uIDIOTMAKEWORLDP EACE

United States

#48282 Aug 25, 2013
Judicial Watch, September 28, 2001
Gore Vidal, Dreaming War, p34
"
George H. W. Bush, the father of President Bush, works for the bin Laden family business in Saudi Arabia through the Carlyle Group, an international consulting firm.
Kaitlin the Donkey Lover

Jonesville, SC

#48283 Aug 27, 2013
I rode donkey long time!
Gut Stomper

Greenville, SC

#48284 Oct 27, 2013
In need of a job? Try resumebucket.
While you are at it, put all your personal info on there also.
Thanks, sucker.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48286 Apr 22, 2014
p-o-p quiz wrote:
I wasn't around in '07. So this is the infamous thread that still evokes a visceral reaction in a certain poster? What a weirdo.
I think more than one remember this thread in such a way. For a while, there seemed to be a love/hate relationship going on with a few posters. Of course, no one ever forced them to come to CLE. But you'd think someone held a gun to their head and forced them to post here. Still in chains, yet don't realize it...
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48289 May 26, 2014
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
I think more than one remember this thread in such a way. For a while, there seemed to be a love/hate relationship going on with a few posters. Of course, no one ever forced them to come to CLE. But you'd think someone held a gun to their head and forced them to post here. Still in chains, yet don't realize it...
Or maybe it has to do with how Beijing Jerry Slunder twisted the Bible to deceive others that illicited such a strong response. Just saying...

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48290 May 28, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Or maybe it has to do with how Beijing Jerry Slunder twisted the Bible to deceive others that illicited such a strong response. Just saying...
Well, if Christians believe God's will be done, and God wills all people be saved as the text says, that's pretty clear cut. Unless one doesn't really believe God's will holds any power. Just saying....
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48291 May 30, 2014
God gave man free will to choose. He DOES desire that all men be saved, but he won't force anyone to accept the truth about themselves (sinner in need of a savior) or about himself (deserves to be worshiped for his sacrifice and offer of free salvation and eternal life).

Not that he he demands it, but the truth IS the truth and a perfect creator SHOULD be worshiped by his wayward creation that has a way to escape judgement by the self sacrifice of their creator.

The bible says that "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

Do you see how a man who admits admits his imperfection in relation to God's perfect way, and realizes his need for a savior is accepting and loving the truth? Those who don't are simply lying, making a pretense or some other falsehood to appear righteous based on their own merit.

Our conscience will be our witness... either for us or against us on the day when all men will be judged. We all know we fail to meet the perfect standard through our conscience. So which will you choose, truth or falsehood? Belief in saving by God's sacrifice received through faith or pretense of self righteousness?

As it says in Romans 4:20-25 about Abraham:
20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23 But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48292 Jun 3, 2014
OK, but it's either man's will be done or God's will be done. It's can't be both ways.

"Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

I'll go with God's will being done and let it be.
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48293 Jun 3, 2014
When taken in context you will see that this particular example was preceded by "thy kingdom come" (which precedes his will being done). So if you are going to speak to God's will being done, you need to add the context of the WHEN to see the timing of his will being done. This would appear to be a future event and not applicable to EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE, but rather conditional situation.

It seems that you look at the written word from a single perspective, while ignoring other contrary views... taking English words and coming to conclusions when the original was in Aramaic or Greek.

For instance, when you use the English word "all" in 1 Timothy 2:4 of "all men to be saved" you need to see HOW the Greek word "pas" is used. If I say all children left the classroom, it doesn't speak to ALL children EVERYWHERE, but only to those that were in the classroom to begin with.

You would have to ignore the many other scriptures, including all of Jesus' warnings about men being judged and going to hell, to come to the conclusion that ALL men will be saved. Perhaps you should broaden your view about what you are reading and seek the true meaning/intent of what was written.

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#48295 Jun 8, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
When taken in context you will see that this particular example was preceded by "thy kingdom come" (which precedes his will being done). So if you are going to speak to God's will being done, you need to add the context of the WHEN to see the timing of his will being done. This would appear to be a future event and not applicable to EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE, but rather conditional situation.
It seems that you look at the written word from a single perspective, while ignoring other contrary views... taking English words and coming to conclusions when the original was in Aramaic or Greek.
For instance, when you use the English word "all" in 1 Timothy 2:4 of "all men to be saved" you need to see HOW the Greek word "pas" is used. If I say all children left the classroom, it doesn't speak to ALL children EVERYWHERE, but only to those that were in the classroom to begin with.
You would have to ignore the many other scriptures, including all of Jesus' warnings about men being judged and going to hell, to come to the conclusion that ALL men will be saved. Perhaps you should broaden your view about what you are reading and seek the true meaning/intent of what was written.
To think there is a timing put on the earth being part of God's kingdom is not something I personally believe in.

