Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34399 May 14, 2013
Who are the 144,000?

The Watchtower Society teaches this is a literal number of those who will go to heaven. Revelation is written in figurative language (Rev. 1:1). If the number 144,000 is literal, its composition must also be literal, which means the number is composed of 12,000 Jews from each tribe mentioned, and none from Dan (Rev. 7:1-8). The number was sealed, probably indicating God’s protection of all His people on earth; the great multitude had white robes, probably indicating victorious saints in the keeping of God (Rev. 7:4,9). John identified the great multitude as in heaven (Rev. 19:1). This is figurative language, but the Bible plainly teaches that there is ultimately one hope (Eph. 4:4); that hope is reserved in heaven for the faithful (1 Pet. 1:3-5). The Bible knows nothing of an earth class and a heaven class in eternity.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34402 May 14, 2013
yon wrote:
I don't suppose anybody has a clue as to what Shavuot is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavuot
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34403 May 14, 2013
yon wrote:
So do you eat pork? Do jw's eat pork? I'd say you have the same anti-semetic church fathers
Under the Mosaic Law, pork was not an acceptable food.(Romans 14:2; Leviticus 11:7)

That Law was and is no longer binding after Jesus died.(Ephesians 2:15)

Three and a half years after Jesus’ death, an angel told the apostle Peter that from God’s standpoint no food should be viewed as defiled.(Acts 11:7-12)

With these factors in mind, some Jewish Christians may have felt that they could eat pork—or enjoy some other food that had been prohibited under the Mosaic Law.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34404 May 14, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Under the Mosaic Law, pork was not an acceptable food.(Romans 14:2; Leviticus 11:7)
That Law was and is no longer binding after Jesus died.(Ephesians 2:15)
Three and a half years after Jesus’ death, an angel told the apostle Peter that from God’s standpoint no food should be viewed as defiled.(Acts 11:7-12)
With these factors in mind, some Jewish Christians may have felt that they could eat pork—or enjoy some other food that had been prohibited under the Mosaic Law.

You are hallucinating if you think Acts 11:7-12 says anything of the sort.

And you have a misunderstanding of Eph. 2. Maybe you should get a Bible and read the chapter for yourself.

Read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

What is the point of the chapter?

You cultists are always taking things out of context.

Such misunderstandings keep you in your cell where Satan wants you.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34405 May 14, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Under the Mosaic Law, pork was not an acceptable food.(Romans 14:2; Leviticus 11:7)
That Law was and is no longer binding after Jesus died.(Ephesians 2:15)
Three and a half years after Jesus’ death, an angel told the apostle Peter that from God’s standpoint no food should be viewed as defiled.(Acts 11:7-12)
With these factors in mind, some Jewish Christians may have felt that they could eat pork—or enjoy some other food that had been prohibited under the Mosaic Law.
Very well said my friend, hope you're having a great day.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34406 May 14, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are hallucinating if you think Acts 11:7-12 says anything of the sort.
And you have a misunderstanding of Eph. 2. Maybe you should get a Bible and read the chapter for yourself.
Read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...
What is the point of the chapter?
You cultists are always taking things out of context.
Such misunderstandings keep you in your cell where Satan wants you.
When God told the people of the old testament not to eat such things as pork and other foods it was because these animals were scavengers so to speak , and if not cleaned proplerly could cause many to become sick and or die, so it's more than God just saying not to eat of these foods, as he does so with a very good reason.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34407 May 14, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses Are Leaving Their Religion.

The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses claims to be God's organization and channel of communication in these last days before armageddon. According to the organization, only Jehovah's Witnesses have any scriptural hope of being saved. WT Sept 1989

Leaving A Religion To Give God All The Glory.

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses leaving? They're leaving to give God all the glory instead of a handful of men in NYC.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe it's unscriptural to honor humans to excess. They can't idolize their favorite movie star or musician. They can't look up to people as if they are special. Everyone is thought to be equals.

But there is one blatant exception that more and more Witnesses are noticing.

In harmony with the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body, Elders, and other men taking the lead are honored to excess with the reverence that should be reserved only for God.

