Is homosexuality a sin?

Is homosexuality a sin?

Created by Travis Morgan on Oct 27, 2007

59,181 votes

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Yes

No

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#83553 Mar 9, 2013
Aryan Barbarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Curious what does dusty mangina mean?
Back to the claim. What part are you refuting? The people that were mentioned were homosexuals, all claimed to have been abused, so which part is bs I have been gone for awhile and realize nothing has really change. Most gays not all, post the most vile and disgusting comments. There only defense is to attack religion assuming that anyone that opposes the homosexual lifestyles and agenda is some how religious.
So tell me, Do you think it is normal to lick another persons anal cavity? Do you think it is normal to place a penis in a mans/womans anal?
Your focus on anal activity reveals more about you than you realize.

The freaks that you named do not represent homosexuals any more than the vast array of straight murderers that I could name represent heterosexuals.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#83555 Mar 9, 2013
LuLu Ford wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course he lied. He abolished the laws given by Moses on divorce. He abolished the ritual purity practices including dietary ones. These were all part of the Law of Moses supposedly given by God.
How about the following passages?
Luke 16:16
[ Additional Teachings ]“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Luke 16:16-18
Not one stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law yet the law is being ignored. It's a big lie.
As a prophet his mission to "modify certain aspects of laws given to Moses"....a modification is separate from abolition.

Jesus did not abolish the laws of Moses.

That "service" was done by St. Paul the self claimed 13th Apostle of Jesus Christ.

It was St. Paul who said "Law was a curse and now we are free from the curse".

It was St. Paul who said "If you circumcise, you will get nothing from Jesus".

You are putting the blame on wrong door, my dear.
Aryan Barbarian

Maumelle, AR

#83556 Mar 10, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
Your focus on anal activity reveals more about you than you realize.
The freaks that you named do not represent homosexuals any more than the vast array of straight murderers that I could name represent heterosexuals.
Since you keep avoiding my questions simply shows that homosexual practices are questionable.

Now lets fast forward.

How many heterosexuals claimed they became straight & murderous after being sexually abused?
Aryan Barbarian

Maumelle, AR

#83557 Mar 10, 2013
big boy wrote:
<quoted text>
AB Waz up with all the hate. I betcha I kan suck that purple helmet off better than any ho can. Check me out.
http://lj.rossia.org/users/silencefactory/tag...
It's not polite to speak with your mouth full.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#83558 Mar 10, 2013
does the Bible really state this? The short answer is, actually, no.

This is not a claim, however, that can be discussed without some honest empirical evidence to back it up, despite the right-wing proclamation of the opposite. For the long answer, let’s take a little tour of the Bible and see what it really says.

First, it should be pointed out that the sayings and teachings of Jesus make up the core of Christian belief. Homosexuality, however, is never addressed by Jesus in any of the canonic Gospels. What Jesus does talk about over and over again is oppression. Whether it was of the poor by the rich or of the powerless by the powerful.

One of the few stories about Jesus that mentions any kind of sexual sin is found in chapter 8 in the Gospel of John. Here we find a woman who had committed adultery (forbidden by the 7th commandment), but Jesus was not concerned with her sexual indiscretion. His focus was on the townspeople who wanted to stone her to death. So even in this case of sexual sin (adultery, in this case, that was clearly forbidden by Jewish law), Jesus came to the defense of the “sinner.” When he challenged the mob by saying “whoever was without sin should throw the first stone”, the people went away one by one. Then he told the accused woman that he did not condemn her. Jesus stood up for the persecuted.

There are only a handful of passages in the bible that actually deal with same-sex intercourse and none of them deal with it directly. It is always in a larger context of ritual purity, rape, prostitution or pedophilia; in other words, they are presented in situations where someone is being exploited or sexually abused. Same-sex intercourse is never addressed in the context of two mutually-consenting adults.

One passage is in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19). In it, God hears that there are more than a few indiscretions transpiring, so he sends a couple of angels to see what is happening. The person who meets them is Lot and he invites them to stay in his house and have dinner.

Then, a bunch of men from Sodom come and knock on Lot’s door. They say,“Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them.”

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#83559 Mar 10, 2013
Now, Hebrew is a funny language. The word for “know”(yada) can mean literally “to know someone”, or it can mean “to have sex with someone”. So at best, these Sodomites are saying they want to meet and literally get to know who Lot’s guests are; and at worst, they’re saying they want to have sex with Lot’s guests. Since we can assume that God’s angels aren’t interested in a casual hook-up with these guys, what the Sodomites are really saying is that they want to rape Lot’s guests.

Lot verifies this with his response:“I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.”

