Nogales, Mexico

#33548 Feb 8, 2013
FARKEL wrote:
Still waiting for a scripture which supports the false teaching of jehovah's witnesses who claim that only 144,000 will go to Heaven.
You can spam and post all the cult garbage, but it only takes one sentence to post the scripture...
Revelation 14:3- And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders;


So the 144,000 are persons who die on earth as humans and are resurrected to heavenly life as spirit creatures, as Jesus was.(Romans 6:5)

When compared with the thousands of millions of persons who live on earth, they are, indeed, a “little flock.”

the “little flock” who go to heaven are not the only ones who receive salvation. As we have seen, they will have happy earthly subjects. Jesus referred to these as his “other sheep,” of whom “a great crowd” are even now serving God faithfully.—(John 10:16; Revelation 7:9, 15)

8- Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].

9- But take YOUR stand against him, solid in the faith, knowing that the same things in the way of sufferings are being accomplished in the entire association of YOUR brothers in the world.

10- But, after YOU have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called YOU to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish YOUR training, he will make YOU firm, he will make YOU strong.

11- To him be the might forever. Amen.
1 Peter 5:8-11

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#33549 Feb 9, 2013



There's only two requirements to become a jehovah's witness:

1. You must be really, really ignorant.

2. You must be really, really gullible.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#33550 Feb 9, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, by teaching that God is omnipresent Christendom has confused matters ,...[cut],,,...
It isn't Christendom that teaches that GOD is OMNIPRESENT although some churches might have started to teach of the OMNIPRESENT GOD that are closer to historical Christianity than those still immersed in the Roman hoax of Christianity.

Most of those churches who have built their foundation on the Roman hoax of Christianity reject the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel in preference to a pagan triune god based on pagan myths.

The historical Jesus was Jewish, and his GOD according to the Judaism he grew up with is OMNIPRESENT. If you reject the Jewish OMNIPRESENT GOD you reject the Jewish Jesus and you are unable to grasp his message which is based on the reality of the OMNIPRESENT GOD.

Here is the Jewish understanding of the GOD that Jesus grew up with:

According to Judaism, the existence of the OMNIPRESENT GOD is self evident and can be confirmed to be so as stated in Psalm 46:10 (New International Version)

"10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth."

Be still. That's all. Still the constant chatter of the mind and simply observe what is with all of your senses. This is true meditation and is not to be confused with the new age occult trances and guided visualizations that many people confuse with meditation

What you will experience will be impossible to put into words but it will allow you to understand how something as amazing as an OMNIPRESENT GOD can be real and will help you to get to KNOW The GOD that the historical Jesus told us to LOVE with our whole mind, our whole heart, and our whole soul.

You can't LOVE whom you do not know. This is the very real danger in the teachings of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and their imaginary god that Judge Rutherford created and claimed could only be approached indirectly through the faithful and discreet slave.

You can't even begin to LOVE an imaginary god! This holds true for the god of the Jehovah's Witnesses just as much as it does for the false triune god of what you call Christendom.

You can go with the Greek scriptures written several generations after the death of the historical Jesus and the triune god created to appeal to the Roman citizens, or you can stay with the god of Judge Rutherford.

But if you wish to be a true Christian, you will have to accept the GOD at the heart of the teachings of the historical Jesus, The God he grew up worshiping as a Jew.

I know that most people have trouble accepting the reality of the OMNIPRESENT GOD. It took many generations for the nation of Israel to do so.

Perhaps it will help you if you familiarize yourself with the latest scientific research into the nature of the Cosmos that is slowly confirming the reality of the OMNIPRESENT GOD.

Here is one site that attempts to explain in layman's terms the implications of Bell's theorem on entangled particles for humanity in our relationship to the OMNIPRESENT GOD:

And it isn't just Bell's theorem. There is also the work being done at CERN in attempting to detect the holographic matrix which is the foundation of all that exists that has been shown mathematically to be sound according to quantum physicist David Bohm.

