“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34005 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes there are other angels. As with the visible creation, so also in the invisible realm there is order and rank among the angels. The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is Michael, the archangel.(Da 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9; Re 12:7)
Ranking very high among the angels in privileges and honor are the seraphs.(Isa 6:2, 6)

Seraphs are not angels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphs
Student wrote:
<quoted text> More frequently (some 90 times), the Scriptures mention the cherubs, and from the description of their duties and responsibilities it is apparent that they, too, hold a special position among the angels.(Ge 3:24; Eze 10:1-22)

Nor are Cherubs angels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubs
Student wrote:
<quoted text> Michael is the only one said to be “the archangel,” meaning “chief angel,” or “principal angel.” The term occurs in the Bible only in the singular. This seems to imply that there is but one whom God has designated chief, or head, of the angelic host.

As noted above, this is incorrect.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34006 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, there are 144,000 Kings that Jesus is King of.
Revelation 14:1-3
And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.
Revelations 5:8-10
8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones. 9 And they sing a new song, saying:“You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

The 144,000 are members of the Unification Church, which is the true church of Jesus and they can prove it by the bible.

At lease so say the moonies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/144000_%28number...

This happens to also be the number of Muslim Saints,

See also:
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Revelatio...

See, none of your cults ideas are based on reality. They work fine in a vacuum (i.e. the skull cases of JW cult members), but they fail when viewed in proper context.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34007 Apr 22, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
In the heavenly realm which is greater a King of Kings or an archangel?

Jesus.

The Watchtower cults "logic" in demoting Jesus to an archangel is found here:

http://www.letusreason.org/jw22.htm

JWism is nonsense. Anyone rationally examining the facts can see that. That is why the Watchtower cult tries to keep its followers away from objective information (temptation by Satan).

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34008 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Daniel 10:13- But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Michael, one of the FORMOST (or FRIST) princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia.
The name “Michael” means “Who Is Like God?” thus indicating that this foremost prince upholds Jehovah’s sovereignty. He had full authority from God to act in His name, just as kings in ancient times entrusted their seal rings to reliable subjects, empowering them to act in their name.(Exodus 3:2, 3; 4:10)
Is there anything here to make us believe that Michael and Jesus Christ are the same person? Well, Jesus is called “the Word.”(John 1:1) He is God’s spokesman. This special angelic messenger, too, was clearly God’s chief spokesman to the Israelites.

The name Michael does NOT mean "Who is like God?".

It means "Who is like God."

A period at the end, not a question mark.

This is the sort of diabolical little lies that Watchtowerism is built on.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34009 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Ezekiel, Daniel’s contemporary, foretold the coming of one “who has the legal right” to rule again as king of God’s people.(Ezekiel 21:25-27)
This one is not to be identified with the Levite Maccabees who exercised some authority during a brief period of independence. Not being descendants of King David, they had no “legal right” to be kings. Rather, it was Jesus Christ who was anointed by God to rule as king in a heavenly kingdom.(Luke 1:31-33; 22:29, 30; Psalm 110:1)
He was the only one thus anointed. It is therefore only logical to say that Jesus and Michael are the same person.
In Daniel chapter 7, there is another prophecy about the march of world powers that has parallels with Daniel chapter 11. At the climax of that prophecy, however, we read that “someone like a son of man” was “given rulership and dignity and kingdom.”(Daniel 7:13, 14)
The one “like a son of man” is widely recognized as Jesus.(Matthew 10:23; 26:64; Revelation 14:14) Hence, in the climax of one prophecy, Jesus becomes a king. In the other prophecy in Daniel, Michael becomes a king.
Since both prophecies deal with the same time and the same event, surely it is reasonable to conclude that they are also dealing with the same person.

Sorry, but you are wrong every single time.

Daniel 7:13 The Aramaic phrase 'bar enash' means human being.

Thus your "logic" fails again.




There is nothing in your cult I cannot bust. It is a deception, but not a very good one. The flaws are just so obvious.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34010 Apr 22, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus was more than God's spokesman. Are you sure you know who Jesus really is?

JW literature is all over the place on who Jesus was.

You want the inside scoop on the cult you can find publications that are intended only for members and even ones intended only for elders and higher on the internet if you know how to search for them.

