Christian Lies Exposed

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48312 Jun 18, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
So far all I've gathered from what you wrote is that you say you accept ALL Jesus said, yet you haven't exactly presented ANY evidence that he said everything you refer to. It appears you have no standard... that is you make your own relative standard... one to your liking.
BS - I doubt that you have paid any attention to my posts, but only garner what you wish to respond to from the ones. You are projecting from unfounded "sources".

I've posted this link many times on Topix.....and to say you haven't seen my posts, is just plain lying.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlalpha.html

GoThomas is probably your best bet for what Jesus stated.
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
For instance, it seems that you would give equal or greater credence to the gospel of Thomas which was discovered in Greece (and is of Syriac origin), and of which there is only one copy from 350 AD and a couple fragments of earlier origin, as you would other manuscripts of which there are thousands of and originated around 70 AD in the land where these most important events took place.
...and yet you accept a Bible that was produced well after the 4th C. Hmmmm....your version of this story is starting to fall apart.

FACT: the two earliest bibles in museums are dated no earlier than the 4th C. as well, and in fact, both do not have the longer ending in GoMark - Mk 16:9-20 - in which later editions do.
- Codex Siniaticus
- Codex Vaticanus

Who's following whom again?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

And please stop whining about what you have to believe and what you refuse to believe. We already understand that you have to take direction from everyone else, EXCEPT Jesus, when you try to formulate a belief.

(3) Jesus says:

(1) "If those who lead you say to you:‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
(2) If they say to you:‘It is in the sea,’ then the fishes will precede you.
(3) Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and outside of you."
(4) "When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known,
and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
(5) But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty."

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gth_pat_rob.htm

<<continued to TM>>

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48313 Jun 18, 2014
<<continued to TM>>
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is that?
Because after 325 CE - when the "Constantine Bible" was created, the so-called "Catholic Church" decided for you and others, that any and all other documents that were not included or approved to be used - were either destroyed, burned, or confiscated, so the masses would not use them. If you were caught utilizing those "heretic" documents and texts - you would have been killed.

Why do you follow men?
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Who without an ulterior motive would embrace that approach... ignoring just about every sound practice used to determine authenticity?


Prove that they have the "authoritative ability to pronounce what is "of God" and what is not, especially when "God inspires everyone".

"Men choosing what men are to believe"........yeah....w e all need to be part of this, huh? No thank you, I'll prefer to follow what Jesus has expressed.

Why do you follow those men?

Please provide your citation and/or links that will provide me and others with the following:

a. Please state where "God" declared certain men are more authoritative that "Himself" when it comes to "His" words and what texts are "of His inspiration" and which are not.

b. Please post where "God" has declared which books or texts are heresy - according to "Him" and not by one of the humans you think are authoritative.

I'd wager that you will not be able to provide this statement.....or completely divert from answering it altogether.

What say you?
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't even take you seriously. My guess is you ultimately want to justify a sinful lifestyle. Pride, lust, greed... which do you refuse to part with in repentance?
FYI - I don't live any "sinful lifestyle". The fact is, you will have to post some sort of sinful lifestyle that you think I am involved with. Of course you won't because you have no clue on what my life is like, BUT will be arrogant enough to say you do.

I can see why you confuse what is serious and what is not. You expect only certain men have given you the serious details, to feed you your beliefs, and then to ensure you don't falter.

I on the other hand, are showing you why you are incorrect in your belief and how you praise men over "God" and Jesus - even when Jesus explicitly said not to.

You are uninformed.

