Student

Oregon City, OR

#34230 May 9, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
Sadly the Jehovah Witnesses are one of the most confused people when it comes to comprehending the bible. Their interpretations are easily seen to be so far off from what the bible says. They have on so many occassions attempted to tell the world that on several different dates that the Lord was coming. The worst was in 1975 when members again were told the Lord was coming and were told to sell there posessions and not to buy anything or to apply for college and on and on. This was the worst ever as many committed suicide, didn't have jobs because most had quit their job because the Lord was coming. They believe that blood transfusion is a sin, which it isn't, they believe in a new earth and only 144,000 will be on it. This is a tragic case of total ignorance of the bible.
Where have you gotten your information? This is a bunch of lies.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#34231 May 9, 2013
"Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus Christ." No they aren't!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#34232 May 9, 2013
FARKEL wrote:
Jehovah in scripture…
Isaiah 47:11 (Mischief is actually the same as jehovah)
This Hebrew word is “hovah” and means
ruin or mischief. It is where the name
Jehovah comes from, which cannot be the
Father's name as there is no letter 'J' in
Hebrew, and Yahweh is not Elohim of
mischief. Jehovah is a false combination of
taking the four letters for the name Yahweh,
Y H W H and putting in the vowels for
Adonai. Jewish Rabbis started this tradition
during second temple times as they began to
think the sacred name YAHWEH was too
holy to pronounce. So not to inadvertently
pronounce the name they changed the
vowel pointing in the Masoretic text with
the vowels of Adonai.
Well, that's very interesting.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34233 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
1. GIFT OF TONGUES CEASES….Paul goes on, in the thirteenth chapter of his letter to the Corinthians, to show them the lowly position of tongues as compared with more important matters, especially the “surpassing way” of love. Even those blessed with the gift of tongues “become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal” if they do not exercise love, he explained.(1 Cor. 12:31; 13:1) And to emphasize the importance and permanence of love as compared to the miraculous gifts of the spirit, he wrote:“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8
On the basis of Paul’s words here, there should be no question that the miraculous gifts of the spirit were to pass away. But when? It is argued by some that, since Paul said that ‘tongues are a sign to the unbelievers,’ they would not pass away until unbelievers passed away, that is, until there were no longer any unbelievers.(1 Cor. 14:22) But is that the point Paul is making in this thirteenth chapter? No, it is not. In this chapter he does not associate the cessation of tongues with unbelievers, but, rather, he is comparing the temporariness of the gifts of the spirit with the permanence of love; and he links the transitoriness of these gifts, not with unbelievers, but with the infancy of Christianity.

This is called "rationalization".

Obviously it is not meant to convince others as it is far to superfluous, tangential, spurious and frankly weak to do so. It is to maintain the belief of those who already believe and WANT to believe.

This is typical of cult propaganda just as the Watchtower is typical of cult behavior and authority.

So very typical.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34234 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
2. As I have posted before the Hebrew original-language words “evedh” rendered “slave” or “servant” was used in referring to servants, or worshipers, of Jehovah generally (1Ki 8:36; 2Ki 10:23) and, more specifically, to special representatives of God, such as Moses.(Jos 1:1, 2; 24:29; 2Ki 21:10)

Actually servant is not a good translation of Evedh and "slave" is an abysmal translation.

There is no good, one word, translation for this concept. It implies something joined together but not equal.'Brothers'(older and younger), TEACHER - PUPIL or disciple, spouse (at least in biblical times), yoked together, bound by blood, oath, or permanent commitment....

A prophet could be described as a evedh to God. Messiah would clearly be evedh to God.

A servant could be a evedh to the master, but this would be more like a follower, NOT as SLAVE!

There is mutual commitment but again, not on equal footing.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34235 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
3. Jesus Christ : The only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the firstborn of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adam’s offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Father’s original purpose for the earth.

What is a "Jehovah"? Sounds like something someone made up.

Oh, that's right, THEY DID!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34236 May 9, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
And how often are dubs regaled with of the dangers of "independent thinking" and how it leads to apostasy? And you're supposed to make the mental connection that it's a lead pipe cinch because those anonymous men in Brooklyn who write all those articles are the faithful and discreet slave. So it must be true and are the words of God himself.

