created by: inquiring minds | Jan 4, 2013

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17,784 votes

Was 911 an Inside Job

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  • YES
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  • Don't know
  • Possibly
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3,661 - 3,680 of 4,996 Comments Last updated Tuesday Jul 8
murray

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#3884
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Venguer wrote:
No!
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Mch E

Anonymous Proxy

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#3885
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Porkpie Hat wrote:
..
You've just totally validated my point that unless a explicit statement is made, you won't understand it. Here's the skinny proxy sock, the paper is written for engineers and not for imbecilic little weenies who can't recognise conditions such as free fall within the tables and terminology of the paper.
..
For the benefit of the few engineers who happen upon this thread, can you provide the quotes from the draft report that acknowledge a period of free-fall of the roof line of WTC-7?

“Twoof, a true act of ignorance”

Since: Jun 09

Three Hills, Canada

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#3886
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Mch E wrote:
<quoted text>For the benefit of the few engineers who happen upon this thread, can you provide the quotes from the draft report that acknowledge a period of free-fall of the roof line of WTC-7?
Go read it proxy sock.

They're there, but not written in crayon for you and your inept ilk.

Any progress on proving free fall is anything but just another meaningless twoofer canard?

Didn't think so.
Sally

Toronto, Canada

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#3887
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Porkpie Hat wrote:
<quoted text>
This sounds like confirmation that you cannot back your claim.(You have the time for meaningless responses, but no time for anything of substance).

Since: Aug 11

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#3888
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Mch E wrote:
<quoted text>
For the benefit of the few engineers who happen upon this thread, can you provide the quotes from the draft report that acknowledge a period of free-fall of the roof line of WTC-7?
There is only one peer-reviewed study on the collapses. It is in agreement with the official version of events.
Peer Reviewed Papper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3889
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Below is the list of people who have staked their reputations on the only paper which passed the scrutiny of peer review regarding the WTC tragedy...
For those who may think that no one has written a peer reviewed paper on the collapse of the towers here it is...
"Walter P. Murphy Professor of
Civil Engineering and Materials Science
Northwestern University
The towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total collapse occur? The reason is the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature. The heating caused creep buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the structure, which transmits the vertical load to the ground. The likely scenario of failure may be explained as follows...
http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce....
The version linked above, to appear in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics (ASCE), was revised and extended (with Yong Zhou on September 22 and additional appendices on September 28) since the original text of September 13, which was immediately posted at various civil engineering web sites, e.g. University of Illinios. It also has been or soon will be published in a number of other journals, including Archives of Applied Mechanics, Studi i Ricerche, and SIAM News:
Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou, "Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?", Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics News, vol. 34, No. 8 (October, 2001).
That means it's not just a document, book, web site or calculation on a forum. It's had to pass critical review by other engineering Professors.
I know there are CT sites which attack this paper but not one person has yet to disprove its hypothesis professionally. There are still people attacking the theory of evolution. Anyone can attack, not many can produce a paper to back it up. Just as there is no "theory of intelligent design" except on Christian web sites, there are no alternatives to this paper other than in CT sites and books."
http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/
The paper... http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce....
http://www.pubs.asce.org/journals/edem.html
Editor:
Peer Reviewed Papper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3890
Apr 6, 2013
 