I hope you change.
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48314 Jun 18, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<<continued to TM>>
<quoted text>
Because after 325 CE - when the "Constantine Bible" was created, the so-called "Catholic Church" decided for you and others, that any and all other documents that were not included or approved to be used - were either destroyed, burned, or confiscated, so the masses would not use them. If you were caught utilizing those "heretic" documents and texts - you would have been killed.
Why do you follow men?
<quoted text>
Prove that they have the "authoritative ability to pronounce what is "of God" and what is not, especially when "God inspires everyone".
"Men choosing what men are to believe"........yeah....w e all need to be part of this, huh? No thank you, I'll prefer to follow what Jesus has expressed.
Why do you follow those men?
Please provide your citation and/or links that will provide me and others with the following:
a. Please state where "God" declared certain men are more authoritative that "Himself" when it comes to "His" words and what texts are "of His inspiration" and which are not.
b. Please post where "God" has declared which books or texts are heresy - according to "Him" and not by one of the humans you think are authoritative.
I'd wager that you will not be able to provide this statement.....or completely divert from answering it altogether.
What say you?
<quoted text>
FYI - I don't live any "sinful lifestyle". The fact is, you will have to post some sort of sinful lifestyle that you think I am involved with. Of course you won't because you have no clue on what my life is like, BUT will be arrogant enough to say you do.
I can see why you confuse what is serious and what is not. You expect only certain men have given you the serious details, to feed you your beliefs, and then to ensure you don't falter.
I on the other hand, are showing you why you are incorrect in your belief and how you praise men over "God" and Jesus - even when Jesus explicitly said not to.
You are uninformed.
I hope you change.
LOL... You actually take your self seriously. You have it all figured out and happen to know all about every Christian out there. The Holy Spirit, which you refer to as an "it" is inside of every Christian that tested God's promise as it is laid out in the Bible.

You obviously didn't and took a different "enlightened" path that you convinced yourself is greater than those who receive God's direct instruction after the new birth. I have to chuckle at how twisted up you made yourself to be in order to end up in that dead end of self trust when God's word has tested true for thousands of years. SMH

All those supposed Christians faking it (me included) for century after century when all we had to do was follow you to know the true Jesus. LOL

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48315 Jun 18, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL... You actually take your self seriously. You have it all figured out and happen to know all about every Christian out there. The Holy Spirit, which you refer to as an "it" is inside of every Christian that tested God's promise as it is laid out in the Bible.
You obviously didn't and took a different "enlightened" path that you convinced yourself is greater than those who receive God's direct instruction after the new birth. I have to chuckle at how twisted up you made yourself to be in order to end up in that dead end of self trust when God's word has tested true for thousands of years. SMH
All those supposed Christians faking it (me included) for century after century when all we had to do was follow you to know the true Jesus. LOL
As for the disparaging comments towards me - I understand your need to express them, you seem to be angered - although you "chuckle".

That is enough to show me that you aren't serious about Jesus, but very serious about the men who defined Jesus.

Maybe you should understand the complete Jesus first, and then compare how men have actually applied his teachings to their life. Yes you included.

Move past the words and understand their meanings.
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48316 Jun 18, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the disparaging comments towards me - I understand your need to express them, you seem to be angered - although you "chuckle".
That is enough to show me that you aren't serious about Jesus, but very serious about the men who defined Jesus.
Maybe you should understand the complete Jesus first, and then compare how men have actually applied his teachings to their life. Yes you included.
Move past the words and understand their meanings.
Sounds really cryptic, but quite short on substance there NASL. Thanks, but I'll stick with what God has validated in my life. You can easily find it in the published Bible... no creepy innuendo required.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48317 Jun 19, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds really cryptic, but quite short on substance there NASL. Thanks, but I'll stick with what God has validated in my life. You can easily find it in the published Bible... no creepy innuendo required.
Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not.

You seem to have this exclusive knowledge, please post it.
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48318 Jun 19, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not.
You seem to have this exclusive knowledge, please post it.
At this point why would I post anything, just so that you can discarded out of hand based on some secret standard that only you hold... that also trumps all conventional wisdom and practice in establishing legitimacy? Tell me, how many souls are you leading astray with your mystic spiritualism, NASL? Hopefully, nobody is blind enough to be led by you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48319 Jun 20, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:

Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not.
You seem to have this exclusive knowledge, please post it.
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
At this point why would I post anything, just so that you can discarded out of hand based on some secret standard that only you hold... that also trumps all conventional wisdom and practice in establishing legitimacy? Tell me, how many souls are you leading astray with your mystic spiritualism, NASL? Hopefully, nobody is blind enough to be led by you.
Diversion.

Face the fact - there isn't any specific text by "God", huh? SO you will go on believing certain men had this authority to speak for "God". I understand, it is hard to be this honest, especially when it defies everything your belief has told you to believe in. It's okay - you are not alone.

