Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple...

Since: Apr 10

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#33418 Jan 26, 2013
Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) claim that their modern day history began in the late 1800's when Charles Taze Russell founded the Watch Tower Tract Society.

Until recently Jehovah's Witnesses have not discussed much 18th century Adventism as the source of Russell's beliefs.

The evidence indicates that Russell got most of his ideas on theology and chronology (historic premillennialism) from the writings and teachings of numerous Adventists.

Russell became a Second Adventist and the "Bible Student" movement Russell founded became an Adventist sect or offshoot. Likewise, the Jehovah's Witnesses of today are an offshoot of Russell's Adventist cult.

Since: Apr 10

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#33419 Jan 26, 2013
C. T. Russell was born in 1852 in Allegheny, Pennsylvania in the US. He grew up in the Presbyterian faith with his father reportedly a high level Mason as well. He later joined a Congregationalist church. Troubled by his church's teaching on hell and other topics, he apparently became a skeptic during his teen years. This reportedly occurred as a result of Russell trying to convert an "infidel" to Christianity at the age of sixteen. In the words of one commentator, "The infidel thoroughly routed the young Russell, and he became a skeptic. He saw, for instance, that with the doctrine of eternal torment in it he could not believe in the Bible."

At the age of eighteen in about 1869 he attended a Second Adventist church meeting held by Jonas Wendell, in Russell's words, "to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches." 2 More "sensible" than the eternal punishment doctrine apparently. This meeting helped re-establish his faith in the Bible (Adventists believe in soul sleep).

After this, Russell soon started a Bible study with some relatives and associates. This included his father who had previously become interested in Adventism (around the time of C. T.'s skepticism). Not surprisingly, one of the first things discovered by the group was there was no eternal punishment or hell as traditionally conceived. Gruss noted, "according to his own position as cited by Stewart, Russell had to eliminate the doctrine of eternal punishment to believe the Bible... The Bible was studied" with this in mind. "It is strikingly strange for one to study the Bible starting from this point," he said.

During the time of his Bible study, Russell was influenced heavily by several Adventists such as George Storrs, Jonas Wendell, George Stetson and Nelson Barbour. Other possible influences were Christadelphians, the Lutheran minister Joseph Seiss and possibly Freemasonry. The Watchtower Society has in more recent years admitted this Adventist influence on Russell, stating for example that Russell "learned much of the mortality of the soul" (soul sleep) from George Storrs. Russell himself acknowledged his indebtedness to Adventists such as Stetson, Storrs, Wendell and Barbour. Thus, even according to the Society today, Russell learned "much" about theology including soul sleep from Adventists, not from the Bible alone. Russell's Bible study group seems to have been an Adventist oriented study. In fact, according to Jonsson, Russell's Bible study group had numerous and close contacts with certain Adventists, including a group under the leadership of Jonas Wendell in Allegheny and George Storrs' congregation in New York.

Much of Russell's theology came from these and earlier Adventists. Some of Russell's beliefs can be traced back to the very beginning of the Second Advent movement started by William Miller, such as certain time calculations and some of Russell's type/antitype hermeneutics.

Since: Apr 10

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#33420 Jan 26, 2013
One major influence on Russell's beliefs during this time was Nelson Barbour of Rochester, New York. Barbour was the publisher of the Adventist magazine, The Midnight Cry which had a circulation of 15,000. It proclaimed that Jesus would return visibly in 1874. When Jesus didn't return, Barbour was at first puzzled. His readership "dwindled to about 300" as a result. 8 One of The Midnight Cry's readers was B.W. Kieth who later became a contributing writer to Russell's Watch Tower magazine. He noted that in Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott Greek/English interlinear translation of Matthew 24, the word parousia translated as coming was rendered as "presence." It was suggested that Barbour had the date of Christ's return right (1874) but had expected the wrong thing (a visible return). Barbour believed that Jesus was invisibly "present" since 1874. Most of his readers didn't accept this explanation of his prediction of Christ's return, resulting in his readership dwindling as noted above. However, one person who did accept this explanation was Charles Russell.

In October of 1874, The Midnight Cry ceased publication. In 1875 the magazine was restarted as Herald of the Morning. After receiving a copy of the Herald magazine in about 1876, Russell was impressed with Barbour's "invisible presence" views on Christ's coming (which Russell apparently came to believe independently from Barbour) and he accepted much of his chronological views. His acceptance of Barbour's chronology came about in the following manner: After reading the Herald, Russell wrote to Barbour about his chronology. Later in 1876, Russell arranged a meeting with him in Philadelphia to see if he could convince him, in Russell's words, "that the prophecies indicated 1874 as the date at which the Lord's presence and the 'harvest' began." "The evidence satisfied me," Russell said.

