Is homosexuality a sin?

Is homosexuality a sin?

Created by Travis Morgan on Oct 27, 2007

59,181 votes

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Yes

No

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104616 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
Atheist TV Show Cuts Off ‘Christian’ Caller Who Suggested Child Rape Victims Are Evil http://www.mediaite.com/tv/you-piece-of-sht-a...
Since you love to generalize, why are you Atheist into child rape and so angry?
First of all, it's not really possible to generalize in a QUESTION. Generalizations are STATEMENTS. I have not made ANY statements which say "ALL Christians are like this...." or "ALL Christians do that..."

Why are YOU PERSONALLY so into deflecting other people's questions, by ignoring them, leaving them unanswered, and then posing your own unrelated questions? Why don't you answer what I've asked about identifying Christians like WBC and LDS? I'm happy to answer any question you ask me, but you should show some reciprocation.

No one has to be "into" child rape to use it as a hypothetical. It makes a good case example, because most people recognize it as deplorable. Do you think the hosts of this show did something specifically wrong here? Is there a point you're trying to make? They're angry because they have to speak to people on a weekly basis who want to defend God for doing nothing while child rape occurs, and people who say that the child being raped was not innocent, and therefore might deserve the rape. Did you even WATCH the video you posted?

Atheists are not angry all the time. You are talking to them here, where the subject matters are controversial and heated, so you are going to get the "angry side" most of the time. We do get angry when so many people are trying to write legislation to enforce their religious beliefs onto others, which happens constantly. We get angry that science education suffers in this country, because superstitious people want to "teach the controversy" of their myths. We're angry because we see so many injustices in the world which are motivated by magical thinking. These things are WORTH getting angry over, and if you hang out on a website where these type of things dominate the conversation, then anger is what you'll mostly see. If you spoke to us at different times, about different subjects, then you would see different emotions from us, just like anyone else.

It would be so nice if you were to give an answer to my questions, with as much thought and description in it as I've tried to give here. Instead, I'm bracing myself for your next round of answer-free insults.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104617 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.....http://www.usccb.org /issues-and-action/child-and-y outh-protection/upload/What-ha s-the-Catholic-Church-done-to- effectively-respond-to-sexual- abuse-by-church-personnel.pdf
They commissioned an exhaustive study and have taken many measures to resolve the underlying problems. Many priests have been defrocked as well.

Since: Nov 12

Sacramento, CA

#104618 Sep 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>

You mean, would we undertake some unpleasant task in order to save all human life? I sure HOPE we're all like that. I hope YOU'RE like that, too.
Dan Barker was asked a hypothetical question: "If a bunch of aliens came down and said we’re going to destroy all humanity if you don’t rape a girl, would you do it?"
Here is Dan Barker's answer in full, just so he can't be mischaracterized:
"It would be horrible, it would be regrettable, I would hate myself, I would probably kill myself after doing it, but I would have the courage… if that was the only option, if that were the only option, then I would go through with it. I would pity that woman, I would pity myself, but morality would require me to take the course of action that results in the least amount of harm. And those of you whose lives that I saved by doing that, you might be disgusted at what I did, but you would be alive rather than dead. So in that weird situation, which is hypothetical, in extreme, it would never happen, there are cases where, what we think are right and wrong, could be flipped around."
I don't see that he's said anything wrong here. Wouldn't you do the same thing? Wouldn't you accept the smaller sacrifice, in order to avoid the larger one? Or would you simply let all humans die?
No I would not rape anyone to save humanity. The question is if it would be moral. Listen again. It would not be moral. That was the question if it would be moral. It's the same thoughts the Nazi's had to justify killing people. The Nazi's did it to "save humanity". In my opinion we are all equal, no matter the numbers, it is ethically wrong to sacrifice someone against their will for the sake of others (even the world).

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104619 Sep 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>We do get angry when so many people are trying to write legislation to enforce their religious beliefs onto others, which happens constantly. We get angry that science education suffers in this country, because superstitious people want to "teach the controversy" of their myths. We're angry because we see so many injustices in the world which are motivated by magical thinking.
Exactly.