It's interesting in that if you sum up what science has confirmed so far concerning the nature of the universe it is in keeping with the simple truth shared by the historical Jesus and other mystics throughout the earth.

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!


#33551 Feb 9, 2013
FARKEL wrote:
There's only two requirements to become a jehovah's witness:
1. You must be really, really ignorant.
2. You must be really, really gullible.
So, Revelation 14:3 means nothing to you?

Why is it, though, that only the 144,000 are able to learn the song mentioned at Revelation 14:3?

Because it has to do with their experiences as chosen heirs of God’s Kingdom. They alone are adopted as sons of God and anointed with holy spirit.

They alone are bought from the earth to become part of that heavenly Kingdom, and they alone “will be priests . . . and will rule as kings” with Jesus Christ for a thousand years to bring mankind to perfection.

They alone are seen to be “singing as if a new song” in the very presence of Jehovah. These unique experiences and prospects give them a singular appreciation of the Kingdom and enable them to sing about it in a way that no one else can.

(Revelation 20:6-Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

Colossians 1:13-He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,

1 Thessalonians 2:11, 12-
11- In harmony with that YOU well know how, as a father does his children, we kept exhorting each one of YOU, and consoling and bearing witness to YOU, 12- to the end that YOU should go on walking worthily of God who is calling YOU to his kingdom and glory.)

Magdalena, Mexico

#33552 Feb 11, 2013
Jesus taught his followers to be evangelizers, or preachers of the good news. At Pentecost 33 C.E., about 120 of these were anointed with holy spirit and became spiritual sons of God.(Acts 2:1-4, 14-42; Romans 8:14-16)

They too were commissioned to tell the good news to the meek and brokenhearted. Those 120 were the first of 144,000 to be anointed in this way. The final ones of this group are still active on earth today.

For about 2,000 years, anointed followers of Jesus have been witnessing “about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus.”(Acts 20:21)

Isaiah’s inspired message brought relief to repentant Jews in Babylon. In the days of Jesus and his disciples, it brought relief to Jews who were brokenhearted because of the wickedness in Israel and were languishing in captivity to the false religious traditions of first-century Judaism.(Matthew 15:3-6)

Today millions ensnared by Christendom’s pagan customs and God-dishonoring traditions are “sighing and groaning” because of the detestable things committed in that religious system.(Ezekiel 9:4)

Those who respond to the good news are liberated from that pitiable state.(Matthew 9:35-38) Their eyes of understanding are opened wide when they learn to worship Jehovah “with spirit and truth.”(John 4:24)

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#33553 Feb 14, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
So, Revelation 14:3 means nothing to you?
Revelation 14:3 does not state that only 144,000 will be in Heaven.

As usual, you cannot give scripture to support the cult's false doctrines.


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33554 Feb 14, 2013
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society made these claims & predictions...

They claim to be a Prophet.

Wt, 1/15/1959, pg 40, 41Whom has God actually used as his prophet?...Jehovah’s Witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them.
Wt, 4/1/1972, pg 197Who is this prophet?..Today they are known as Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Wt, 10/1/1982, pg 27...“prophet” class yet on earth. The “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har-Magedon could not start before this composite “prophet” ends his work.
Aw, 6/8/1986, pg 9,...all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

They claim to speak in Jehovah’s name.

The Nations shall know 1971, pg 58-62, a mouthpiece and active agent...... commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah...
Wt,3/15/1972, pg 189...commission to speak as a “prophet” in His name....
Wt,9/1/1979, pg 29,...those of the Jeremiah class have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name......back up their message by quoting the words,“This is what Jehovah has said.”

