created by: Ajaxspank | Oct 5, 2007

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Should the US have universal healthcare?

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27,801 - 27,820 of 94,639 Comments Last updated Wednesday Jul 16

“FIGHT THE POWER!”

Since: Feb 08

LOUISVILLE

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#28620
Aug 9, 2008
 

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Cheech the Conservative wrote:
Good.Then please answer the one question I have been asking all along.Just because I am successful,why should I be taxed to pay for someone elses healthcare just because they NEED it?Sounds more like something everyone should handle on a personal level.<quoted text>
There is bargaining strength in numbers and with the cost of health care ever increasing, it is just a matter of time before the costs cripple the Govt, much like it has industry already.

The Govt is already the largest provider of health care now.

While your taxes may indeed increase with a single-payer plan, your health care costs overall will be less.
In all likelyhood your tax increase will be less than your current health care costs now.

“May the POWER RULE FOREVER!”

Since: Oct 07

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#28621
Aug 9, 2008
 

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I would rather my costs double than have my taxes increase one cent.It is a matter of principle.
takion1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is bargaining strength in numbers and with the cost of health care ever increasing, it is just a matter of time before the costs cripple the Govt, much like it has industry already.
The Govt is already the largest provider of health care now.
While your taxes may indeed increase with a single-payer plan, your health care costs overall will be less.
In all likelyhood your tax increase will be less than your current health care costs now.

“FIGHT THE POWER!”

Since: Feb 08

LOUISVILLE

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#28623
Aug 9, 2008
 
Observer- wrote:
<quoted text>......
I've responded to others on this thread who supported a "single-payer" system in the past. So, let me again make a few points on this idea.
First, please allow me to give you some historical information. Back in the 90's Mr. Clinton and the Rebuplican Congress disagreed on a federal budget. During the time discussion time, the federal government had a "shut down" to pressure eachother to give in. While the shut down was happening, no "unnecessary" government programs were funded, Medicare and Medicaid being just two of them. Thankfully, most physician offices including mine has a percentage of commercial insurance covered patients because we received no Medicare reimbursement during that time. However, some doctors were not so lucky.
Second, a single-payer system also has most physicians in fear despite these websites and small groups who say otherwise and here is why:
READ THIS CAREFULLY......ALL COMMERCIAL HEALTH INSURANCE CARRIERS AND ALL 50 STATE MEDICAID PROGRAMS ESTABLISH THEIR CPT CODE AND ICD-9 CODE REIMBURSEMENT AS A PERCENTAGE OF MEDICARE'S PHYSICIAN FEE SCHEDULE. In other words, if Medicare lowers their fees to physicians, we get lower reimbursement from commercial insurance and medicaid. Therefore, how Medicare sets their Physician Fee Schedule is critically important to all physicians and hospitals. You often hear that we can negotitate with commercial carriers.....hogwash......thei r idea of negotitation is take it or leave it losers.
Anyway, we, in the medical community, see the handwriting on the wall. Medicare is one skip and a hop from total melt down mainly because of 2 main issues, no accountability/fraud/illegals and the huge increase of Medicare recipients due to get Medicare in the next two decades. As a result, we know that reimbursement must go down in Medicare ridiculously. But, no matter how low it goes, we will have our commercial carriers. Yes, they will lower too as stated above but we will still have other income.
A one-payer system set up by the government gives them a complete monopoly on reimbursement and who can be a doctor and where you can practice as well as every other aspect of medicine and medical care. Medicare, thru the single-payer system can pay whatever they like to whomever they want and as a physician, you will have no choice. TAKE IT OR RETIRE. And would you like to guess who might attend medical school if your future includes being a defacto government employee making the same salary as say a mailman, an FBI agent, or a DMV employee........single-payer system will cause a mass retirement of experienced, gifted physicians......personally, when my ticker starts to flutter, I want my trusted cariologist at my side not some defacto government employee who might be upset that he didn't get his government raise that year!!
Observer, just a few quick questions for you.

