“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34169 May 7, 2013
BIBLE TRUE JEHOVA wrote:
<quoted text>
IF you know Yahveh
why you dodn't try to invite those by the door JW and help them to know Yahveh true purpose?
Why you slam the door before them?
and shrie behind the door like idiot,or call police?
why you don't preach good news of true Yahveh?
I assume you are one more just blind scumbag and hater of not only JW but also yourselves
Romans 13;10
LOVE WORKETH NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOUR;
THEREFORE LOVE IS FULFILLING OF THE LAW
You don't follow this advice
and
if you don't understand my foreign english,please?
don't expose your vicious hate,rascism,and antinationalistic remarks about foreign english
kapisho???

Can anyone decipher this rant?

I caught the first two sentences.

I have talked to the Watchtower cult sales people before. They are afraid to come to my house anymore. When I see them in my neighborhood they look away.

Satan fears the truth.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34170 May 7, 2013
Do Do Cockodoo wrote:
<quoted text>
he is not able to be ralaxed
his hate and rascism is very strong and horible against JW,and himselves,
I am sure,if he seat on the toilet and fart,he punch his own fate because not relaxed soul and hate of yourselves and others make him very poor lost creature in the jungle of this wild evil and bloody hamnkind

I told you to go learn English.

I speak the truth and the Cult fears the truth.

Ella

Rockford, MI

#34171 May 7, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah does NOT make mistakes.
You really do not know what a slave is, so I will inform you. A slave has been defined as “a person who is the legal property of another or others and is bound to absolute obedience.”
We become Jehovah’s legal property when we dedicate our lives to him and get baptized.“You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price,” explains the apostle Paul.(1 Corinthians 6:19, 20)
That price, of course, is Jesus Christ’s ransom sacrifice, since on that basis God accepts us as his servants, whether we are anointed Christians or we are their companions with an earthly hope.(Ephesians 1:7; 2:13; Revelation 5:9)
Thus, from the time of our baptism,“we belong to Jehovah.”(Romans 14:8) Since we have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ, we also become his slaves and are under obligation to keep his commandments.(1 Peter 1:18, 19)
In everyday life, even in small ways, we want to show that we “slave for Jehovah.”(Romans 12:11) w05 3/15 p.17
"bound to absolute obedience" STUDENT, we have a free will. God wants us to come to Him freely and to obey His commands out of our love for Him. God sent Jesus to us out of His great love for us. Jesus' shed blood redeemed us from the bondage of sin and death, so we no longer have to be a slave to sin. Baptism is an outward expression (before christian witnesses) of our inward commitment to pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus to the glory and honor of God. Yes we are bought with a price, a price we could never repay.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34172 May 7, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are misinterpreting the scriptures. You move from being a slave, to a friend, to a son/daughter. It's a progression in your walk with the Lord. Thus a slave does not know what his master is about, whereas a friend is aware because it is made known to them, and a son is one who is led by God's Spirit. Abraham was called a friend of God. A slave is usually one in the bondage of sin; one in need of deliverance. Since you classify yourself as a slave, then according to God's own words, you wouldn't know Him or about Him.....

Your words would be very helpful to someone who can thing for themselves, but Failing Student does not know how to do that. He has sold his soul to a Satanic, mind control, cult. He is doomed by his own egotism and self righteousness.
Ella

Rockford, MI

#34173 May 7, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah does NOT make mistakes.
You really do not know what a slave is, so I will inform you. A slave has been defined as “a person who is the legal property of another or others and is bound to absolute obedience.”
We become Jehovah’s legal property when we dedicate our lives to him and get baptized.“You do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price,” explains the apostle Paul.(1 Corinthians 6:19, 20)
That price, of course, is Jesus Christ’s ransom sacrifice, since on that basis God accepts us as his servants, whether we are anointed Christians or we are their companions with an earthly hope.(Ephesians 1:7; 2:13; Revelation 5:9)
Thus, from the time of our baptism,“we belong to Jehovah.”(Romans 14:8) Since we have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ, we also become his slaves and are under obligation to keep his commandments.(1 Peter 1:18, 19)
In everyday life, even in small ways, we want to show that we “slave for Jehovah.”(Romans 12:11) w05 3/15 p.17
There seems to be a lot of confusion in your belief system. Either you are following God's Word or you are not. We cannot pick and choose what we want to believe or twist God's Word to suit our purposes or agenda. You have continually presented misquoted scriptures to me and your interpretations of scripture doesn't even line up with God's Word. God's Word is the FINAL AUTHORITY. By God's Word, we know if a person is speaking truth or in error. You have not, thus far, presented a good arguement to show me that a Jehovah Witnesses is a true disciple of Jesus Christ.
LightForce