C. They claim to be the official mouthpiece and channel of Jehovah.

Zion’s Wt, 9/15/1895, pg 1867, reprint, God’s mouthpiece in.....
Zion’s Wt, 7/15/1906, pg 3821, reprint.....the truths I present, as God’s mouthpiece.....
Wt, 7/1/1943, pg 203He merely uses his "servant" class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it.
Wt, 7/1/1943, pg 205Jehovah speaks to us through his Son....He has appointed his "faithful and wise servant", who is his visible mouthpiece...These directions from the Lord come to us as individuals...
Informant(KM), 1/1956, pg 1,...And how does he speak? Through his appointed channel of communication- his collective congregation of anointed ones...the dispense Jehovah's communications.
Wt, 6/15/1957, pg 370identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day......respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is his provision.
Wt, 1/15/1959, pg 40, 41...Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his word in their mouths.
Wt, 7/15/1960, pg 439,...collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth.....
Wt, 9/1/1991, pg 19,...faithful and discreet slave has also been called God’s channel of communication,...
Wt, 2/1/1957, pg 79, 80, God interprets and teaches, through Christ the Chief Servant, who in turn uses the discreet slave as the visible channel, the viable theocratic organization...

They claim to have a chosen and secret organization with special knowledge and angelic transmission.

Vindication 1, 1931, pg 76 God’s organization is his chosen nation.
Preparation, 1933 ,pg 36, 37, 64 ...transmission of information to God’s anointed people...the angels transmit this information, we know that they do it; the scriptures and the facts show that it is done...convey the thoughts to their minds...To all on the outside of the organization of Jehovah his is a secret organization.
Holy Spirit 1976, pg 175, 176He put his word in the mouth of his chosen people ....He has put his word, his message of the hour, into the mouth of the spiritual remnant.
Wt, 10/15/1980, pg 17God gives his humble servants special knowledge that others do not have... having advance knowledge from Jehovah, his servants are equipped .....


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33555 Feb 14, 2013
They claim Jehovah instructed or used them on certain events.

Creation 1927, pg 121Because it was the Lord’s due time to restore these truths he used Charles T. Russell to write and publish books known as Studies in the Scriptures by which the great fundamental truths of the divine plan are clarified.

F. They claim they are the beloved wife of Jehovah and are our Mother.

Wt, 2/1/1952, pg 79, 80,...forsake the enlightening guidance of the organization that mothered us?“Forsake not the law of thy mother.”(Prov.6:20-23)....
Wt, 5/1/1957, pg 283, 284, respect for Jehovah’s organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
Wt, 7/1/1976, pg 400,....taught through his wifelike organization, their “mother”.....


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33556 Feb 14, 2013
G. They predicted the following dates as the battle of Armageddon.

Zion’s Wt, 1/15/1892, pg 1355, reprint...“battle” is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914.
The Time is at Hand, 1908, pg 101...the “battle of the great day of God Almighty”(Rev.16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914, with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.
The Finished Mystery, 1917, pg 398, 399, 485...the people who are the strength of Christendom shall be cut off in the brief but terribly eventful period beginning in 1918 A.D. A third part are “burned with fire in the mist of the city.”.....After 1918 the people supporting churchianity will cease to be its, supporters, be destroyed as adherents,...Also in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions....
Millions now Living Will Never Die, 1920, pg. 89, 90Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...."
Vindication 1, 1931, pg 146, 338, 339...years 1914,1918 and 1925 ..... they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on certain dates....
Informant, May 1940The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet because Armageddon is very near.
Wt, 9/15/1941, pg the remaining months before Armageddon.
Wt, 5/1/1968, pg 273Chart of dates 1975 end of 6th 1000-year day...2975 end of 7th 1000-year day....
Aw, 1/22/1969, pg 16Other Bible prophecies clearly foretell God’s purpose to bring this wicked system to an end in a few years.
Aw, 5/22/1969, pg 15If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things......all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!
Wt, 10/15/1969, pg 622, 623...seventh millennium from man’s creation by Jehovah God would begin in less than ten years.
The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, 1971, pg 216Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day if Jehovah" will begin against modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom.
Wt, 1/1/1989, pg 12 The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century.(This quote was later changed in the WT bound volume to: He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day.)
In 2010 the generation of 1914 that would not pass away has changed to overlapping generations. See Item I K

