Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32898 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but your not listening in what I am saying concerning water baptism it is mention literal water at times in the Bible. However, many times when speaking about baptism there is no water involved at all as the example I gave you in Act. 1:5 this baptism is what God does that truly washes us by the Holy Spirit this is the baptism everyone needs in order to be saved and this is when a person becomes saved by the word and the Spirit these are the only true worshipers of God fact! Read John 4:23 I have quoted this verse enough for you but I don't think your reading it or God has not given you the gift of repentance to acknowledge this true fact so I will quote it for your sake.

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT and in TRUTH: for the Father SEEKETH such to worship Him." John 4:23

Saban, this verse comes right after Jesus taking about being [born again] in the chapter just before this in, John 3:1-6.

1- God is the only one that can SEEK out those who He will to worship Him in Spirit and in truth this is how one is born again by the word [the truth] and the Spirit period!

2- Those people the elect of God are the only ones that can worship the Father because He is the one not us He alone must be the one to SEEK His people out so that they can worship Him in Spirit and in truth. He came to SEEK and to save His people from their sins.

3- It is impossible to worship the true and living God by any act we do when WE SEEK out being water dunked, accepting Jesus, being a good member of the church, trust in your churches teaching, making an alter call this is man trying to do something to be accepted by God but God tells us no! He must do the seeking, He must do the saving, He must get all the glory in His work.

4- Unsaved man believe they can please GD BY WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO GET THEMSELVES SAVED AND IT WILL NOT WASH IF GOD DOES NOT SEEK US OUT NO MATTER HOW HARD WE TRY IT WAS DONE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

5- This is why the do it your self people hate verses like, John 3:27, Eph. 1:4-6, Romans 9:11-26. John 15:16, Romans 3:10-12, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, I just quoted in John 4:23. Now they may not say they hate those words of God maybe some will be so bold to even say this is all [hogwash] God forbid!

This is why we are to pray for these dear souls that they maybe set free from the snares of Satan, and that God may have mercy so they will give God all the glory great things He has done this is why you do not hear them say this. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Every place I show you an example of baptism you claim there was no water involved even though you cannot prove that. Even in the case with Philip and the Eunuch where there was much water, you ignore. I give you the proper definition of baptism (immersion) and you ignore it as if you'd never seen it and you tell me Jesus washed Peter's feet. He did wash Peter's feet. But where does it say this was Peter's baptism?
In one way you're correct, if done for the wrong reasons, baptism is just getting wet. The scriptures tell us what baptism into Christ is and what it's for in Acts 2:38. You cannot make it say something else. You are ignoring that scripture and the meaning of the word baptism. Peter tells them they must repent, but you falsely teach Jesus repents whom he predestined and we have nothing to do with it.
You are saying falsehoods in this post about me and you are a false teacher. Hopefully, since you do not approach the scriptures with a sincere heart seeking truth and since you have chosen not to recognize these basic facts and instead invent your own doctrine, others will recognize your teaching for what it is.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32899 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but I have told you in the past post that it will be impossible for you to believe 2 Tim. 2:25-26 and verses like John 3:27, Eph. 1:4-6, Romans 3:10-12, John 4:23 and many other verses.

I have said you will not believe those verses in 2 Tim. 2:25-26 where it states that God must grant one repentance in acknowledging the truth. All that you have done below here is prove what I said before was dead on spot on it was impossible for you to bow down to God's authority unless God grants you true repentance to acknowledge the truth in 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

Now what I also said if this does not happen to you the next verse is a stark warning God is telling us if He does not grant you repentance to see this truth then Satan comes in and brings you this snare saying Saban, you can repent on your own you don't need God to do this why this is all [hogwash!] Saban, in meekness I am instructing you according to the word not to oppose this truth because Satan will take you captive at his will. Now I know you will not even know this is taken place this is how subtle Satan is, he wants us to believe this do it your self have it your way self help gospel of [I WILL] Saban, don't you see this is what made Satan fall when he said [I WILL] five times in Isa. 14. However, what [I WILL] will you believe? The [I WILL] in Ezek. 36:25-30 and Romans 9:16-24, this is the [I WILL] of God.

Now my will Saban for you is nothing but the very highest good for you and that is, that God will grant you repentance to acknowledge the truth so you will not be held captive by Satan at his will, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. You see Saban, love hopeth in all things, 1 Cor. 13, and I truly hope the very best for you truly I do. However, Saban, as your void of the word below here I would implore you to cling just to the word of God as those verses I have shared with you because they come from God not from me. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have to repent of our fathers sins or of Adam's sin. We repent of OUR sin. This takes a knowledge of OUR sin and a knowledge of how it impacts our soul.
You've quoted lots of verses that you've used hundreds of times to try to state your case but you absolutely ignored the verses I presented to you in that post you just replied to.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32900 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

Your question:

Where do I refer in the word [water dunking?]

I did not quote any verse, because it is not in the word. I never quoted any verse for this because I am going by your own method of how you become baptized do you get sprinkled? Or do you go into some water and get dunked into the water? What is your mode of baptism? I believe your the one who kept on saying you have to immerse your self same as dunking your self in water this is your mode of water baptism is it not?

