical mind control cult. I cannot help you. You have to make a choice to help yourself. Do HONEST investigation of what your cult tells you. Don't look at THEIR research (what do you think it will say?). Look for the truth.
The apostle John, writing his first general letter over 60 years after Jesus’ death and resurrection, counseled that Christians should “not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.”(1 John 4:1)

I have, and so should you!
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34549 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I promise you that if you truly seek you can find Yahweh. I took up this challenge when I was the member of a cult (Church of Christ) and it gave me the courage to investigate.

Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Imprisonment in a satanic cult is not freedom. You feel free only because you have never tried to get out.

Try the door and you will find it is locked.

Turn against the cult and your "friends" will turn against you and will call you evil names.

But it is worth it.
It takes a lot of courage to become one of Jesus Christ followers. Surrounded as we are by this world’s attitudes and conduct, we need courage to resist contamination.

True Christians deal with moral, social, financial, and religious pressures that could cause them to deviate from Jehovah’s righteous ways. Many face family opposition. Jesus’ example shows us how we can succeed.

Jesus told his disciples:“In the world you are having tribulation, but take courage! I have conquered the world.”(John 16:33)

He never yielded to the world’s influence. He never allowed the world to stop him from carrying out his preaching commission or to cause him to lower his standards for true worship and proper conduct; nor should we.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34554 May 19, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Satan is your father, as he is the father of all liars. Jesus Christ identified the first liar, and he showed that it was not a human. He said:“When he [Satan] speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”(John 8:44)
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through

So you, a known and confirmed liar, are accusing me of being a liar.

But that is simply another lie on your part.


You simply cannot address the facts I post therefore have to find another means to save face. I don't blame you. You live in a nest of liars. How can you not act like them and survive?

I have given you the links that expose your cult. I bet you never looked at them!!!! Cowardice is another trait True followers of Jesus should not possess. God will look out for you, so why be afraid to seek the truth.

Until you muster the courage to read the truth about your cult you are useless to yourself.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34555 May 19, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you are comparing yourself with Jesus?

Of course. He is my leader, my brother and my earthly example. I don't measure up to him, but that is not for lack of trying on my part.
Ephesians 4:26-27
Rom 3:23
1 John 3:4

1 Sam 11:1-6
1 Sam 20:24-35
Mark 3:1-5
Matthew 21:12-13
Luke 19:45-48

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34556 May 19, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
That’s where you are wrong my friend. The trinity doctrine is much like the belief of the Pharisees.“They believe that souls have power to survive death and that there are rewards and punishments under the earth for those who have led lives of virtue or vice: eternal imprisonment is the lot of evil souls, while the good souls receive an easy passage to a new life.”(Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 14 [i, 3])

There is that dead dog being beaten again.

You don't even seem to understand why Jesus called the Pharisees and Sadducees out. Hint: it was not so much their theology.

Their theological errors where similar to yours.

Sadducees
Deuteronomy 4:2 (changed the word)
Revered the written word above the spirit
Where literalists about the written word.
Believed that the soul perished at death
Denied the existence of a spiritual world

Pharisees were actually much more like Jesus and shared a common theology. They agreed on the Law but were more literal and conservative than Jesus. Jesus was the ultimate liberal (not in a political sense). He believe in understanding Yahweh's word in a common sense, rational, practical way.

----------

So, if it was not theology that was at issue, then what problem did he have with these groups?

If you find what angered Jesus about these groups, you will find what he what he would dislike about the Watchtower cult.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34559 May 19, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
You, like certain apostates today, are disloyally working as Satan’s agents to undermine the faith of newly associated members of the Christian congregation.(2 Corinthians 11:13)

You believe this because Satan has deceived you.

Lets look at the Fruit of your cult.

Child abuse/molestation
Murder
Lying in court
rewriting the bible to suit your doctrine.
Using subliminal messages in its literature.
False prophecy
Rewriting its own history.
Paying off potential law suits to keep it out of the papers.

And this is just the tip of the ice burg.