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you,'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you,'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

So "Thy Kingdom come" means to me that one is opening him/herself to God in order to know thyself. Once one knows him/herself, and accepts oneself, faults and all, then one can begin the process of changing for the better. As Jesus relayed, one must die to self, meaning once one knows him/herself, then s/he should be capable of accepting that others also have faults as all humans do; then rather than only seeing that splinter in another's eye, and since one has seen the timber in one's own eye, one works to become non-judgmental as to comparing one's own sins with those of others, leaving that part completely up to God.

Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48296 Jun 9, 2014
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
To think there is a timing put on the earth being part of God's kingdom is not something I personally believe in.
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you,'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you,'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
So "Thy Kingdom come" means to me that one is opening him/herself to God in order to know thyself. Once one knows him/herself, and accepts oneself, faults and all, then one can begin the process of changing for the better. As Jesus relayed, one must die to self, meaning once one knows him/herself, then s/he should be capable of accepting that others also have faults as all humans do; then rather than only seeing that splinter in another's eye, and since one has seen the timber in one's own eye, one works to become non-judgmental as to comparing one's own sins with those of others, leaving that part completely up to God.
I think you need to stick to the tried and true text of the Bible. There's a reason why the gospel of Thomas wasn't included in the Bible. If you care you can hear this very pramatic commentary on it here.



Aside from that, I agree with you as the Bible states that we should die to self and self examine ourselves, but that doesn't begin to address my earlier points about the need for a Savior because of sin. And also understanding the context of what is written, such as when it states that God is the savior of "all" in light that these writings were written to believers not the general populace.

It very much says what happens to those that do not believe or accept God's sacrificial death on their behalf. There IS a certain action that marks those that are saved... they come to the light instead of staying in the darkness doing their normal evil deeds. Christians are marked as repentant people who agree with God on what is good and what is evil, not making their own standard. There is always a division.

In John 3:19-21 it says, "And THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Since: Nov 12

Sacramento, CA

#48297 Jun 9, 2014
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/evolution/... We are all Eels according to science. Talk about fairy tales that intelligent life just starting evolving out of nowhere from an eel. LMAO
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48298 Jun 9, 2014
RiccardoFire wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sci ence/evolution/9123601/Eel-lik e-creature-identified-as-earli est-human-ancestor.html We are all Eels according to science. Talk about fairy tales that intelligent life just starting evolving out of nowhere from an eel. LMAO
Humans have to search out their origins because God made it so. "...he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecc 3:11b

However, even though in our consciousness we know that there must be a beginning, and that nothing can come from nothing, we establish science as the standard... which cannot account for the supernatural.

And so we resort to speculation... breaking all the scientific rules of observation, testable, reproducible, etc. to establish evolution as fact. So, yes, you are right in laughing at the pompous stupidity of man, who refuses to bow down to his creator and seek the wisdom that he offers.

Never has it been more accurate a description as it is today in our emerging global society whereby we seek to eradicate God from our culture. Yet Jesus reigns and his truth will prevail.