"At this point why would I post anything, just so that you can discarded out of hand based on some secret standard that only you hold... that also trumps all conventional wisdom and practice in establishing legitimacy?"
- Actually no. I was expecting you to be civilized, open and honest about your belief, but it appears you can't be when posed with the tougher questions.
- As I asked previously - Please post this "established legitimacy" that you think exists over "God". Like I stated - you seem to have this information, but are now refusing to post it.

"Tell me, how many souls are you leading astray with your mystic spiritualism, NASL? Hopefully, nobody is blind enough to be led by you."
- Each of us have our own choices and paths to make and take, so in fact again, I can't lead anyone. Especially astray, as you would seem to think.
- "mystic spiritualism" - no. It appears you seem to misunderstand Jesus and his message if this is all you can muster up.

Soooo - how 'bout trying to answer the request again.....

"Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not."

You aren't afraid of the answer you will give, are you?
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48320 Jun 20, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not.
You seem to have this exclusive knowledge, please post it.
<quoted text>
Diversion.
Face the fact - there isn't any specific text by "God", huh? SO you will go on believing certain men had this authority to speak for "God". I understand, it is hard to be this honest, especially when it defies everything your belief has told you to believe in. It's okay - you are not alone.
"At this point why would I post anything, just so that you can discarded out of hand based on some secret standard that only you hold... that also trumps all conventional wisdom and practice in establishing legitimacy?"
- Actually no. I was expecting you to be civilized, open and honest about your belief, but it appears you can't be when posed with the tougher questions.
- As I asked previously - Please post this "established legitimacy" that you think exists over "God". Like I stated - you seem to have this information, but are now refusing to post it.
"Tell me, how many souls are you leading astray with your mystic spiritualism, NASL? Hopefully, nobody is blind enough to be led by you."
- Each of us have our own choices and paths to make and take, so in fact again, I can't lead anyone. Especially astray, as you would seem to think.
- "mystic spiritualism" - no. It appears you seem to misunderstand Jesus and his message if this is all you can muster up.
Soooo - how 'bout trying to answer the request again.....
"Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not."
You aren't afraid of the answer you will give, are you?
Perhaps YOU might try some honesty and admit that the Bible has passed the test and rigor of time and examination. Paul's letters were written in the 1st century and widely accepted by believers (who themselves knew the Lord) as true. Anyone could have contested them and called him out as a liar who didn't do any miracles, but we know that didn't happen. In fact, churches sprang up everywhere as Paul's testimony was accompanied by great miracles.

The 4 gospels also all pass the test of scrutiny while written in the 1st century when anyone could have contested their content. To give the same credence to texts that were discovered hundreds of years later and whose content was called into question by believers everywhere is ridiculous. You can pretend all you like that these are as valid as the ones contained in the Bible, but you seem rather silly doing so. Please stop embarrassing yourself...

Millions of Christians over time have testified of God's grace and of his Spirit leading them to know the truth of the written word as being authored by God just as the Bible said they would be able to. You can try to act like that testimony doesn't exist and say that Christians don't have the Holy Spirit, but again you seem pretty silly taking that stance. Perhaps you should be concerned with your own lack of having that God given guidance in you instead of touting your own ability to learn "all of Jesus". There is the way of truth and the way of error. Guess which "way" you're on...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48321 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps YOU might try some honesty and admit that the Bible has passed the test and rigor of time and examination. Paul's letters were written in the 1st century and widely accepted by believers (who themselves knew the Lord) as true. Anyone could have contested them and called him out as a liar who didn't do any miracles, but we know that didn't happen. In fact, churches sprang up everywhere as Paul's testimony was accompanied by great miracles.
The 4 gospels also all pass the test of scrutiny while written in the 1st century when anyone could have contested their content. To give the same credence to texts that were discovered hundreds of years later and whose content was called into question by believers everywhere is ridiculous. You can pretend all you like that these are as valid as the ones contained in the Bible, but you seem rather silly doing so. Please stop embarrassing yourself...
Millions of Christians over time have testified of God's grace and of his Spirit leading them to know the truth of the written word as being authored by God just as the Bible said they would be able to. You can try to act like that testimony doesn't exist and say that Christians don't have the Holy Spirit, but again you seem pretty silly taking that stance. Perhaps you should be concerned with your own lack of having that God given guidance in you instead of touting your own ability to learn "all of Jesus". There is the way of truth and the way of error. Guess which "way" you're on...
Still deciding on your own - to not answer this request. I understand - most so-called "Christians" can't - as they are afraid of the answer they give - if they were honest.

"Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not."

As you have portrayed, honesty is not in your blood or character either.

Figures as much.

BTW - Millions of people claim whatyou have said - through dishonesty towards themselves and others.

Prove that any "God" had given anyone the "Grace" you express.

Prove that any "God" has led anyone to a righteous life.

From your responses to me - clearly shows you aren't righteous at all, but portraying an arrogant lifestyle of hatred toward me and others, because of our beliefs.

You are a fraud.
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48322 Jun 20, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Still deciding on your own - to not answer this request. I understand - most so-called "Christians" can't - as they are afraid of the answer they give - if they were honest.
"Please post where "God" has specifically stated which texts are validated by "Him" and which are not."
As you have portrayed, honesty is not in your blood or character either.
Figures as much.
BTW - Millions of people claim whatyou have said - through dishonesty towards themselves and others.
Prove that any "God" had given anyone the "Grace" you express.
Prove that any "God" has led anyone to a righteous life.
From your responses to me - clearly shows you aren't righteous at all, but portraying an arrogant lifestyle of hatred toward me and others, because of our beliefs.
You are a fraud.
LOL... The fraud plays the victim card. All those dishonest fake Christians persecuting you. Hahaha. Now it appears that you have lost your mind.

You would have me defend what cannot be defended without a standard that is agreed upon by both parties. How childish... How long will you stand there saying, "I'm still waiting..." waiting for me to post something that you can tear down simply by saying that it is not valid proof because you don't accept it. You are not the standard, God is... and every Christian KNOWS that his Holy Spirit is the guide because he dwells inside of you.

Oh, I forgot... they are all lying and just hate you. Hahahaha. Quit embarrassing yourself! People don't hate you just because they call you out for being wacky and discarding every acceptable standard except your own. Did you ever consider that sometimes love is not going along with wacky, but rather exposing it for your own good?

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48323 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you need to stick to the tried and true text of the Bible. There's a reason why the gospel of Thomas wasn't included in the Bible. If you care you can hear this very pramatic commentary on it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hDwy2Xp0eQ0XX
Aside from that, I agree with you as the Bible states that we should die to self and self examine ourselves, but that doesn't begin to address my earlier points about the need for a Savior because of sin. And also understanding the context of what is written, such as when it states that God is the savior of "all" in light that these writings were written to believers not the general populace.
It very much says what happens to those that do not believe or accept God's sacrificial death on their behalf. There IS a certain action that marks those that are saved... they come to the light instead of staying in the darkness doing their normal evil deeds. Christians are marked as repentant people who agree with God on what is good and what is evil, not making their own standard. There is always a division.
In John 3:19-21 it says, "And THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
There is good reason the gospel allegedly written by John was considered heresy by early church fathers, too and was totally rejected. Didn't stop you from quoting it. Man decided the canon; Irenaeus specifically pushed his 'four-formed gospel' concept insisting John be included. Of course, considering the source, one must wonder why it was so important to him that text be included and others excluded, esp since GoJohn demeans Thomas, Mary Magdalene, Judas and others whose sects were growing tremendously at the time. Biblical scholars know it is propaganda, just as early church fathers did when they rejected it as heretical.

I am not Catholic, so do not believe one needs a savior, that a baby needs to be christened or s/he will go to hell if it dies young. I'd appreciate your not assuming the place of my God/ruler/king by telling me what I should or should not read, thank you very much. I have tried the biblical texts rather thoroughly; and there are far too many contradictions for me to accept the book as a whole being called "true." The main thing I do not understand is Paul being so readily followed in his view of Jesus as a sacrifice for all people rather than going by the teachings of Jesus alone. IMO, those are enough.

