Is homosexuality a sin?

Is homosexuality a sin?

Created by Travis Morgan on Oct 27, 2007

59,181 votes

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Yes

No

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#95980 Jan 24, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find [findings snipped]
.
At it's most basic essence, marriage is none of your business KiMare!

1 Peter 4:15 KJV, "But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters."

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95981 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Progressive Revelation.
http://www.bsmi.org/download/kimble/Biblical_...
You can wrap it up in whatever terminology you like, but it's still God following contemporary human custom. Or more accurately, the society that projects God into being changes what God's moral values and characteristics are.

It's funny to me that slavery can magically expire, shellfish becomes OK, and women can be church leaders (despite what Paul clearly said about that), and yet homosexuality is supposed to be perennially immoral for some reason. It's a puzzlement!

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95982 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>You are in denial. I don't see you accusing Osiris of rape. You desire to throw all these accusations out against God straight out of Dawkins. Your logic about God is akin to blaming a judge for sentencing a murderer to life imprisonment. A long time ago i asked you some basic questions about the Bible and you could not answer them.
King Saul was merciful to the merciless and subsequently merciless to the merciful. Explain?
Give me two examples of slave revolt in the Old Testament? Now i even printed the answer to that one on Topix.
Any first year Theology student could answer both of those questions.
We aren't talking about Osiris, are we? Did you want to? Frankly, I don't know enough about ancient Egyptian polytheism to know whether any of their various gods condoned or ordered rape or not.

Anyway, all this talk about rape and slavery in the Bible just goes back to my main point about the Bible being a work of it's time, which as time goes on becomes progressively farther and farther apart from modern society. The Old Testament is the product of ancient Hebrews (and is mainly Jewish revenge-porn), and the New Testament is a product of later Greek-influenced writers, but both are products of pre-Enlightenment ideas about rule via despots where one should never question the absolute ruler. It's a valuable look into ancient cultures and what their values were, to be sure, and of course there are historical references that are mostly true (except for the Exodus) but that's about it.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95983 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text> And you are the purveyor of truth? Over Jesus? You know more than the ancients?
Why yes, we (and I include both of us an society in general) do know quite a bit more than the ancients. And that is because of science.

And no one will never find truth through faith, because faith is not a valid epistemology. Simple as that.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95984 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Agree. Let me add atheism explains nothing.
Atheism is skepticism; it does not propose any information on it's own.

You are an atheist too BTW, unless you accept every claim by every religion. You just refuse to apply your atheism universally.

Religion doesn't explain anything either. It just makes unproved claims. That's true of your religion and every other, BTW.

If you want knowledge and explanations that are founded in reality, then you need science. You benefit from it every day, after all.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95985 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Since atheism assumes there is no God then there is no accountability to God.
Just like your atheism of Hinduism assumes there is no accountability to Lord Krishna.
If man escapes human justice he is home free. That means there is no real justice for victims. Justice is arbitrary. Its counter intuitive to human sense of justice.
That's evidently not true, as you and I live in a secular nation of secular laws, which are not arbitrary. I'm an atheist, and yet I have a very established set of morals which I seek to follow every day.

Look at it another way, would you be a baby-raping genocidal maniac if it were not for the Bible? Probably not, right? Well, there ya go.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95986 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
You are enslaved to your homosexuality and by extension Satan. It is the cruel form of slavery somewhat depicted in the slavery in ancient Egypt. You are, according to Scripture dead in a spiritual sense. The spiritual death brings about physical death. It is the spiritual death which is the real killer. The spiritual death caused Adam and Eve to hide. Physical death was inevitable. Like cancer eventually brings about physical death. It is the cancer that kills.
Frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am no more enslaved to my sexuality than you are. Neither have you managed to rationalize why homosexuality should be sinful. Neither do you have any idea what you are talking about with "spiritual death".

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95987 Jan 24, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>And yet the Christian church wonders why enrollment is dropping.
The future should prove interesting for religion. As the world becomes more tightly knit together and communication and ideas are traded more freely, religious ideologies are being increasingly compared to each other. And few things breed atheism like a course in comparative religious studies. People quickly see that faith alone is no way to gauge which ideas and claims are valid, and yet when you look for objective evidence it becomes quickly apparently that the emperor has no clothes.