1 Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
Psalm 2:1-6

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48300 Jun 12, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
God gave man free will to choose. He DOES desire that all men be saved, but he won't force anyone to accept the truth about themselves (sinner in need of a savior) or about himself (deserves to be worshiped for his sacrifice and offer of free salvation and eternal life).
Not that he he demands it, but the truth IS the truth and a perfect creator SHOULD be worshiped by his wayward creation that has a way to escape judgement by the self sacrifice of their creator.
The bible says that "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
Do you see how a man who admits admits his imperfection in relation to God's perfect way, and realizes his need for a savior is accepting and loving the truth? Those who don't are simply lying, making a pretense or some other falsehood to appear righteous based on their own merit.
Our conscience will be our witness... either for us or against us on the day when all men will be judged. We all know we fail to meet the perfect standard through our conscience. So which will you choose, truth or falsehood? Belief in saving by God's sacrifice received through faith or pretense of self righteousness?
As it says in Romans 4:20-25 about Abraham:
20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23 But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Please post Jesus' exact same sentiment as "Paul".
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48301 Jun 13, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Please post Jesus' exact same sentiment as "Paul".
Perhaps you would like to expound on your request. It seems rather oblique to me. Or better yet, why not post your own point of view and apply it to something I said specifically?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48302 Jun 13, 2014
Truth Matters wrote:
God gave man free will to choose. He DOES desire that all men be saved, but he won't force anyone to accept the truth about themselves (sinner in need of a savior) or about himself (deserves to be worshiped for his sacrifice and offer of free salvation and eternal life).
Not that he he demands it, but the truth IS the truth and a perfect creator SHOULD be worshiped by his wayward creation that has a way to escape judgement by the self sacrifice of their creator.
The bible says that "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
Do you see how a man who admits admits his imperfection in relation to God's perfect way, and realizes his need for a savior is accepting and loving the truth? Those who don't are simply lying, making a pretense or some other falsehood to appear righteous based on their own merit.
Our conscience will be our witness... either for us or against us on the day when all men will be judged. We all know we fail to meet the perfect standard through our conscience. So which will you choose, truth or falsehood? Belief in saving by God's sacrifice received through faith or pretense of self righteousness?
As it says in Romans 4:20-25 about Abraham:
20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23 But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

**********

New Age wrote:
Please post Jesus' exact same sentiment as "Paul".

**********
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you would like to expound on your request. It seems rather oblique to me. Or better yet, why not post your own point of view and apply it to something I said specifically?
Alright - I can help explain my post.

You originally posted "Paul's" statement from Romans 4:20-25, but we already know "Paul" had his own gospel based upon what he knew of Jesus, but was never personally taught by Jesus......and yet you seem to think "Paul's" words have more bearing than that of Jesus.

I asked you to post something by Jesus that reflects what "Paul" said.

Can you?

As for my opinion on what you posted - I think you aren't a "Christian", if you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus was.

Do you? Why not? Why?

So once again - where does Jesus reflect upon what "Paul" is trying to express?

Best regards,
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48303 Jun 13, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Truth Matters wrote:
God gave man free will to choose...

As it says in Romans 4:20-25 about Abraham:
20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23 But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
**********
New Age wrote:
Please post Jesus' exact same sentiment as "Paul".
**********
<quoted text>
Alright - I can help explain my post.
You originally posted "Paul's" statement from Romans 4:20-25, but we already know "Paul" had his own gospel based upon what he knew of Jesus, but was never personally taught by Jesus......and yet you seem to think "Paul's" words have more bearing than that of Jesus.
I asked you to post something by Jesus that reflects what "Paul" said.
Can you?
As for my opinion on what you posted - I think you aren't a "Christian", if you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus was.
Do you? Why not? Why?
So once again - where does Jesus reflect upon what "Paul" is trying to express?
Best regards,
So, to summarize...

Paul recounts Genesis 15:6 of how Abraham believing in God's promise equates to righteousness for him.

Paul then writes that the same righteousness equation applies to those who "believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord" and also that "Jesus was delivered up for our tresspasses and raised for our justification."

And you would like me to point to where Jesus "reflected" that because you believe that by me posting something Paul wrote, I therefore must believe that he was more enlightened than Jesus... and therefore not a Christian.

Jesus said in John 16:7-15
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Do you think Paul received the Holy Spirit? If so, what authority do you think he spoke with?

If not, what power do you think enabled him to do the many miracles that accompanied his ministry?

John 3:31-35 says:
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

What you believe about Jesus will determine what you believe about Paul. The other believers had no issue with him because they knew his works.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48304 Jun 16, 2014
New Age wrote: Please post Jesus' exact same sentiment as "Paul"

New Age wrote:
Alright - I can help explain my post. You originally posted "Paul's" statement from Romans 4:20-25, but we already know "Paul" had his own gospel based upon what he knew of Jesus, but was never personally taught by Jesus......and yet you seem to think "Paul's" words have more bearing than that of Jesus. I asked you to post something by Jesus that reflects what "Paul" said. Can you? As for my opinion on what you posted - I think you aren't a "Christian ", if you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus was. Do you? Why not? Why? So once again - where does Jesus reflect upon what "Paul" is trying to express? Best regards,
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
So, to summarize...
Paul recounts Genesis 15:6 of how Abraham believing in God's promise equates to righteousness for him.
Paul then writes that the same righteousness equation applies to those who "believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord" and also that "Jesus was delivered up for our tresspasses and raised for our justification."
And you would like me to point to where Jesus "reflected" that because you believe that by me posting something Paul wrote, I therefore must believe that he was more enlightened than Jesus... and therefore not a Christian.
Jesus said in John 16:7-15
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
"Paul" sure like to pat himself on the back - quite often. First through claiming himself as an Apostle of Jesus', and now - claiming to be righteous in his own eyes.