Jehovah's Witnesses are told they should trust God's 'faithful and discreet slave', the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses completely. They are admonished to be submissive and obedient. Rebellion against the organization is thought to be the same as rebellion against God. The Watchtower has taught Jehovah's Witnesses that giving that much power to humans is wrong. It is the sin of idolatry.
•No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is 'God's organization'
•No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is God's 'faithful and discreet slave'
•Watchtower claims are opinions, not 'the truth'. Matthew 7:26,27


No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is God's organization or his 'faithful and discreet slave class'. Read Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42. What does the Bible say? Then read what the Watchtower says about those scriptures. What do they say? Does the Watchtower accurately reflect what the Bible says? Or are they using the Bible as a tool to trick readers into believing they have the authority of God?

If you read only the Bible and are a Witness, you may be shocked to discover that the meaning of faithful and discreet slave parable is unknown! It is a false assumption to say that 'the master' in the parable is Jesus. No one knows who the master is or who the slave is, or what Jesus was referring to.

In spite of this, the Governing Body says they represent God's 'faithful and discreet slave'. WT June 15, 2009, Article:'The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body'

A faith built on false assumptions instead of truth will not withstand heavy rains and wind. Matthew 7:26,27; That's why Jehovah's Witnesses are leaving their religion.

If you're a JW you can believe whatever you want, but if the Bible is your only authority, then you know that Jesus is the path to salvation, NOT the religion you belong to. Jesus couldn't care less what church you go to, or how many holidays you didn't celebrate. Read the words of Jesus in the Bible and you'll find this to be true.

Keeping strict rules and being obedient to church officials, in order to earn everlasting life, would be virtually the same as worshipping a false god and putting humans first ahead of God. We could rattle off a bunch of scriptures, but if you're a JW, you already know what it says about bowing down to any man made statue or symbol for salvation other than the one and only true God.

If you're a Witness, we urge you to read an unbiased Bible translation without any Watchtower literature. Do not put your trust in man. Put your trust only in God. Don't let any human or human organization tell you they are God's channel of communication. They are not. If you are an adult, do not obey humans and put your trust in them. Let Jesus be your only authority. Matthew 28:18,19. Do not have other Gods. Pray to God. Ask for wisdom. He will answer all your prayers.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34408 May 14, 2013
Informative info regarding ex members of the JW's. http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/myths.php

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34409 May 14, 2013
Ten Step Program To Liberate You From The Watchtower’s Mind Programming
by Victor Escalante
victorescalante@hotmail.com
Reproduced with the permission of the author.

http://www.towerwatch.com/help_for_ex-witness...
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34410 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
Who are the 144,000?
The Watchtower Society teaches this is a literal number of those who will go to heaven. Revelation is written in figurative language (Rev. 1:1). If the number 144,000 is literal, its composition must also be literal, which means the number is composed of 12,000 Jews from each tribe mentioned, and none from Dan (Rev. 7:1-8). The number was sealed, probably indicating God’s protection of all His people on earth; the great multitude had white robes, probably indicating victorious saints in the keeping of God (Rev. 7:4,9). John identified the great multitude as in heaven (Rev. 19:1). This is figurative language, but the Bible plainly teaches that there is ultimately one hope (Eph. 4:4); that hope is reserved in heaven for the faithful (1 Pet. 1:3-5). The Bible knows nothing of an earth class and a heaven class in eternity.
Heavenly Class
Revelation 14:1-4
And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

Notice verse 3? How different this Scriptural fact is from the idea in Christendom that the hundreds of millions of her church members will go to heaven at death! Here let us remember that “firstfruits” of any harvest are not the whole crop, but are merely a small token selection from the whole crop. Jesus hinted at the fewness of the Kingdom members when he said to his disciples:“Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom. Sell the things belonging to you and give gifts of mercy. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, a never-failing treasure in the heavens.”—Luke 12:32, 33.