H. They blamed other religions for setting dates and called them false prophets.

Light 1930, pg 47,They have been prophesying particularly since 1918, and everyone knows that their prophecies to date have not come to pass; and that alone is strong evidence that they are false prophets.
Wt, 10/15/1958, pg 613,“Sometime between April 15 and 23, 1957, Armageddon will sweep the World!...” So prophesied a certain California pastor Mihran Ask, in January 1957.....Such false prophets tend to......
Aw, 10/8/1968, pg23...those in times past who predicted an “end of the world”, even announcing a specific date...they were guilty of false prophesying.



Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33557 Feb 14, 2013
Paradise Restored 1972, pg 353,354, Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having his own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide who they really are.
Wt, 6/15/1974, pg 381Similarly the “false prophet” is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A “prophet” claims to have inspired information for the direction of others.
Aw, 12/8/1981, pg 14, Since the Bible speaks about only “one faith,” All of today’s religious groups outside the one true faith must, according to this standard, be counterfeits, composite,“false prophets.


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33558 Feb 14, 2013
They predicted other events.

The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943 ,pg 285,....Man on earth can no more get rid of these demonic “heavens” than man can by airplane or rockets or other means get up above the air envelope...
Wt,7/15/1960, pg 444In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II ....“faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time.....

J. They say they are not a False Prophet.

Aw, 3/22/1993, pg 3, 4, They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name.......when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets....

K.The generation of 1914 that would not pass away has changed to overlapping generations.(Another failed prediction)

All the literature before 1995spoke of the generation that was 10-15 years old or born during 1914 would not pass away before Armageddon.
Wt, 11/1/1995, pg 14,... Jesus was not departing from his established use of the term “this generation” which he consistently applied to the contemporary masses.....
Wt, 11/1/1995, pg 17Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers to a contemporary people of a certain historical period.....
Wt, 11/1/1995, pg 19, Therefore, in the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy today,“this generation” apparently refers to the peoples of the earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways.
Wt, 4/15/2010 pg 10, He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.

III Charles Taze Russell dealt in pyramidology , astrology , sungod emblems and Masonic imagery.

A. Russell measured pyramid tunnels to verify his dates 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914 , 1915 and 1918, Rutherford continued this pyramidology until 1928 then said it was under the direction of Satan the Devil.

Jehovah’s Witnesses Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom 1993, pg 162, Has picture of a chart of the pyramids.See actual pull out chart from " Studies in the Scriptures, The Devine Plan Of The Ages Volume 1, 1910
Thy Kingdom Come 3, 1897,(Studies in Scriptures), pg 342, Then measuring down the “Entrance Passage”....3416 inches symbolizing 3416 years ....This calculation shows A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of trouble.....the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the times if trouble....
Thy Kingdom Come 3,1916,(Studies in Scriptures), pg 342, Then measuring down the “Entrance Passage”....3457 inches symbolizing 3457 years ....This calculation shows A.D. 1915 as marking the beginning of trouble....the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 was the chronological beginning of the times if trouble....
Zion’s Wt, 5/1881, pg 225, reprint,.....“grand gallery” measures 1874 inches long at the top.....Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874,1878,1881,) are marked by the pyramid, in ending the grand gallery.....
Zion’s Wt, 9/1881, pg 272, reprint, Diagram of measurements of pyramids.
The Divine Plan of the Ages, 1910,(Studies in Scriptures), pg front of book,Diagram of measurements of pyramids.
Wt, 10/1/1917, pg 6149,...refers to the Great Pyramid, the measurements of which confirm the Bible teaching that 1878 marked the beginning of the harvest of the....
Wt, 6/15/1922, pg 187,....passages of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh.... and at the same time proves the correctness of the chronology.
Wt, 5/15/1925, pg 148,....Pyramid of Egypt, standing as a silent and inanimate witness of the Lord, is a messenger....