Here is a book that rank and file members are not supposed to have access to:

http://www.bible.cfmin.com/PAYATTENTION.pdf

This is one of at least 2 "secret" watchtower books. This one is actually not a secret, but the elders did not like it getting out and made threats against the guy who released it.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtrut...

http://www.watchman.org/jw/steinhaug.htm



More great sites that expose the Watchtower cult:

http://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watc...

http://kent.steinhaug.no/forum/index.php

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness1.ht...

To name only a few.
Ella

Rockford, MI

#34011 Apr 22, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus.
The Watchtower cults "logic" in demoting Jesus to an archangel is found here:
http://www.letusreason.org/jw22.htm
JWism is nonsense. Anyone rationally examining the facts can see that. That is why the Watchtower cult tries to keep its followers away from objective information (temptation by Satan).
I know it's Jesus. I was asking Student to see if he understands differences in position and their levels of authority.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34012 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Proverbs 8: 1, 3-Does not wisdom keep calling out, and discernment keep giving forth its voice? 3 At the side of the gates, at the mouth of the town, at the going in of the entrances it keeps crying loudly:
It is true that in Hebrew, which assigns gender to its nouns (as do many other languages), the word for “wisdom” is always in the feminine gender.
This would continue to be the case even though wisdom is personified and so would not rule out wisdom’s being used figuratively to represent God’s firstborn Son.
The Greek word for “love” in the expression “God is love”(1Jo 4:8) is also in the feminine gender but that does not make God feminine.
Solomon, the principal writer of Proverbs (Pr 1:1), applied the title qoheleth (congregator) to himself (Ec 1:1) and this word is also in the feminine gender.
Here again most translators have made wisdom a woman, but like you have point out in Isaiah 11:2 this sprout will has the spirit of wisdom.

Same sort of logical and factual errors we have come to expect from you.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34013 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
No I do not speak in tongues. And I haven’t done any of the above!
Have you?
Performing apparently miraculous works would not in itself prove divine authorization, nor would the inability of God’s servants to perform miracles with the help of God’s spirit cast doubt on the fact that they were being used by him.(Mt 7:21-23)
Not every first-century Christian could perform powerful works, heal, speak in tongues, and translate. Paul, and doubtless some others, had by God’s undeserved kindness been granted a number of these gifts of the spirit.
These miraculous gifts marked the infancy of the Christian congregation and were foretold to cease.
In fact, even Jesus indicated that his followers would be identified, not by their performance of powerful works, but by their love for one another.(1Co 12:29, 30; 13:2, 8-13; Joh 13:35)

First of all, what is it called when you quote something verbatim and do not cite the source document. Oh yea! PLAGIARISM!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_in_the_Bible_...

BUSTED!!!!

Typical JW deceit.

Do you guys have to go through a liar training class?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34014 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
They are both equal in power.
In Daniel’s prophecy,‘standing up’ frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king.(Da 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21)
This supports the conclusion that Michael is Jesus Christ, since Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon.(Re 11:15; 16:14-16)

More Plagiarism.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
Ella

Rockford, MI

#34015 Apr 22, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
JW literature is all over the place on who Jesus was.
You want the inside scoop on the cult you can find publications that are intended only for members and even ones intended only for elders and higher on the internet if you know how to search for them.
Here is a book that rank and file members are not supposed to have access to:
http://www.bible.cfmin.com/PAYATTENTION.pdf
This is one of at least 2 "secret" watchtower books. This one is actually not a secret, but the elders did not like it getting out and made threats against the guy who released it.
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtrut...
http://www.watchman.org/jw/steinhaug.htm
More great sites that expose the Watchtower cult:
http://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watc...
http://kent.steinhaug.no/forum/index.php
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness1.ht...
To name only a few.
Thank you. This is very helpful. STUDENT should read it, especially since it is written by his enlightened elders.
Student

Caborca, Mexico

#34016 Apr 22, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, what is it called when you quote something verbatim and do not cite the source document. Oh yea! PLAGIARISM!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_in_the_Bible_...
BUSTED!!!!
Typical JW deceit.
Do you guys have to go through a liar training class?
If you think I use the Internet in finding answer to question, you are really working for Satan. But thanks for the website, I will check it out!
Student

Caborca, Mexico

#34017 Apr 22, 2013
Ella wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. This is very helpful. STUDENT should read it, especially since it is written by his enlightened elders.
I have save this, and will read it, and print it and I'll also question one of the elders about it. There are so many lies about us on the internet, that I really do not have time to check them all out.

