Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34355 May 13, 2013
Final part,


Error #2: The Holy Spirit Is Not a Divine Person

A second shocking error that dominates this volume is the author’s vigorous contention that the Holy Spirit is not a person. Hear him:


“There is absolutely no spiritual, psychological, theological, nor just plain logical advantage in perceiving the Holy Spirit to be an individual personal entity separate from the Father and his Son”(198).

Mr. Pribble argues that just as he has a “spirit,” which is not a separate person from himself, even so, God has a “spirit” which is not a separate person from himself (199).

One must now suppose that God, who is spirit (Jn. 4:24), and who, according to the author, gave birth to the spirit-Son, himself also possesses another spirit, that is not a personal entity, but is only some sort of impersonal “God” substance. What a tangled discombobulation this is. And what does this say about the author’s concept of his own “spirit”?

A host of Bible passages, that speak of the Holy Spirit’s independent activity, e.g., speaking, teaching, guiding, etc., are manipulated so as to surrender to the author’s personal ideology with reference to what he calls “the doctrine of the Trinity.”

On can hardly conclude this brief notice without a couple of rhetorical inquiries.

(1) How does one, who entertains such views, occupy the pulpits of several churches throughout the country over a span of many years? Such ideas do not spring into existence overnight.

(2) How does one secure a Christian publishing company that will lend itself to the distribution of such anti-biblical concepts?

While the word “Trinity” is not employed specifically in the Bible, the concept of three separate Persons, each of whom possesses the full nature of deity, is there. And a denial of such — to any degree — constitutes a most serious error.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34356 May 13, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> Finally, something that I agree with 100%. I urge you to go to the nearest Church of Christ and get right with God by becoming a christian, take care.
I have been to quite a few of Christendom churches, and they have all taught the same doctrine. Never believed it even when I was a child, so no thanks, I have found the truth.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34357 May 13, 2013
1.Regarding the Trinity A."Never was there a more deceptive doctrine advanced than that of the trinity. It could have originated only in one mind, and that the mind of Satan the Devil." Reconciliation, 1928, p. 101.
B."The doctrine, in brief, is that there are three gods in one:'God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost,; all three equal in power, substance and eternity." (Let God Be True, 1952, p. 100, here they misrepresent the doctrine of the Trinity.)
C."Ask the student,'How many Jehovah's are there?' Let him answer. The answer is obvious that there is only one Jehovah...If he is one Jehovah, then could he be three gods, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, as the Trinitarians teach?" (Watchtower, April 1, 1970, p. 210, again, the Watchtower misrepresents the doctrine of the Trinity.)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34358 May 13, 2013
2.Regarding Jesus A."The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Yes we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God. The word 'God' signifies a 'mighty one,' and our Lord was indeed a mighty one. So it is stated in the first two verses of the gospel of John. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father..." (Watchtower, July 15, 1898, p. 216). i.JW's often say that the light is getting brighter. In other words, they have more and more information and can disregard earlier WT quotes if need be. Then ask, "If the WT has changed over the years such that the WT has contradicted itself, then how do you know it won't continue to change and in the future contradict what you believe now? Does God make mistakes? No. Do his prophets EVER make a mistake when speaking for God? No. Yet, the WT claims to speak for God and yet makes mistakes... How, then, can you or I trust the WT?" a.IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it." (Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197.)(See Deut. 18:21.)
b."Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book," (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, p. 402).

B.As Jesus cleansed the temple in Jerusalem three and a half years after he was anointed with God's spirit to be King, so three and a half years after he received kingly power in the autumn of 1914 he came to the spiritual temple as Jehovah's Messenger and began to cleanse it. So this occurred in the spring of 1918. That marked the beginning of the period of judgment and inspection of his spirit-begotten followers," (Let God be True, p. 202).

