Should the US have universal healthcare?

[KenGuy]

The Chelmsford Flash wrote:

<quoted text>
O.K. one by one.
1. Most Americans that pay taxes (top 50%) are already paying MORE than 50% of their income to taxes; local,state,federal, UHC would render most them into the class of dependent poverty,(the Dems. want this) as it gives them a perpetual supply of new voters to buy with yet more silly social programs, the very costly programs that are exterminating the middle class , quite a connundrum. Yes?
2. "Stupid war mongering Americans" You should wake each morning and give solemn thanks to the greatest nation in the history of the world as we provide the very blanket of freedom, liberty and economic stability that you Canadians take for granted. A simple thank you would suffice!
3. "There would be no setting appointments or waiting for approval" The biggest problem WITH your Healthcare system (UHC) is the interminable wating for procedures, THEN, the rationing of services is the other DARK secret of UHC, finding out if you qualify for a costly procedure only to be put in yet another waiting pool while the ruling elites decide on your fate.
Yes, many Americans are very smart, unfortunately roughly 50-60% are not that smart and are willing to sacrifice freedom and liberty for the faux security of this bogus notion of "a free ride"
In short the true "greedy people" in America are the ones that want their neighbor to pay for them in lifes struggle to be a self sufficient adult.

Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?

Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.

You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.

So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!

With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.

Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.

The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.

Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

[daking]

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

[daking]

Oh and for the people saying the wealthy pay more taxes, they don't. They are supposed to, but they write most everything off, search for comments made by Warren Buffe. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busines...
I just wanted to throw that out there about the wealthy. So I think we can afford for them to pay a little more tax.

[No_oil_4_u]

daking wrote:

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

I have a better idea; cut off all welfare programs on the spot. 100% no ands ifs and buts. Welfare spending has become nothing more than a vote buying scheme dreamed up by the socialist politicians wanting to get elected or re-elected.

[No_oil_4_u]

daking wrote:

Oh and for the people saying the wealthy pay more taxes, they don't. They are supposed to, but they write most everything off, search for comments made by Warren Buffe. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busines...
I just wanted to throw that out there about the wealthy. So I think we can afford for them to pay a little more tax.

Why should the wealthy pay any moe than anyone else?

[Just for the Record]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.

Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.

First off he is right, most American's do pay half their income in taxes. This includes Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Federal Income Tax, State Tax, state fees, sales tax, phone tax, sales tax on electric and heat, additional tax to pay for electric and heat for those on welfare, federal gas tax, state gas tax etc. I could go one. Depending on income and the state they live in some pay more then half of their income in taxes.

What I find interesting is that you are pulling numbers out of your butt so to speak and appear to know nothing about America or it's people. Most American do not pay nearly $100,000 a year for health care. Plus in some states you can pay $4,000 a year and get great coverage. Each state has to be considered on it owns it. Average cost in WI for a family of five is $10,000 or less assuming the family has health issues and is paying all the cost.

And save the rant about insurance. I just had emergency surgery and was hospitalized for awhile, so I know what my insurance coverage. Plus I know that the American Health Care System and its Doctors, nurses, etc saved my life. Is it perfect no, but it's a lot better than what I have encountered in Canada.

[Just for the Record]

daking wrote:

Many of the people who need some type of coverage are the working poor. And yes they had the opportunity to get a better job and so forth, but who is going to make your burger at McDonalds if those type of jobs didn't exist. So back to my point. A universal health care system would better serve america. I mean look at the welfare system, we are paying for those individuals to have health care already, and to put food on the table. Take some funds from that and use that to help supplement the program. I'm not a financial analyst so I won't pretend to know that will fix it, but as a great entetainer once said, "we got money for wars but won't feed the poor." I konw he said can't, but I changed the word to reflect my views. How we gonna solve everyone elses problems we we haven't fixed our own.

Those types of jobs were never meant to support or raise a family on.

[No_oil_4_u]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?
Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.
You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.
So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!
With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.
Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.
Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

Your prior post was os much socialistic half truth misconstrued socialist hogwash I didn't even waste my time reading this one.

