Student

Oregon City, OR

#34198 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are misinterpreting the scriptures. You move from being a slave, to a friend, to a son/daughter. It's a progression in your walk with the Lord. Thus a slave does not know what his master is about, whereas a friend is aware because it is made known to them, and a son is one who is led by God's Spirit. Abraham was called a friend of God. A slave is usually one in the bondage of sin; one in need of deliverance. Since you classify yourself as a slave, then according to God's own words, you wouldn't know Him or about Him.....
Maybe if you knew the Scriptures, you would see what I have pointed out to you. Jesus was even a slave, as Philippians 2:5-8, NW says-5- Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6- who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7- No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8- More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.

Philippians 2:5-8, KJV- 5-Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6-Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7-But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8-And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The original-language words rendered “slave” or “servant” are not limited in their application to persons owned by others. The Hebrew word evedh can refer to persons owned by fellowmen.(Ge 12:16; Ex 20:17)

Or the term can designate subjects of a king (2Sa 11:21; 2Ch 10:7), subjugated peoples who paid tribute (2Sa 8:2, 6), and persons in royal service, including cupbearers, bakers, seamen, military officers, advisers, and the like, whether owned by fellowmen or not (Ge 40:20; 1Sa 29:3; 1Ki 9:27; 2Ch 8:18; 9:10; 32:9).

In respectful address, a Hebrew, instead of using the first person pronoun, would at times speak of himself as a servant (evedh) of the one to whom he was talking.(Ge 33:5, 14; 42:10, 11, 13; 1Sa 20:7, 8)

Evedh was used in referring to servants, or worshipers, of Jehovah generally (1Ki 8:36; 2Ki 10:23) and, more specifically, to special representatives of God, such as Moses.(Jos 1:1, 2; 24:29; 2Ki 21:10)

Though not a worshiper of Jehovah, one who performed a service that was in harmony with the divine will could be spoken of as God’s servant, an example being King Nebuchadnezzar.(Jer 27:6)

The Greek term doulos corresponds to the Hebrew word evedh. It is used with reference to persons owned by fellowmen (Mt 8:9; 10:24, 25; 13:27); DEVOTED SERVANTS OF GOD AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, whether human (Ac 2:18; 4:29; Ro 1:1; Ga 1:10) or angelic (Re 19:10, where the word syndoulos [fellow slave] appears); and, in a figurative sense, to persons in slavery to sin (Joh 8:34; Ro 6:16-20) or corruption (2Pe 2:19). IT-2 Slave p. 978
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34199 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
There seems to be a lot of confusion in your belief system. Either you are following God's Word or you are not. We cannot pick and choose what we want to believe or twist God's Word to suit our purposes or agenda. You have continually presented misquoted scriptures to me and your interpretations of scripture doesn't even line up with God's Word. God's Word is the FINAL AUTHORITY. By God's Word, we know if a person is speaking truth or in error. You have not, thus far, presented a good arguement to show me that a Jehovah Witnesses is a true disciple of Jesus Christ.
You’re right God’s word is the final authority. Are we not to follow Jesus Footstep’s? Do you to follow his steps closely?(1 Peter 2:21)

By calling ourselves Christians, we have indicated our desire to do just that, to follow closely in the footsteps of Christ.

Ignorance of God’s will can also prevent a person from walking in Christ’s footsteps. Paul thus admonished Ephesian Christians not to “go on walking just as the nations also walk in the unprofitableness of their minds, while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts.”(Ephesians 4:17, 18)

By means of the Kingdom-preaching work, people today are being urged to stop walking in their normal way, in ignorance of God’s purposes, in darkness mentally, motivated by insensible hearts seeking unprofitable goals. They are being encouraged to conform to the perfect example of Christ,“walking in union with him,” thus “bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ.”(Colossians 2:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 10:5)