Warren, MI

#34174 May 7, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
"bound to absolute obedience" STUDENT, we have a free will. God wants us to come to Him freely and to obey His commands out of our love for Him. God sent Jesus to us out of His great love for us. Jesus' shed blood redeemed us from the bondage of sin and death, so we no longer have to be a slave to sin. Baptism is an outward expression (before christian witnesses) of our inward commitment to pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus to the glory and honor of God. Yes we are bought with a price, a price we could never repay.
I am not as well versed in the Bible as you are, but I tend to agree with you. It seems to me that a slave must obey what his master tells him, whereas a brother has the same heart/soul/spirit, that needs no coercion by the master. But love is the ultimate bond.
Auto World secretary

Washington, DC

#34175 May 7, 2013
Shame wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd hate to be 701. I'd be pissed.
The good news is that they both are good disciples of Lord Obama and Lord Leggett because Christ came in the form of Obama and Leggett so America and especially Montgomery County can be good missionaries for the good gospels of Leggett and Obama. This is a good coalition among the rank and file. America has become a good christian nation due to our good christian president Obama becoming our Lord and Messiah on October 21, 2012.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34176 May 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is incorrect. Yahweh is correct in English. Jehovah is NOTHING in English.
Maybe a little history will explain it to you. "Jehovah" was a translation error due to early, English speaking, Christians not understanding how to deal with diacritical markings.
Jehovah is simply an error. That error got passed on to Spanish.
You do realize that all languages are, in a sense, corrupted or distorted versions of an original Indo-European language, yes? And so what we accept as the correct pronunciation of words in English today would be considered incorrect in the past? Want to know how we establish, then, what is right or wrong in living languages like English?

We use tools like dictionaries.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Jehova...

^ As you can see, Jehovah *is* something in English. Put differently, you're wrong. Please retract your claim or re-define English in your argument as:'My interpretation of how the language all of you are speaking *should* be' or something equally inane.

Jehovah is defined in the dictionary. Ergo, it means something in English. It is God's name in the "English Hebrew Scriptures". A name which unfortunately, it's original pronunciation has been lost to time, but that isn't relevant in the least in our modern usage.

If you want to strike at the wind, as Paul did not, and try to argue for one of the dozens of different pronunciations that scholars have put forth for God's name in Hebrew, knock yourself out. Literally. Literally knock yourself out.(Catachresis)

But for everyone else who simply speaks English properly, we'll continue to use Jehovah as it is defined in the dictionary. And if tomorrow, the new "in" thing is to replace all instances of 'a' with 'o', and that's how language is understood, then we'll start saying it that way.

By the way, I would love to see your source for how this "error" spread from English to Spanish. Please do show it to us.
Dogen wrote:
There simply is no way to get 'Jehovah' out of YHWH without committing the same error as early translators did.
So, in conclusion, Jehovah is not YHWH in English any more than John in Spanish is tjweivlksol.
Out of curiosity, say any other biblical name. Or a number of them. Write out a few biblical names phonetically in the way that you normally say them. From what you explain here, it sounds like listening to you read Chronicles or the genealogy of Jesus would be an extremely entertaining event.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34178 May 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. An while languages evolve the names within them evolve. But this is not the case with ancient Hebrew, which is relatively unchanged as Hebrew is (or I should say 'was') a dead language.
Hebrew has been somewhat reanimated in the last century.
There's a Web Service dedicated purely to the translation of names:

http://www.behindthename.com/translate.php

Isn't that neat for something that doesn't happen? You know, since names aren't translated, but rather transliterated? I would love to know what you both think happens when a name is translated to a language that doesn't use a European alphabet.