Jonson noted:

It is apparent that during these meetings Russell accepted all of Barbour's time calculations, including his calculation of the Gentile times. While still in Philadelphia, Russell wrote an article entitled "Gentile Times: When do They End?" which was published in George Storrs' periodical the Bible Examiner in the October 1876 issue.

Barbour and Russell soon became partners in publishing Herald of the Morning, Russell becoming an assistant editor of the Adventist magazine.

Since: Apr 10

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#33421 Jan 26, 2013
In 1877, Barbour wrote and published the book, Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (Also called, Three Worlds: Or Plan of Redemption). It listed C.T. Russell as the co-publisher. Barbour though was the sole writer of the book. 12 In it, Barbour set forth his Adventist views on Millennial theology and chronology.

On theology, he taught in the book, as Russell would later in The Watch Tower, that the Church and Jesus together constituted The Christ (pp. 5-6). Jesus and His bride, the Church, constituted the "Second Adam and Eve" (p. 11). The church will become Gods, in fact, they would "become part of the Godhead" (p. 13). This Christ or God class would redeem humanity during the "probationary" period of the Millennium (p. 10) and thus become the "spiritual mother" of the rest of mankind (p. 16). These 144,000 "spiritual beings" would "materialize" as men on earth at will during their Millennial reign or remain invisible while on earth, thereby keeping tabs on the spiritual development of mankind during this period (pp. 43 47). Mankind's worship would in part consist of serving and obeying these "rulers" or "instructors" in the Millennium (p. 68).

On chronology, Barbour set forth his view that the "6,000 years" from Adam's creation ended in 1873 (pp. 76-77). Jesus returned in 1874, and the "Harvest" would be from 1874 to 1914. 1914 would see the end of the "Gentile Times," the setting up of the kingdom of God on earth, etc. In the chapter on "The Times of The Gentiles" Barbour wrote (pp. 83, 84):

Hence, it was in B. C. 606, that God's kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B. C. 606, will end in A.D. 1914, or forty years from 1874; and this forty years upon which we have now entered is to be such "a time of trouble as never was since there was a nation." And during this forty years, the kingdom of God is to be set up.(But not in the flesh, "the natural first and afterwards the spiritual)," the Jews are to be restored, the Gentile kingdoms broken to pieces "like a potter's vessel." and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ, and the judgment age introduced.

These are some of the events this generation are to witness.... I am not willing to admit that this calculation is even one year out.

Since: Apr 10

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#33422 Jan 26, 2013
All of this Russell carried with him with little modification when he started Zion's Watch Tower magazine in 1879.

However, exactly from whom he got his doctrines is not known as many of his Adventist associates believed in many of these views prior to Russell in addition to Barbour.

Penton stated that Russell got his beliefs in the "ransom" doctrine, the paradise earth "restitution" doctrine, "negative feelings" towards the churches, conditionalism (soul sleep) and celebrating the "Lord's Supper" or "Memorial" once a year on "Nissan 14" from the Second Adventist, George Storrs.

(all of these false beliefs and false teachings of the jehovah's witnesses today, are without scriptural support and originate with evil spirits)

As stated above, current Watchtower writers also admit that Russell "learned much" about soul sleep from Storrs.

Since: Apr 10

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#33423 Jan 26, 2013
The role the Lutheran minister Joseph Seiss had on Russell's teachings, if any, is even less clear. It is clear Russell was aware of Seiss' book on Pyramidology, A Miracle in Stone, as he quoted it favorably in his Thy Kingdom Come in the chapter on Pyramidology. 14

Penton stated Carl Olof Jonsson demonstrated that Henry Drumond in 1828 first advocated the idea of an invisible second presence of Christ with his "two-stage coming doctrine." This was picked up later by Seiss and Jonsson concludes Russell probably "plagiarized" the works of Seiss in his "invisible presence" doctrine in his Object and Manner of Our Lord's Return booklet. 15 However, Crompton noted a similar view held in 1815 :

Of particular note...was James Hately Frere who, in 1815, had published A Combined View of the Prophecies of Daniel, Esdras, and St. John, in which he expressed the belief that the second coming would be not a literal event but a spiritual one and would take place in 1822-3....it was a similar view to that of Frere that was to become an important part of Russell's belief system later in the century.