Now look at Revelation 14:4
These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb

God’s purpose respecting those who are begotten by his spirit is for them to be a “certain firstfruits,” or,‘a kind of firstfruits.’ They are taken out from among mankind as a firstfruits to God. According to the Law given to Israel, the firstfruits were offered to the Most High.(Ex. 22:29, 30; 23:19) Ancient Israel was called “the first yield” to God.(Jer. 2:3) Likewise, those taken out from among mankind are set apart for sacred service, to be “a kingdom and priests” to God.(Rev. 5:10)

Cont...
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34411 May 14, 2013
Earthly Class
Revelation 7:9, 10
9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying:“Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

This great crowd will survive the great tribulation, and as they continue to be refreshed by “fountains of waters of life,” they will be raised to human perfection on earth. Sometime after the great tribulation, Hades will be emptied, and countless millions of other humans will be resurrected and have the opportunity to drink from those same waters of life. With this in mind, it would be correct to call the great crowd a firstfruits of the other sheep—they are the first to ‘wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb’ with the hope of living forever on earth.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34412 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Are Leaving Their Religion.
Jehovah’s Witnesses leaving? Who are you kidding? They are one of the fastest growing religions with a 4.4 percent growth according to ABC News report of Feb 2012

JWTalk - Jehovah's Witnesses - YouTube
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34413 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Very well said my friend, hope you're having a great day.
Thanks, I am have a really great day.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34414 May 14, 2013

The Society has almost no growth in lands where the internet is widespread, while it enjoys substantial growth in lands where the internet is virtually unavailable. Obviously, the fact that there is a clear correlation does not mean that the internet is the ONLY factor making life difficult for the Society in wealthy/developed countries. However, when you think about it carefully, it certainly can’t be helping matters. The internet is strewn with information that discredits, embarrasses and refutes the Watch Tower Society and its teachings. This surely cannot go unnoticed by interested ones.


Once the door is closed, you can’t prevent people from investigating witness beliefs online

To illustrate, imagine you are called upon by Witnesses who leave a Bible Teach book with you and offer to call again. You are excited by the title and read through the book quickly in just one evening. You can’t believe that the Bible has just been explained so clearly when you thought it was complicated to understand. Still, you are wary that people are often trying to trick one another, and you feel it would be worth “googling” Jehovah’s Witnesses to see what people have to say about them. After all, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

On the first page of Google, aside from the official Society web pages, you see at least two websites that are critical. You investigate more deeply and soon realise that Jehovah’s Witnesses, however well-intentioned they are, are simply another cult with an array of false teachings and some truly shocking scandals, even involving the mishandling of child abuse. What would you do the next time the Witnesses call? You would likely hand back their book and say that you are not interested before closing the door on them. Does that scenario sound familiar?

Perhaps you have had a bible study or return visit who has quickly and inexplicably gone “cold” on you. This is likely the reason why! Objective information about the Society and its many mistakes and scandals is all over the internet. It takes very little effort to find it. Now we are starting to notice the problem being reflected in the growth statistic at the bottom of each report. If things continue at their current trend, it likely won’t be too long before the growth figure hits 0%, or even falls into the negative.

In fact, when you study the 2012 report closely, you realize that despite the Witnesses’ best efforts more than 45 lands reported an actual reduction in publisher numbers last year. These countries included: Pakistan (-6.1%), Slovakia (-0.8%), Finland (-0.7%), New Zealand (-0.7%), Hungary (-0.6%), Estonia (-0.6%), Uruguay (-0.05), Poland (-0.4%), Netherlands (-0.4%), Japan (-0.3%) and Germany (-0.1%) among others.

It therefore isn’t inconceivable that the first “minus growth” report is just around the corner. However, if the figures were to ever get so bad, I have strong reason to believe that the Society would simply stop printing the full annual report altogether. Why do I say this?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34415 May 14, 2013
Of all the things they abstain from, this by far is the worse, this is the ultimate betrayal to our men and women who serve to protect their rights, it's the most shameful of all the things the Jehovah Witnesses do not participate in, disquisting to say the least. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to salute the flag of any nation, recite the pledge of allegiance, stand for or sing the national anthem, run for public office, vote, or serve in the armed forces.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34416 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> When God told the people of the old testament not to eat such things as pork and other foods it was because these animals were scavengers so to speak , and if not cleaned proplerly could cause many to become sick and or die, so it's more than God just saying not to eat of these foods, as he does so with a very good reason.

Did you read my post before responding to it????


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are hallucinating if you think Acts 11:7-12 says anything of the sort.
And you have a misunderstanding of Eph. 2. Maybe you should get a Bible and read the chapter for yourself.
Read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/ ...
What is the point of the chapter?
You cultists are always taking things out of context.
Such misunderstandings keep you in your cell where Satan wants you.