It really is the science education that's the biggie. Even if I and society were willing to pretend that the mountain of atrocities committed in the name of some myth can be excused as "human nature" and would have been committed anyway, that one would still be pervasive and damaging to the world in ways that are truly immeasurable.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104620 Sep 4, 2014
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
They commissioned an exhaustive study and have taken many measures to resolve the underlying problems. Many priests have been defrocked as well.
Defrocked? How is that justice to the family of a child rape victim? Why would religious people get a get-out-of-jail-free-for-child -rape-card? Where are these separate laws written that priests get to live by? Is child rape the only crime they're allowed to commit without criminal prosecution, or are there others?

This is a truly disgusting paradigm you're apparently supporting. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS HARBORING THOUSANDS OF CHILD SEX PREDATORS. They must be prosecuted. End of story.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104621 Sep 4, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Defrocked? How is that justice to the family of a child rape victim? Why would religious people get a get-out-of-jail-free-for-child -rape-card? Where are these separate laws written that priests get to live by? Is child rape the only crime they're allowed to commit without criminal prosecution, or are there others?
This is a truly disgusting paradigm you're apparently supporting. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS HARBORING THOUSANDS OF CHILD SEX PREDATORS. They must be prosecuted. End of story.
1. People are innocent until proven guilty.

2. Priests have been brought to justice and huge settlements have been made.

3. The fact is, the Catholic Church has no more sexual predators than public schools or any other part of our population. Your allegation is false.

Notwithstanding the media hysteria over sex abuse in the Catholic Church, priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males. While even one case of abuse is too many, approximately only 4% of all active priests between 1950 and 2002 were even accused of abuse – a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104622 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
It's a fair question since you and other Atheist here generalize about religion.
It's not a fair question, it's an attempt to avoid answering my specific questions. If someone is generalizing in a way that you think is unfair or inaccurate, then call them out on it. THEM. I can't explain anyone else's motivations or concerns except my own.
RiccardoFire wrote:
My whole point is that human beings can be evil, nothing to do with religion except some use it.
But that doesn't mean that someone who CALLS themselves "Christian" isn't actually Christian.

Yes, some human beings can be evil. But some people consider different things to be "evil". If someone opposes marriage equality, I would call that "evil", while you might call it "good" or even "Christlike". In such cases, it is the presence of religion which motivates someone to their actions.

In the case of the WBC,(I'm sure) they believe their actions are "Christlike", and called for by God. Why are they wrong, in your opinion?
RiccardoFire wrote:
If it's so perfect to talk about little boys penises here on this topic of questioning if being gay is a sin, then I guess we can talk about anything here.
Sure. But it would be nice if you would keep specific conversations limited to the appropriate people. I have no interest in discussion circumcision or penises. You should focus your questions on the people who do.
RiccardoFire wrote:
Or was it "perfect" because it was someone on your side? Don't lie this time.
I have no opinion of whether it was "perfect" or not. I didn't bring it up, and I have no interest in the subject.

I'm asking about the label of "Christian", and how non-Christians can tell if someone is mis-applying it to themselves. I'm wondering whether you consider Mormons to be Christians.
RiccardoFire wrote:
Cutting off extra skin is a medical issue not Christianity.
I'm sorry, but this is simply naive. This practice is explicitly described in the Bible as being commanded by God. Most medical professionals will agree that this is not a medical necessity, as long as good hygiene is observed.
RiccardoFire wrote:
I know some religions it's very cruel and has been in the past but as long as I have been in Church I have never heard the topic come up, it's no concern for Christians, it's a medical issue.
That's nice. You don't need to defend this topic to me, I couldn't care less. Save your arguments for the people who are asking you about this. If it's no concern for YOU, and it's no concern for ME, then we are in agreement and there's no need to discuss it.

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians?

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104623 Sep 4, 2014
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
1. People are innocent until proven guilty.
2. Priests have been brought to justice and huge settlements have been made.
3. The fact is, the Catholic Church has no more sexual predators than public schools or any other part of our population. Your allegation is false.
Notwithstanding the media hysteria over sex abuse in the Catholic Church, priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males. While even one case of abuse is too many, approximately only 4% of all active priests between 1950 and 2002 were even accused of abuse – a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.
http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/
1. Correct, but the accused must stand trial. Why not priests?