It is somewhat subtle, but dubs are actually required to hold the writing of the Watchtower ABOVE the bible.

They will all deny this, but the fact is the Watchtower puts forth all interpretation and one can only come to an understanding of the Bible through the Watchtower.

So the chain is that one comes to God through 'Jesus', to Jesus from the Bible, and the Bible through the Watchtower. They are gate keeper AND key master.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34237 May 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is called "rationalization".
Obviously it is not meant to convince others as it is far to superfluous, tangential, spurious and frankly weak to do so. It is to maintain the belief of those who already believe and WANT to believe.
This is typical of cult propaganda just as the Watchtower is typical of cult behavior and authority.
So very typical.
Read for yourself (1 Cor. 13:8)

The Scriptures show that the miraculous gifts given to first-century Christians were only temporary in nature.

“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.”(1 Cor. 13:8)

Does the Bible give any indication as to when the gifts would cease? Yes, it does.

Read for yourself the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6.

You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present. According to Acts 8:18,“through the laying on of the hands of the apostles the spirit was given.”

Logically, then, with the death of the apostles, the transmitting of the gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ceased.

The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them.(Compare Colossians 1:23)

‘But if the gifts have ceased, then what accounts for modern-day manifestations?’ some may ask.

“We are also aware that a similar phenomenon can occur under occult/demonic influence,” admitted a joint statement by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council.

Could it be possible that the modern-day gift of tongues is not from God? Admittedly, accepting this may be difficult for those who claim to have the gift.

Of the 5,000,000 adult Americans who claim to speak in tongues, 33 percent do not even believe that the Devil is a personal being and that he can influence others. Well, then, how can you know for sure from what source modern-day manifestations come?

Jesus provided the key for identifying true Christians when he declared:“Every good tree produces fine fruit.”(Matt. 7:17) w81 8/15 p. 6

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34238 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to learn HOW TO BECOME A TRUE CHRISTIAN goto www.jw.org and download this book called “WHAT DOES THE BIBLE Really TEACH?

ROTFLMFAO!!!!

In other words if you want to be deceived by lecherous, lying, doubletalk then go to jw.org .....

Remember the old WWJD from the 80's?

The Watchtower is exactly the OPPOSITE of that.

Jesus taught "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Watchtower teaches: Reject everyone but JWs

Jesus dinned with sinners.
JW's reject sinners.

Jesus taught "seek and ye shall find"
JW's teach: "don't dare to question the Watchtower".

Jesus taught he was one with God.
JW's teach that he was the Archangel Michael.

Jesus taught salvation by grace.
JW's teach salvation by works (specifically brainwashing others).

Jesus taught there was one God.
JW's think they are all God.

Jesus taught about Hell.
JW's deny the existence of hell (Matthew 25:46).

More at:
http://www.contenderministries.org/jehovahswi...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34240 May 9, 2013
FARKEL wrote:
God's name is not "Jehovah".
The word "Jehovah" is a word invented and fabricated by a Catholic Monk.
For all the world the information is testable, where the name Jehovah comes from, available on the Internet. On Wikipedia under the search word Jehovah, we find the following information:
The name Jehovah already occurs repeatedly in the 13th Century in the Latin form of Jehovah. The Spanish monk Raymond Mantini, translated about 1270 different parts of the Bible from the Hebrew. In his manuscripts is on the right side the Hebrew text and on the left the Latin with Iehovah.
Cardinal Nikolaus of Kues used the Tetragrammaton vocalized as Jehovah in several of his works, 1428, in his Sermon In Principio Erat Verbum.
Petrus Galatinus published in the year 1518 his work "De Arcnis catholicae veritatis".
As William Tyndale, translated the Pentateuch 1530, he erroneously transferred the Tetragrammaton by using the fabricated word Jehovah.
This information tell us:
The name Jehovah was only formed in the Middle Ages in its current form - well, actually invented!
The creators of the name Jehovah were Catholic monks!
The creation of the name Jehovah was willful!
The name Jehovah is the work of man!
Anyone who worships this name turns to a human invention!
Anyone who says this name would be in the original texts - is lying!