3.Miscellaneous A."This seventh 'day' on which God desisted from his work toward our planet is not to be understood as a 24-hour day. This seventh day follows upon the preceding six days of creation. The Scriptural evidence is to the effect that all those six preceding days were much longer than 24 hours each... each of those days was 7,000 years long. Man being created toward the close of the sixth day, he was put on earth toward the end of 42,000 years of earth's preparation," (Let God Be True, p. 168).
B."The man Adam is not included in those ransomed. Why not? Because he was a willful sinner, was justly sentenced to death, and died deservedly, and God would not reverse his just judgment and give Adam life. He had a perfect life, and this he deliberately forfeited," (Let God be True, p. 119).
C."Accepting the message of salvation and devoting ourselves to God through Christ and being baptized in water is only the beginning of our exercise of faith. It is only the beginning of our obedience to God. It sets us on the way to everlasting life, but it does not mean our final salvation," (This Means Everlasting Life, p. 181).
D."Thus it is seen that the serpent (the Devil) is the one that originated the doctrine of the inherent immortality of human souls. This doctrine is the main one that the Devil has used down through the ages to deceive the people and hold them in bondage. In fact, it is the foundation doctrine of false religion," (Let God be True, p. 74-75).


Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34359 May 13, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>I have been to quite a few of Christendom churches, and they have all taught the same doctrine. Never believed it even when I was a child, so no thanks, I have found the truth.
Hey student, hope all is well. As a christian I can only put out the info and pray that the truth will be accepted. I hope you know how very much I appreciate your thoughts on the bible, as I very much do.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34360 May 13, 2013
Mr. Pribble argues that just as he has a “spirit,” which is not a separate person from himself, even so, God has a “spirit” which is not a separate person from himself (199).

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34361 May 13, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>I have been to quite a few of Christendom churches, and they have all taught the same doctrine. Never believed it even when I was a child, so no thanks, I have found the truth.
No other church, not one worships as we do, not one. We are the only church that worships according to the bible, no other church worships as we do. We worship every Lords day and partake of the Lord's supper every Lord's day and give and sing only in worship on the Lord's day. We also believe as the bible says, that baptism is essential unto salvation. Our church is set up according to the bible, elders, deacons, teachers and preachers. We are non denominational. Our church was established in 33 AD on the day of the Pentecost.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34365 May 13, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you eat pork?
Absolutely, because now in the new testament era and also the cleaning of certain animals are vastly different than it was in the old testament times being the reason why it wasn't safe to eat certain animals, such as a pig. Camel Chameleon Coney Cuckow Eagle Ferret Hare Hawk Heron Lapwing Lizard Mole Osprey Ossifrage Owl Pelican Raven Stork Swan Swine¹ Weasel Vulture Abalone Alligators Ant Ape Bear Cat Cheetah Clam Cockatoo Crab Crayfish Crow Dingo Dinosaur Dog Dolphins Donkey Eagle Echidna Eel Elephant Fox Gecko Gibbon Gorilla Hedgehog Jellyfish Kangaroo Lion Lobster Lynx Magpie Monkey Mussel Ostrich Parrot Penguin Platypus Prawns Rat Scallop Seahorse Seal Shark Shrimp Squid Squirrel Snake Starfish Tiger Turtle Wallaby Whales Wombat Wolf Worm Zebra. Acts 10:14-15 14“No, Lord,” Peter declared.“I have never eaten anything that our "JEWISH" laws have declared impure and unclean.b”

15But the voice spoke again:“Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.”
So eat up and enjoy my friend.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34366 May 13, 2013
yon wrote:
I haven't the time to read all this. Let's get back to how you get Jehovah out of YHWH.
Jehovah's Witnesses falsely claim that bibles remove YHWH (Tetragrammaton) from the Old Testament. The truth is, they have added the divine name in the New Testament where it is never found in the original Greek manuscripts, and blamed the Bible as being corrupted from the original where YHWH was once found. Rather than trashing their false doctrine, they trash the Bible! In one of the most spectacular admissions in religious history, the JW's actually admit that Jehovah is wrong: "Yahweh ... is admittedly superior to Jehovah.'The wrong spelling Jehovah OCCURS since about 1100' and then it offers its arguments in favor of Yahweh as the correct and original pronunciation." Let Your Name Be Sanctified, Jehovah's Witnesses, p 16-20)
Even worse, they admit that the only reason they keep using it is to please men, not God: "While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yahweh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it Since the 14th century. New World Translation, Jehovah's Witnesses, foreword p 25) Why would the name God gave to His people not be "Christians" since Acts 11:26 says, "The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch"? Why is the name "Jehovah's Witness" found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name "Jehovah's Witness". Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses"?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34367 May 13, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses are trained to lie:

This is what was taught 15 years before Fox lost his family because the Watchtower organization allowed them to be kidnapped by their mother.