As health care costs contine to increase, outpacing both wages and inflation, and here recently increasing by almost double digits each year, with more and more people not able to afford to maintain health care coverage, where will your customer base come from when more than 50% of the nation cannot afford to maintain health care coverage?

With less than 50% of the population able to afford your services, will you still be able to earn a living and afford to keep your office open too?
Can you see that you may make less money overall because of this?

With less than 50% of Americans able to afford health care, do you think that the brightest college students will continue to seek education to become doctors, knowing that they may not be able to maintain a health practice and earn a living?
What would be the use of training in a field where you will have less customers every year?

Can you see the day coming, that since the majority of people can no longer afford health care, that doctors will be forced to close offices and hospitals will close as well?

Since: Jul 08

woodbridge

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#28624
Aug 9, 2008
 
some insurance companies tell you which doctors you can see. if we had universal health care other programs would become obsolete, freeing up more money for the health care system, they should have it be a choice, after all this is a capitalism and we love choice, so on our w4 before we start a job, you can allocate how much you want to go to your heath, 10% and you get bottom fed docs and an "at your own risk" health system, if you want better pay 24% or pay nothing and go with private sector. make it a choice, if it dosent work it wont last, i believe the american worker should be taken care of and if you dont work you cant reap the benefits. we should be given the choice, you can have part of your check or hours worked to go to health/food/entertainment or you can just have your money and do it yourself.
Trisha

Mineral Wells, TX

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#28625
Aug 9, 2008
 

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What doctors get paid is not the problem. It is what they get paid for. Doctor get paid whether they do a good or bad job. Unlike any other profession I know, they can murder a patient while drunk or on drugs and it will take years before they are actually judged by a medical board (not the police), then they only lose their licence and/or paid a fine. Think about what happens when a teacher makes a racist remake or when a police office hits a person. They get immediately suppended from their jobs, while the doctor continues to treat patients and collect his fees.
Think about it!
Alex wrote:
Doctors in the U.S. get paid WAY too much money. Medication also costs too much. The government solves problems by throwing money at it. This of course drives up the cost and lowers the efficiency of anything that is government ran. At the state level a universal healthcare program might work, but at the federal level there is no way. You must realize the countries with universal healthcare in Europe are much smaller than the U.S. and such a program can be better organized.
BTW. Sweden is your correct location right? How much money goes towards your healthcare system? We pay about 1.45% of our income towards medicare.
jkl

Green Bay, WI

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#28626
Aug 9, 2008
 

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Observer- wrote:
<quoted text>........
Now here is an exact example of why there should be a law that you must take a mental competency test to use the Internet. It would weed out the stoners who have smoked off what little intelligence they once might have owned.
Because I disagree with "you", I call "you" unintelligent. So, do you disagree with universal single payer US-style health care?
Or that marijuana has uses and is less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.

I know,
that is not what I said about MJ.
Any time you inhale smoke,
be it from a cig, camp fire, over a stove,
or in a house fire, it is not harmless.
So technically what I typed is incorrect.

But there have been ZERO
marijuana related deaths in medical history.
ZERO.
That is a fact.

“May the POWER RULE FOREVER!”

Since: Oct 07

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#28627
Aug 9, 2008
 

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According to Hillarybitch,the number was 47 million.That is less than 20%.And THAT number has been debunked many times.12 million are illegal.20 million CAN afford and just choose NOT to buy.The rest DO qualify(unfortunately) for medicaid,but just haven't signed up.Now where in HELL does this 50% come from?And why would anybody in their right mind choose medicine if the goal was to become a friggin Gov't employee?You could make just as much working? at DMV.And you see how THEY bust their asses.Well,you are going to get your way.The libs are goin' to be runnin' things for the next 4 years.$8 a gallon,anyone?The bet is out there.After 4 Carter-like years,this generation will wise up.
takion1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Observer, just a few quick questions for you.
As health care costs contine to increase, outpacing both wages and inflation, and here recently increasing by almost double digits each year, with more and more people not able to afford to maintain health care coverage, where will your customer base come from when more than 50% of the nation cannot afford to maintain health care coverage?
With less than 50% of the population able to afford your services, will you still be able to earn a living and afford to keep your office open too?
Can you see that you may make less money overall because of this?
With less than 50% of Americans able to afford health care, do you think that the brightest college students will continue to seek education to become doctors, knowing that they may not be able to maintain a health practice and earn a living?
What would be the use of training in a field where you will have less customers every year?
Can you see the day coming, that since the majority of people can no longer afford health care, that doctors will be forced to close offices and hospitals will close as well?