[KenGuy]

Just for the Record wrote:

First off he is right, most American's do pay half their income in taxes. This includes Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Federal Income Tax, State Tax, state fees, sales tax, phone tax, sales tax on electric and heat, additional tax to pay for electric and heat for those on welfare, federal gas tax, state gas tax etc. I could go one. Depending on income and the state they live in some pay more then half of their income in taxes.
What I find interesting is that you are pulling numbers out of your butt so to speak and appear to know nothing about America or it's people. Most American do not pay nearly $100,000 a year for health care. Plus in some states you can pay $4,000 a year and get great coverage. Each state has to be considered on it owns it. Average cost in WI for a family of five is $10,000 or less assuming the family has health issues and is paying all the cost.
And save the rant about insurance. I just had emergency surgery and was hospitalized for awhile, so I know what my insurance coverage. Plus I know that the American Health Care System and its Doctors, nurses, etc saved my life. Is it perfect no, but it's a lot better than what I have encountered in Canada.

So, if you look at your pay stub and it says total income =$2, 000

total taxes taken off =$1, 000+? off of each pay check? so if you're making 2k a month, only 1k is deposited into your bank account? Stop with the bullshitting.

I didn't say 100, 000 a year. Americans would rather save, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on there ownselves for medical procedures, then spend a small % of there income for the entire country.

$4,000 a year? How fucking rediculously expensive.

What if you can't afford health insurance, and the time comes you need to pay over $100, 000 in medical costs? What if your declinded because you're "too thin" or "too overweight"?

Luckily, you were insured, and you weren't declined. But, that's you. What about others who are declined every day, or need emergency services every day and are not insured? THEY DIE.

With UHC, if you're a citizen of the country you will not be declined a life-saving procedure.

With private health insurance money-grubbing cock suckers, you risk being declined. Then you will most probably lose your life, end of story. Go America, LAND OF THE FREE.

[KenGuy]

No_oil_4_u wrote:

<quoted text>Your prior post was os much socialistic half truth misconstrued socialist hogwash I didn't even waste my time reading this one.

The truth hurts.

Nice name, "No Oil 4 U" another greedy individual from the states that promotes ignorance.

[Raptor in Michigan]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
"If they can't afford hc, too f-ing bad, mind your own f-ing business". Typical American response.
America is only a head in technology for 1 reason: You people sat back in the world wars and watched everyone die, America got rich, then stepped in at the last second.
That's another sad thing, America only knows it's own history. You just prove one thing with your ignorant response about HC and helping others Cheech, you're just another typical American who cares about no one but yourself.
America, the only place you can be 400 lbs and still starve to death.
The Americans who did die for there country, and others, knowing they fought for ungrateful losers like yourself, would be ashamed to call themselves American.

We can't win no matter what we do. If we wait until the last second to get involved, we get criticized. If we go in too early we're accused of a "preemptive" strike or getting involved with something that's none of our business.

[Raptor in Michigan]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Most Americans that pay taxes are already paying 50% of there income to the government? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me if you're making $14/h in America you're only getting $7/h of it? Please, don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
I am grateful for what some few Americans did MANY years ago, but most of America has changed, and is no longer what it used to be. The people who died for America, died for an America that no longer exists. Am I grateful for what America does now (as far as war goes)?
Maybe a little bit, if you guys didn't start so much shit, rape and murder innocent foreigners for centuries, then we might be a target somewhere down the line. But thanks to America's crimes, it's why we, and other countires are safe for the most part. So, here is your Thank You.
You are DEAD WRONG. There is no waiting to see if you qualify for costly procedures. If it threatens your life, it is taken care of immediately. Doctors wanted to charge a man $60, 000 to re-attatch his index finger, and $16, 000 to re-attatch his wedding finger.
So, ofcourse the guy now lives to this day missing 1 finger because in America he couldn't afford to have his index finger put back together. LAND OF THE FREE!!!
With UHC, you can cut all 10 of your fingers off, and you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY. No wait time, watch the new kiddo.
Actually, it's the smart, rich ones who are the most greedy. You would rather pay $100, 000 in medical expenses on yourself, then pay 1-2% of your taxes to UHC. America is about profit, making it at any and all costs. Even if it kills your own countrymen. That is todays' America.
The true greedy people in America today is the government. Young Americans are born into a government that cares about nothing but making money at ANY cost. Which is why I really do not dislike most Americans, because it's not your fault, you're born into it, it's all you guys know.
Until the American government changes, the general population of America may never change(that's you).