The wicked act in this story is not same-sex intercourse. It is rape. Rape is a horrific act that should definitely be condemned. But same-sex intercourse between consenting adults should not for a very simple reason: it hurts no one.

Let’s look at some other passages.

Leviticus 18.22 says,“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”(NRSV) And Leviticus 20.13 says,“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.”(NRSV)

The word “abomination” in these passages is not a very good translation. The Hebrew word toevah means something that is ritually unclean and it was used in lots of other contexts, particularly dietary laws. Pork is toevah. A lot of Christians who try to use these passages to condemn gay people overlook the fact that they, too, are toevah because of the bacon they had for breakfast. Bloody meat also is toevah, so that medium rare steak you had for dinner last week also made you unclean.

The fact is, Leviticus forbids a lot of questionable things that by today’s standards, most Christians ignore. For example, Leviticus 9.27 states,“You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.”(NRSV) So, according to this, a shave and a haircut are an “abomination” as well. It really depends on how you look at it, etymologically.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#83560 Mar 10, 2013
That’s it for the Hebrew Bible (or the Old Testament). Those are the only passages that mention same-sex intercourse and, as we can see, they were all in larger contexts of rape and ritual purity, not in the context of two consenting adults.

Now, let’s examine what the Christian scriptures (or New Testament) say.

All of the Christian scriptures that seem to address same-sex intercourse are attributed to one person: the apostle, Paul.

In his first letter to the Corinthians, he writes,“Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.”(1 Corinthians 6.9, NRSV)

And in his first letter to Timothy, Paul writes,“Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. This means understanding that the law is laid down, not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.”(1 Timothy 1.10, NRSV)

The word in both of these passages that is translated into English as “sodomite” is the Greek word arsenokoitais. It is a very tricky word to translate because Paul seems to be the only person ever to have used it. It is literally not found anywhere else to our knowledge in ancient Greek writings. A literal translation of this word would be a man with many beds or the more slang and vulgar version, a man who likes to fuck. This implies simply a promiscuous person—not a gay person.

Since the meaning of arsenokoitais is more than a little vague, responsible translators (such as in the NRSV) have used the similarly-vague English word “sodomite”. But even sodomy is losing its sexually vague meaning as it has begun to evolve into a word for anal intercourse (which has only added to the confusion of this issue). A better word for modern translations might be “slut”, but this word unfortunately usually implies a female whereas Paul’s passages refer specifically to men. There is simply no word in the English language that means “male slut”. All of this is useful, however, to illustrate the sexist bias our culture gives to men. Promiscuous women are called sluts whereas promiscuous men are called studs? It’s an interesting detail to note.

Unfortunately, to make this problem even worse, there are some very irresponsible translators (e.g. NIV and New Living) that have begun to use the English word “homosexual” for the Greek arsenokoitais. This is very irresponsible because now a lot of relatively unknowing Christians use these poor translations and say,“See? It says right there: homosexuality is a sin!”

The only other passage in the New Testament that addresses same-sex intercourse is in Paul’s letter to the Romans where he writes,“For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.(Romans 1. 26-17, NRSV)

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#83561 Mar 10, 2013
If we read these passages carefully, we see it is not passion that is bad, but degrading passions. It is not intercourse that is frowned upon, but unnatural intercourse. In other words, if you are engaging in sex acts that don’t feel right for you, then you should stop. For a heterosexual, it would feel unnatural to engage in same-sex activities. But for a gay man or a lesbian, the opposite is true! For gays and lesbians, the natural thing for them is same-sex intercourse.

I think Benjamin Franklin punched the issue right in the nose when he wrote,“Sin is not harmful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is harmful.” The fact is that it seems like most Christians need to step back from their Bibles, take a deep breath, and just ask themselves what the issue really is here.

Jesus had it right. The bottom line is this: who is being oppressed and persecuted? Who is getting hurt? Rape is bad—it hurts people. Pedophilia is bad—it hurts children. Violence is bad. Killing is bad. Starvation is bad. Lying is bad. Stealing is bad. War is bad. Racism is bad. Sexism is bad. These things hurt people.

And homophobia, too, is bad. It also hurts people.

Men kissing men in consent doesn’t hurt anyone. And neither does women kissing women. If they are consenting adults, it’s all good. And if they love one another, then God blesses that relationship. God really likes it when people love one another.

And we should too.

So, it should be a really easy call for those of us who call ourselves Christians.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#83562 Mar 10, 2013
LuLu Ford wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course he lied. He abolished the laws given by Moses on divorce. He abolished the ritual purity practices including dietary ones. These were all part of the Law of Moses supposedly given by God.
How about the following passages?
Luke 16:16
[ Additional Teachings ]“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
Luke 16:16-18
Not one stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law yet the law is being ignored. It's a big lie.
Honey, you only confirm you are a blonde ignorant about Biblical theology. I'd suggest you read some balanced sources..,

Please, what did Jesus change about divorce?