“May the POWER RULE FOREVER!”

Since: Oct 07

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#28628
Aug 9, 2008
 

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Car accidents?But I'm not against it for chemo patients.It is the only medication that works.I am against Gov't unicare because they will F--- it up.Just like every other social program they have tried.
jkl wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I disagree with "you", I call "you" unintelligent. So, do you disagree with universal single payer US-style health care?
Or that marijuana has uses and is less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.
I know,
that is not what I said about MJ.
Any time you inhale smoke,
be it from a cig, camp fire, over a stove,
or in a house fire, it is not harmless.
So technically what I typed is incorrect.
But there have been ZERO
marijuana related deaths in medical history.
ZERO.
That is a fact.

“Honor All Vets”

Since: Oct 07

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#28629
Aug 9, 2008
 
For those of you who reside in Maryland, I have sent copies of our proposal out to the following people today.

Maryland Health Care Commission

Rex W. Cowdry, M.D., Executive Director
Stallings, Nicole - Government Relations & Special Projects

Executive Direction
Bridget Zombro, Deputy Director

Legal Services
Suellen Wideman, Assistant Attorney General,
Mel Franklin, Assistant Attorney General

Center for Health Care Financing and Policy
Center for Long-Term Care and Community Based Services
Bruce Kozlowski, Director,

Small Group Market
Janet Ennis, Chief,

Health Plan Quality & Performance
Joyce Burton, Chief

Health Care Disparities
Rod Taylor, Chief,

Long-Term Care Quality Initiative
Carol Christmyer,

Long-Term Care Policy & Planning
Linda Cole, Chief,

Center for Hospital Services
Pamela Barclay, Director

Hospital Quality Initiative
Theressa Lee, Chief

Specialized Services Policy & Planning
Dolores Sands, Chief,

Hospital Services Policy & Planning
Certificate of Need
Paul Parker , Chief,

Center for Information Services & Analysis
Ben Steffen, Director,

Cost & Quality Analysis
Linda Bartnyska, Chief,
goodguy

Philadelphia, PA

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#28630
Aug 9, 2008
 

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Alex wrote:
<quoted text>
Because nobody wants 50% of their income to go the government. Thats why.
Well true if we spent money on healthcare where would the money come from to go to war...you know Americans love war...it's romantic and makes for great tv. Americans don't care about healthcare, the truth is they care about money in their pockects and making the rest of the world kneel and respect us...now that's is America.

Since: Apr 07

Canada

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#28631
Aug 9, 2008
 

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I watched a story on PBS Bill Moyers Journal last night.

It was about a mother and daughter in who are trying to pay off their hospital debt. The husband had died 2 yrs ago, so both were left with no health insurance. The daughter has diabetes and both have low paying jobs, trying to make ends meet.

They have been hard working and honest. They are slowly paying off the hospital bill but it's a major struggle.

Big surprise for them...the hospital "outsourced" their financial debt department. Mother and daughter now answered to a new finacial consulting firm who has a much higher interest rate etc...and there's nothing that the mother/daughter can do etc..

My country has universal public healthcare and there is a FEW probs with the system in the last little while. No matter how many or how bad those few probs are, I am VERY happy that I don't have to worry about such things.

Since: Apr 07

Canada

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#28632
Aug 9, 2008
 
By the way, I've asked on this thread long ago and no one answered....

How much is health insurance monthly in the US?

I know it depends on how much coverage you want/type of coverage or the amount of people(family dependents) etc....but can anyone give me an average cost?