2. A meaningless statement, and a complete lie. How many priests have been brought to "justice?" The money is not a "settlement." They ALL require the family to never speak of the evils in order to receive it. It's hush money.

3. I don't care what their rate of child rape is. They are harboring sex predators and preventing their prosecution.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104624 Sep 4, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Correct, but the accused must stand trial. Why not priests?
2. A meaningless statement, and a complete lie. How many priests have been brought to "justice?" The money is not a "settlement." They ALL require the family to never speak of the evils in order to receive it. It's hush money.
3. I don't care what their rate of child rape is. They are harboring sex predators and preventing their prosecution.
1. The priests were brought to justice. It is up to you to prove otherwise.

2. You are misinformed. Restitution is part of a legal settlement.

3. Your worthless opinion is irrelevant. Prove the Catholic Church is harboring sex predators using readily verifiable facts.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104625 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
No I would not rape anyone to save humanity.
You would rather see EVERYONE DIE?

RiccardoFire wrote:
The question is if it would be moral. Listen again. It would not be moral. That was the question if it would be moral.
And YES, it WOULD be moral. It would not make RAPE moral, but the action of saving humanity would be the moral action.
RiccardoFire wrote:
It's the same thoughts the Nazi's had to justify killing people. The Nazi's did it to "save humanity".
And if we could confirm that they REALLY WERE saving humanity, then killing some to save all might be justified. But there's no evidence that they were saving anyone. They were only slaughtering one race to empower another.

That's why this hypothetical is more direct and concise. If we KNEW that aliens REALLY WERE going to destroy all humanity, unless someone committed a vile act, we can see the direct consequences much more clearly.

Dan Barker was not seeking to find some way to moralize rape. He was asked a specific hypothetical cooked up by someone else, and he did his best to answer. You can stop pretending that this means that all atheists are in love with rape.
RiccardoFire wrote:
In my opinion we are all equal, no matter the numbers, it is ethically wrong to sacrifice someone against their will for the sake of others (even the world).
I can see where a theist might think that, because you don't view death as an ending. If the whole world is destroyed, you would simply view all humans as moving on to the next life. But try to see it from an atheist's point of view. If Barker did not comply with these aliens, then that would be IT for humanity. No next life, no continuation. Surely you can see why someone would see a smaller sacrifice as "more acceptable" than a larger sacrifice, with so much at stake? If death is truly the end, then why put one child's well-being ahead of ALL children's existence (including that child)?

In your personal opinion, are Mormons Christians?

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104626 Sep 4, 2014
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
1. The priests were brought to justice. It is up to you to prove otherwise.
2. You are misinformed. Restitution is part of a legal settlement.
3. Your worthless opinion is irrelevant. Prove the Catholic Church is harboring sex predators using readily verifiable facts.
Now you've moved straight into outright denial.

Wow. Just wow.

Since: Nov 12

Sacramento, CA

#104627 Sep 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a fair question, it's an attempt to avoid answering my specific questions. If someone is generalizing in a way that you think is unfair or inaccurate, then call them out on it. THEM. I can't explain anyone else's motivations or concerns except my own.
<quoted text>
But that doesn't mean that someone who CALLS themselves "Christian" isn't actually Christian.
Yes, some human beings can be evil. But some people consider different things to be "evil". If someone opposes marriage equality, I would call that "evil", while you might call it "good" or even "Christlike". In such cases, it is the presence of religion which motivates someone to their actions.
In the case of the WBC,(I'm sure) they believe their actions are "Christlike", and called for by God. Why are they wrong, in your opinion?
<quoted text>
Sure. But it would be nice if you would keep specific conversations limited to the appropriate people. I have no interest in discussion circumcision or penises. You should focus your questions on the people who do.
<quoted text>
I have no opinion of whether it was "perfect" or not. I didn't bring it up, and I have no interest in the subject.
I'm asking about the label of "Christian", and how non-Christians can tell if someone is mis-applying it to themselves. I'm wondering whether you consider Mormons to be Christians.
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, but this is simply naive. This practice is explicitly described in the Bible as being commanded by God. Most medical professionals will agree that this is not a medical necessity, as long as good hygiene is observed.
<quoted text>
That's nice. You don't need to defend this topic to me, I couldn't care less. Save your arguments for the people who are asking you about this. If it's no concern for YOU, and it's no concern for ME, then we are in agreement and there's no need to discuss it.
Do you consider Mormons to be Christians?
Liar.....you said it was perfect to bring up the topic of penises, read what you write. I am not going to decide who is Christian or not. Why don't you decide who is atheist or not?