Nice post.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34246 May 9, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses reject Babylon’s blasphemous doctrines as taught in the false religions of the world. We render worship to the one true God, Jehovah, through his Son, who became “a propitiatory sacrifice” for the sins not only of anointed Christians but of the whole world of mankind.(1 John 2:2)

We, who since 1914 have been living in “the Lord’s day” and at this time of divine judgment, rejoice in the grandest of all privileges, that of serving the Sovereign Lord Jehovah under his King of kings, Jesus Christ.(Revelation 1:10) As JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, we testify that:

(1) WE ABHOR the reproach that Babylon the Great, and Christendom in particular, has cast upon the name of the one true and living God, Jehovah. For our part, WE AFFIRM wholeheartedly, in the words of Revelation 4:11:“You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power.”

(2) WE ABHOR Christendom’s adherence to Babylonish teachings, notably those of a triune god, the human soul’s immortality, eternal torment in hell, a fiery purgatory, and worship of images—such as the Madonna and the cross. In line with Revelation 22:18, 19, WE FIRMLY ABIDE by God’s written Word and all that it contains.

(3) WE ABHOR anti-God philosophies and practices, so common in Christendom, such as evolution, blood transfusions, abortions, lying, greed, and dishonesty. In our worship and way of life, WE WILL HONOR our Creator, Jehovah God, the Almighty, whose ways are described at Revelation 15:3 as “righteous and true.”

(4) WE ABHOR Christendom’s failure to heed Jesus’ messages to the seven congregations at Revelation chapters 2 and 3 in such matters as sectarianism, idolatry, fornication, the Jezebel influence, lukewarmness, and lack of watchfulness. For our part, WE WILL HEAR AND OBEY what “the spirit says to the congregations.”

(5) WE ABHOR the immorality and permissiveness in Christendom and among its clergy, and we welcome Jehovah’s clear judgment stated at Revelation 21:8 that those who continue in their filth—fornicators, liars, and suchlike—will be utterly destroyed. WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT Bible standards on sex, marriage, and family life.

(6) WE ABHOR the centuries-long spiritual prostitution of the clergy of Babylon the Great in conniving with worldly rulers to gain power, wealth, and oppressive dominance over the common people. WE ARE RESOLVED to help honesthearted ones to obey the angel’s call at Revelation 18:4:“Get out of her, my people.”

(7) WE ABHOR the massive bloodguilt resulting from over 100 million lives sacrificed in war in this century alone, largely attributable to the great harlot’s fornication with the political powers. WE REJOICE that the appointed time is near for God to execute judicial punishment on Babylon the Great, as clearly stated at Revelation 18:21-24.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, WE COUNT IT A JOY AND A PRIVILEGE to announce to the world that in 1914 “the kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ.”(Revelation 11:15)

WE ARE RESOLVED to move forward fearlessly in making known Jehovah’s declared judgments on Babylon the Great and in warning of the imminence of God’s war of Armageddon.

WE ARE DETERMINED to echo, in a loud voice and “to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,” the glad tidings that “a new heaven and a new earth” are at hand for the blessing of obedient mankind.(Revelation 14:6; 21:1)

WE REJOICE that as a result of this proclamation, a great crowd of more than seven million from all nations is now united with us around the globe. Along with the angel flying in midheaven, all of us declare:“Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”(Revelation 14:7) w89 4/15 pp. 18, 19
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34247 May 9, 2013
Jehovah's Witness reject Babylon’s blasphemous doctrines as taught in the false religions of the world. We render worship to the one true God, Jehovah, through his Son, who became “a propitiatory sacrifice” for the sins not only of anointed Christians but of the whole world of mankind.(1 John 2:2)

We, who since 1914 have been living in “the Lord’s day” and at this time of divine judgment, rejoice in the grandest of all privileges, that of serving the Sovereign Lord Jehovah under his King of kings, Jesus Christ.(Revelation 1:10) As JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, we testify that:

(1) WE ABHOR the reproach that Babylon the Great, and Christendom in particular, has cast upon the name of the one true and living God, Jehovah. For our part, WE AFFIRM wholeheartedly, in the words of Revelation 4:11:“You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power.”

(2) WE ABHOR Christendom’s adherence to Babylonish teachings, notably those of a triune god, the human soul’s immortality, eternal torment in hell, a fiery purgatory, and worship of images—such as the Madonna and the cross. In line with Revelation 22:18, 19, WE FIRMLY ABIDE by God’s written Word and all that it contains.