The experiences of Jehovah’s people in these “last days” have certainly proved Jesus’ words to be true:“Happy are you whenever men hate you, and whenever they exclude you and reproach you and cast out your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. Rejoice in that day and leap, for, look! your reward is great in heaven, for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets.”(Luke 6:22, 23; 2 Timothy 3:1)

Yes, God’s servants can faithfully endure all manner of persecution, and do so joyfully.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34018 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think I use the Internet in finding answer to question, you are really working for Satan. But thanks for the website, I will check it out!

Text matches yours. One of you is plagiarizing and I will go with the guy who wrote it last (you).

To bad you did not read his conclusion.

Of course you are not allowed to look on the internet for answers, unless it is on an approved JW web site.

You might want to read the book that your elders use to keep the sales force in line.


Ella

Rockford, MI

#34019 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
I have save this, and will read it, and print it and I'll also question one of the elders about it. There are so many lies about us on the internet, that I really do not have time to check them all out.
The experiences of Jehovah’s people in these “last days” have certainly proved Jesus’ words to be true:“Happy are you whenever men hate you, and whenever they exclude you and reproach you and cast out your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. Rejoice in that day and leap, for, look! your reward is great in heaven, for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets.”(Luke 6:22, 23; 2 Timothy 3:1)
Yes, God’s servants can faithfully endure all manner of persecution, and do so joyfully.


I'm looking forward to your comments...thanks

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34020 Apr 22, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
I have save this, and will read it, and print it and I'll also question one of the elders about it. There are so many lies about us on the internet, that I really do not have time to check them all out.

Translation: I am afraid of the reality that is out there and have been told not to look.

As I have demonstrated, many of these "lied" are the absolute truth.

Did you know your cult used to use subliminal message in their artwork?

Did you know your cult uses pagan and occult symbols?

You always run away from these sorts of issues. It is not hard to understand why you are so afraid.

http://www.bible.ca/Jw-internet.htm#notbible

Student wrote:
<quoted text>The experiences of Jehovah’s people in these “last days” have certainly proved Jesus’ words to be true:“Happy are you whenever men hate you, and whenever they exclude you and reproach you and cast out your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man.

These are not the last days. Even the WT cult has been slowing pulling away from that. And who cares about the pagan god Jehovah's people?

Yahweh's people have suffered far more than you can imagine.


Student wrote:
<quoted text> Rejoice in that day and leap, for, look! your reward is great in heaven, for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets.”(Luke 6:22, 23; 2 Timothy 3:1)

But WT cult members are not going to heaven. Isn't that right?




[QUOTE who="Student "]<quoted text> Yes, God’s servants can faithfully endure all manner of persecution, and do so joyfully.

Whatever gets you to continue to avoid reality, big guy. I know how cults work. What I said before I still say. You are to weak to deal with reality, so you really may be better off being a member of a cult that has all the answers.

Babies are given milk because that is all they can handle. Maybe someday you will be ready for solid food, but that day is not today.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#34022 Apr 22, 2013
yon wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes why?

Because it is not as good as more recent translations from modern scholarship and older (in places) documents.

The KJV is very colored by the prevailing theology of the time. Translations like the NASB (while still overly traditional) is more literal and does not have any overriding theological bias.
Student

Caborca, Mexico

#34023 Apr 22, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Translation: I am afraid of the reality that is out there and have been told not to look.
As I have demonstrated, many of these "lied" are the absolute truth.
Did you know your cult used to use subliminal message in their artwork?
Did you know your cult uses pagan and occult symbols?
You always run away from these sorts of issues. It is not hard to understand why you are so afraid.
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-internet.htm#notbible
<quoted text>
These are not the last days. Even the WT cult has been slowing pulling away from that. And who cares about the pagan god Jehovah's people?
Yahweh's people have suffered far more than you can imagine.
<quoted text>
Whatever gets you to continue to avoid reality, big guy. I know how cults work. What I said before I still say. You are to weak to deal with reality, so you really may be better off being a member of a cult that has all the answers.
Babies are given milk because that is all they can handle. Maybe someday you will be ready for solid food, but that day is not today.
Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a Cult?