Those texts were written for the Jews, by Jews, for the most part. John and Paul's alleged writings, some of which have been erroneously attributed to him, of course, took the teachings to the Gentiles, though Jesus never did since his mission was reformation of the oppressive theocratic royal rule of the Jewish Sanhedrin.. Jesus remained a Jew until death; never was he a Christian. The different sects of early followers, i.e. Gnostics, Nazarenes, the followers of those I mentioned above, etc. were more so followers of Jesus than most professing the organized religion of Christianity today, IMHO. Too many early Christians were tortured, killed and genocide committed by the formal church in order to burn their texts because they were a threat to the status quo which put the Pope in both the political and religious leadership role, which meant great power. Thus, the papal states wars followed during and after the crusades for centuries.

God's will be done? Or man's will be done? "On earth as it is in heaven..."

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48324 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you need to stick to the tried and true text of the Bible. There's a reason why the gospel of Thomas wasn't included in the Bible. If you care you can hear this very pramatic commentary on it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hDwy2Xp0eQ0XX
Aside from that, I agree with you as the Bible states that we should die to self and self examine ourselves, but that doesn't begin to address my earlier points about the need for a Savior because of sin. And also understanding the context of what is written, such as when it states that God is the savior of "all" in light that these writings were written to believers not the general populace.
It very much says what happens to those that do not believe or accept God's sacrificial death on their behalf. There IS a certain action that marks those that are saved... they come to the light instead of staying in the darkness doing their normal evil deeds. Christians are marked as repentant people who agree with God on what is good and what is evil, not making their own standard. There is always a division.
In John 3:19-21 it says, "And THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Also, as relates to your assertion of needing a savior, if God wills all men be saved in order to realize his kingdom, and Jesus says the kingdom is inside you and outside you, not in some obscure, abstract place made of materialistic wants of man like gold, pearls, etc, to me this means once one does die to self, then s/he is capable of seeing the kingdom of heaven, the home we have been given on earth which provides all we need to sustain our lives the short time we are here.

Relating that to the parable of the rich man, it isn't hard to see how it would be difficult for those caught up in materialism to see the kingdom within them and outside of them because they are too caught up in wants of more and more things rather than any kind of real spiritual experience.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48325 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL... You actually take your self seriously. You have it all figured out and happen to know all about every Christian out there. The Holy Spirit, which you refer to as an "it" is inside of every Christian that tested God's promise as it is laid out in the Bible.
You obviously didn't and took a different "enlightened" path that you convinced yourself is greater than those who receive God's direct instruction after the new birth. I have to chuckle at how twisted up you made yourself to be in order to end up in that dead end of self trust when God's word has tested true for thousands of years. SMH
All those supposed Christians faking it (me included) for century after century when all we had to do was follow you to know the true Jesus. LOL
"...tested God's promise..."

If you believe the Bible as a whole, why in the world would you test God when it says not to? Just curious.

Also, before any assumptions are made, just because New Age posted the same Thomas verse I did, doesn't mean we are the same person. Things like that tend to get taken the wrong way so wanted to clarify. My beliefs and New Age's coincide and also diverge I'm sure; as typical of most people.

I myself, also follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't consider myself a Christian per se. Deist fits me better since I don't believe in theology and I also take into consideration the many various philosophies and religions that came thousands of years before the birth of Jesus such as Zoroastrian, Confucius, Siddharta Gautema, Socrates, Plato, Sun Tzu, etc.

Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.
Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."