Penton also claimed that Seiss believed Jesus was not resurrected in the flesh, but as a spirit, something JW's believe to this day. Seiss also produced other books such as The Gospel in the Stars on a Christianized Astrology. Seiss had numerous occult/fringe beliefs, many of which were also believed by Adventists, including Russell. Exactly who influenced who is now hard to determine. In any case, by the late 1800's, Russell was clearly a Second Adventist. It is clear that he shared many beliefs with the Adventists of his day, associated with several of them and even helped edit and publish Adventist material before starting his own Adventist publication.

Again, none of this is based on scripture, but is the work of evil spirits.

YET, people embrace this as a religion. It is so sad that people lose any chance of knowing the real God who died for our sins.

Since: Apr 10

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#33424 Jan 26, 2013
In addition to these influences, Russell was, apparently, a high level Freemason. What effect this had on his views is unknown. That his involvement in Masonry at least surfaced in his works is demonstrated by several Masonic symbols Russell used on his publications such as the "Cross and Crown" symbol and others on the Watch Tower covers, and the supposed 330 Masonic "winged-sun-disc" emblem from Egyptian mythology which adorned the covers of the 1911 and following editions of the Studies in the Scriptures. The fact that Russell put the Masonic symbols on his literature's covers appears to indicate that he was broadcasting to other Masons his involvement in the "secret society," thus it was apparently an important part of his life and beliefs and something researchers of Russell should exam

Since: Apr 10

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#33425 Jan 26, 2013
A doctrinal dispute between Russell and Barbour over the atonement resulted in Russell ending his partnership with Barbour and publishing his own magazine, Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence in 1879. When Russell left, he took many of Barbour's readers with him, including J.H. Paton, the Herald magazine's other assistant editor. He continued with Barbour's chronology of 1874 being the date of Christ's invisible return, 1799 as the start of the time of the end and 1914 as the "end of the Gentile Times" as well as the numerous Adventist Millennial teachings discussed above.

Paton contributed many articles to The Watch Tower for several years. Some of these were still from a Trinitarian perspective, stating for example that Jesus was not Michael the Archangel 18 but "God manifest in the flesh."

Russell encouraged Paton to write a book to replace Barbour's Three Worlds for Watch Tower readers which he did (Day Dawn). A doctrinal dispute with Russell over the Atonement or "ransom" doctrine caused Paton to leave. After he and Paton parted ways, Russell produced his own book, The Plan of the Ages (later called The Divine Plan of the Ages) as the first volume of his Millennial Dawn series (later changed to Studies in the Scriptures). Russell soon became the remaining major teacher among the "Bible Students." He became an Arian and wrote numerous articles against Trinitarianism, etc. further distancing himself and the Bible Students from the mainline churches and even the Adventist churches.

Since: Apr 10

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#33426 Jan 26, 2013
As did some Adventists before him, Russell increasingly viewed all other churches as apostate and his movement was part of the "restoration" of the truth that had been largely lost for centuries. His views and literature as a result became more and more important in his and his follower's eyes. The Bible Student movement and Russell's teaching soon became synonymous with the "Truth."

Russell's writings took on greater importance and significance as time went on. By 1906 Russell was saying:

Many are the inquiries relative to the truths presented in MILLENNIAL DAWN and ZION'S WATCH TOWER, as to whence they came...Were they the result of visions? Did God in any supernatural way grant the solution to these hitherto mysteries of his plan.... how comes this revelation of God's truths?.... No, dear friends, I claim nothing of superiority, nor supernatural power, dignity or authority; nor do I aspire to exalt myself in the estimation of my brethren of the household of faith, except in the sense that the Master urged, saying, "Let him who would be great among you be your servant,".... No, the truths I present, as God's mouthpiece, were not revealed in visions or dreams, nor by God's audible voice, nor all at once, but gradually.... Neither is this clear unfolding of truth due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out.