People willing to meet this challenge are stabilized in their faith.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34200 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
"bound to absolute obedience" STUDENT, we have a free will. God wants us to come to Him freely and to obey His commands out of our love for Him. God sent Jesus to us out of His great love for us. Jesus' shed blood redeemed us from the bondage of sin and death, so we no longer have to be a slave to sin. Baptism is an outward expression (before christian witnesses) of our inward commitment to pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus to the glory and honor of God. Yes we are bought with a price, a price we could never repay.
Christian baptism required an understanding of God’s Word and an intelligent decision to present oneself to do the revealed will of God was evident when, at Pentecost, 33 C.E., the Jews and proselytes there assembled, who already had a knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures, heard Peter speak about Jesus the Messiah, with the result that 3,000 “embraced his word heartily” and “were baptized.”(Ac 2:41; 3:19–4:4; 10:34-38)

It should be noted that the one being baptized in water enters a special relationship as Jehovah’s SERVANT, to do His will. The individual does not determine what the will of God is for him, but it is God who makes the decision as to the use of the individual and the placing of such one in the framework of His purposes.

Those who undergo Christian baptism become God’s property, his slaves, to employ as he sees fit.(1Co 6:20) it 1 Baptism p. 254
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34202 May 8, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
If you knew Scripture, you wouldn't be changing the identity of Yahweh.
“Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars.
Since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-known form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation. If such a change were made, then, to be consistent, changes should be made in the spelling and pronunciation of a host of other names found in the Scriptures.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34206 May 8, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
Are etymological dictionaries no longer dictionaries?
<quoted text>
Names used to mean something and were intended to describe the person. Words with meaning can very much be translated -- so to stay true to what names mean, George should be Gardner and Noah should be Comfort. So are you going to start calling Jehovah: "The one that Causes to Become"?
But what if the name holds no meaning in the recipient language? Would it be wrong to alter the name when translating it to another language, so that the name is more familiar to the native speakers? Your ethical views aside, language at large has decided to accept it.
Name - "a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known."
You forget that you didn't choose your name to begin with. It was picked for you. And you know what? If everyone starts calling you Cksdolkeensdipl, that's your name. You can have multiple names, and if you travel to different countries, you -will-.
<quoted text>
In Hebrew. And maybe, because it could also be Yehowah, Yehwah, Yehowih, Yehwih, Yehwih, etc. etc. But you know what? In English, it isn't pronounced any of those ways, except for occasionally Yahweh.
<quoted text>
Source this opinion of yours if you want it to be seen as more than an opinion. I've never seen a Linguistics expert say this.
<quoted text>
And Kangaroo means "what?" according to the Australian urban legend. But is Kangaroo the correct word for that creature in English? Yes. Does anyone care that it was an error? Nope. Language has done dumber things, but once something is defined, regardless of it's origins, it means what it means.
<quoted text>
By you and a handful of people that want to make a mountain out of an abyss.(Rhetorically) Meanwhile, the rest of the English speaking world and most translations continue to use Jehovah, Jesus, and John.
<quoted text>
That's a very interesting opinion. So far I've only been defending the English language, but linguistics and rhetorical science is only my hobby. If you want to be wrong at Theology as well, feel free to pick a doctrine and go first.:P

All I see here is rhetoric. You were not able to defend your position nor to attack the fact that "Jehovah" is a transliteration error.

Only a brainwashed dub would defend the Watchtowerism cult.

What are the translation (transliteration)credentials of the propagandists who published the NWT (New World Travesty)?

Isn't it true that the most educated member of the group could was not fully literate (much less expert) in either Hebrew or Greek?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34207 May 8, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
I've noticed some of that tongue-in-cheek-ness. That's good. I prefer to have people who aren't easily insulted, and in turn I can take my fair share of underhanded remarks :P.
That said! I doubt God *actually* refers to himself in any human spoken language. Yahweh itself, even if it were the right pronunciation, is not adequate to express God's true name in heaven.
<quoted text>
That's fine, I'll normally point it out a second time if there was something that wasn't simply rhetorical and that I legitimately expected a response to. And as I mentioned above, Kangaroo is completely wrong as well, but it's part of our language now, and it is what it is (pun with hayah not intended).
<quoted text>
I meant Yon. Or Yoni. Don't remember his user-name and too lazy to check right now, so just gonna wing it and say Yoni.

Same two points remain. Names change (with the language), but a particular persons name does not.

