Nothing to see here...move along.

Nothing to see here...move along.

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“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#1 Aug 29, 2012
"One good turn deserves another"...or does it?

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...or not?

"Two wrongs don't make a right"...okay, I can go with that.

"Honesty is the best policy"...unless you make policy for a living.

What is right? What is wrong? Humanity has been more than a little interested in having these questions answered. Some believe that the answers have been found, that we must follow a set of rules or laws to be right, or righteous. Others are still asking the most basic of questions concerning morality and ethics. Some have abandoned the search in favor of irresponsibility.

Ethics, morality, right, wrong, good, evil...will there ever be a thousand year stretch where a distinction goes unchallenged? Will we ever, all of us, agree on a code, a law, a guide?

I think it's unlikely we will ever attain such a stability. In my view, the best we can hope to achieve is a methodology, or a process, by which we can measure our behavior, learn from our mistakes, and change when needed, always questioning and considering whether we are right or wrong.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#2 Aug 29, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
"One good turn deserves another"...or does it?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...or not?
"Two wrongs don't make a right"...okay, I can go with that.
"Honesty is the best policy"...unless you make policy for a living.
What is right? What is wrong? Humanity has been more than a little interested in having these questions answered. Some believe that the answers have been found, that we must follow a set of rules or laws to be right, or righteous. Others are still asking the most basic of questions concerning morality and ethics. Some have abandoned the search in favor of irresponsibility.
Ethics, morality, right, wrong, good, evil...will there ever be a thousand year stretch where a distinction goes unchallenged? Will we ever, all of us, agree on a code, a law, a guide?
I think it's unlikely we will ever attain such a stability. In my view, the best we can hope to achieve is a methodology, or a process, by which we can measure our behavior, learn from our mistakes, and change when needed, always questioning and considering whether we are right or wrong.
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."

Kant

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#3 Aug 29, 2012
Do not kill.
Do not murder.
Do not take another's life.

This would seem at first glance to be a good start on a rule. It's better for those that are alive, to stay alive, when they want to stay alive. What if they don't? What if they are threatening to kill others? What if they are going to kill others unless someone stops them?

Is our only choice in stopping someone to kill them? It's a convenient choice. With a gun, it's fairly easy. What if they've already killed lots of people? Is it okay to kill them right back?

What if someone wants to die? Is killing them wrong? Is them killing themselves wrong? If they are suffering, does that make a difference?

We have laws that serve an important function in our society. Those laws are designed to protect us, for the most part. Laws often parallel popular beliefs concerning morality, but they should not be based on morality.

We have confusion in the USA over what is right and wrong, what is moral, what is ethical, and I don't see a lot of people questioning the status quo.

Is killing in war justifiable? Across the board? Do we investigate every killing? Will anyone be held accountable? Is the boss at fault, the grunt, or the middleman?

To be perfectly honest, we live in a clusterfuck. One thing that clearly does not work, is not thinking about it. We can't just close the book on ethics. We can't shove it under the rug. We can't turn and look the other way. We need to face our problems head on. But we usually don't. It's too much work. It would cause too much change, or too much stress, either to fix the problems, or live with knowing exactly how bad they are.

I think it's at least worth bringing up.

Rant over.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#4 Aug 29, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
"One good turn deserves another"...or does it?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...or not?
"Two wrongs don't make a right"...okay, I can go with that.
"Honesty is the best policy"...unless you make policy for a living.
What is right? What is wrong? Humanity has been more than a little interested in having these questions answered. Some believe that the answers have been found, that we must follow a set of rules or laws to be right, or righteous. Others are still asking the most basic of questions concerning morality and ethics. Some have abandoned the search in favor of irresponsibility.
Ethics, morality, right, wrong, good, evil...will there ever be a thousand year stretch where a distinction goes unchallenged? Will we ever, all of us, agree on a code, a law, a guide?
I think it's unlikely we will ever attain such a stability. In my view, the best we can hope to achieve is a methodology, or a process, by which we can measure our behavior, learn from our mistakes, and change when needed, always questioning and considering whether we are right or wrong.
Yeah. I try to embrace the personal standard or code of not increasing suffering, and try to lessen it when that chance presents itself.