That verse relates to the verse both New Age and myself posted previously.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48326 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps YOU might try some honesty and admit that the Bible has passed the test and rigor of time and examination. Paul's letters were written in the 1st century and widely accepted by believers (who themselves knew the Lord) as true. Anyone could have contested them and called him out as a liar who didn't do any miracles, but we know that didn't happen. In fact, churches sprang up everywhere as Paul's testimony was accompanied by great miracles.
The 4 gospels also all pass the test of scrutiny while written in the 1st century when anyone could have contested their content. To give the same credence to texts that were discovered hundreds of years later and whose content was called into question by believers everywhere is ridiculous. You can pretend all you like that these are as valid as the ones contained in the Bible, but you seem rather silly doing so. Please stop embarrassing yourself...
Millions of Christians over time have testified of God's grace and of his Spirit leading them to know the truth of the written word as being authored by God just as the Bible said they would be able to. You can try to act like that testimony doesn't exist and say that Christians don't have the Holy Spirit, but again you seem pretty silly taking that stance. Perhaps you should be concerned with your own lack of having that God given guidance in you instead of touting your own ability to learn "all of Jesus". There is the way of truth and the way of error. Guess which "way" you're on...
Actually, the Bible as accepted during the Nicene councils during the 4th century CE was put forth by Bishop Athanasius, the most powerful bishop at the time. It was he who buried GoThomas and pushed John about a century and half or so after Iraeneus. At the first ecumenical council, 325 CE as New Age noted, all these things were debated; though Irenaeus had pretty much gotten his way, being very powerful politically during his time. Athanasius basically has told you and all who accepted ONLY the canonized texts what to believe for over 1600 years now. Arius didn't stand a chance to win the debate; his position, though more logical and reasonable, was not politically expedient, esp considering Constantine's want to consolidate power over the whole Roman Empire with the goal to bring all religions, pagan and otherwise, into the fray of one single institutionalized theocracy...something Jesus had railed against in his efforts to reform the harsh Jewish system of religious law. He was quite impressed with the concept of martyrdom, willingness to die for beliefs, as it's easy to kill for beliefs. Christians had impressed him enough with their willingness to give their lives that he changed his military's god from Mithra to Jesus; however, he, himself, other royalty and many military elite still revered Mithra in rituals and ceremonies. The formalized institution of Christianity was for political gain, and nothing more. Now we have fertility symbols for Easter, eggs and rabbits for the goddess Eostre.

I side with Arius, whose concepts are still in practice in the Eastern Orthodox Church. IMO, Arius had it right and in line with Jesus' teachings. Had Jesus ever claimed to be God in the flesh, that would have been blasphemy; the Sanhedrin wouldn't have needed to consult with the Roman prefect in order to execute him. That charge would also make Jesus a horrible Jewish rabbi rather than the great teacher he was and indeed a charge of sedition would be in order inside Jerusalem under Jewish law.

"When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father."

The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

tedna7891

Chicago, IL

#48330 Jun 20, 2014
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
"...tested God's promise..."
If you believe the Bible as a whole, why in the world would you test God when it says not to? Just curious.
Also, before any assumptions are made, just because New Age posted the same Thomas verse I did, doesn't mean we are the same person. Things like that tend to get taken the wrong way so wanted to clarify. My beliefs and New Age's coincide and also diverge I'm sure; as typical of most people.
I myself, also follow the teachings of Jesus, but don't consider myself a Christian per se. Deist fits me better since I don't believe in theology and I also take into consideration the many various philosophies and religions that came thousands of years before the birth of Jesus such as Zoroastrian, Confucius, Siddharta Gautema, Socrates, Plato, Sun Tzu, etc.
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.
Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."
That verse relates to the verse both New Age and myself posted previously.
hi Some1 Else :)

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48331 Jun 20, 2014
Out of curiostiy, TM, why accept GoJohn when GoThomas is older and has many of Jesus' teachings from Thomas? Some are worded slightly differently; others are pretty much word for word depending on the bible version one is using.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48332 Jun 20, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL... The fraud plays the victim card. All those dishonest fake Christians persecuting you. Hahaha. Now it appears that you have lost your mind.
You would have me defend what cannot be defended without a standard that is agreed upon by both parties. How childish... How long will you stand there saying, "I'm still waiting..." waiting for me to post something that you can tear down simply by saying that it is not valid proof because you don't accept it. You are not the standard, God is... and every Christian KNOWS that his Holy Spirit is the guide because he dwells inside of you.
Oh, I forgot... they are all lying and just hate you. Hahahaha. Quit embarrassing yourself! People don't hate you just because they call you out for being wacky and discarding every acceptable standard except your own. Did you ever consider that sometimes love is not going along with wacky, but rather exposing it for your own good?
I don't know about fake Christians and persecution. There is no persecution in the US, on any side, from my perspective, except perhaps when it comes to Muslims and apparently Sikhs because ignorant people think they are Muslims, but I digress. Real persecution is something quite horrible to behold, but I've been to countries where persecution in harsh forms is real.

That being said, I am genuinely interested in your answer to New Age's question myself. Not to put you down because of whichever texts you believe God has validated in comparison to those man has validated for God, but to try to understand your position further. Not all Christians have ever accepted Paul as an apostle, since his word alone is all there is to go on. This has been an on going controversy between the RCC, EOC and protestants for centuries in the case of the latter and almost two millennia in the case of the EOC; the Pauline controversy was at the core of the first schism in the formal Christian Church, RCC.