"Jehovah" is no longer in wide spread usage except among zombie cult members, most of whom could not thing for themselves even BEFORE they became dub's. Which is obviously WHY they became watchtowerites. People who are well educated, intelligent and have good self esteem are more resistant to cult induction techniques.

The watchtower even discourages people from getting an education. In the early days that was because there was no point as the world was going to end any day (I know that is taking liberties with what the cult actually believes). Today it is to keep the rank and file as ignorant as possible as they ask fewer questions and are easier to control.


Ella

Rockford, MI

#34208 May 8, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text> Ignorance of God’s will can also prevent a person from walking in Christ’s footsteps. Paul thus admonished Ephesian Christians not to “go on walking just as the nations also walk in the unprofitableness of their minds, while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts.”(Ephesians 4:17, 18) By means of the Kingdom-preaching work, people today are being urged to stop walking in their normal way, in ignorance of God’s purposes, in darkness mentally, motivated by insensible hearts seeking unprofitable goals. They are being encouraged to conform to the perfect example of Christ,“walking in union with him,” thus “bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ.”(Colossians 2:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 10:5) People willing to meet this challenge are stabilized in their faith...
8:34; Ro 6:16-20) or corruption (2Pe 2:19). IT-2 Slave p. 978...
1. The apostles gave up everything to follow Jesus. For 3 yrs they followed Jesus, were taught by Him and walked in service to God. After that 3yrs, Jesus told them to wait and they would be filled with power through the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit came upon them, they spoke in other tongues...(something you have viewed as performance but what Jesus said was one of the outward evidence(s) of the infilling of the Holy Spirit) and they were ready to go and preach the gospel to all nations....We are bought with a price ONLY through the shed blood of Jesus, not by any other way. The surrender of our lives begins when we believe this in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus is the Lord and Savior of our life.

2. The Israelites became slaves due to their disobedience to God's Word. If God wanted us to remain slaves, He would have never freed the Hebrews from their bondage and slavery under Egyptian rule. He would have never sent us Jesus. He would have never given us free will to repent and choose God's way, we would only be programmed robots. The Fact is, Jesus showed us how to serve one another, not how to be a slave. Scripture tells us that when we live life to its fullest by obedience to God's Word, we are glorifying God who blessed us with His grace, mercy and love.

3. I am thoroughly persuaded by your comments that you lack the insight of who Jesus really is and why the Holy Spirit was sent in the first place. You have head knowledge that you have been taught but lack the insight and understanding of the truth and how it is applied in one's daily walk as a true follower of Christ/true sons and daughters of the Most High God.

4. We are commanded to go and preach the gospel, but you must really look at the motives behind your going door to door. The fact is you must fullfil a monthly quota to your organization which you do all in the name of service to God. This is slavery; bondage to your organization, this is not doing God's will; its fulfilling man's will under the guise of service to God. Until you completely surrender to God's will, you will not see the power of His Word in your life.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34209 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
1. The apostles gave up everything to follow Jesus. For 3 yrs they followed Jesus, were taught by Him and walked in service to God. After that 3yrs, Jesus told them to wait and they would be filled with power through the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit came upon them, they spoke in other tongues...(something you have viewed as performance but what Jesus said was one of the outward evidence(s) of the infilling of the Holy Spirit) and they were ready to go and preach the gospel to all nations....We are bought with a price ONLY through the shed blood of Jesus, not by any other way. The surrender of our lives begins when we believe this in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus is the Lord and Savior of our life.
1. GIFT OF TONGUES CEASES….Paul goes on, in the thirteenth chapter of his letter to the Corinthians, to show them the lowly position of tongues as compared with more important matters, especially the “surpassing way” of love. Even those blessed with the gift of tongues “become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing cymbal” if they do not exercise love, he explained.(1 Cor. 12:31; 13:1) And to emphasize the importance and permanence of love as compared to the miraculous gifts of the spirit, he wrote:“Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”—1 Corinthians 13:8