The mental aspect of suffering is a little bit more unclear at times.

I can tell that some of those who are more faith oriented suffer when certain things are presented or pointed out, but, then again, they believe all is suffering anyway, so, in my own special way - I'm making them happy by increasing their suffering.þ)

I don't think there will be a time where everyone will be on the same page.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#5 Aug 29, 2012
OOPS.. Better...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#6 Aug 29, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
Kant
Kant is good.

Kant is something some people can't do.

To them Kant is awful, even though they in general will state as a personally held view things that Kant spoke of.
just saying

Reynoldsburg, OH

#7 Aug 30, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
Kant
What? That makes no sense.
Just ME

Cape Girardeau, MO

#8 Aug 30, 2012
Perhaps NOT. We only understand what we know to understand. What makes sense to you ... to me ... to anyone else in view ... who is to say ....
... what makes sense to anyone of us at any given moment in time.

NOW ... does that make any sense?

***interesting and thought provoking ... but Nothing to see here ... move on. No think I'll stay for a bit longer.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#9 Aug 30, 2012
Nontheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. I try to embrace the personal standard or code of not increasing suffering, and try to lessen it when that chance presents itself.
The mental aspect of suffering is a little bit more unclear at times.
I can tell that some of those who are more faith oriented suffer when certain things are presented or pointed out, but, then again, they believe all is suffering anyway, so, in my own special way - I'm making them happy by increasing their suffering.þ)
I don't think there will be a time where everyone will be on the same page.
What about the social pressure aspect of morality? We have a Christian majority in America, forcing their morality on everyone through various means, sometimes doing real harm. Is anyone really "right" pushing their "right/wrong" on others?

I don't need everyone to follow my ethical code. I'd like them to. It's not hard. I mean, for me, it's not hard.

Is there anything that everyone can follow?

I gotta go to work. I'll probably bring up foreign policy soon.
Just ME

Cape Girardeau, MO

#10 Aug 30, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the social pressure aspect of morality? We have a Christian majority in America, forcing their morality on everyone through various means, sometimes doing real harm. Is anyone really "right" pushing their "right/wrong" on others?
I don't need everyone to follow my ethical code. I'd like them to. It's not hard. I mean, for me, it's not hard.
Is there anything that everyone can follow?
I gotta go to work. I'll probably bring up foreign policy soon.
I AM following YOU. You are brilliant/intelligent/have powerful and insightful and positive opinions. I like that you DARE to be you and don't try to bleach it down one bit!
Peace to YOU and YOUR's too!
:)
Just ME

Cape Girardeau, MO

#11 Aug 30, 2012
CLUELESS - who ME?

LOL

If that were true ... I'd be in a room full of other's perhaps ... like you too ... on occasion?
;)

****i'm just me and my opinion matters too. Sorry, if they don't appreciate, but don't much give a hoot what they think of any just ME's out here!
:))

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#12 Aug 30, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the social pressure aspect of morality? We have a Christian majority in America, forcing their morality on everyone through various means, sometimes doing real harm. Is anyone really "right" pushing their "right/wrong" on others?
I don't need everyone to follow my ethical code. I'd like them to. It's not hard. I mean, for me, it's not hard.
Is there anything that everyone can follow?
I gotta go to work. I'll probably bring up foreign policy soon.
You look at Christian morality, and by that I mean the morality that they espouse as having been given by the deity in the bible as being the perfect morality. It can't be improved upon, according to them, but then we see numerous adjustments of that 'god morality", made by Christians - outside of any deity or biblical directive.

Yeah, they'll point to the "We just need to love everyone, that's what the Jesus said...." But then don't practice that one.

Which really doesn't qualify as a moral in my book. It's more of a mandate. Like a law. It's against the law to murder. The law itself may be moral.

To follow that law because the result is a death penalty or life imprisonment isn't an indication of morality.

It's when you do things without a mandate or law, or directive and you do them solely because you are following what you know to be the right thing with no reward or punishment involved for doing that, is when you've shown a moral. But that's my opinion.

And, yeah, I agree, I don't want to enforce my morals or ethics on anyone, but then again, like with a law that prohibits murder, that's a moral law.