We have it great in the US; we each have the right to our own beliefs. Differences aren't a bad thing IMO; but they are a positive aspect of human thought in learning beliefs of others; this helps to open us to new views whether we decide to incorporate them into our own beliefs or not. Sharing of views brings unity through finding common ground; because there will always be some common ground somewhere, even when it seems superficially two people disagree on everything.

I wonder a lot why the Protestants took much out of the original canon. Why leave out a lot of the Septuagint? Why take out the Apocrypha, which was originally published even in the first KJVs, in other Protestant bibles until the 1800s when the Dominionist movement started taking off? So many questions, it seems when I find one answer, I just have more questions to ask.

So I respectfully ask, which texts do you consider to have been specifically endorsed by God and which ones you think the church officials should have left in, as well as the ones you consider should have been left out completely? Seems like quite a deeply intriguing conversation to be had, but that's just me.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48333 Jun 20, 2014
tedna7891 wrote:
<quoted text>
hi Some1 Else :)
Hi there, my friend!:)

You incognito, keeping your back to us tonight? lol
Truth Matters

Anderson, IN

#48334 Jun 21, 2014
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know about fake Christians and persecution. T...
...I wonder a lot why the Protestants took much out of the original canon. Why leave out a lot of the Septuagint? Why take out the Apocrypha, which was originally published even in the first KJVs, in other Protestant bibles until the 1800s when the Dominionist movement started taking off? So many questions, it seems when I find one answer, I just have more questions to ask.
So I respectfully ask, which texts do you consider to have been specifically endorsed by God and which ones you think the church officials should have left in, as well as the ones you consider should have been left out completely? Seems like quite a deeply intriguing conversation to be had, but that's just me.
When I was first witnessed to with the gospel of Christ, I was shown the parts of the Bible pertaining to sin, Jesus' death/sacrifice, resurrection, salvation by belief in him, and of the receiving of the Holy Spirit, and his promised return and heaven/judgement. I knew in my conscience and my life that I was a hopeless sinner. I decided that day that I would "test" this promise of God (of salvation to those that believe and his Holy Spirit) or rather I chose to believe in someone I had at one time decided didn't exist.

That day, my life changed. That choice to take God at his word, proved true. I could go into how all those changes that have manifested themselves in my life since then, but that really doesn't play into this post except to say that they were too numerous to even begin to write about here and from past experience they mean nothing to those that haven't experience that power of God in their lives.

I knew that I had become a new creature, an adopted son of God, who now related to me as a Father. I had been reconciled just as the Bible had said that I would be. God was active in my life and was in me and along side me in the form of his Spirit and he answered my prayers in so many amazing ways that at times I was dumbfounded at times.

I read the Bible many times over and saw his hand in it everywhere and he related it to my life in many deep ways teaching me about myself... pruning me and continuing to change me. At the same time reinforcing the truth that he had revealed to me the day I knelt down in repentance to him. I saw how he was in my life prior to that day as my life was falling apart only to lead me to him as a broken young man... humbled by my experiences, and ready to admit the truth about myself.

Now, after all these years, I know my Lord. I have the understanding that he has given me and know how to recognize him in his word. It's that simple. When I read these other texts, I know through God's Spirit whether these contain God's words or not, just as the early Christians did. It is God''s plumb line in all of us that were chosen by him. It's not about which texts were discovered where and when, but that is what unbelievers will want to argue about.

Those that know God, know what is true about him. They know each other and are instantly connected in their common experience of God's grace, salvation, power and ever presence in their lives. They know that they have been set aside from the rest and are humbled. I have seen how the Bible is a masterful tapestry spun over thousands of years by the greatest artist that there can ever be. To him be the glory!

So to argue with you about Paul and John and bishops of the councils that decided this over that, is essentially irrelevant. The "proof" of what is valid or not is in the test... and the greatest test is... did you receive his promised Holy Spirit? The Spirit is given as a guarantee for the coming fulfillment of the hope that is in me. And that is, my ultimate redemption, that is coming, and my acceptance into the household of God as an adopted son and fellow heir because of what Jesus did for me. Simple as that...

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