On the basis of Paul’s words here, there should be no question that the miraculous gifts of the spirit were to pass away. But when? It is argued by some that, since Paul said that ‘tongues are a sign to the unbelievers,’ they would not pass away until unbelievers passed away, that is, until there were no longer any unbelievers.(1 Cor. 14:22) But is that the point Paul is making in this thirteenth chapter? No, it is not. In this chapter he does not associate the cessation of tongues with unbelievers, but, rather, he is comparing the temporariness of the gifts of the spirit with the permanence of love; and he links the transitoriness of these gifts, not with unbelievers, but with the infancy of Christianity.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34210 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
2. The Israelites became slaves due to their disobedience to God's Word. If God wanted us to remain slaves, He would have never freed the Hebrews from their bondage and slavery under Egyptian rule. He would have never sent us Jesus. He would have never given us free will to repent and choose God's way, we would only be programmed robots. The Fact is, Jesus showed us how to serve one another, not how to be a slave. Scripture tells us that when we live life to its fullest by obedience to God's Word, we are glorifying God who blessed us with His grace, mercy and love.
2. As I have posted before the Hebrew original-language words “evedh” rendered “slave” or “servant” was used in referring to servants, or worshipers, of Jehovah generally (1Ki 8:36; 2Ki 10:23) and, more specifically, to special representatives of God, such as Moses.(Jos 1:1, 2; 24:29; 2Ki 21:10)
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34211 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
3. I am thoroughly persuaded by your comments that you lack the insight of who Jesus really is and why the Holy Spirit was sent in the first place. You have head knowledge that you have been taught but lack the insight and understanding of the truth and how it is applied in one's daily walk as a true follower of Christ/true sons and daughters of the Most High God.
3. Jesus Christ : The only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the firstborn of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adam’s offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Father’s original purpose for the earth.
Student

Oregon City, OR

#34213 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
4. We are commanded to go and preach the gospel, but you must really look at the motives behind your going door to door. The fact is you must fullfil a monthly quota to your organization which you do all in the name of service to God. This is slavery; bondage to your organization, this is not doing God's will; its fulfilling man's will under the guise of service to God. Until you completely surrender to God's will, you will not see the power of His Word in your life.
4. Jesus gets this campaign under way by choosing 70 disciples and sending them out by twos. Thus, there are altogether 35 teams of Kingdom preachers to work the territory. These go in advance into every city and place to which Jesus, evidently accompanied by his apostles, is planning to go.
Instead of directing the 70 to go to synagogues, Jesus tells them to enter private homes, explaining:“Wherever you enter into a house say first,‘May this house have peace.’ And if a friend of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him.” What is to be their message?“Go on telling them,” Jesus says,“the kingdom of God has come near to you.” Regarding the activity of the 70, Matthew Henry’s Commentary reports:“Like their Master, wherever they visited, they preached from house to house.”

True Christians are Kingdom Preachers. In the days following Pentecost of 33 C.E., Jesus’ disciples were already using a superb method of preaching the “good news.” After the persecuted apostles had been dishonored because of Jesus Christ’s name, what did they do?

Why,“every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus”!(Acts 5:41, 42) Yes, the apostles witnessed from house to house.

Later, the apostle Paul could remind appointed elders from Ephesus:“I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house. But I thoroughly bore witness both to Jews and to Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus.”(Acts 20:20, 21) Paul did not mean that he was teaching appointed elders in their homes. Rather, he was witnessing to unbelieving Jews and Greeks about repentance toward Jehovah God and faith in Jesus Christ.

Without question, Paul also taught those elders how to witness from house to house.

Jesus predicted for our day that “this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”(Matthew 24:14)

And Jesus commanded not only those who saw his ascension but his future followers as well to be “witnesses of [him] both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.”(Acts 1:8; see also Matthew 28:19, 20)

Thus, the core of an evangelizer’s message is the good news of Jehovah God’s Kingdom in the hands of his appointed Ruler, Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace.(Isaiah 9:6) And it includes all the truths that Jesus spoke and that his disciples recorded. True evangelizers of today faithfully stick to this one theme.

If you really want to learn HOW TO BECOME A TRUE CHRISTIAN goto www.jw.org and download this book called “WHAT DOES THE BIBLE Really TEACH?