Here is one of many passages that explain the purpose of the Law. Others explain the change. Hebrews would be a good example.

Galatians 3:2-12 (MSG)
2 Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you?
3 Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it?
4 Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
5 Answer this question: Does the God who lavishly provides you with his own presence, his Holy Spirit, working things in your lives you could never do for yourselves, does he do these things because of your strenuous moral striving or because you trust him to do them in you?
6 Don't these things happen among you just as they happened with Abraham? He believed God, and that act of belief was turned into a life that was right with God.
7 Is it not obvious to you that persons who put their trust in Christ (not persons who put their trust in the law!) are like Abraham: children of faith?
8 It was all laid out beforehand in Scripture that God would set things right with non-Jews by faith. Scripture anticipated this in the promise to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed in you."
9 So those now who live by faith are blessed along with Abraham, who lived by faith—this is no new doctrine!
10 And that means that anyone who tries to live by his own effort, independent of God, is doomed to failure. Scripture backs this up: "Utterly cursed is every person who fails to carry out every detail written in the Book of the law."
11 The obvious impossibility of carrying out such a moral program should make it plain that no one can sustain a relationship with God that way. The person who lives in right relationship with God does it by embracing what God arranges for him. Doing things for God is the opposite of entering into what God does for you. Habakkuk had it right: "The person who believes God, is set right by God—and that's the real life."
12 Rule-keeping does not naturally evolve into living by faith, but only perpetuates itself in more and more rule-keeping, a fact observed in Scripture: "The one who does these things [rule-keeping]continues to live by them."

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#83563 Mar 10, 2013
Allan Watts wrote:
If we read these passages carefully, we see it is not passion that is bad, but degrading passions. It is not intercourse that is frowned upon, but unnatural intercourse. In other words, if you are engaging in sex acts that don’t feel right for you, then you should stop. For a heterosexual, it would feel unnatural to engage in same-sex activities. But for a gay man or a lesbian, the opposite is true! For gays and lesbians, the natural thing for them is same-sex intercourse.
I think Benjamin Franklin punched the issue right in the nose when he wrote,“Sin is not harmful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is harmful.” The fact is that it seems like most Christians need to step back from their Bibles, take a deep breath, and just ask themselves what the issue really is here.
Jesus had it right. The bottom line is this: who is being oppressed and persecuted? Who is getting hurt? Rape is bad—it hurts people. Pedophilia is bad—it hurts children. Violence is bad. Killing is bad. Starvation is bad. Lying is bad. Stealing is bad. War is bad. Racism is bad. Sexism is bad. These things hurt people.
And homophobia, too, is bad. It also hurts people.
Men kissing men in consent doesn’t hurt anyone. And neither does women kissing women. If they are consenting adults, it’s all good. And if they love one another, then God blesses that relationship. God really likes it when people love one another.
And we should too.
So, it should be a really easy call for those of us who call ourselves Christians.
Allan, you begin by leaving out the last words of Jesus to the adulterous woman. Words that undermine your assertion.

Everything you say in between is similar gay twirl that needs a Paul Harvey 'rest of the story' and Fox News 'fact check'.

You end with a another slimy distortion about harm.

Of course two men kissing harms no one. However, if we go to the most intimate expression of gay men, the imitation of natural intercourse, we find that anal sex is inherently harmful, unhealthy and demeaning.

Smirk.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#83565 Mar 10, 2013
Aryan Barbarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you keep avoiding my questions simply shows that homosexual practices are questionable.
Now lets fast forward.
How many heterosexuals claimed they became straight & murderous after being sexually abused?
The abuse of a child is a detestable thing. Your attempts to connect child abuse and sexuality are misguided. How do you know that the sickos you mentioned "became" gay because they were abused? It's just as likely, if not more so, that their abusers already saw a vulnerable child and preyed upon them.

Further, you have not cited any sources to support your assertions that there is a connection, nor have you proven that anyone on your list claimed to become gay subsequent to being abused.

Before you ask others to disprove your argument, it wouldl be best to prove it.

But, like Kuntmary, you simply put some words (disguised as ideas) into a thread and present them as facts.

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#83566 Mar 10, 2013
Rosa Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
That troll has now cloned Arctic's account, just like it's stolen everyone else's name on here. Some people really need a life, hey?
LOL

Nothing unusual.
They say that imitation is a form of flattery.
He must really like me:)

_Olive_

“unstoppable”

Since: Jul 11

Hell

#83567 Mar 10, 2013
arctic wrote:
<quoted text>
Sweetie that's not me.
Look again. It's a cloned acct.
oh sorry, Artic.