Btw, John is Juan in Spanish, Jean in French, and Ioannes in Koine. Based on your theory, all the modern bibles in English, Spanish, and French made a huge error. It should be First, Second and Third letter of Ioannes, lol.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34179 May 7, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
This is getting kind of comical. I kind of like the idea of a man buying a used car with a flat tire and continuing to drive on it. Another way to look at it is logic applied to error leads to chaos. Hence, Strongs H1943
Hovah = chaos and ruin - Eze 7:26
I recommend we stay on this name thing as Hebrews won't pronounce it or even give an accurate meaning and jw's are, well, jw's - driving on that flat tire. LOL
That flat tire being proper English. And unless you intend to revive every dead language and go on a crusade to have everyone pronounce things the way they ought to be, I suggest you start speaking proper English as well.

After all, we both know you wouldn't even know where to start if you had to revive any language. In fact, just like everyone else on this board, you don't even know how God's name was legitimately said in Hebrew. In fact, aside from flipping through concordance pages, you probably don't know how to say or express anything in Modern Hebrew and less in Biblical Hebrew.

So let's all, and by all I mean you and Dogen, take a step back and think about what is being said and what that would mean for the entire borrowed English language.

Also, what in the world are you doing at 1 AM to be answering on these boards? I have an excuse -- I was playing (fairly non-violent) video-games since I have off work tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of everyone else up this late, lol.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34185 May 8, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
There seems to be a lot of confusion in your belief system. Either you are following God's Word or you are not. We cannot pick and choose what we want to believe or twist God's Word to suit our purposes or agenda. You have continually presented misquoted scriptures to me and your interpretations of scripture doesn't even line up with God's Word. God's Word is the FINAL AUTHORITY. By God's Word, we know if a person is speaking truth or in error. You have not, thus far, presented a good arguement to show me that a Jehovah Witnesses is a true disciple of Jesus Christ.

Amen

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34186 May 8, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that all languages are, in a sense, corrupted or distorted versions of an original Indo-European language, yes?
Yes


ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> And so what we accept as the correct pronunciation of words in English today would be considered incorrect in the past?
Of course. Language is an evolving organism.


ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> Want to know how we establish, then, what is right or wrong in living languages like English?
I already do.


ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> We use tools like dictionaries.
No. Dictionaries tell the general, current meaning of a word at the time the dictionary was published. It tells very little about the etymology or evolution of the word over time.

Furthermore, we are talking about Names,.... proper nouns. Specifically nouns of personal identification.

If, 10,000 years from now someone refers to me as Cksdolkeensdipl, because that is something of the equivalent of my name in that language, that will still not be my name.


ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> Please retract your claim or re-define English in your argument as:'My interpretation of how the language all of you are speaking *should* be' or something equally inane.
Maybe further clarification is in order. I don't know why it should be, but lets proceed on that presumption.

According to the BEST MODERN scholarship the name YHWH (itself transliterated from Hebrew) would be intoned (pronounced/spoken) "Yah-way" or "Ya-wei".

If I am writing a story about Juan who lives in Mexico, I should not change his name to John. His name is Juan. I can say the English near equivalent of Juan is John, that is certainly true. But HIS personal name is Juan.
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> If you want to strike at the wind, as Paul did not, and try to argue for one of the dozens of different pronunciations that scholars have put forth for God's name in Hebrew, knock yourself out.
There are not dozens. There are slight alterations of the basic pronunciation of Yah-weh that go on, but scholars do NOT disagree on the fundamental pronunciation or etymology of the name.

ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> But for everyone else who simply speaks English properly, we'll continue to use Jehovah ...
Why? Jehovah is nobody's name. It is a transliteration error. Because the early transliteraters did not have an understanding of the intonations of the Hebrew language and of the meaning of diacritical markings (which they literally ignored), they made a boo boo.

And since "Jehovah" has fallen out of favor due to the knowledge of the correct name of God (Yahweh) your point is moot (Moot- rendered unimportant by recent events).

Less important than the transliteration error is that we agree that the Watchtower cult is evil and Satan inspired. That is the most important point. That they use a name for Yahweh that is unacceptable is one one of a million proofs of that.