(3) WE ABHOR anti-God philosophies and practices, so common in Christendom, such as evolution, blood transfusions, abortions, lying, greed, and dishonesty. In our worship and way of life, WE WILL HONOR our Creator, Jehovah God, the Almighty, whose ways are described at Revelation 15:3 as “righteous and true.”

(4) WE ABHOR Christendom’s failure to heed Jesus’ messages to the seven congregations at Revelation chapters 2 and 3 in such matters as sectarianism, idolatry, fornication, the Jezebel influence, lukewarmness, and lack of watchfulness. For our part, WE WILL HEAR AND OBEY what “the spirit says to the congregations.”

(5) WE ABHOR the immorality and permissiveness in Christendom and among its clergy, and we welcome Jehovah’s clear judgment stated at Revelation 21:8 that those who continue in their filth—fornicators, liars, and suchlike—will be utterly destroyed. WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT Bible standards on sex, marriage, and family life.

(6) WE ABHOR the centuries-long spiritual prostitution of the clergy of Babylon the Great in conniving with worldly rulers to gain power, wealth, and oppressive dominance over the common people. WE ARE RESOLVED to help honesthearted ones to obey the angel’s call at Revelation 18:4:“Get out of her, my people.”

(7) WE ABHOR the massive bloodguilt resulting from over 100 million lives sacrificed in war in this century alone, largely attributable to the great harlot’s fornication with the political powers. WE REJOICE that the appointed time is near for God to execute judicial punishment on Babylon the Great, as clearly stated at Revelation 18:21-24.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, WE COUNT IT A JOY AND A PRIVILEGE to announce to the world that in 1914 “the kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ.”(Revelation 11:15)

WE ARE RESOLVED to move forward fearlessly in making known Jehovah’s declared judgments on Babylon the Great and in warning of the imminence of God’s war of Armageddon.

WE ARE DETERMINED to echo, in a loud voice and “to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,” the glad tidings that “a new heaven and a new earth” are at hand for the blessing of obedient mankind.(Revelation 14:6; 21:1)

WE REJOICE that as a result of this proclamation, a great crowd of more than seven million from all nations is now united with us around the globe.

Along with the angel flying in midheaven, all of us declare:“Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”(Revelation 14:7) w89 4/15 pp. 18, 19

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34250 May 9, 2013
yon wrote:
It is a very cold and unforgiving organization just like the Pharisaical one condemned by Messiah who rejected him and the pronouncing of his father's name just as jw's reject the real names of G-d and his Son
How do you "know" so much about "them", yon?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34251 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Where have you gotten your information? This is a bunch of lies.
From the pamphlets they bring to people's doors years ago. you can find all of these pamphlet online, obviously there not available from the JH's because they destroyed and made sure the young people would never know of their false doctrine. s o again the info I gave shows the pamphlet # and page.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34252 May 9, 2013
yon wrote:
You see they just go into brain lock down when something comes up that demands thinking and a logical response. In this case NO DOUBTING.
They have hidden the past from the new converts and the old was are to embarrass to mention all the failed attempts to bring back the multiple times they predicted the Lord's coming. It's important to read the old one's as they try to elude from what was really said in these pages. They truly thought the Lord was coming on many occassions and especially tragic was in 1975 when many committed suicide from losing their jobs, selling their homes, etc, etc. Jehovah Witnesses are sadly considered the worst of all false religions as far as their belief being so out of norm with the bible

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34253 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
Jehovah's Witnesses reject Babylon’s blasphemous doctrines as taught in the false religions of the world. We render worship to the one true God, Jehovah,.........
......
o worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”(Revelation 14:7) w89 4/15 pp. 18, 19

Blah, blah, blah. You are not allowed to think for yourself, read the bible for yourself nor speak for yourself.

You can't even defend your false doctrines.

Are you a puppet or a brain dead zombie?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34254 May 9, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you "know" so much about "them", yon?

Maybe he knows how to read and think for himself.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34255 May 9, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> From the pamphlets they bring to people's doors years ago. you can find all of these pamphlet online, obviously there not available from the JH's because they destroyed and made sure the young people would never know of their false doctrine. s o again the info I gave shows the pamphlet # and page.