Since: Apr 10

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#33427 Jan 26, 2013
While on the one hand claiming no special "authority," Russell clearly desired to be the "servant" in the estimation of the "household of faith." He claimed to be the "mouthpiece" of God. The "due time" had come to restore the truth lost for millennia and God had chosen him alone. He alone was publishing the "meat" in "due season" by the early 1900's and if no one other than him could be found to speak for God, the very stones would have a hissy fit and speak for God themselves, apparently. While others before him paved the way in giving the "midnight cry," such as Miller and Barbour, Russell believed he was finally chosen as the one in restoring true Biblical teaching. By 1910, for example, he wrote the following infamous comments about his literature's importance:

The plan of reading twelve pages of the STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES each day, tried by so many, results in more Bible study than any other way we know of....

Furthermore, not only do we find that people can not see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURES STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years&endash;if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures....

While saying everyone needed to decide for himself, etc., Russell clearly wanted everyone to "study" the Bible solely from his writings. No one could even see the so-called "divine plan" from reading the Bible, you had to read his book, The Divine Plan of the Ages with your Bible next to you to look up the proof texts. Reading the Bible alone would lead to spiritual darkness. All this derived logically from his self-appraisal of being "God's mouthpiece" and the "servant" to the entire "household of faith" combined with his view that the rest of the churches were apostate. These developments further alienated the churches and Adventist groups from Russell and his movement (and vice versa).

Since: Apr 10

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#33428 Jan 26, 2013
Likewise, the Watchtower Society under the leadership of "Judge" Rutherford, Fred Franz, and others has continued to evolve into an exclusivist sect and has distanced itself further, not only from the mainline churches, but from many of Russell's teachings and thus from the various Bible Student groups. The Bible Student groups today all adhere more closely to Russell's teachings than does the Watchtower Society he founded. The Society stopped publishing his Studies in the Scriptures in 1928.

Many Bible Students believe for the most part that the Society has become apostate as it no longer believes in many of Russell's teachings as espoused in his Studies. As Russell warned about those who would do such a thing, the Society has gone into spiritual darkness.

JW's are viewed by many Bible Students as part of the Whore of Babylon and tell JW's to "get out of her my people."

JW's are happy to return the favor as they believe the Bible Students are still stuck on the "old light" of "Pastor" Russell and thus haven't kept up with the latest "light" or "present truth." Thus JW's are no longer "Russellites" or followers of Russell as detractors have called them and they used to proudly call themselves.

Russell is no longer viewed by the Watchtower Society as the "faithful and wise servant" alone serving the "meat in due season" or proper explanation of the Scriptures as they taught until 1927.

They have gone back to the original view that the "servant" is a class of people, the 144,000, of which Russell was only one. The truth is still being progressively revealed to the modern "remnant" of the 144,000 who are currently leading the corporation Russell founded. Russell is viewed by JW's today as the founder of their movement who helped revive the truth and separated them from Babylon the Great, but who taught many things that are no longer the "truth' as the "light has grown brighter" since his day. JW's therefore do not and are not encouraged to read Russell's material at all, except the brief quotations provided by the Society's writers in their current publications.

To illustrate how far JW's have evolved from Russell's beginnings, if Russell were alive today and attended a Kingdom Hall, and still advocated the beliefs he held to when he died, he would be shunned and disfellowshipped from the Society he founded. Crompton concluded that Russell's chronological system was an almost complete "replacement" of Miller's system and the current JW system is a "replacement" of Russell's system with a different one.

Jehovah's Witnesses therefore can be categorized as an Adventist and Russellite offshoot. JW's are a group that can attribute their existence to Charles Russell who's beliefs, in turn, came from the Second Advent movement of the 1800's. While retaining much from Adventism and Russellism, JW's no longer accept much of either system's teachings and thus do not fellowship with either group or consider them brethren. Both groups are just as apostate to JW's as any others in Christendom.

If a JW were to visit an Adventist or Bible Student church meeting, he/she could be disfellowshipped for apostasy.

Since: Apr 10

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#33429 Jan 26, 2013
Is Michael Jesus Christ?

Yes, according to Ellen G. White (EGW), the Seventh-day Adventist's prophet, and also taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Evangelical Christianity has rejected the teaching that Michael is Christ, because it is not Biblical.

It may surprise you to learn that there are only five references in the entire Bible to Michael, and not one reference names Michael as Jesus Christ.

Michael reference one; "one of the chief princes."

Dan 10:13 (NIV) But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

EGW: "For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed, Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid." Prophets and Kings, p.572

The Bible identifies Michael as the one that came to Gabriel's aid and Ellen White contends that it was Christ that came to Gabriel's aid.

Notice: Michael "is one" of the chief princes, which places him in a group of other chief princes. How large that group is we are not told.