By their evil fruits we know them.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34187 May 8, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a Web Service dedicated purely to the translation of names:
http://www.behindthename.com/translate.php
Isn't that neat for something that doesn't happen? You know, since names aren't translated, but rather transliterated? I would love to know what you both think happens when a name is translated to a language that doesn't use a European alphabet.
Btw, John is Juan in Spanish, Jean in French, and Ioannes in Koine. Based on your theory, all the modern bibles in English, Spanish, and French made a huge error. It should be First, Second and Third letter of Ioannes, lol.

You are making my point for me. Thank you.

But I really don't need any help as I am just arguing with a Dub and they don't have a whole brain among the whole lot of them.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34188 May 8, 2013
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text>
That flat tire being proper English.

No. English is just English. It is a living, evolving amalgam of languages that continues to change over time. Names of people in the past are what they were unless changed by language evolution. But if the people are not important then I guess the names are not important.

But do you REALLY want to second guess GOD as to how he refers to himself?

If you do, go ahead and have fun with it. Play in rush hour traffic on a 10 lane interstate while you are at it.

Second, I hope that you understand that while my points are serious, they are not too serious. A lot of what I write is with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. And I don't think the JW's are evil only because the use the wrong name for Yahweh,..... I have a lot of other reasons as well.
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> you don't even know how God's name was legitimately said in Hebrew.

The whole point is that, in fact, we DO. Within a limit of error (Yah-weh vs. Ya-Wei for example). But we do know that "jehovah" is completely wrong AND we KNOW WHY it is completely wrong, as I have already explained.

A number of your points were side track (concordance and the like) which I deemed not worthy to respond to. If you think otherwise I will explain why I think so.
ServantOfWisdom wrote:
<quoted text> Also, what in the world are you doing at 1 AM to be answering on these boards? I have an excuse -- I was playing (fairly non-violent) video-games since I have off work tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of everyone else up this late, lol.

I don't know what time zone you are in, but I am almost never here after 11 EST.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34189 May 8, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be nice. Could you possibly pick up a couple ham sandwiches on the way so we can do lunch? BTW which corrupted translation do you prefer? I like Rotherham, The Scriptures, the AMP, The Stone Edition of the Tanakh and the Orthodox Jewish Bible. And what do you make of Gen 6:4-5? PS I don't speak Spanish.

Hey, if we are playing the favorite versions of the bible game I would like to play too!

I like the NASB, the Orthodox Jewish Bible, Interlinear and the SLB Greek NT. I also like the New Jerusalem Bible.

Nephilim seems to means "fallen ones" and not "giants". But that is a judgement call.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34191 May 8, 2013
Dogen wrote:
No. Dictionaries tell the general, current meaning of a word at the time the dictionary was published. It tells very little about the etymology or evolution of the word over time.
Are etymological dictionaries no longer dictionaries?
Dogen wrote:
Furthermore, we are talking about Names,.... proper nouns. Specifically nouns of personal identification.
If, 10,000 years from now someone refers to me as Cksdolkeensdipl, because that is something of the equivalent of my name in that language, that will still not be my name.
Names used to mean something and were intended to describe the person. Words with meaning can very much be translated -- so to stay true to what names mean, George should be Gardner and Noah should be Comfort. So are you going to start calling Jehovah: "The one that Causes to Become"?

But what if the name holds no meaning in the recipient language? Would it be wrong to alter the name when translating it to another language, so that the name is more familiar to the native speakers? Your ethical views aside, language at large has decided to accept it.

Name - "a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known."