“Honor All Vets”

Since: Oct 07

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#28633
Aug 9, 2008
 
Nightflyer wrote:
By the way, I've asked on this thread long ago and no one answered....
How much is health insurance monthly in the US?
I know it depends on how much coverage you want/type of coverage or the amount of people(family dependents) etc....but can anyone give me an average cost?
here is the best answer however this is tained because the stats include care paidfor by hte taxpayer for the illegals within this country when it comes to the average annual cost per capita in the U.S. So you would be better finding computation of the average by state in which you reside

“Honor All Vets”

Since: Oct 07

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#28634
Aug 9, 2008
 

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If you averaged the 4400 per year it would equate to a little over 366 dollars per month.

Since: Nov 07

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#28635
Aug 9, 2008
 

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takion1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Observer, just a few quick questions for you.
As health care costs contine to increase, outpacing both wages and inflation, and here recently increasing by almost double digits each year, with more and more people not able to afford to maintain health care coverage, where will your customer base come from when more than 50% of the nation cannot afford to maintain health care coverage?
With less than 50% of the population able to afford your services, will you still be able to earn a living and afford to keep your office open too?
Can you see that you may make less money overall because of this?
With less than 50% of Americans able to afford health care, do you think that the brightest college students will continue to seek education to become doctors, knowing that they may not be able to maintain a health practice and earn a living?
What would be the use of training in a field where you will have less customers every year?
Can you see the day coming, that since the majority of people can no longer afford health care, that doctors will be forced to close offices and hospitals will close as well?
...

I've answered this question previously many times. The short answer is yes, you will see doctors and hospitals closing. In fact, I personally know of physicians who have left medicine for early retirement, teaching positions in high schools and colleges, and believe it or not, I know of several physicians who quit medicine to go back to law school. And that leads me to a few suggestions to control healthcare costs.

First, limit malpractice awards so that lawyers cannot try for the "lottery" with frivilous suits. Those limitations will result in a significant reduction is "defensive" medicine of tests, drugs, and procedures to cover our asses.

Second, get the federal government out of healthcare completely including ending the charade known as Medicare. I agree we will need some oversight on commercial insurance CEO salaries perhaps but get the feds out of the business of making non-sensical rules and laws that simply submerge us in unnecessary rules and regulations that do nothing but increase our costs which are passed to the consumer.

Third, return America to a place where insurance covered catastrtophic illness or injury and EXPECT people to actually pay for normal routine care. To do so would reduce overuse and fraud resulting in a more reasonable health system. Medicaid is the largest and most prolific at abusing healthcare in one respect. Medicaid recipients overuse and abuse their healthcare benefits simply because they can. No limits. No cost to them. No supervision whatsoever.

Fourth, allow and support Emergency Rooms to refuse treatment to non-emergencies without fear of lawyers and malpractice suits. This idea alone will save hundreds of millions a year at least.

Finally, these are suggestions to reduce healthcare costs in America instantly. I admit my points are superficial at best on this post but they show how simple it would be to make healthcare affodable and available. But remember just one sad truth......most state and federal elected officials are lawyers so don't even think you'll see an end to the money bonanza we call SUE THE DOCTOR AND THE HOSPITAL.

Since: Nov 07

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#28636
Aug 9, 2008
 

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jkl wrote:
<quoted text>
Because I disagree with "you", I call "you" unintelligent. So, do you disagree with universal single payer US-style health care?
Or that marijuana has uses and is less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.
I know,
that is not what I said about MJ.
Any time you inhale smoke,
be it from a cig, camp fire, over a stove,
or in a house fire, it is not harmless.
So technically what I typed is incorrect.
But there have been ZERO
marijuana related deaths in medical history.
ZERO.
That is a fact.
..........