Michael is in a group of equals. Michael could not be Christ, as Christ is not described as one of equals. Christ is described in John 3:16, as "one and only Son." The Greek for "only" is, "monogenes," one of a kind or unique one. Again this shows that Michael cannot be Christ.

Michael references two, three; "your prince" and "the great prince."

Dan 10:21 (NIV)...but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth.(No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.

Dan 12:1 (NIV)“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Notice: The three references to Michael in Daniel are: "one of the chief princes," "your prince," and "the great prince." Christ is never referred to, as one of the chief princes, your prince or the great prince in the Bible. Jesus is called, "Prince of peace," — Isa. 9:6, and "Prince and Savior" — Acts 5:31. As one can see, the titles of Michael and Jesus are not the same.

Since: Apr 10

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#33430 Jan 26, 2013
Michael reference four; "archangel."

Jude 1:9 (NIV) But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said,“The Lord rebuke you!”

2 Pet 2:11 (NIV)...yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.

Michael an angel, did the work of angels as outlined in 2 Peter, as he did not bring a slanderous accusation against the devil.

Jude does not identify the archangel Michael, as Christ. But what is an archangel?

From Strong's Dictionary, 743. "archaggelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel."

Archangel means a chief angel. Michael therefore is a chief angel. Jesus is not a chief angel, or a created being, but Commander over the angels. He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Michael said to the devil, "the Lord rebuke you." Michael as archangel (chief angel) a created being, does not have authority to rebuke the devil in disputing over the body of Moses, so he invokes the Lord's name.

EGW: "Satan the tempter had claimed the body of Moses because of his sin; but Christ the Saviour brought him forth from the grave." Desire of Ages, p.421.

EGW: Moses passed through death, but Michael came down and gave him life before his body had seen corruption. Satan tried to hold the body, claiming it as his; but Michael resurrected Moses and took him to heaven. Satan railed bitterly against God, denouncing Him as unjust in permitting his prey to be taken from him; but Christ did not rebuke His adversary, though it was through his temptation that the servant of God had fallen. He meekly referred him to His Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." Early Writings, p. 164.

Ellen makes non-Biblical claims about Moses' body such as; Michael gave Moses life before his body had seen corruption. Jesus restored Lazarus to life after his body started decaying and after four days in the grave. Why did God believe it was necessary for the "remnant church" to have this startling piece of news, that Moses was resurrected before his body started to decay?

In another confrontation with Satan

Zech 3:1-2 (NIV) Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. The LORD said to Satan,“The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

Joshua is standing before the angel of the Lord. The term, "angel of the LORD" used in the O T is often seen as Christ. In this text without a doubt, it is the Lord that rebukes Satan. The Bible never refers to the Lord as the archangel Michael. Michael is never called "the angel of the LORD."



Voice of the archangel

1 Thess 4:16 (NIV) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Jesus comes "with" the voice of the archangel. Doesn't this prove that Jesus is Michael? No. The fact is all the angels accompany Jesus at his Second Coming, which would include Michael the archangel. Thus Michael's voice will be heard, along with the trumpet call of the Lord. The Lord will have the voice of the archangel which will give an archangelic shout that will raise the dead.

2 Thess 1:7 (NIV)...and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

Since: Apr 10

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#33431 Jan 26, 2013
Jamieson-Faussett-Brown Commentary on the Whole Bible

Verse 9. Michael, the archangel—Nowhere in Scripture is the plural used,“archangels”; but only ONE,“archangel.” The only other passage in the New Testament where it occurs, is 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Christ is distinguished from the archangel, with whose voice He shall descend to raise the dead; they therefore err who confound Christ with Michael. The name means, Who is like God? In Daniel 10:13 he is called “One (‘the first,’ Margin) of the chief princes.” He is the champion angel of Israel. In Revelation 12:7 the conflict between Michael and Satan is again alluded to.

about the body of Moses—his literal body. Satan, as having the power of death, opposed the raising of it again, on the ground of Moses’ sin at Meribah, and his murder of the Egyptian. That Moses’ body was raised, appears from his presence with Elijah and Jesus (who were in the body) at the Transfiguration: the sample and earnest of the coming resurrection kingdom, to be ushered in by Michael’s standing up for God’s people. Thus in each dispensation a sample and pledge of the future resurrection was given: Enoch in the patriarchal dispensation, Moses in the Levitical, Elijah in the prophetical.