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33559 Feb 14, 2013
Russell used Masonic imagery from the Knights Templar logo of the Masons as an emblem on the cover of the Watchtower.

Jehovah’s Witnesses Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom 1993, pg 88, Has a picture of emblem on Watchtower in upper left hand corner, it’s a cross & crown and a armored knight with two swords.See article Emblems used by the Watchtower Society

C. Russell used the symbol of the sungod Ra on the covers of his books.

Jehovah’s Witnesses Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, 1993, pg 88, Has a picture the books “The Finished Mystery” and “ Pastor Russell’s Sermons” with the symbol on it.(See scanned copy of "The Divine Plan of The Ages" and "The Finished Mystery" with the sungod Ra symbol)
Jehovah’s Witnesses Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, 1993, pg 651, Has a picture the book “The Finished Mystery” with the symbol on it.

D. Russell wrote about Astrology.

Zion’s Wt, 5/01/1903, pg 3184, reprint We seriously question all the claims of Astrology; yet the following-from whatever source the suggestions come, even though of the Adversary himself-seem remarkably true to our expectations based upon the Word of the Lord, For this reason alone we present them here as follows:-“Saturn is the representative of the great motive power that has dominated the mind of man up to the present time......Saturn-God to save his Throne......Jupiter, representing law, religion and morality........Jupiter must also transfer his allegiance from grasping Saturn to the newly discovered factor that stands for universal brotherhood; namely, Uranus. When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914......Uranus is preparing the way for Neptune, who symbolizes Love in it’s very highest form - the fulfilling of the law.” In 1903 Jupiter will be in the Sign of Pisces-sign of the feet, or understanding.....
Zion’s Wt, 5/15/1895, pg 1814, reprint,....system of planets....common center,-the group Pleides, And the reasonable suggestion has been made that the center may be the heavens of the heavens, the highest heaven, the throne of God.
Wt, 6/15/1915, pg 5710, For this reason the suggestion has been made that the Pleides may represent the residence of Jehovah, the place from which he governs the universe.
Creation, 1927, pg 94, The face of the deep , of course, would be toward Pleiades, which are claimed to be the habitation of Jehovah.
Reconciliation, 1928, pg 14....It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of the group is the dwelling place of Jehovah.

IV The 1914 date is based on the fall of Jerusalem in 607 B.C. during King Nebuchadnezzar’s time.

A. It was taught for years that Jerusalem fell in 606 B.C. then quietly changed to 607 B.C. so the numbers would add up.

Riches 1936, pg 60 Jerusalem fell in 606 B.C.
Enemies 1937, pg 216, Jerusalem fell in 606 B.C.
The Truth Shall Make You Free 1943, pg 236, Jerusalem fell in 606 B.C.
This Means Everlasting Life 1950 ,pg 204 Jerusalem fell in 607 B.C.


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33560 Feb 14, 2013
B. All Encyclopedias disagree with the 607 B.C. date. All historians point to a date twenty years later.

Britannica No 23 Knowledge in Depth, pg 885, The city fell in 587/586 and was completely destroyed.
The book of Knowledge 1991, book 10, pg 104, In 586 B.C., Jerusalem fell to the conquering Babylonians.
The World book on Encyclopedia, 1990, book II, pg 99,In 587 or 586 B.C., the Babylonians conquered Judah and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem.
Encyclopedia Americana, 1995, book21, pg 304,...survived until 587 B.C, when King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylonia destroyed Jerusalem and annexed Palestine.
Merit Students Encyclopedia, 1987, No 10, pg 159, In 597 B.C., King Nebuchadnezzar II, of Babylonia captured Jerusalem, and in 586 B.C., after a Jewish rebellion, he destroyed the city and took many of its inhabitants....