You got that right! "Most of America has changed and is no longer what it used to be." That's why we are trying to get the libs out of power and return to a time our founding fathers intended when we lived by the constitution the way it was meant to be. That means very little govt and everyone had a right to work and prosper without gov't redistribution of wealth. People were more generous back then- the point I made in my previous post.

[KenGuy]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
We can't win no matter what we do. If we wait until the last second to get involved, we get criticized. If we go in too early we're accused of a "preemptive" strike or getting involved with something that's none of our business.

You're right Raptor but with half of Americans voting "No" for UHC, I don't believe the American government will ever change, or it will be decades down the road at the very least.

[daking]

The Chelmsford Flash wrote:

<quoted text>
Daking, research four things:
1. Income taxes paid by percentage.
2. Capital gains taxes paid by percentage.
3. Then explain the difference between the two and why?
4. Comment no further on this subject until you can do so.

Did you read the article wher Buffet talked about taxes. 17% compared to 30%.
I know what capital gains tax is.
I don't think I have to research further to comment and share my opinion. But thanks for the advice.

[daking]

And the fourth thing is not a reasearch item.

[Cheech the Conservative]

Why should I spend one F---ing cent on someone else?If they can't afford it,they should get a better job.If they are to goddam lazy,then if they croak,I do not give a shit.And it is none of your business.Just to be fair,a question.Why do you care?Appearently you like your Canadian system.Some do,some do not.What do you care what the USA does?

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
So, if you look at your pay stub and it says total income =$2, 000
total taxes taken off =$1, 000+? off of each pay check? so if you're making 2k a month, only 1k is deposited into your bank account? Stop with the bullshitting.
I didn't say 100, 000 a year. Americans would rather save, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on there ownselves for medical procedures, then spend a small % of there income for the entire country.
$4,000 a year? How fucking rediculously expensive.
What if you can't afford health insurance, and the time comes you need to pay over $100, 000 in medical costs? What if your declinded because you're "too thin" or "too overweight"?
Luckily, you were insured, and you weren't declined. But, that's you. What about others who are declined every day, or need emergency services every day and are not insured? THEY DIE.
With UHC, if you're a citizen of the country you will not be declined a life-saving procedure.
With private health insurance money-grubbing cock suckers, you risk being declined. Then you will most probably lose your life, end of story. Go America, LAND OF THE FREE.

[KenGuy]

Cheech the Conservative wrote:

Why should I spend one F---ing cent on someone else?If they can't afford it,they should get a better job.If they are to goddam lazy,then if they croak,I do not give a shit.And it is none of your business.Just to be fair,a question.Why do you care?Appearently you like your Canadian system.Some do,some do not.What do you care what the USA does?<quoted text>

I care because I believe in human rights, and those who can't afford health insurance do not deserve to die for it. I really hope you never get a government job, or someone whos lives rest in your hands. Honestly, YOU sound like an American Hitler.

[KenGuy]

The Chelmsford Flash wrote:

Swish... swish... swish...
GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAL!!!!!!
Like playing checkers with a ten year old!
How old are you Ken?
1. We are ahead in technology simply because:
WE ARE AHEAD!!!
Get it dipsh*t?
How come you folks from Cana-DUUUUUH are not ahead of the U.S.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL?
Your kuuuuntry is much older than ours, so much more time to advance well beyond our primitive existence!
ARE YOU REALLY THIS F**KIN' STUPID?
2.Yeah, and the Royal Canadian Army is such a global power.
ALL TOGETHER NOW, LMFAO!
3. You got it half right yet again, liberals care about, ONLY themselves as we the PRODUCTIVE pay for their pathetic lives in this country.
4. You backed into the truth YET again and have no clue, only in America could you die from being a:
FAT F**K...
and blame your neighbor for it!
What else you got hockeypuck?

"We are ahead in technology simply because we are ahead". You're the one who sounds like a child, if you knew ANYTHING about history, other then American history, you would know why America is ahead in technology.

Canadians in general are no where near as greedy as Americans. Your healthcare system, your government, and everyone in the USA has 1 goal: TO MAKE MONEY.

Where in Canada, making lots of money is nice, but our government knows 1 thing: we put our health before profit. Where as the majority of Americans will put profit before anything. America's middle name is greed.

"canaduhh" and "kuntryy"

Who is the 10 year old now?