==========

BTW, God did not tell the Jews not to eat (etc) pork because it could make them sick. God was very specific as to why they should not eat such thing. He used words like 'detestable' and 'unclean'(see Leviticus 11).

If his REAL motivation was because they could make them sick then why did God have to LIE to his people?

BTW, Leviticus uses the same words in describing homosexual acts.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34417 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses Are Leaving Their Religion.
The religion of Jehovah's Witnesses claims to be God's organization and channel of communication in these last days before armageddon. According to the organization, only Jehovah's Witnesses have any scriptural hope of being saved. WT Sept 1989
Leaving A Religion To Give God All The Glory.
Why are Jehovah's Witnesses leaving? They're leaving to give God all the glory instead of a handful of men in NYC.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe it's unscriptural to honor humans to excess. They can't idolize their favorite movie star or musician. They can't look up to people as if they are special. Everyone is thought to be equals.
But there is one blatant exception that more and more Witnesses are noticing.
In harmony with the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body, Elders, and other men taking the lead are honored to excess with the reverence that should be reserved only for God.
Jehovah's Witnesses are told they should trust God's 'faithful and discreet slave', the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses completely. They are admonished to be submissive and obedient. Rebellion against the organization is thought to be the same as rebellion against God. The Watchtower has taught Jehovah's Witnesses that giving that much power to humans is wrong. It is the sin of idolatry.
•No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is 'God's organization'
•No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is God's 'faithful and discreet slave'
•Watchtower claims are opinions, not 'the truth'. Matthew 7:26,27
No where in the Bible does it say that the Watchtower is God's organization or his 'faithful and discreet slave class'. Read Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42. What does the Bible say? Then read what the Watchtower says about those scriptures. What do they say? Does the Watchtower accurately reflect what the Bible says? Or are they using the Bible as a tool to trick readers into believing they have the authority of God?
If you read only the Bible and are a Witness, you may be shocked to discover that the meaning of faithful and discreet slave parable is unknown! It is a false assumption to say that 'the master' in the parable is Jesus. No one knows who the master is or who the slave is, or what Jesus was referring to.
In spite of this, the Governing Body says they represent God's 'faithful and discreet slave'. WT June 15, 2009, Article:'The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body'
A faith built on false assumptions instead of truth will not withstand heavy rains and wind. Matthew 7:26,27; That's why Jehovah's Witnesses are leaving their religion.
If you're a JW you can believe whatever you want, but if the Bible is your only authority, then you know that Jesus is the path to salvation, NOT the religion you belong to. Jesus couldn't care less what church you go to, or how many holidays you didn't celebrate. Read the words of Jesus in the Bible and you'll find this to be true.
Keeping strict rules and being obedient to church officials, in order to earn everlasting life, would be virtually the same as worshipping a false god and putting humans first ahead of God. We could rattle off a bunch of scriptures, but if you're a JW, you already know what it says about bowing down to any man made statue or symbol for salvation other than the one and only true God.
If you're a Witness, we urge you to read an unbiased Bible translation without any Watchtower literature. Do not put your trust in man. Put your trust only in God. Don't let any human or human organization tell you they are God's channel of communication. They are not. If you are an adult, do not obey humans and put your trust in them. Let Jesus be your only authority. Matthew 28:18,19. Do not have other Gods. Pray to God. Ask for wisdom. He will answer all your prayers.