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oss B. Corotis, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., NAE, University of Colorado, Boulder
corotis@colorado.edu
http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/p...
Editorial Board:
Younane Abousleiman, Ph.D., University of Oklahoma http://mpge.ou.edu/faculty_staff/faculty.html
Ching S. Chang, Ph.D., P.E., University of Massachusetts http://www.ecs.umass.edu/cee/faculty/chang.ht...
Joel P. Conte, Ph.D., P.E., University of California, San Diego
http://kudu.ucsd.edu/
Henri Gavin, Duke University
http://www.cee.duke.edu/faculty/gavin/index.p...
Bojan B. Guzina, University of Minnesota
http://www.ce.umn.edu/people/faculty/guzina/
Christian Hellmich, Dr.Tech., Vienna University of Technology
http://whitepages.tuwien.ac.at/oid/998877.htm...
Peer Reviewed Papper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3891
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Lambros Katafygiotis, Ph.D., Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
http://lambros.ce.ust.hk/
Nik Katopodes, Ph.D., University of Michigan
http://www.engin.umich.edu/dept/cee/prospecti...
Nicos Makris, University of Patras
http://www.civil.upatras.gr/Melidep_gr/depi_e...
Robert J. Martinuzzi, P.E., University of Calgary
http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/2005/who...
Arif Masud, Ph.D., University of Illinois, Chicago
http://www.uic.edu/depts/bioe/faculty/core_fa...
Arvid Naess, Ph.D., Norwegian University of Science and Technology
http://www.bygg.ntnu.no/~arvidn/front.htm
Khaled W. Shahwan, Daimler Chrysler Corporation
http://www.pubs.asce.org/WWWdisplay.cgi...
George Voyiadjis, Ph.D., EIT, Louisiana State University
http://www.cee.lsu.edu/facultyStaff/Voyiadjis...
Yunping Xi, Ph.D., University of Colorado
http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/p...
Engineering Mechanics Division Executive Committee
Alexander D. Cheng, Ph.D., M.ASCE, Chair
http://home.olemiss.edu/~acheng/
James L. Beck, Ph.D., M.ASCE
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~jimbeck/
Roger G. Ghanem, Ph.D., M.ASCE
http://ame-www.usc.edu/personnel/ghanem/index...
Wilfred D. Iwan, M.ASCE
http://www.eas.caltech.edu/fac_i-m.html#i
Chiang C. Mei, M.ASCE
http://cee.mit.edu/index.pl...
Verna L. Jameson, ASCE Staff Contact
Journal of Engineering Mechanics
More links to civil engineering papers and other information concerning the WTC collapse...
Bazant, Z.P., & Zhou, Y.
"Addendum to 'Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?- Simple Analysis" (pdf)
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 3,(2002): 369-370.
Brannigan, F.L.
Peer Reviewed Papper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3892
Apr 6, 2013
 

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"WTC: Lightweight Steel and High-Rise Buildings"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 4,(2002): 145-150.
Clifton, Charles G.
Elaboration on Aspects of the Postulated Collapse of the World Trade Centre Twin Towers
HERA: Innovation in Metals. 2001. 13 December 2001.
"Construction and Collapse Factors"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10,(2002): 106-108.
Corbett, G.P.
"Learning and Applying the Lessons of the WTC Disaster"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10,(2002.): 133-135.
"Dissecting the Collapses"
Civil Engineering ASCE v. 72, no. 5,(2002): 36-46.
Eagar, T.W., & Musso, C.
"Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation"
JOM v. 53, no. 12,(2001): 8-12.
Federal Emergency Management Agency, Therese McAllister, report editor.
World Trade Center Building Performance Study: Data Collection, Preliminary Observations, and Recommendations
(also available on-line)
Gabrielson, T.B., Poese, M.E., & Atchley, A.A.
"Acoustic and Vibration Background Noise in the Collapsed Structure of the World Trade Center"
The Journal of Acoustical Society of America v. 113, no. 1,(2003): 45-48.
"Collapse Lessons"
Fire Engineering v. 155, no. 10,(2002): 97-103
Marechaux, T.G.
"TMS Hot Topic Symposium Examines WTC Collapse and Building Engineering"
JOM, v. 54, no. 4,(2002): 13-17.
Monahan, B.
"World Trade Center Collapse-Civil Engineering Considerations"
Practice Periodical on Structural Design and Construction v. 7, no. 3,(2002): 134-135.
Newland, D.E., & Cebon, D.
"Could the World Trade Center Have Been Modified to Prevent Its Collapse?"
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 7,(2002):795-800.
National Instititue of Stamdards and Technology: Congressional and Legislative Affairs
“Learning from 9/11: Understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center”
Statement of Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr., before Committee of Science House of Representatives, United States Congress on March 6, 2002.
Pinsker, Lisa, M.
"Applying Geology at the World Trade Center Site"
Geotimes v. 46, no. 11,(2001).
The print copy has 3-D images.
Public Broadcasting Station (PBS)
Why the Towers Fell: A Companion Website to the Television Documentary.
NOVA (Science Programming On Air and Online)
Post, N.M.
"No Code Changes Recommended in World Trade Center Report"
ENR v. 248, no. 14,(2002): 14.
Post, N.M.
"Study Absolves Twin Tower Trusses, Fireproofing"
ENR v. 249, no. 19,(2002): 12-14.
The University of Sydney, Department of Civil Engineering
World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects
A resource site.
"WTC Engineers Credit Design in Saving Thousands of Lives"
ENR v. 247, no. 16,(2001): 12.
Peer Reviewed Paper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3893
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Structure Magazine, a well respected magazine for structural engineers, has come out with a probable collapse hypothesis. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos.

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/...

Yet another peer reviewed paper from a respected Journal finds the towers were doomed to collapse.

9/11 demolition theory challenged

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.
The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The new data shows this is not needed to explain the way the towers fell.

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localized failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behavior of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronized rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/698...