_Olive_

“unstoppable”

Since: Jul 11

Hell

#83568 Mar 10, 2013
Aryan Barbarian wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Lu,
Agreed , I should of stated not all but all gay killers had been abused. Please don't tell me you knew some gay killers that weren't abused. Seriously, I hope all is going well with you in the new year.
Hatred is what kills, Aryan Barbarian.

_Olive_

“unstoppable”

Since: Jul 11

Hell

#83569 Mar 10, 2013
Rosa Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
That troll has now cloned Arctic's account, just like it's stolen everyone else's name on here. Some people really need a life, hey?
No kidding! Hello Rosa Winkel, have a great Sunday.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#83570 Mar 10, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
As a prophet his mission to "modify certain aspects of laws given to Moses"....a modification is separate from abolition.
Jesus did not abolish the laws of Moses.
That "service" was done by St. Paul the self claimed 13th Apostle of Jesus Christ.
It was St. Paul who said "Law was a curse and now we are free from the curse".
It was St. Paul who said "If you circumcise, you will get nothing from Jesus".
You are putting the blame on wrong door, my dear.
Then he lied. The law was changed by him.

Self proclaimed Apostle? You must be kidding me.

Paul is nothing more than "the word of Paul." Paul carries no weight.

Circumcision also changed the law.

It seems you are arguing against yourself here bro.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#83571 Mar 10, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Honey, you only confirm you are a blonde ignorant about Biblical theology. I'd suggest you read some balanced sources..,
Please, what did Jesus change about divorce?
Here is one of many passages that explain the purpose of the Law. Others explain the change. Hebrews would be a good example.
Galatians 3:2-12 (MSG)
2 Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you?
3 Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it?
4 Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
5 Answer this question: Does the God who lavishly provides you with his own presence, his Holy Spirit, working things in your lives you could never do for yourselves, does he do these things because of your strenuous moral striving or because you trust him to do them in you?
6 Don't these things happen among you just as they happened with Abraham? He believed God, and that act of belief was turned into a life that was right with God.
7 Is it not obvious to you that persons who put their trust in Christ (not persons who put their trust in the law!) are like Abraham: children of faith?
8 It was all laid out beforehand in Scripture that God would set things right with non-Jews by faith. Scripture anticipated this in the promise to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed in you."
9 So those now who live by faith are blessed along with Abraham, who lived by faith—this is no new doctrine!
10 And that means that anyone who tries to live by his own effort, independent of God, is doomed to failure. Scripture backs this up: "Utterly cursed is every person who fails to carry out every detail written in the Book of the law."
11 The obvious impossibility of carrying out such a moral program should make it plain that no one can sustain a relationship with God that way. The person who lives in right relationship with God does it by embracing what God arranges for him. Doing things for God is the opposite of entering into what God does for you. Habakkuk had it right: "The person who believes God, is set right by God—and that's the real life."
12 Rule-keeping does not naturally evolve into living by faith, but only perpetuates itself in more and more rule-keeping, a fact observed in Scripture: "The one who does these things [rule-keeping]continues to live by them."
The Law had many requirements. Jesus disregarded many yet said the following.

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Paul, the self proclaimed Apostle, carries no weight.

Jesus lied. He changed the Law.

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#83576 Mar 10, 2013
arctlc wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the profile, buttwiper.
I did.

It was stupid;)

“Trolls are Clueless”

Since: Dec 07

Aptos, California

#83577 Mar 10, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
As a prophet his mission to "modify certain aspects of laws given to Moses"....a modification is separate from abolition.
Jesus did not abolish the laws of Moses.
That "service" was done by St. Paul the self claimed 13th Apostle of Jesus Christ.
It was St. Paul who said "Law was a curse and now we are free from the curse".
It was St. Paul who said "If you circumcise, you will get nothing from Jesus".
You are putting the blame on wrong door, my dear.
What about this?

Luke 11:46
Jesus replied,“And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

And this?
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said,‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

Basically Jesus was saying the written Law was shit.

“Trolls are Clueless”

Since: Dec 07

Aptos, California

#83578 Mar 10, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Then he lied. The law was changed by him.
Self proclaimed Apostle? You must be kidding me.
Paul is nothing more than "the word of Paul." Paul carries no weight.
Circumcision also changed the law.
It seems you are arguing against yourself here bro.
Jesus didn't lie. He was speaking only of the Ten Commandments. He did not approve the Law of Moses.

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