C. Ten of thousand of clay cuneiform tablets were found in Mesopotamian area to back up the 587/586 B.C. as the all of Jerusalem.

United States

#33561 Feb 14, 2013
It is sad to see otherwise intelligent humans fight each other over what is, when you get right down to it different versions of the same delusion.
Humankind would be better served by using our amazing powers to make the world we live in now a better place.
We are wasting precious time and energy studying and debating this topic of "whose god is the right god". As a species made the way we were, our bickering over this invisible "god" will cause our own demise by our own hands.
We will get the "Armegeddon" we predicted because we talked and argued ourselves right into it. We are fighting and killing over ...IDEAS. WORDS.
I weep for the human race and the fact that we are going to wipe out our own future with our own hands, because of our own thoughts. WE are the ones poisoning ourselves against ourselves. We will SELF-extinct before any asteroid hits us.

It's time to throw out this old bible. The bible is a tool of mass self-destruction. The bible and other books like it have confused and agitated the human mind so much that we have become schizophrenic and violent against ourselves. We have used these books to make ourselves so miserable that we are now talking ourselves off the cliff of suicide called "Armegeddon" just like lemmings off a cliff.
Why are religions so focused on death and heaven instead of life right here on earth, which we have the power to change? Why does being human have to be so horrible that we make up stories of heavens and gods and eternal life? LIES only add to the misery!
NOW IS THE TIME for a NEW book, a NEW NEW testamant.
We can write a new future for ourselves. If we can trick ourselves into Armegeddon, we can sure delude ourselves into Utopia! Let's try it, at least, and if that doesn't work, let's make sure to have plenty of nukes so we can finally put our species to an end once and for all before we destroy the whole universe.

United States

#33562 Feb 14, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses are the primary Armegeddon instigators.
Their true dream is of a world with only Jehovah's Witnesses in it, and everyone else dead.
The problem is, all those others people are in the way, you know, all those other Christians that "are not real, just apostates going to hell" all those Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, Atheists, etc".
They will go as far as to create this Armegeddon to get their way.
It is disgusting and sick and the Jehovah's Witness organization needs to be classified as TERRORISTS.

United States

#33563 Feb 14, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses vs the Roman Catholic Church: Who will win the Armegeddon contest?
Who will begin Armegeddon first?

Nogales, Mexico

#33564 Feb 15, 2013
FARKEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation 14:3 does not state that only 144,000 will be in Heaven.
As usual, you cannot give scripture to support the cult's false doctrines.
no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

Where do you think these hundred and forty four thousand are if they are not in heaven?


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33565 Feb 15, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.
Where do you think these hundred and forty four thousand are if they are not in heaven?
Oh, you want to SPECULATE!!

But you still have not shown a scripture which states that Heaven is limited to only 144,000!

It must be a real bummer trying to defend the lies of your fake religion.


Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#33566 Feb 15, 2013
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have this book “The New Creation"


But, being a servant of Satan, I doubt that you even care.

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#33567 Feb 15, 2013
Revelation 7 defines the 144,000 are a class of "kings and priests", so there is no issue in claiming these are a smaller group than the Great Crowd. However, there are aspects of this Watchtower doctrine that merit consideration.

The number 144,000 is mentioned just twice in the Bible.

Revelation 7:3,4 - ""Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel."

Revelation 14:1, 4-5 - "And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads....These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."

jehovah's witnesses make the false claim that in these Scriptures the number 144,000 is literal, but all other descriptors of them are figurative, saying that they are not literally:

from the tribes of Israel
having the name of Lamb and Father on their foreheads
holding no falsehood on their mouths
without blemish

In such a figurative passage there is no strong reason to believe that the number 144,000 is any less figurative.

Closer inspection of Revelation also shows that this group are not collected over a two thousand year period, but rather the entire group reside on earth at the time of the great tribulation. Revelation 7:4 says that the winds are held back, not to seal the remnant, but rather to seal a 144,000 sons of Israel.

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