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)
1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34368 May 13, 2013
Serving in the Military approved and condoned

1898 "Notice that there is no command in the Scriptures against military service" (Watchtower, Aug. 1, 1898, pg. 231).

1903 "There could be nothing against our conscience in going into the army. Wherever we would go we could take the Lord with us, the Captain of our salvation, and wherever we would go we could find opportunities to serve him and his cause" (THE WATCHTOWER, April 15, 1903, pg. 120).

To bad they decided to change a good ideal.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34369 May 13, 2013
The Space Shuttle is impossible?

1943 "Man on earth can no more get rid of these demonic `heavens'(the organization of wicked spirits) than man can by airplane or rockets or other means get up above the air envelope which is about our earthly globe and in which man breathes." (The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943, p. 285)

The amount of mistakes they make are beyond comprehension,

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34370 May 13, 2013
How many times have Jehovah's witnesses predicted Armageddon through the course of history?

In:Jehovah's Witnesses







Answer:

Over ten. Specific dates where given in 1875, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, and 1975. Of course prior to the 1930's they were known as Bible Students. So technically Jehovah's Witnesses only did in 1941 and 1975. However JW's do accept the Bible Students as being the same organization. The reverse is not true however. In addition they have made predictions relating to a 'this generation'. While not giving a specific date, they have hinted at the mid nineties and more recently they extended that by a few years.
----------

The Jehovah's Witness have published several "predictions" concerning Armageddon.

** 1914 Jehovah's Witnesses predicted that this year would be the end of the human affairs and the beginning of God's rulership on earth. All Jehovah's Witnesses at the time would have had to believe likewise because that is what was printed in the Watchtower publications.( See 'The Time is at Hand 1907 pages 76-78)

** 1925 Judge Rutherford (2nd President of the Watchtower Society) said that "Millions [living at the time] would never die". The sweeping statement was later ( ie. after 1925) acknowledged by the Jehovah's Witnesses as based on an inaccurate understanding of bible prophecy and corrected.

1925 Jehovah's Witnesses believed was the time for Abraham etc to be resurrected on earth.

A number of other dates are worthy of note ...

**1874 & 1878 The Jehovah's Witness (along with other religious groups) speculated as to the significance of these years. Theses speculations were in retrospect (made AFTER the dates sited) so are not strictly speaking predictions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_reli...

**1975 The Watchtower announced that this year marked the end of 6,000 years of human history but none of their literature ever stated categorically that this year would mark the "end of the world"rather it was stated that this was a"possibility". Instead it was very strongly implied. See the links below re 1975.

**The Generation of 1914. Jehovah's Witnesses said for about 50 years that Armageddon would come within the lifetime of people that saw the year 1914. This was stated as being 'Jesus's own words. In 1995 this was changed as that generation had all but ceased to exist. The latest prediction is that Armageddon will come within the lifetime of the generation of people that saw the generation of people that saw the year 1914. See link about generation teaching below.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34371 May 13, 2013
Isaiah 45:5 -
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no God."
"I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God"
"I am the LORD, and there is no other. There is no other God besides me"
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; there is no God but Me."
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."

Exodus 20:2, 3 -
"I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 You shall have no other gods before me."

Galatians 3:20 -
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

John 17:3 - "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Jehovah is the only true God, and there is no other.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34372 May 13, 2013
Jehovah’s Name In the Christian Greek Scriptures.

In view of this evidence it seems most unusual to find that the extant manuscript copies of the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures do not contain the divine name in its full form.

The name therefore is also absent from most translations of the so-called New Testament. Yet the name does appear in these sources in its abbreviated form at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, in the expression “Alleluia” or “Hallelujah”(KJ, Dy, JB, AS, RS).