Sometimes a society has to provide those moral checks in order to allow those who are moral and don't need those checks, to live and not be murdered(etc...) by those with no moral compass or standard.

Because you know if we didn't have those in place, the ones without the standard, would cross those lines, which in turn would require the moral people, at times, to either perish, or toss their moral code out the door in order to survive<(which doesn't say a lot about a moral standard).

But you do what you gotta do when faced with what comes up, and when the immoral violate the moral, they've set the parameter to react and do something that you would have never done in the first place.

Which sorta validates morals in the end, even though you had to violate them in order to survive and add your morality to the collective.

Which is the goal. The continuance of those who are moral because they are, not because they feel they have to be or are under an imperative to do so in order to avoid a punishment or gain a prize for doing something that like you said, isn't hard to do.

Be moral. It seems like an easy thing to do.

But obviously people need guidelines, penalties and rewards to do that.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#13 Aug 30, 2012
scaritual wrote:
You look at Christian morality, and by that I mean the morality that they espouse as having been given by the deity in the bible as being the perfect morality. It can't be improved upon, according to them, but then we see numerous adjustments of that 'god morality", made by Christians - outside of any deity or biblical directive.
Yeah, they'll point to the "We just need to love everyone, that's what the Jesus said...." But then don't practice that one.
Which really doesn't qualify as a moral in my book. It's more of a mandate. Like a law. It's against the law to murder. The law itself may be moral.
To follow that law because the result is a death penalty or life imprisonment isn't an indication of morality.
It's when you do things without a mandate or law, or directive and you do them solely because you are following what you know to be the right thing with no reward or punishment involved for doing that, is when you've shown a moral. But that's my opinion.
And, yeah, I agree, I don't want to enforce my morals or ethics on anyone, but then again, like with a law that prohibits murder, that's a moral law.
Sometimes a society has to provide those moral checks in order to allow those who are moral and don't need those checks, to live and not be murdered(etc...) by those with no moral compass or standard.
Because you know if we didn't have those in place, the ones without the standard, would cross those lines, which in turn would require the moral people, at times, to either perish, or toss their moral code out the door in order to survive<(which doesn't say a lot about a moral standard).
But you do what you gotta do when faced with what comes up, and when the immoral violate the moral, they've set the parameter to react and do something that you would have never done in the first place.
Which sorta validates morals in the end, even though you had to violate them in order to survive and add your morality to the collective.
Which is the goal. The continuance of those who are moral because they are, not because they feel they have to be or are under an imperative to do so in order to avoid a punishment or gain a prize for doing something that like you said, isn't hard to do.
Be moral. It seems like an easy thing to do.
But obviously people need guidelines, penalties and rewards to do that.
Nice.

I'm reminded of IANS's use of the term pseudo principle. Love your neighbor, unless they are gay or perhaps a witch. If they are an atheist, love them all the way to Hell.

I'm watching Hunger Games. It's grrrrrreat!

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#14 Aug 30, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
It's when you do things without a mandate or law, or directive and you do them solely because you are following what you know to be the right thing with no reward or punishment involved for doing that, is when you've shown a moral. But that's my opinion.
And, yeah, I agree, I don't want to enforce my morals or ethics on anyone, but then again, like with a law that prohibits murder, that's a moral law.
.. have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts ??..

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#15 Aug 30, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts ??..
No.

I sure wish you would, once in a while.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#16 Aug 30, 2012
Just ME wrote:
I AM following YOU. You are brilliant/intelligent/have powerful and insightful and positive opinions. I like that you DARE to be you and don't try to bleach it down one bit!
Peace to YOU and YOUR's too!
:)
You're too kind.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#17 Aug 30, 2012
Hi, guys.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#18 Aug 30, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
Hi, guys.
.. checking, checking, checking ..

.. drat, I don't belong here ..

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#19 Aug 30, 2012
Any cat lovers in the room?

I'm watching Puss N Boots.

HL? Have you seen this movie?

It's pretty good...nothing like Hunger Games but pretty good.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#20 Aug 30, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. checking, checking, checking ..
.. drat, I don't belong here ..
You are "one of the guys".

Face it, dude.

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