You forget that you didn't choose your name to begin with. It was picked for you. And you know what? If everyone starts calling you Cksdolkeensdipl, that's your name. You can have multiple names, and if you travel to different countries, you -will-.
Dogen wrote:
Maybe further clarification is in order. I don't know why it should be, but lets proceed on that presumption.
According to the BEST MODERN scholarship the name YHWH (itself transliterated from Hebrew) would be intoned (pronounced/spoken) "Yah-way" or "Ya-wei".
In Hebrew. And maybe, because it could also be Yehowah, Yehwah, Yehowih, Yehwih, Yehwih, etc. etc. But you know what? In English, it isn't pronounced any of those ways, except for occasionally Yahweh.
Dogen wrote:
If I am writing a story about Juan who lives in Mexico, I should not change his name to John. His name is Juan. I can say the English near equivalent of Juan is John, that is certainly true. But HIS personal name is Juan.
Source this opinion of yours if you want it to be seen as more than an opinion. I've never seen a Linguistics expert say this.
Dogen wrote:
Why? Jehovah is nobody's name. It is a transliteration error. Because the early transliteraters did not have an understanding of the intonations of the Hebrew language and of the meaning of diacritical markings (which they literally ignored), they made a boo boo.
And Kangaroo means "what?" according to the Australian urban legend. But is Kangaroo the correct word for that creature in English? Yes. Does anyone care that it was an error? Nope. Language has done dumber things, but once something is defined, regardless of it's origins, it means what it means.
Dogen wrote:
And since "Jehovah" has fallen out of favor due to the knowledge of the correct name of God (Yahweh) your point is moot (Moot- rendered unimportant by recent events).
By you and a handful of people that want to make a mountain out of an abyss.(Rhetorically) Meanwhile, the rest of the English speaking world and most translations continue to use Jehovah, Jesus, and John.
Dogen wrote:
Less important than the transliteration error is that we agree that the Watchtower cult is evil and Satan inspired. That is the most important point. That they use a name for Yahweh that is unacceptable is one one of a million proofs of that.
By their evil fruits we know them.
That's a very interesting opinion. So far I've only been defending the English language, but linguistics and rhetorical science is only my hobby. If you want to be wrong at Theology as well, feel free to pick a doctrine and go first.:P

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#34192 May 8, 2013
As soon as I get my magic underpants from the Temple, I am flying to the Pleiadess to be with the Gods.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34193 May 8, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. English is just English. It is a living, evolving amalgam of languages that continues to change over time. Names of people in the past are what they were unless changed by language evolution. But if the people are not important then I guess the names are not important.
But do you REALLY want to second guess GOD as to how he refers to himself?
If you do, go ahead and have fun with it. Play in rush hour traffic on a 10 lane interstate while you are at it.
Second, I hope that you understand that while my points are serious, they are not too serious. A lot of what I write is with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. And I don't think the JW's are evil only because the use the wrong name for Yahweh,..... I have a lot of other reasons as well.
I've noticed some of that tongue-in-cheek-ness. That's good. I prefer to have people who aren't easily insulted, and in turn I can take my fair share of underhanded remarks :P.

That said! I doubt God *actually* refers to himself in any human spoken language. Yahweh itself, even if it were the right pronunciation, is not adequate to express God's true name in heaven.
Dogen wrote:
The whole point is that, in fact, we DO. Within a limit of error (Yah-weh vs. Ya-Wei for example). But we do know that "jehovah" is completely wrong AND we KNOW WHY it is completely wrong, as I have already explained.
A number of your points were side track (concordance and the like) which I deemed not worthy to respond to. If you think otherwise I will explain why I think so.
That's fine, I'll normally point it out a second time if there was something that wasn't simply rhetorical and that I legitimately expected a response to. And as I mentioned above, Kangaroo is completely wrong as well, but it's part of our language now, and it is what it is (pun with hayah not intended).
Dogen wrote:
I don't know what time zone you are in, but I am almost never here after 11 EST.
I meant Yon. Or Yoni. Don't remember his user-name and too lazy to check right now, so just gonna wing it and say Yoni.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#34194 May 8, 2013
yon wrote:
I think the fallen angels came back. The nephilim were their progeny.
Darn, it's yon. I was so close, lol.

But right now, I use scripture4all Interlinear for hobby reading Hebrew scriptures.

For Greek, I use Westcott and Hort primarily. Take a guess as to why :P. That's rhetorical. Don't take a guess. Everyone that knows what I'm talking about already knows why, lol.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#34195 May 8, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Some, like certain apostates today, are disloyally working as Satan’s agents...
All jehovah's witnesses are apostates and they are loyal to Satan.

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