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#34215 May 8, 2013
Jehovah in scripture…

Isaiah 47:11 (Mischief is actually the same as jehovah)

This Hebrew word is “hovah” and means
ruin or mischief. It is where the name
Jehovah comes from, which cannot be the
Father's name as there is no letter 'J' in
Hebrew, and Yahweh is not Elohim of
mischief. Jehovah is a false combination of
taking the four letters for the name Yahweh,
Y H W H and putting in the vowels for
Adonai. Jewish Rabbis started this tradition
during second temple times as they began to
think the sacred name YAHWEH was too
holy to pronounce. So not to inadvertently
pronounce the name they changed the
vowel pointing in the Masoretic text with
the vowels of Adonai.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#34216 May 8, 2013
God's name is not "Jehovah".

The word "Jehovah" is a word invented and fabricated by a Catholic Monk.

For all the world the information is testable, where the name Jehovah comes from, available on the Internet. On Wikipedia under the search word Jehovah, we find the following information:

The name Jehovah already occurs repeatedly in the 13th Century in the Latin form of Jehovah. The Spanish monk Raymond Mantini, translated about 1270 different parts of the Bible from the Hebrew. In his manuscripts is on the right side the Hebrew text and on the left the Latin with Iehovah.

Cardinal Nikolaus of Kues used the Tetragrammaton vocalized as Jehovah in several of his works, 1428, in his Sermon In Principio Erat Verbum.

Petrus Galatinus published in the year 1518 his work "De Arcnis catholicae veritatis".

As William Tyndale, translated the Pentateuch 1530, he erroneously transferred the Tetragrammaton by using the fabricated word Jehovah.

This information tell us:

The name Jehovah was only formed in the Middle Ages in its current form - well, actually invented!

The creators of the name Jehovah were Catholic monks!
The creation of the name Jehovah was willful!
The name Jehovah is the work of man!

Anyone who worships this name turns to a human invention!

Anyone who says this name would be in the original texts - is lying!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#34220 May 9, 2013
Sadly the Jehovah Witnesses are one of the most confused people when it comes to comprehending the bible. Their interpretations are easily seen to be so far off from what the bible says. They have on so many occassions attempted to tell the world that on several different dates that the Lord was coming. The worst was in 1975 when members again were told the Lord was coming and were told to sell there posessions and not to buy anything or to apply for college and on and on. This was the worst ever as many committed suicide, didn't have jobs because most had quit their job because the Lord was coming. They believe that blood transfusion is a sin, which it isn't, they believe in a new earth and only 144,000 will be on it. This is a tragic case of total ignorance of the bible.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34224 May 9, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
Words translate. Names don't If my name is Peter you better not call me Rocky, as one new "translation" has come up with. Or Pedro either! Evolution of language doesn't make it correct.
If I knew you you didn't speak any other languages, I probably wouldn't have tried to explain it to you.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34225 May 9, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
NO because that's not what that name means!
Hovah = chaos and ruin - Strong's 1943 Eze 7:26
So are you comfortable changing the identity of the Holy One?
Hovah is a completely unrelated word that has nothing to do with our discussion. The fact that a common modern pronunciation of the divine name sounds like some other unrelated Hebrew word is about as relevant as pointing out that your form of pronouncing it sounds like a vernacular memetic form of replying to "Oh really?". I.e. "Ya Way!"

http://www.epicgifs.net/images/show/6SD3VJN7
http://webassets.scea.com/forums/19338_YA_WAI...

Speaking English doesn't change the identity of the Holy One.

Come back when you know something about linguistics that you didn't take from a copy and paste website.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#34226 May 9, 2013
No they aren't!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#34227 May 9, 2013
I'd like to leave you with one thought, but I'm afraid that you would have no where to put it.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34228 May 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
All I see here is rhetoric. You were not able to defend your position nor to attack the fact that "Jehovah" is a transliteration error.
All you see is rhetoric? I see a number of syllogisms.

For example:

Premise: Name means - "a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known."
Premise: People from a hypothetical future designate, call or know you as Cksdolkeensdipl.
Conclusion: Your name is Cksdolkeensdipl.