You and the cult are the true apostates.
Student wrote:
<quoted text>Rather than simply use the Bible as the basis for true teachings, they concentrate on trying to discredit the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, as if Jehovah’s Witnesses were wholly dependent on it for support.

There is no scholarly support for the New Wacko Trash. Its source was stolen and rewritten by theological amateurs.

DON'T try to quote-mine your way out of this. You take one scholar out of context and I will demonstrate where the quote-mine comes from and what the full context actually says.

I have embarrassed many a false witness in this manner.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> But this is not so. For the best part of a century, the Witnesses used primarily the King James Version, the Roman Catholic Douay Version, or whatever versions were available in their language, to learn the truth about Jehovah and his purposes.

But they did not work because a real bible exposes the false teachings of the cult. So they had to write their own.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> Since 1961, however, they have additionally enjoyed the use of the New World Translation, with its updated, accurate translation and fine readability.

It is inspired by Satan. It is intentional deception and violated scripture in deliberately inserting and omitting words to conform to cult doctrine.

It is the worst translation available in English that I personally know of.

Oddly, it also does not follow the Cult interlinear, so much so they had to quietly remove the interlinear from circulation.

==========

Bottom line. I can prove what I say, but only to those willing and brave enough to examine the facts.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34563 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No problem.
I know a lot of CoC survivors. We went through the ordeal of leaving the cult independently, but it was mostly due to coming to the same conclusions about the church.
That said I still have a friend that is a CoC minister, but he is more moderate than most.
Moderate being what?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34564 May 19, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Moderate being what?

Not completely off his rocker.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34565 May 19, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
It takes a lot of courage to become one of Jesus Christ followers. Surrounded as we are by this world’s attitudes and conduct, we need courage to resist contamination.

Translation: I have swallowed the cult byline hook, line and sinker and I am terrified of examining its dogma with a critical attitude.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> True Christians deal with moral, social, financial, and religious pressures that could cause them to deviate from Jehovah’s righteous ways. Many face family opposition. Jesus’ example shows us how we can succeed.

Translation: Even after being proven wrong about the very name of Yahweh I continue to use a blasphemous perversion of that name. Yes, I am that scared and indoctrinated.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> Jesus told his disciples:“In the world you are having tribulation, but take courage! I have conquered the world.”(John 16:33)

Translation: I claim the bible yet the Cult is my true master. My indoctrination comforts me and allows me to feel superior.
Student wrote:
<quoted text> He never yielded to the world’s influence. He never allowed the world to stop him from carrying out his preaching commission or to cause him to lower his standards for true worship and proper conduct; nor should we.

Translation: I rationalize that I and my Cult are anything like Jesus or Yahweh. I cannot stand on my own feet even with the support of the spirit.

End of translation.

Your cult is a bunch of posers. Their theology was so badly refuted by real Christians they had to rewrite the bible to save face. You blabber scripture that is not even relevant to the issues at hand.

You are like a bulimic who ingests the good food of the scripture and then vomits it out at random places.

You have no understanding because the spirit is not with you.

Do you think I am mean for trying to open the kingdom of Yahweh to you?


Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34566 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Not completely off his rocker.
Could you be more specific on what he tolerates or doesn't tolerate?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34569 May 19, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Could you be more specific on what he tolerates or doesn't tolerate?

Why does it interest you in the least?

Your cult has him, isn't that enough?
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34570 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. He is my leader, my brother and my earthly example. I don't measure up to him, but that is not for lack of trying on my part.
Ephesians 4:26-27
James 1:19, 20

19 Know this, my beloved brothers. Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath;
for man’s wrath does not work out God’s righteousness.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34571 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Rom 3:23
To this the Bible also gives a straightforward answer. Its reply is summed up in this rule:“Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.”(Gal. 6:7) You cannot sow weeds and reap wheat, nor sow poison ivy and harvest grapes. And it is just as true that a person cannot sow what is wrong and reap what is good.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34572 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
1 John 3:4
The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.”(1 John 3:10; 5:18)
John’s counsel is so timely even today:“For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome.”