I dislike and avoid discussions about non-issues like using marijuana in medicine but for you, I will make an exception. Sir.......only a fool would state without qualification that there are no marijuana related deaths in medical history. Growers have been murdered for their yields. Dealers have been murdered for their profits. Users have been murdered for their purchases. Users have been killed in car accidents. And users have killed innocent people while under the influence. So, get a life and just say no to drugs. You'll perhaps become a productive member of American society and not a stoner wasting our collective time discussing a serious issue like healthcare with someone so obviously lost in space.

Since: Nov 07

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#28637
Aug 9, 2008
 

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takion1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Observer, just a few quick questions for you.
As health care costs contine to increase, outpacing both wages and inflation, and here recently increasing by almost double digits each year, with more and more people not able to afford to maintain health care coverage, where will your customer base come from when more than 50% of the nation cannot afford to maintain health care coverage?
With less than 50% of the population able to afford your services, will you still be able to earn a living and afford to keep your office open too?
Can you see that you may make less money overall because of this?
With less than 50% of Americans able to afford health care, do you think that the brightest college students will continue to seek education to become doctors, knowing that they may not be able to maintain a health practice and earn a living?
What would be the use of training in a field where you will have less customers every year?
Can you see the day coming, that since the majority of people can no longer afford health care, that doctors will be forced to close offices and hospitals will close as well?
........

And finally Tak......do I think or wonder if the best and brightest college undergrads will avoid medicine if healthcare continues on its current path?

Tak.......I can guarantee that this situation is happening right now in America. Let me again at the risk of angering my friends on this post repeat an example for you. I have a physician working in my office who is what I would call a "super specialist" in that her training was so extensive in what she does virtually no one has this specialty. Currently, I believe that there are less than 2000 of these specialists nationally.

She graduated #1 in her high school class. She graduated #1 in her OSU undergrad degree. She entered medical school at OSU and graduated in 4 years. She did here Residency and Internship with honors becoming the Head Resident in her program. She then entered a 3 year specialty fellowship for her super specialty. Now, let's count. 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 1 year Intern, 3 years Resident, and 3 years fellowship. Total: 15 years.

She finished in 1984 and went to work immediately and has worked ever since. Jump ahead to 2008. I read an advertisement in one of our journals that was advertising for a same trained super specialist with a starting salary of $85,000. Would you take that job for just $85,000? Hmmmmm???

Now, compare that physician's salary with my neighbor whose son graduated from Georgia Tech in May with a 4 year degree in electrical engineering. He was hired by a firm in June. His starting salary was $106,000. So, let's try to figure out whether he deserves 106 thousand with a four year degree and a doctor with all the mentioned training deserves 85??????? To me, it is simply a matter of common sense.

Since: Nov 07

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#28638
Aug 9, 2008
 

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goodguy wrote:
<quoted text>Well true if we spent money on healthcare where would the money come from to go to war...you know Americans love war...it's romantic and makes for great tv. Americans don't care about healthcare, the truth is they care about money in their pockects and making the rest of the world kneel and respect us...now that's is America.
........

I believe you can find several "Hate America First" threads on TOPIX to spew your nonsense and anti-American drivil. Please move on. Thank you.

Since: Nov 07

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#28639
Aug 9, 2008
 
Nightflyer wrote:
By the way, I've asked on this thread long ago and no one answered....
How much is health insurance monthly in the US?
I know it depends on how much coverage you want/type of coverage or the amount of people(family dependents) etc....but can anyone give me an average cost?
..........

Family of four, Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO, Open Access with a $2000 deductible and $40.00 co-pay........$554.00 a month.

Since: Nov 07

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#28640
Aug 9, 2008
 
Trisha wrote:
What doctors get paid is not the problem. It is what they get paid for. Doctor get paid whether they do a good or bad job. Unlike any other profession I know, they can murder a patient while drunk or on drugs and it will take years before they are actually judged by a medical board (not the police), then they only lose their licence and/or paid a fine. Think about what happens when a teacher makes a racist remake or when a police office hits a person. They get immediately suppended from their jobs, while the doctor continues to treat patients and collect his fees.
Think about it!
<quoted text>
..........

Again, nonsense, half truths, and outright false information but entertaining nonetheless.

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