I can tell you right now, most of America has your self-centred attitude towards other peoples well-being, and those who died in the war I can also tell you, did NOT die for ignorant little shits like you.

[Just for the Record]

KenGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
So, if you look at your pay stub and it says total income =$2, 000
total taxes taken off =$1, 000+? off of each pay check? so if you're making 2k a month, only 1k is deposited into your bank account? Stop with the bullshitting.
I didn't say 100, 000 a year. Americans would rather save, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on there ownselves for medical procedures, then spend a small % of there income for the entire country.
$4,000 a year? How fucking rediculously expensive.
What if you can't afford health insurance, and the time comes you need to pay over $100, 000 in medical costs? What if your declinded because you're "too thin" or "too overweight"?
Luckily, you were insured, and you weren't declined. But, that's you. What about others who are declined every day, or need emergency services every day and are not insured? THEY DIE.
With UHC, if you're a citizen of the country you will not be declined a life-saving procedure.
With private health insurance money-grubbing cock suckers, you risk being declined. Then you will most probably lose your life, end of story. Go America, LAND OF THE FREE.

Listen moron, as I mentioned there are other taxes besides income taxes we pay in America. I listed a majority of them. In addition, paystubs only show withholdings not actual tax liablities. So it could be more or less.

If I had the energy I would correct your misconceptions. Unfortunatly, I am not able to do so due to the surgery I had done.

I have added up many a person actual tax they pay and the result is depressing.

In addition, WI has a socailist health care program for the welfare and unskilled. One state and not all citizens of this state. The program ran $600 million dollars short in the first two months. This is after cigarette tax was increased 133%, yes a 133%, to help pay for this program. To cover the short fall they raised fees and raided the patient compensation fund. In addition, they want use who pay for our health care to pay a tax on the health care cost to cover this socalist program.

Now that said, we are already seeing a shortage of nurses, doctors, etc in the state due to this failing helath programs,as the state refuses to reimburse doctors, etc more than $0.20 of a $1.00 of cost.

It's not BS, I work with these numbers ever day. Day in and day out. Which you would know if you had gone back past the end of April postings.

So stop talking out of your a$$ about something you know nothing about.

And nobody but nobody is ever refused health care in WI. Do a little research next time, before talking out you A-hole.

[KenGuy]

Just for the Record wrote:

<quoted text>
Listen moron, as I mentioned there are other taxes besides income taxes we pay in America. I listed a majority of them. In addition, paystubs only show withholdings not actual tax liablities. So it could be more or less.
If I had the energy I would correct your misconceptions. Unfortunatly, I am not able to do so due to the surgery I had done.
I have added up many a person actual tax they pay and the result is depressing.
In addition, WI has a socailist health care program for the welfare and unskilled. One state and not all citizens of this state. The program ran $600 million dollars short in the first two months. This is after cigarette tax was increased 133%, yes a 133%, to help pay for this program. To cover the short fall they raised fees and raided the patient compensation fund. In addition, they want use who pay for our health care to pay a tax on the health care cost to cover this socalist program.
Now that said, we are already seeing a shortage of nurses, doctors, etc in the state due to this failing helath programs,as the state refuses to reimburse doctors, etc more than $0.20 of a $1.00 of cost.
It's not BS, I work with these numbers ever day. Day in and day out. Which you would know if you had gone back past the end of April postings.
So stop talking out of your a$$ about something you know nothing about.
And nobody but nobody is ever refused health care in WI. Do a little research next time, before talking out you A-hole.

WI shouldn't have to deal with this itself. The country America should deal with it, for ALL states, not just one. I'm talking UHC in ALL of America, not just WI.

What if you're not in WI, you don't have health insurance, and your medical costs are thousands of dollars more then you could ever afford?

How many people in America everyday are declined life-saving procedures because they can't afford it?

Call me an a-hole, that's fine. You're American.

Can't afford health insurance in America?$60, 000 to have a mans index finger surgically re-attached, you tell me which average person can afford that without health insurance. Guess what? THEY CAN'T.

So what happens? You live the rest of your life with no finger.

I can tell you right now, in my current standing I would not be able to afford living in America with your rediculous taxes, and your rediculous health care system. You guys are ranked like #60 in the entire world.

The most advanced country in the world is at the bottom of the list with healthcare. Call me every name in the book, my simple a very logical comeback is; You're American.