The call there recorded as spoken by spirit sons of God to “Praise Jah, you people!”(NW) makes clear that the divine name was not obsolete; it was as vital and pertinent as it had been in the pre-Christian period. Why, then, the absence of its full form from the Christian Greek Scriptures?
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34373 May 13, 2013
Why is the divine name in its full form not in any available ancient manuscript of the Christian Greek Scriptures?

The argument long presented was that the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures made their quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures on the basis of the Septuagint, and that, since this version substituted Kyrios or Theos for the Tetragrammaton, these writers did not use the name Jehovah.

As has been shown, this argument is no longer valid. Commenting on the fact that the oldest fragments of the Greek Septuagint do contain the divine name in its Hebrew form, Dr. P. Kahle says:“We now know that the Greek Bible text [the Septuagint] as far as it was written by Jews for Jews did not translate the Divine name by kyrios, but the Tetragrammaton written with Hebrew or Greek letters was retained in such MSS [manuscripts]. It was the Christians who replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios, when the divine name written in Hebrew letters was not understood any more.”(The Cairo Geniza, Oxford, 1959, p. 222)

When did this change in the Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures take place?

It evidently took place in the centuries following the death of Jesus and his apostles. In Aquila’s Greek version, dating from the second century C.E., the Tetragrammaton still appeared in Hebrew characters. Around 245 C.E., the noted scholar Origen produced his Hexapla, a six-column reproduction of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures:(1) in their original Hebrew and Aramaic, accompanied by (2) a transliteration into Greek, and by the Greek versions of (3) Aquila,(4) Symmachus,(5) the Septuagint, and (6) Theodotion.

On the evidence of the fragmentary copies now known, Professor W. G. Waddell says:“In Origen’s Hexapla ... the Greek versions of Aquila, Symmachus, and LXX [Septuagint] all represented JHWH by &#928;&#921;&#928; &#921;; in the second column of the Hexapla the Tetragrammaton was written in Hebrew characters.”(The Journal of Theological Studies, Oxford, Vol. XLV, 1944, pp. 158, 159)

Others believe the original text of Origen’s Hexapla used Hebrew characters for the Tetragrammaton in all its columns. Origen himself stated that “in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

As late as the fourth century C.E., Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate, says in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings:“And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton [i.e., &#1497;&#1492;&#14 93;&#1492;], in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

In a letter written at Rome, 384 C.E., Jerome states:“The ninth [name of God] is the Tetragrammaton, which they considered [anekphoneton], that is, unspeakable, and it is written with these letters, Iod, He, Vau, He.

Certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find it in Greek books, were accustomed to read &#928;&#921;&#928; &#921; [Greek letters corresponding to the Roman letters PIPI].”—Papyrus Grecs Bibliques, by F. Dunand, Cairo, 1966, p. 47, ftn. 4.

The so-called Christians, then, who “replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios” in the Septuagint copies, were not the early disciples of Jesus. They were persons of later centuries, when the foretold apostasy was well developed and had corrupted the purity of Christian teachings.—2Th 2:3; 1Ti 4:1.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34374 May 13, 2013
God's name Jehovah was used by Jesus and his disciples.

Thus, in the days of Jesus and his disciples the divine name very definitely appeared in copies of the Scriptures, both in Hebrew manuscripts and in Greek manuscripts.

Did Jesus and his disciples use the divine name in speech and in writing?

In view of Jesus’ condemnation of Pharisaic traditions (Mt 15:1-9), it would be highly unreasonable to conclude that Jesus and his disciples let Pharisaic ideas (such as are recorded in the Mishnah) govern them in this matter. Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

He stated:“I have come in the name of my Father”(Joh 5:43); he taught his followers to pray:“Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified”(Mt 6:9); his works, he said, were done “in the name of my Father”(Joh 10:25); and, in prayer on the night of his death, he said he had made his Father’s name manifest to his disciples and asked,“Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name”(Joh 17:6, 11, 12, 26).

In view of all of this, when Jesus quoted the Hebrew Scriptures or read from them he certainly used the divine name, Jehovah.(Compare Mt 4:4, 7, 10 with De 8:3; 6:16; 6:13; also Mt 22:37 with De 6:5; and Mt 22:44 with Ps 110:1; as well as Lu 4:16-21 with Isa 61:1, 2.)