Since: Nov 12

Sacramento, CA

#104628 Sep 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>

I have no opinion of whether it was "perfect" or not. I didn't bring it up, and I have no interest in the subject.

I'm sorry, but this is simply naive. This practice is explicitly described in the Bible as being commanded by God. Most medical professionals will agree that this is not a medical necessity, as long as good hygiene is observed.
?
are you on drugs? read what you write. First you have no opinion on the subject, then your next book you make a claim it's described in the Bible. Just as I told your buddy the hater, why don't you ask Hospitals why they are doing it? Most Hospitals are not under God's commands. What type of penis do you prefer?

Since: Nov 12

Sacramento, CA

#104629 Sep 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
You would rather see EVERYONE DIE?
?
Yes I'm not like you and Barker, I would rather die with high morals then sink that low.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104630 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
Liar.....you said it was perfect to bring up the topic of penises, read what you write.
HERE is what I wrote:

"It's perfectly valid for people to have questions and concerns about circumcision."

That is very different from the prurient, sexual way you are trying to paint this. Why do you have to twist it around, just to avoid answering my questions?
RiccardoFire wrote:
I am not going to decide who is Christian or not.
You’ve already done that, when you said “People like Westboro and the army of God are not Christians” and “A follower of Christ would not protest God's creation at a funeral”. Don’t say you’re not going to do things which you’ve already done.

I am not asking you to condemn or pass judgment on anyone. I am merely curious whether you consider the Mormon faith to be a Christian faith.
RiccardoFire wrote:
Why don't you decide who is atheist or not?
Sure, I’m always happy to answer your questions. I would say that anyone who does not have an active belief in any specific god is an atheist. Are there any atheists you had in mind? Is there anyone specific that you are curious about who is claiming to be an atheist, while not behaving that way?

Or are you just flinging copy-cat questions back at people, to avoid answering the original question?

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104631 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
are you on drugs? read what you write. First you have no opinion on the subject, then your next book you make a claim it's described in the Bible. Just as I told your buddy the hater, why don't you ask Hospitals why they are doing it? Most Hospitals are not under God's commands.
If I asked hospitals why they are doing it, they would tell me that they do it under the instruction of the parents. Most parents would probably cite tradition.

Please don't suggest that this tradition does NOT come from the Bible.
RiccardoFire wrote:
What type of penis do you prefer?
Adult. Why would you POSSIBLY want to know that?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104632 Sep 4, 2014
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you've moved straight into outright denial.
Wow. Just wow.
Another worthless opinion. Prove your allegation or STFU.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#104633 Sep 4, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
Yes I'm not like you and Barker, I would rather die with high morals then sink that low.
If you would rather let ALL of humanity die, simply because you're unwilling to violate your own comfort zone, then that's immoral. The higher morals come from putting one's own interests and feelings aside, and doing what it takes, no matter how unpleasant, to reduce the most suffering for the most people.

Barker explained very well that he wouldn’t WANT to do this, that it would make him feel terrible, but that he recognized (in this bizarre and unlikely hypothetical) that the lesser suffering is preferable to the greater suffering. If these nuances escape you, then I hope our fate is never in your hands.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104634 Sep 4, 2014
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Another worthless opinion. Prove your allegation or STFU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abu...

Is this a page of lies?

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#104635 Sep 4, 2014
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-05/un-p...

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/Pri...

I guess these are all lies as well. Quite a list.

Religion is evil. But the crimes that Catholics have committed against humanity are second to none. And what's worse is that Catholics in the US still give money to this criminal organization.

Evil.

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