Dr. Keith A. Seffen

http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~kas14/

http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm
This Says It All

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3894
Apr 6, 2013
 

Judged:

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Structure Magazine, a well respected magazine for structural engineers, has come out with a probable collapse hypothesis. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos.

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/ ...

Yet another peer reviewed paper from a respected Journal finds the towers were doomed to collapse.

9/11 demolition theory challenged

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.
The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The new data shows this is not needed to explain the way the towers fell.

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localized failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behavior of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronized rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/698 ...

Dr. Keith A. Seffen

Since: Aug 11

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#3895
Apr 6, 2013
 

Judged:

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This Says It All wrote:
Structure Magazine, a well respected magazine for structural engineers, has come out with a probable collapse hypothesis. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos.
http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/ ...
Yet another peer reviewed paper from a respected Journal finds the towers were doomed to collapse.
9/11 demolition theory challenged
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.
The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.
One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".
The new data shows this is not needed to explain the way the towers fell.
Resistance to collapse
Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.
Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localized failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.
In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.
"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.
Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.
His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.
This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.
He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behavior of the buildings.
The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronized rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.
This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.
Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.
Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/698 ...
Dr. Keith A. Seffen
Thanks. This is the only peer reviewed paper on the subject of WTC building collapse.
LOL

France

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#3897
Apr 6, 2013
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. This is the only peer reviewed paper on the subject of WTC building collapse.
I also want to express thanks! I am very amused by this speculative work that purports to describe a "single point failure" in a highly redundant structure as somehow being responsible for sudden, symmetric free fall collapse of the entire perimeter!

Ha!

Now, if you'll only fix that second link! I'm especially fond of British humour!

Since: Aug 11

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#3898
Apr 7, 2013
 

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LOL wrote:
<quoted text>
I also want to express thanks! I am very amused by this speculative work that purports to describe a "single point failure" in a highly redundant structure as somehow being responsible for sudden, symmetric free fall collapse of the entire perimeter!
Ha!
Now, if you'll only fix that second link! I'm especially fond of British humour!
The work is written by an eminent engineer and peer reviewed. Go back to watching your cartoons. You have nothing of technical relevance to contribute here.
Says It All

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3899
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

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Was 911 an Inside Job
No 8,907 56%
YES 6,651 42%
Possibly 48 0%
Don't know 35 0%
Current Total 15,641
Says It All

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#3900
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

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How long will it take our buddy Timie to reverse this poll? ROTFLMAO

Unemployed truck driver with no life.
Frontal Lobotomy Rocks

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3902
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

6

6

4

Venguer wrote:
No
Come on now. Everybody with half a brain knows the 9/11 was an inside job. Take me. I don't have hardly any brain left and I know that every person in the United States is a 9/11 conspirator.

Since: Aug 11

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#3903
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

4

4

3

Frontal Lobotomy Rocks wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on now. Everybody with half a brain knows the 9/11 was an inside job. Take me. I don't have hardly any brain left and I know that every person in the United States is a 9/11 conspirator.
I agree. It takes a halfwit to say 9/11 is an inside job. GTFOH troll.
Papper

Logan, WV

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#3904
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

6

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Peer Reviewed Papper wrote:
oss B. Corotis, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., NAE, University of Colorado, Boulder
corotis@colorado.edu
http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/p...
Editorial Board:
Younane Abousleiman, Ph.D., University of Oklahoma http://mpge.ou.edu/faculty_staff/faculty.html
Ching S. Chang, Ph.D., P.E., University of Massachusetts http://www.ecs.umass.edu/cee/faculty/chang.ht...
Joel P. Conte, Ph.D., P.E., University of California, San Diego
http://kudu.ucsd.edu/
Henri Gavin, Duke University
http://www.cee.duke.edu/faculty/gavin/index.p...
Bojan B. Guzina, University of Minnesota
http://www.ce.umn.edu/people/faculty/guzina/
Christian Hellmich, Dr.Tech., Vienna University of Technology
http://whitepages.tuwien.ac.at/oid/998877.htm...
papper rhymes with flapper, as in flapping your gums, and you're really good at it. Did you really think anyone bothered reading any of these 'peer-reviewed pappers'? It's kind of like when you're flapping your gums, no one is paying attention.
Flapper Papper

Scotts Valley, CA

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#3905
Apr 7, 2013
 

Judged:

3

2

1

Papper wrote:
<quoted text>
papper rhymes with flapper, as in flapping your gums, and you're really good at it. Did you really think anyone bothered reading any of these 'peer-reviewed pappers'? It's kind of like when you're flapping your gums, no one is paying attention.
Don't read anything, you might learn something.

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