Premise: In our hypothetical future, your name is Cksdolkeensdipl.
Premise: You said: "If, 10,000 years from now someone refers to me as Cksdolkeensdipl, because that is something of the equivalent of my name in that language, that will still not be my name."
Conclusion: You were either using a definition of name that you made up on the spot to try and prove your ignorant claims, or you are just wrong.

I looked over all of the different definitions for name in the dictionary. None of them will help you here, because you probably didn't bother to check the dictionary or learn the proper definition of name in elementary.

I've studied logic extensively in my life, and barring a few irrelevant inconsistencies written into them for rhetorical purposes, the above conclusions are completely sound and irrefutable. My point is made, whether you can keep up with Aristotelian logic or not.

It was never my objective in the post you quoted to "attack the fact that ; 'Jehovah' is a transliteration error". Merely, it was to demonstrate that names are still words at the end of the day, and while they are among the most difficult words to translate and change, it still happens, and transliteration is not always appropriate. Before dictionaries, there was no standardized spelling for English, so yes, your comparatively nescient self needs to kneel before the dictionary's authority.

Please say you don't have to so that I can smash Romans 13 down on your face.(Figuratively)
Dogen wrote:
Only a brainwashed dub would defend the Watchtowerism cult.
Unsubstantiated opinion. Dismissed.
Dogen wrote:
What are the translation (transliteration)credentials of the propagandists who published the NWT (New World Travesty)?
I've never heard of the New World Travesty.
Dogen wrote:
Isn't it true that the most educated member of the group could was not fully literate (much less expert) in either Hebrew or Greek?
Assuming you're speaking of the New World Translation:

Isn't it true that you don't have the slightest clue who the translators were and need me to agree to your loaded question so that you can even use it in an argument, because unless I simply accept it as a fact it is impossible for you to substantiate your irrelevant claim?

Well, unfortunately for you, I just opened a NWT and looked on one of the front pages (figuratively), and all it says is: New World Bible Translation Committee.

That's who translated it. If you become psychic someday and can tell me who did it and what their credentials were, let me know. Until then, though, the answer is, you don't know.

The translation itself, though, is sound.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34229 May 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Same two points remain. Names change (with the language), but a particular persons name does not.
I'd quote you several translators that say differently, and specially in regard to religious texts, but it's wasted on you. First show me that you accept the dictionary, and one step at a time, we'll work on getting you to a point where you think rationally.
Dogen wrote:
"Jehovah" is no longer in wide spread usage except among zombie cult members,
Prove it. Show me statistics about usage of Yahweh Vs. Jehovah. If you're going to exclude Jws, you would also need to remove Jewish Scholars, since they use Hebrew/Yiddish liturgically anyway, so of course they are going to try and say the name in Hebrew.

Note: Failure to prove it in response to this post will automatically retract the point for lack of substantiation.
Dogen wrote:
most of whom could not thing for themselves even BEFORE they became dub's. Which is obviously WHY they became watchtowerites. People who are well educated, intelligent and have good self esteem are more resistant to cult induction techniques.
How would you know the thoughts of the educated when you don't seem educated yourself? I know that you don't have the required knowledge to say anything about the divine name or otherwise without having read the work and/or opinions of others. When you can speak Hebrew then you can say that you "thing [sic]" for yourself.
Dogen wrote:
The watchtower even discourages people from getting an education. In the early days that was because there was no point as the world was going to end any day (I know that is taking liberties with what the cult actually believes).
The religion encourages everyone to obtain the best education that they can. There's a difference between studying organic chemistry, linear algebra, and Macro-economics while all you want is a degree in the arts and using your time efficiently to maximize your learning in the fields you care about. It's not our fault the education system in this country (and most) is retarded and inefficient.

I study as a hobby. I rejected the scholarship offered to me and never turned in my college credits, because having some worthless degree wasn't going to increase my income or my knowledge. When I'm bored I buy books and read (I only read non-fiction) them at once -- and I learn faster this way then when I was taking AP classes.

I'm studying personal and business law like that atm (at the moment, for those incapable of 'googling' acronyms), and working for an investment company since Finance and Economics were some of my strongest subjects.
Dogen wrote:
Today it is to keep the rank and file as ignorant as possible as they ask fewer questions and are easier to control.
Unsubstantiated. Dismissed.

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