Logically, Jesus’ disciples, including the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures, would follow his example in this.

Why, then, is the name absent from the extant manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures or so-called New Testament? Evidently because by the time those extant copies were made (from the third century C.E. onward) the original text of the writings of the apostles and disciples had been altered.

Thus later copyists undoubtedly replaced the divine name in Tetragrammaton form with Kyrios and Theos.(PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 324) This is precisely what the facts show was done in later copies of the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34375 May 13, 2013
Restoration of the divine name in translation.

Recognizing that this must have been the case, some translators have included the name Jehovah in their renderings of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

The Emphatic Diaglott, a 19th-century translation by Benjamin Wilson, contains the name Jehovah a number of times, particularly where the Christian writers quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures.

But as far back as the 14th century the Tetragrammaton had already begun to be used in translations of the Christian Scriptures into Hebrew, beginning with the translation of Matthew into Hebrew that was incorporated in the work &#700;E&#8242;ven bochan by Shem-Tob ben Isaac Ibn Shaprut. Wherever Matthew quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures, this translation used the Tetragrammaton in each case of its occurrence.

Many other Hebrew translations have since followed the same practice.

As to the properness of this course, note the following acknowledgment by R. B. Girdlestone, late principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. The statement was made before manuscript evidence came to light showing that the Greek Septuagint originally contained the name Jehovah. He said:“If that [Septuagint] version had retained the word [Jehovah], or had even used one Greek word for Jehovah and another for Adonai, such usage would doubtless have been retained in the discourses and arguments of the N. T. Thus our Lord, in quoting the 110th Psalm, instead of saying,‘The Lord said unto my Lord,’ might have said,‘Jehovah said unto Adoni.’”

Proceeding on this same basis (which evidence now shows to have been actual fact) he adds:“Supposing a Christian scholar were engaged in translating the Greek Testament into Hebrew, he would have to consider, each time the word &#922;&#973;&#961; &#953;&#959;&#962; occurred, whether there was anything in the context to indicate its true Hebrew representative; and this is the difficulty which would arise in translating the N. T. into all languages if the title Jehovah had been allowed to stand in the [Septuagint translation of the] O. T. The Hebrew Scriptures would be a guide in many passages: thus, wherever the expression ‘the angel of the Lord’ occurs, we know that the word Lord represents Jehovah; a similar conclusion as to the expression ‘the word of the Lord’ would be arrived at, if the precedent set by the O. T. were followed; so also in the case of the title ‘the Lord of Hosts.’ Wherever, on the contrary, the expression ‘My Lord’ or ‘Our Lord’ occurs, we should know that the word Jehovah would be inadmissible, and Adonai or Adoni would have to be used.”(Synonyms of the Old Testament, 1897, p. 43)

It is on such a basis that translations of the Greek Scriptures (mentioned earlier) containing the name Jehovah have proceeded.

Outstanding, however, in this regard is the New World Translation, used throughout this work, in which the divine name in the form “Jehovah” appears 237 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

As has been shown, there is sound basis for this.(it-2 Jehovah pp. 9-10)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34380 May 13, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
Isaiah 45:5 -
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no God."
"I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God"
"I am the LORD, and there is no other. There is no other God besides me"
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; there is no God but Me."
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."
Exodus 20:2, 3 -
"I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 You shall have no other gods before me."
Galatians 3:20 -
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."
John 17:3 - "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Jehovah is the only true God, and there is no other.

Galatians 3:20

New Living Translation (NLT)


20 Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.
Name of your bible please.

Since: Feb 13

Lumberton, TX

#34381 May 13, 2013
Blessings
To The Missionary Man
I am a independent thinking man, and It is good that you go to scriptures to find answers.(John 1:1,14;8:58;10:30) Are good scriptures. I would like to call your attention to (John 1:2;1:18) these two scriptures will make you think outside the box. One last scripture (John 3:18) I'm enclosing this final scripture because I'd like to have further discussion with you

Blessing to you and love

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