Sheez.....do you really think this is the proper way to be?

Although "Paul" did compare Abraham's faithfulness, he only spoke of this perception of "God" as a Jew. Are you a Jew?

If you are, then I can understand your need to use the OT. But since the NT superseded the OT through its covenant for so-called "Christians", and you still regarding the OT as part of your belief, then you have missed what Jesus spoke of and are not a "Christian".
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think Paul received the Holy Spirit? If so, what authority do you think he spoke with?
No I don't.

Has anyone rcvd the HS? Can you prove this to be the case? I only believe that people make a choice from within - Self - to choose to do or believe the things you do.

The HS has nothing to do with it....it's all a matter of personal choice.

I for one, don't believe you have rcvd the HS either.
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>If not, what power do you think enabled him to do the many miracles that accompanied his ministry?
What miracles did this 3rd generation disciple do?

Do you have multiple contemporaries that speak of these "miracles"? Or do you just have what Luke, another 3rd generation disciple claims?

Why do you believe men over what Jesus says:
"to know yourself is to know the kingdom of God."

Are you afraid to know yourself completely?

<<continued>>

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#48305 Jun 16, 2014
<<continued to Truth Matters>>
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>John 3:31-35 says:
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Ya know TM - we can both post what Jesus stated.....and we both could be right....but in truth....we really don't know what Jesus actually stated, except through the words of second hand sources.

Why do you believe John over Thomas or Philip or Mary or other "Paul" documents that aren't in the Bible?

Sounds to me, you would rather believe men telling you what Jesus stated, then to accept what Jesus stated COMPLETELY.
Truth Matters wrote:
<quoted text>What you believe about Jesus will determine what you believe about Paul. The other believers had no issue with him because they knew his works.
....and yet you will accept "Paul" - a 3rd generation disciple over "Thomas" and "Philip" - who were 1st generation Apostles.

You sound confused.
Truth Matters

Sicklerville, NJ

#48306 Jun 16, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<<continued to Truth Matters>>
<quoted text>
Ya know TM - we can both post what Jesus stated.....and we both could be right....but in truth....we really don't know what Jesus actually stated, except through the words of second hand sources.
Why do you believe John over Thomas or Philip or Mary or other "Paul" documents that aren't in the Bible?
Sounds to me, you would rather believe men telling you what Jesus stated, then to accept what Jesus stated COMPLETELY.
<quoted text>
....and yet you will accept "Paul" - a 3rd generation disciple over "Thomas" and "Philip" - who were 1st generation Apostles.
You sound confused.
It appears to me that you have certain biases that I will not try to dissuade you from, but rather I shall endeavor to explain my position. Feel free to take it or leave it.

IMO, you are the one that is confused. You seem to have no standard on which to base your determination of which of the ancient texts are reliable or not.

Yes, at one time I put my faith in men that they had met and determined which of these texts were valid based on their recent history and their adherence to the teachings of the mainstream church. They omitted the ones that were not in line with what was clearly accepted as true by all that they knew.

However, that was what it took for me to come before God as a humbled and repentant sinner. When I received the Holy Spirit, I then understood for myself why these texts where in alignment and agreement. It was because the Holy Spirit would tie it all together time and time again with the events in my life in a supernatural way as God himself dealt with me in my life.

I don't need someone to validate Paul, Peter, John, or any other writer in the Bible because I can see God's hand in the writings across the centuries. I don't know this through my own intelligence or prowess, it is by revelation.

If you wish to try to sell self-enlightenment to others by bashing Paul and espousing Thomas or any others that have zero credibility, go right ahead. As Jesus says in John 6:44-45, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets,‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.

The chosen will not be snared in false teachings. And when you come to Jesus, you will receive his promised Holy Spirit inside you... whether YOU believe it or not. I'm guessing you never did. I fear for you on the day you stand before the throne of a holy God relying on your own righteousness. That's not where I would want to be. Good luck with that.

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