Those commandments include “preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom” and “keeping separate from the world and neutral in its conflicts, while doing our utmost to sanctify Jehovah’s name and practice true love”.(1 John 5:3; Mark 13:10; John 17:16; Matthew 6:9; 1 John 3:23)
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34573 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
There is that dead dog being beaten again.

You don't even seem to understand why Jesus called the Pharisees and Sadducees out. Hint: it was not so much their theology.
The main issues over which the Pharisees contended with Christ Jesus involved Sabbath observance (Mt 12:1, 2; Mr 2:23, 24; Lu 6:1, 2),

adherence to tradition (Mt 15:1, 2; Mr 7:1-5),

and association with sinners and tax collectors (Mt 9:11; Mr 2:16; Lu 5:30).

The Pharisees apparently thought that defilement resulted from association with persons who did not observe the Law according to their view of it.(Lu 7:36-39)

Therefore, when Christ Jesus associated and even ate with sinners and tax collectors, this prompted them to object.(Lu 15:1, 2)

The Pharisees found fault with Jesus and his disciples because of their not practicing the traditional washing of hands.(Mt 15:1, 2; Mr 7:1-5; Lu 11:37, 38)

But Jesus exposed their wrong reasoning and showed them to be violators of God’s law on account of their adherence to man-made traditions.(Mt 15:3-11; Mr 7:6-15; Lu 11:39-44)

Rather than rejoicing and glorifying God in connection with the miraculous cures performed by Christ Jesus on the Sabbath, the Pharisees were filled with rage over what they deemed a violation of the Sabbath law and therefore plotted to kill Jesus.(Mt 12:9-14; Mr 3:1-6; Lu 6:7-11; 14:1-6) To a blind man whom Jesus had cured on the Sabbath they said concerning Jesus:“This is not a man from God, because he does not observe the Sabbath.”(Joh 9:16)

The attitude the Pharisees displayed showed that they were not righteous and clean inside.(Mt 5:20; 23:26) Like the rest of the Jews, they were in need of repentance.(Compare Mt 3:7, 8; Lu 7:30.) But the majority of them preferred to remain spiritually blind (Joh 9:40) and intensified their opposition to the Son of God.(Mt 21:45, 46; Joh 7:32; 11:43-53, 57)

There were Pharisees who falsely accused Jesus of expelling demons by means of the ruler of the demons (Mt 9:34; 12:24) and of being a false witness.(Joh 8:13)

Certain Pharisees tried to intimidate the Son of God (Lu 13:31), demanded that he display a sign to them (Mt 12:38; 16:1; Mr 8:11), endeavored to trap him in his speech (Mt 22:15; Mr 12:13; Lu 11:53, 54), and otherwise tried to test him by questionings (Mt 19:3; 22:34-36; Mr 10:2; Lu 17:20).

Jesus finally silenced their questionings by asking them how it would be possible for David’s lord also to be David’s son.(Mt 22:41-46)

The mob that later seized Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane included Pharisees (Joh 18:3-5, 12, 13), and Pharisees were among those who requested that Pilate secure Jesus’ tomb so that the body could not be stolen.(Mt 27:62-64) It-2 Pharisees, p. 625
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34574 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Their theological errors where similar to yours.

Sadducees
Deuteronomy 4:2 (changed the word)
Revered the written word above the spirit
Where literalists about the written word.
Believed that the soul perished at death
Denied the existence of a spiritual world

Pharisees were actually much more like Jesus and shared a common theology. They agreed on the Law but were more literal and conservative than Jesus. Jesus was the ultimate liberal (not in a political sense). He believe in understanding Yahweh's word in a common sense, rational, practical way.
As pointed out by John the Baptizer, the Sadducees needed to produce fruits befitting repentance. This was because they, like the Pharisees, had failed to keep God’s law.(Mt 3:7, 8) Christ Jesus himself compared their corrupting teaching to leaven.—Mt 16:6, 11, 12.