It is noteworthy that the same rebuke is recorded here as was used by the Angel of the Lord, or Jehovah the Second Person, in pleading for Joshua, the representative of the Jewish Church, against Satan, in Zechariah 3:2; whence some have thought that also here “the body of Moses” means the Jewish Church accused by Satan, before God, for its filthiness, on which ground he demands that divine justice should take its course against Israel, but is rebuked by the Lord who has “chosen Jerusalem”: thus, as “the body of Christ” is the Christian Church, so “the body of Moses” is the Jewish Church. But the literal body is evidently here meant (though, secondarily, the Jewish Church is typified by Moses’ body, as it was there represented by Joshua the high priest); and Michael, whose connection seems to be so close with Jehovah-Messiah on the one hand, and with Israel on the other, naturally uses the same language as his Lord. As Satan (adversary in court) or the devil (accuser) accuses alike the Church collectively and “the brethren” individually, so Christ pleads for us as our Advocate. Israel’s, and all believers’ full justification, and the accuser’s being rebuked finally, is yet future. Josephus [Antiquities,4.8], states that God hid Moses’ body, lest, if it had been exposed to view, it would have been made an idol of. Jude, in this account, either adopts it from the apocryphal “assumption of Moses”(as Origen [Concerning Principalities, 3.2] thinks), or else from the ancient tradition on which that work was founded. Jude, as inspired, could distinguish how much of the tradition was true, how much false. We have no such means of distinguishing, and therefore can be sure of no tradition, save that which is in the written word.

durst not—from reverence for Satan’s former dignity (Jude 8).

Since: Apr 10

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#33433 Jan 26, 2013
As shown, the evil and wicked cult of jehovah's witnesses teach lies.

A religion which teaches lies is a false religion.

Since: Apr 10

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#33434 Jan 26, 2013
One of the reasons the evil and wicked cult of jehovah's witnesses exist is simply because people do not know Jesus Christ.

IS THE NEW COVENANT ONLY FOR A GROUP OF 144,000 PEOPLE?—15 Questions to Ask Jehovah’s Witnesses on the 144,000 and the Great Crowd

Of all of the doctrinal topics one can discuss with Jehovah’s Witnesses, nothing is more essential than the identity of Jesus Christ and the issues related to salvation and eternal life.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have a two-class system of salvation in which they divide their followers into two groups.

They call the first group the “little flock” and limit it to 144,000 members, and they call the second group the “great crowd” which is open to the rest of the population of mankind. When examining what they believe about this two-class system of salvation, it is here that we discover the greatest hole in Watchtower theology because there is not a single Scripture that supports their unique views on this issue.

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that all of the privileges associated with the New Covenant belong only to the first group of 144,000 people. It is claimed that most of the followers in this first group (with few exceptions) have been appointed between Pentecost 33 A.D. and the year 1935. 1. The New Covenant privileges given to this group of 144,000 include the ability to be born again, to be spiritually adopted into God’s family, to be able to approach Jesus as personal “Mediator” between them and God, the ability to partake in the Lord’s Evening Meal (Lord’s Supper), and the hope of resurrection to life in heaven.

Since the majority of Jehovah’s Witness today are told that they do not belong to this group of 144,000, most consider themselves members of the second group, the “great crowd. They do not believe the New Covenant privileges apply to them. Rather, they are taught to view the Mediator relationship between Jesus Christ and the 144,000 as extending only two benefits to them—namely, the forgiveness of sins and the opportunity to approach God in prayer. Thus, most of the people in this second group are content to consider a resurrection to earthly life under the rule of Jesus Christ and His 144,000 “little flock” as the highest spiritual level to which they may attain.

One can easily see how viewing salvation through this two-class system causes most Jehovah’s Witnesses to discount the majority of the New Covenant promises given in the Bible. This creates a serious problem because the Bible is very clear that if one excludes himself from the New Covenant, he excludes himself from eternal life and places himself beyond the saving forgiveness offered in the blood of Christ. Using the following questions and verses listed below, one can easily demonstrate to a Jehovah’s Witness the seriousness of their spiritual views on this two-class system of salvation:

Since: Apr 10

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#33435 Jan 26, 2013
QUESTIONS TO ASK JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ON THE 144,000 AND THE GREAT CROWD