Now THIS is a Good post!
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34418 May 14, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
The Society has almost no growth in lands where the internet is widespread, while it enjoys substantial growth in lands where the internet is virtually unavailable. Obviously, the fact that there is a clear correlation does not mean that the internet is the ONLY factor making life difficult for the Society in wealthy/developed countries. However, when you think about it carefully, it certainly can’t be helping matters. The internet is strewn with information that discredits, embarrasses and refutes the Watch Tower Society and its teachings. This surely cannot go unnoticed by interested ones.
Once the door is closed, you can’t prevent people from investigating witness beliefs online
To illustrate, imagine you are called upon by Witnesses who leave a Bible Teach book with you and offer to call again. You are excited by the title and read through the book quickly in just one evening. You can’t believe that the Bible has just been explained so clearly when you thought it was complicated to understand. Still, you are wary that people are often trying to trick one another, and you feel it would be worth “googling” Jehovah’s Witnesses to see what people have to say about them. After all, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
On the first page of Google, aside from the official Society web pages, you see at least two websites that are critical. You investigate more deeply and soon realise that Jehovah’s Witnesses, however well-intentioned they are, are simply another cult with an array of false teachings and some truly shocking scandals, even involving the mishandling of child abuse. What would you do the next time the Witnesses call? You would likely hand back their book and say that you are not interested before closing the door on them. Does that scenario sound familiar?
Perhaps you have had a bible study or return visit who has quickly and inexplicably gone “cold” on you. This is likely the reason why! Objective information about the Society and its many mistakes and scandals is all over the internet. It takes very little effort to find it. Now we are starting to notice the problem being reflected in the growth statistic at the bottom of each report. If things continue at their current trend, it likely won’t be too long before the growth figure hits 0%, or even falls into the negative.
In fact, when you study the 2012 report closely, you realize that despite the Witnesses’ best efforts more than 45 lands reported an actual reduction in publisher numbers last year. These countries included: Pakistan (-6.1%), Slovakia (-0.8%), Finland (-0.7%), New Zealand (-0.7%), Hungary (-0.6%), Estonia (-0.6%), Uruguay (-0.05), Poland (-0.4%), Netherlands (-0.4%), Japan (-0.3%) and Germany (-0.1%) among others.
It therefore isn’t inconceivable that the first “minus growth” report is just around the corner. However, if the figures were to ever get so bad, I have strong reason to believe that the Society would simply stop printing the full annual report altogether. Why do I say this?
For the year of 2012 these are the Grand Totals of...

Branches of Jehovah’s Witnesses 96
Number of Lands Reporting 239
Total Congregations 111,719
Worldwide Memorial Attendance 19,013,343
Peak of Publishers in Kingdom Service 7,782,346
Total Number of People Baptized 268,777
Average Home Bible Studies Each Month 8,759,988

In 1962 there were only 1 Million Publishers, today there are close to 8 million, just watch us grow.
2013 Yearbook

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34419 May 14, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you read my post before responding to it????
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are hallucinating if you think Acts 11:7-12 says anything of the sort.
And you have a misunderstanding of Eph. 2. Maybe you should get a Bible and read the chapter for yourself.
Read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/ ...
What is the point of the chapter?
You cultists are always taking things out of context.
Such misunderstandings keep you in your cell where Satan wants you.
==========
BTW, God did not tell the Jews not to eat (etc) pork because it could make them sick. God was very specific as to why they should not eat such thing. He used words like 'detestable' and 'unclean'(see Leviticus 11).
If his REAL motivation was because they could make them sick then why did God have to LIE to his people?
BTW, Leviticus uses the same words in describing homosexual acts.
Unclean and detestable are common words back then, and yes it does describle food that way for a very good reason, to make sure they understood not to eat i, t as he feels they are detestable and unclean to eat.. Today we probably wouldn't use words like that because we have other words that we use to describe foods that are unclean and or detestable, like deplorable, unfit for human consumption, this stuff will kill ya and on and on.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34420 May 15, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
For the year of 2012 these are the Grand Totals of...
Branches of Jehovah’s Witnesses 96
Number of Lands Reporting 239
Total Congregations 111,719
Worldwide Memorial Attendance 19,013,343
Peak of Publishers in Kingdom Service 7,782,346
Total Number of People Baptized 268,777
Average Home Bible Studies Each Month 8,759,988
In 1962 there were only 1 Million Publishers, today there are close to 8 million, just watch us grow.
2013 Yearbook

You are looking at the past. Right now the JWs are suffering from more defectors than they are gaining converts. Not to mention a large and growing portion of internal descenders within the cult. Eventually there will be enough of these to find a voice and power within the cult. Reform is coming. It just cannot come quick enough.

By the way, where does Jesus refer to his Disciples as "publishers"?

Pushers would be a better term. The Cult offers the same up side as the drug culture; a quick high and friends to support your next high.

The drug culture is just more honest about what they are.

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