JESUS CHRIST was accused of being a drunkard, a glutton, a Sabbath breaker, a false witness, a blasphemer of God, and a messenger of Satan. He was also accused of being subversive.—Matthew 9:34; 11:19; 12:24; 26:65; John 8:13; 9:16; 19:12.

After Jesus’ death and resurrection, his disciples were likewise the target of serious accusations. One group of first-century Christians were dragged to the city rulers by people crying out:‘These men have overturned the inhabited earth.’(Acts 17:6) On another occasion the apostle Paul and his companion Silas were taken to the authorities and charged with greatly disturbing the city of Philippi.—Acts 16:20.

Paul was later accused of being a “pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth” and of trying “to profane the temple.”(Acts 24:5, 6) The principal men of the Jews in Rome accurately described the situation of Jesus’ followers when they acknowledged:“For truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against.”—Acts 28:22.

Evidently, this new group established by Jesus Christ was considered by some to be a religious group with radical views and practices that clashed with what was accepted in those days as normal social behavior. Undoubtedly, many today would have considered the Christians a destructive cult. The accusers were often prominent and respected members of the community, and this seems to have added weight to the allegations. Many believed the accusations against Jesus and his disciples. Yet, as you probably know, every one of these charges was false! The fact that people said these things did not make them true.

What about today? Would it be accurate to refer to Jehovah’s Witnesses as a religious group with radical views and practices that clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult?

Cont...
Student

Caborca, Mexico

#34024 Apr 22, 2013
What the Evidence Shows

A government official of the city of St. Petersburg, Russia, explained:“Jehovah’s Witnesses were presented to us as some kind of underground sect sitting in the darkness and slaughtering children and killing themselves.” However, the people of Russia have recently become better acquainted with the true nature of the Witnesses.

After working with Jehovah’s Witnesses in connection with an international convention, the same official observed:“Now I see normal, smiling people, even better than many people I know. They are peaceful and calm, and they love one another very much.” He added:“I really do not understand why people tell such lies about them.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not hold ritualistic meetings, nor is their worship cloaked in secrecy. Non-Witness author Julia Mitchell Corbett notes:“When they meet, usually more than once a week, in Kingdom Halls (their meeting sites are not called churches), most of their time is spent in Bible study and discussion.” Their meeting places are clearly marked with a sign. The meetings are open, and the general public is invited to attend. Unannounced guests are more than welcome.

The “Witnesses have earned the reputation of being honest, courteous, and industrious,” adds Corbett in her book Religion in America. Many who are not Witnesses readily acknowledge that there is nothing freakish or bizarre about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their conduct does not clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica accurately states that the Witnesses “insist upon a high moral code in personal conduct.”

The director of news and special projects for a television station in the United States wrote to Jehovah’s Witnesses in response to a biased report about the Witnesses on the TV news show 60 Minutes.

He said:“If more people lived the way your faith does, this nation wouldn’t be in the shape it is in. I am one newsman who knows that your organization is founded on love and a strong faith in the Creator. I want you to know that not all News people are as biased.”

Cont...
Student

Caborca, Mexico

#34025 Apr 22, 2013
A Well-Known Religion

Is it fair to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a small fringe religious group? In a sense, Jehovah’s Witnesses are few in number compared to some religions. However, recall what Jesus said:“Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”—Matthew 7:13, 14.

At any rate, the Witnesses are far from being a small fringe cult. In the spring of 1993, more than 11 million people attended the Witnesses’ Memorial of Christ’s death. But more important than their number are their moral character and exemplary behavior, which have brought them worldwide commendation. Undoubtedly this has been a factor in countries that have given them official recognition as a known, bona fide religion.

Outstanding is a recent ruling by the European Court of Human Rights. It declared that the Witnesses should enjoy freedom of thought, conscience, and religion and that they have the right to speak about their faith and teach it to others.

This would hardly be the case if Jehovah’s Witnesses were known to use deceptive and unethical techniques to recruit members or if they used manipulative methods to control the minds of their followers.

Multitudes around the world are well acquainted with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the millions of non-Witnesses who are studying the Bible with the Witnesses or who have studied with them at one time or another, we ask, Were there any attempts to brainwash you?

Did the Witnesses employ mind-control techniques on you?“No” would doubtless be your frank response. Obviously, if these methods had been used, there would be an overwhelming number of victims in contradiction to any argument in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Cont...

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