1. Where in the Bible does it say that the 144,000 are the ONLY people in heaven?

Revelation 7:3-8 and Revelation 14:1-5 are the ONLY two passages in the Bible that mention the 144,000. While Revelation 14:3 describes the 144,000 as being before the throne of God in heaven, Jehovah’s Witnesses have a hard time trying to prove from this verse that this group is the ONLY group of people in heaven because the Bible NEVER says this. By asking the above question, you will help them realize that the Watchtower has built an entire theology with NO Scriptural backing! To further emphasize this point, when they appeal to these and any other Scriptures to try to support their beliefs about a two-class system of salvation, follow-up by repeatedly asking the above question. The examples given below will help you respond to their common objections:

OBJECTION 1: Jehovah’s Witnesses may argue that heaven has to be limited to 144,000 because if every Christian goes to heaven, there will be no people left upon the earth for the heavenly group to rule “over” when paradise earth becomes a reality under the 1,000 year reign of Christ. In response to this objection, simply ask:

Don’t you believe there will be earthly survivors of God’s Battle of Armageddon? Why can’t resurrected Christians rule over them? Since these survivors will continue to have children with successive generations populating the new earth, don’t you think there will be plenty of people on earth for Christians to rule over for the entire 1,000-year reign of Christ without limiting heaven to only 144,000 people?

Most Jehovah’s Witnesses will see your point and agree that Armageddon survivors will provide enough people for Christians to rule over from heaven.

But whether they agree to this or not, continue to press them for Biblical proof for their views by asking your question again:

“Where in the Bible does it say that the 144,000 are the ONLY people in heaven?”

Since: Apr 10

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#33436 Jan 26, 2013
OBJECTION 2: They may quote John 3:13 that says:“Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”

This is used to try to prove that since no person went to heaven before Jesus Christ, heaven is not meant for the majority of humankind.

This is an easy objection to answer because Jesus is the One who paid the price for sin so that mankind would be able to dwell in God’s presence (in heaven). This is why no human went to heaven prior Christ.

Thus, this verse does NOT prove that the 144,000 are the only people in heaven, nor does it prove that heaven was not designed for humans to dwell in after death.

Remind them that Jesus said He would go to prepare a place in heaven for His followers (John 14:2-3).

So again you can ask,“Where does it say in the Bible that heaven is limited to ONLY 144,000 people?”

Since: Apr 10

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#33437 Jan 26, 2013
OBJECTION 3: They (JWs) may argue that since God created the earth for the righteous to dwell in “forever”(Psalm 37:29), He intends for people to dwell “forever” upon the earth in their resurrected bodies.

They (JWs) may ask you why God would create a new heaven and a new earth to be the home of the righteous (2 Peter 3:13), if He wanted all Christian believers to dwell with Him in heaven instead. To answer this objection, simply reply with something like this:

Where does Psalm 37:29 say that the righteous who will be dwelling upon the earth are resurrected dead people?

Why can’t these people be mortal humans who will be dwelling upon the land “forever” through their successive generations who will continue to populate the earth after their death?

Also, where in the Bible does it say that those who resurrect to heavenly life will not be able to travel back and forth between the new heaven and the new earth? Since Jesus was able to travel back and forth between heaven and earth in His resurrected body (Acts 1:11), why won’t all Christians be able to do the same when the new heaven and the new earth become a reality?

Why can’t these resurrected righteous people dwell in both places if they are able to travel back and forth between both heaven and earth?

Again, where does the Bible say that heaven is limited to ONLY 144,000 people?

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#33438 Jan 26, 2013
As you answer each of their objections (above) and continue to press them for a verse that supports this fundamental Watchtower teaching about the 144,000, Jehovah’s Witnesses will usually become agitated.

They may ask you to prove that there are more than 144,000 in heaven.

This next question will demonstrate how the 24 elders are an additional group of people who dwell in heaven next to the 144,000. After that, you can ask several more questions (below) that will prove that the “great crowd” of Revelation 7 and 19 are also in heaven. These questions will greatly challenge the Jehovah’s Witness viewpoint about the “great crowd” being a group of people who will resurrect only to early life.

At Revelation 14:3, we read that the 144,000 will sing a new song “before…the elders.” We also read about the 24 elders being in heaven at Revelation 4:4, 10-11; 5:8-10, 14; 11:16 and 19:4. Doesn’t the fact that the 144,000 sing a new song “before” the 24 elders prove that the 24 elders are a separate group of people who exist in heaven alongside the 144,000?

Again, can you show me a single verse in the Bible that says that ONLY 144,000 people are in heaven?

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