On the other hand, religions have adapted and evolved continuously as the societies which create them do, and it's entirely possible that religions will survive right along side society, but they will be increasingly different. That's why the clash between homosexuality and the Abrahamic religions is so interesting. Those who insist on clinging to the past and call homosexuality a sin because of what some Bronze Age book says are clearly being marginalized. Which is just as well for the religions, because those people are hoisting their religion on it's own petard. Already many Christian sects are backing away from this and accepting gay people and their families. Even the Catholic church has begun giving lip service to this. In time, most sects will accept gay people and their families, and those that don't will become increasingly marginalized until they make themselves too insignificant to care about. Just as with slavery, racism, womens' suffrage, and interracial marriage, they will have to adapt to gay people or die. And they probably will adapt.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#95990 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
The future should prove interesting for religion. As the world becomes more tightly knit together and communication and ideas are traded more freely, religious ideologies are being increasingly compared to each other. And few things breed atheism like a course in comparative religious studies. People quickly see that faith alone is no way to gauge which ideas and claims are valid, and yet when you look for objective evidence it becomes quickly apparently that the emperor has no clothes.
On the other hand, religions have adapted and evolved continuously as the societies which create them do, and it's entirely possible that religions will survive right along side society, but they will be increasingly different. That's why the clash between homosexuality and the Abrahamic religions is so interesting. Those who insist on clinging to the past and call homosexuality a sin because of what some Bronze Age book says are clearly being marginalized. Which is just as well for the religions, because those people are hoisting their religion on it's own petard. Already many Christian sects are backing away from this and accepting gay people and their families. Even the Catholic church has begun giving lip service to this. In time, most sects will accept gay people and their families, and those that don't will become increasingly marginalized until they make themselves too insignificant to care about. Just as with slavery, racism, womens' suffrage, and interracial marriage, they will have to adapt to gay people or die. And they probably will adapt.
I know a lot of Christian churches that are reaching out to the gay community and accepting them as they are. We are to love others. Period.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#95991 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
You can wrap it up in whatever terminology you like, but it's still God following contemporary human custom. Or more accurately, the society that projects God into being changes what God's moral values and characteristics are.
It's funny to me that slavery can magically expire, shellfish becomes OK, and women can be church leaders (despite what Paul clearly said about that), and yet homosexuality is supposed to be perennially immoral for some reason. It's a puzzlement!
Wanted to mention we disagree on a lot of things but i do appreciate your civility. Speaks well of you.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95992 Jan 24, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Wanted to mention we disagree on a lot of things but i do appreciate your civility. Speaks well of you.
Thanks. I really only come on to Topix looking to have a civilized conversation and debate. Most people seem to get on here wanting to win an argument or just insult people, and I don't see the point of that. People don't need to agree to learn new things from each other. In fact, people who do agree rarely learn new things from each other!:)

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#95993 Jan 24, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Ignorance meets denial.
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're talking to your inner lesbian again?
Do you know which is worse?

Ignorance can be educated.

Denial knows the truth and pretends it isn't important. Chosen ignorance.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#95994 Jan 24, 2014
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text> The ones that make it that far. PS, you don't have to be heterosexual to make our potential little futures and humans figured out how to conceive without either biological parent in the same room ages ago. Your heterosexuality, not as necessary to the survival of the species as it used to be. Sorry, but that's reality.
Nothing he said is incorrect. You simply don't like what it exposes.

If you cared about children, and society, you would support traditional marriage as the best setting for future members of society. Children with the only true mother and father they will ever have.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#95995 Jan 24, 2014
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Verses 23-24, the act is one that she had no right to consent to, her virginity was already spoken for under the law, even if she doesn't tell him. It's a form of adultery that is essentially a statutory rape.
In ancient cultures and many still today, virginity is critical for marriage. The law protected those women who lost their virginity, even though it was not ideal. The alternative was horrendous.

Did you know that arranged marriages are the happiest marriages by far?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#95996 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
We aren't talking about Osiris, are we? Did you want to? Frankly, I don't know enough about ancient Egyptian polytheism to know whether any of their various gods condoned or ordered rape or not.
Anyway, all this talk about rape and slavery in the Bible just goes back to my main point about the Bible being a work of it's time, which as time goes on becomes progressively farther and farther apart from modern society. The Old Testament is the product of ancient Hebrews (and is mainly Jewish revenge-porn), and the New Testament is a product of later Greek-influenced writers, but both are products of pre-Enlightenment ideas about rule via despots where one should never question the absolute ruler. It's a valuable look into ancient cultures and what their values were, to be sure, and of course there are historical references that are mostly true (except for the Exodus) but that's about it.
Do you really think you are the first to assert the demise of Christianity? Or Judaism?

LOL,

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#95997 Jan 24, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think you are the first to assert the demise of Christianity? Or Judaism?
LOL,
They are unlikely to die so much as change greatly. They have both changed quite a bit over time, no reason they should stop now. Which will include a widespread acceptance of homosexuality.

But that's OK, I have a feeling being a contrarian is it's own reward for you.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#95998 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
They are unlikely to die so much as change greatly. They have both changed quite a bit over time, no reason they should stop now. Which will include a widespread acceptance of homosexuality.
But that's OK, I have a feeling being a contrarian is it's own reward for you.
No, Christians are still too human to change much.

Yes.

SMile.

“True Blue”

Since: Jun 13

Opal-Hearted Land

#95999 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about. I am no more enslaved to my sexuality than you are. Neither have you managed to rationalize why homosexuality should be sinful. Neither do you have any idea what you are talking about with "spiritual death".
Consenting adults...The exact expression they used when they were changing the laws against homosexuality.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#96000 Jan 24, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Nothing he said is incorrect. You simply don't like what it exposes.
Their idiocy, irrational bigotry, their malinformed opinions?
KiMare wrote:
If you cared about children, and society, you would support traditional marriage as the best setting for future members of society. Children with the only true mother and father they will ever have.
Hon, if the traditional marriage they were born into were always the best case scenario for a child, you would have a point. They aren't and you don't. Good parents are going to be good parents, be they in a traditional marriage, non-traditional relationship or flying solo. Ditto the awful ones.

“True Blue”

Since: Jun 13

Opal-Hearted Land

#96001 Jan 24, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
You can wrap it up in whatever terminology you like, but it's still God following contemporary human custom. Or more accurately, the society that projects God into being changes what God's moral values and characteristics are.
It's funny to me that slavery can magically expire, shellfish becomes OK, and women can be church leaders (despite what Paul clearly said about that), and yet homosexuality is supposed to be perennially immoral for some reason. It's a puzzlement!
The Bible only condemns male homosexuality, you know. It never says I can't if I want to. Just like the law in the old days, esp under old Queen Victoria.

OTOH if I get with a man, that's fornication if we're not married. If either or both of us are married, that's adultery and one of the Commandments.

Hate to rub it in...really. Actually I might as well enjoy the one bit of reverse sexism in the whole Book. After all the rest of it is all barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen - from Adam to Moses to Paul.

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