With reference to their religious beliefs, Acts 23:8 states:“Sadducees say there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees publicly declare them all.” It was in connection with the resurrection and brother-in-law marriage that a group of Sadducees attempted to stump Christ Jesus. But he silenced them. By referring to the writings of Moses, which the Sadducees professed to accept, Jesus disproved their contention that there is no resurrection.(Mt 22:23-34; Mr 12:18-27; Lu 20:27-40)

Later, the apostle Paul, when before the Sanhedrin, divided that highest Jewish court by playing the Pharisees against the Sadducees.

This was possible because of the religious differences existing between them.(Ac 23:6-10) it-2 Sadducees, p. 839
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34575 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe this because Satan has deceived you.

Lets look at the Fruit of your cult.

Child abuse/molestation
Murder
Lying in court
rewriting the bible to suit your doctrine.
Using subliminal messages in its literature.
False prophecy
Rewriting its own history.
Paying off potential law suits to keep it out of the papers.

And this is just the tip of the ice burg.

You and the cult are the true apostates.
The person who values his relationship with the Most High is willing to change his religion when he is convinced that the religion to which he belongs does not measure up to the Scriptures. It is only by changing that he can escape God’s adverse judgment.

That a change from Christendom’s defiled religions is the right thing to do is indicated by the divine command:“Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”(Rev. 18:4)

Do not, therefore, close your ears to Jehovah’s witnesses when they call at your door. Listen to what they have to say and examine the Scriptures carefully to see whether it is so.

Your eternal welfare depends upon your making a wise decision about the way you want to worship.

Teach me to do your will, for you are my God.—Ps. 143:10.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34576 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no scholarly support for the New Wacko Trash. Its source was stolen and rewritten by theological amateurs.

DON'T try to quote-mine your way out of this. You take one scholar out of context and I will demonstrate where the quote-mine comes from and what the full context actually says.

I have embarrassed many a false witness in this manner.
The New World Translation Is it really a scholarly translation?

Since the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. The translation must be appraised on its own merits.

What kind of translation is this? For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages.

It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas that they believe will be helpful.

As an aid to students, a number of editions provide extensive footnotes showing variant readings where expressions can legitimately be rendered in more than one way, also a listing of the specific ancient manuscripts on which certain renderings are based.

Some verses may not read the same as what a person is accustomed to. Which rendering is right?

Readers are invited to examine manuscript support cited in footnotes of the Reference edition of the New World Translation, read explanations given in the appendix, and compare the rendering with a variety of other translations.

They will generally find that some other translators have also seen the need to express the matter in a similar manner.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34577 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
But they did not work because a real bible exposes the false teachings of the cult. So they had to write their own.
Close to 100 years the Witnesses used primarily the King James Version, the Roman Catholic Douay Version, or whatever versions were available in their language, to learn the truth about Jehovah and his purposes.
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#34578 May 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
It is inspired by Satan. It is intentional deception and violated scripture in deliberately inserting and omitting words to conform to cult doctrine.

It is the worst translation available in English that I personally know of.

Oddly, it also does not follow the Cult interlinear, so much so they had to quietly remove the interlinear from circulation.
We still have the Interlinear Bible, tell some more lies!

Why does Dr. BeDuhn use the Kingdom Interlinear translation in his college courses?

He answers:“Simply put, it is the best interlinear New Testament available.

He says: I am a trained scholar of the Bible, familiar with the texts and tools in use in modern biblical studies, and, by the way, not a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. But I know a quality publication when I see one, and your ‘New World Bible Translation Committee’ has done its job well. Your interlinear English rendering is accurate and consistent to an extreme that forces the reader to come to terms with the linguistic, cultural, and conceptual gaps between the Greek-speaking world and our own.

Your ‘New World Translation’ is a high quality, literal translation that avoids traditional glosses in its faithfulness to the Greek. It is, in many ways, superior to the most successful translations in use today.”

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