That is an old Dub trick. They are always rewriting their own history. If they say something wrong it just disappears from their on-line editions. No mention of the change is ever to be found.

Watchtowerites used to be big on Prophecy. But since they were less accurate in their predictions than a broken clock they gave it up for lint.

Here is a partial list of their false prophecy:

http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34256 May 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Read for yourself (1 Cor. 13:8)
The Scriptures show that the miraculous gifts given to first-century Christians were only temporary in nature.
“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease.”(1 Cor. 13:8)
Does the Bible give any indication as to when the gifts would cease? Yes, it does.
Read for yourself the reported cases when the gift of tongues accompanied the outpouring of holy spirit: Acts 2:1-4, 14; 10:44-48; 19:6.
You will notice that in every case one or more of the apostles of Jesus Christ were present. According to Acts 8:18,“through the laying on of the hands of the apostles the spirit was given.”
Logically, then, with the death of the apostles, the transmitting of the gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ceased.
The gift of tongues had served its purpose. It had been well established that the Christian congregation had God’s favor and backing. Moreover, Christians had grown in number and had been dispersed to many lands, carrying the “good news” with them.(Compare Colossians 1:23)
‘But if the gifts have ceased, then what accounts for modern-day manifestations?’ some may ask.
“We are also aware that a similar phenomenon can occur under occult/demonic influence,” admitted a joint statement by the Fountain Trust and the Church of England Evangelical Council.
Could it be possible that the modern-day gift of tongues is not from God? Admittedly, accepting this may be difficult for those who claim to have the gift.
Of the 5,000,000 adult Americans who claim to speak in tongues, 33 percent do not even believe that the Devil is a personal being and that he can influence others. Well, then, how can you know for sure from what source modern-day manifestations come?
Jesus provided the key for identifying true Christians when he declared:“Every good tree produces fine fruit.”(Matt. 7:17) w81 8/15 p. 6

Wow. And just when I thought you couldn't do a WORSE job of defending your cults lies...


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is called "rationalization".
Obviously it is not meant to convince others as it is far to superfluous, tangential, spurious and frankly weak to do so. It is to maintain the belief of those who already believe and WANT to believe.
This is typical of cult propaganda just as the Watchtower is typical of cult behavior and authority.
So very typical.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34257 May 9, 2013
Working for the Lord wrote:
<quoted text> They have hidden the past from the new converts and the old was are to embarrass to mention all the failed attempts to bring back the multiple times they predicted the Lord's coming. It's important to read the old one's as they try to elude from what was really said in these pages. They truly thought the Lord was coming on many occassions and especially tragic was in 1975 when many committed suicide from losing their jobs, selling their homes, etc, etc. Jehovah Witnesses are sadly considered the worst of all false religions as far as their belief being so out of norm with the bible
Our past is not hidden. I can find any publication I want. We do have libraries in our Kingdom Halls.

At the convention held in 1966 at Baltimore, Maryland, F. W. Franz gave the concluding talk. He began by saying:“Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said,‘Say, what does this 1975 mean?’” Brother Franz then referred to the many questions that had arisen as to whether the material in the new book meant that by 1975 Armageddon would be finished, and Satan would be bound.

He stated, in essence:‘It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.’

In the years following 1966, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses acted in harmony with the spirit of that counsel. However, other statements were published on this subject, and some were likely more definite than advisable. This was acknowledged in The Watchtower of March 15, 1980 (page 17). But Jehovah’s Witnesses were also cautioned to concentrate mainly on doing Jehovah’s will and not to be swept up by dates and expectations of an early salvation.

In 1975, there was disappointment when expectations regarding the start of the Millennium failed to materialize. As a result, some withdrew from the organization. Others, because they sought to subvert the faith of associates, were disfellowshipped. No doubt, disappointment over the date was a factor, but in some instances the roots went deeper. Some individuals also argued against the need to participate in the house-to-house ministry. Certain ones did not simply choose to go their own way; they became aggressive in opposing the organization with which they had been associated, and they made use of the public press and television to air their views. Nevertheless, the number who defected was relatively small. Jv (1942-1975) chap. 8 p. 104

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