I said this does not save one we must be [WASHED] by the Lord and this happens when he baptizes us with His Spirit, Acts. 1:5. This is the baptism one needs to be saved by and this is all the work that God does so we can believe on Him as John 6:29, declares. Thank you and can we take our next question please. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep using the term "water dunking". Where do you find this in the scriptures?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32901 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

This is fine if you want to believe this. As I said before, I cannot make one see the truth God must do this work. However, there is one MAJOR problem with this conclusion Saban, do you know what it is? yes, you can see below your void of any explanation from the word of God in why I am wrong here.

Saban, as anyone can see I shared with you verse after verse I have quoted verses for you and your void of any proof where I am wrong. Now anyone can come on this site and say Gary, your wrong!

Saban, what does this mean if they have no biblical authority to prove their points all there doing is acting out and getting up-set because they cannot prove just from the word where I am wrong so they rather go on in their delusion thinking that they are right because their church does not teach this way.

Saban, this is what your church won't tell you. The heading of this site. As I said before, I hope nothing but the very best for you Saban and your in my prayers. You see many who do not want to bow to the word of God they show it because they cannot hope and pray for the very highest good for one that they oppose when they come out of true concern to instruct them in just the word.

Now they may say they want nothing but the best for me but they are not saying this out of truth but out of quilt because the proof is, they never said this from the very start. The only time they will truly mean that they want the highest good for one and that they are praying for one is when God reveals truth to them and gives them repentance to acknowledge the truth as in, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, these words did not come from me so don't get mad at me they come from God you have to deal with those verses to God all that I am doing is faithfully declaring the word of God. The fact is, a man cannot receive NOTHING unless it is given to him by heaven and God is in heaven and He alone is the King, John 3:27. Thank you and may we take our next question please. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
Gary,
You've drawn conclusions on verses that were never intended. You're out if context. Twisted. You ignore many of the points I make because you care more about adhering to YOUR doctrine than to truth.
You pay absolutely no attention to timing and the things that are changing and the audiences being spoken to. You have just pulled out the few things you can twist together to agree with what you think. You ignore the rest. And talk people into submission, rarely ever giving a straight answer to rather simple questions.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32902 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Dr:

Thank you for sharing the [two baptisms] also, thank you for sharing those verses. Again, thank you. Gary
Dr shrink wrote:
Simple parabolic language of jesus about 2 baptisms
1/water
2/Holy Spirit
Mat 13;47-48
"Again Kingdom of heaven is like net,that you cast into the sea(water) and gathered every kind(water baptised,and living from this water and after)
48/
Which,when it was full they drew the shore,and sat down
AND GATHERED THE GOOD INTO VESSELS (of Kingdom Gods Holy Spirit baptism)
but cast the bad away( after water immersion and not saved worthless to be taken as good to the Vessels and be in Kingdom of God
THOSE PASSAGES CLEARLY POINT ABOUT UNSAVED AND SAVED,ABOUT WATER BAPTISM FOR UNSAVED,AND ELECTION OF GOOD ONES RECEIVING BAPTISM IN FIRE AND HOLY SPIRIT BY GATHERING THEM AS GOOD INTO VESSELS FIT KINGDOM OF GOD
Those who understand this parable,let them to understand,
those who are blind,unsaved earthly will not understand this parable;
sea,fishers, good vessels and bad casted away after take them from sea( symbolize water baptism and mankind after this happen still seperation(choice ,election) to find good ones who fit Kingdom of God) EPH 1;2-12.2;8-9
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32903 Aug 11, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Dr:
Thank you for sharing the [two baptisms] also, thank you for sharing those verses. Again, thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
There were more baptisms than that. But, Paul confirmed there is now only ONE. It's not something that happens to people it is something people choose to submit to.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32904 Aug 11, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
This is fine if you want to believe this. As I said before, I cannot make one see the truth God must do this work. However, there is one MAJOR problem with this conclusion Saban, do you know what it is? yes, you can see below your void of any explanation from the word of God in why I am wrong here.
Saban, as anyone can see I shared with you verse after verse I have quoted verses for you and your void of any proof where I am wrong. Now anyone can come on this site and say Gary, your wrong!
Saban, what does this mean if they have no biblical authority to prove their points all there doing is acting out and getting up-set because they cannot prove just from the word where I am wrong so they rather go on in their delusion thinking that they are right because their church does not teach this way.
Saban, this is what your church won't tell you. The heading of this site. As I said before, I hope nothing but the very best for you Saban and your in my prayers. You see many who do not want to bow to the word of God they show it because they cannot hope and pray for the very highest good for one that they oppose when they come out of true concern to instruct them in just the word.
Now they may say they want nothing but the best for me but they are not saying this out of truth but out of quilt because the proof is, they never said this from the very start. The only time they will truly mean that they want the highest good for one and that they are praying for one is when God reveals truth to them and gives them repentance to acknowledge the truth as in, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, these words did not come from me so don't get mad at me they come from God you have to deal with those verses to God all that I am doing is faithfully declaring the word of God. The fact is, a man cannot receive NOTHING unless it is given to him by heaven and God is in heaven and He alone is the King, John 3:27. Thank you and may we take our next question please. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
You've said you received the baptism the Apostles received.

You've said the words of Jesus intended for the Apostles in Acts 1 we're intended for you too.

As such this next verse from Paul applies to you:

12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

This is you to a "T", Gary!
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32905 Aug 11, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
Your question:
Where do I refer in the word [water dunking?]
I did not quote any verse, because it is not in the word. I never quoted any verse for this because I am going by your own method of how you become baptized do you get sprinkled? Or do you go into some water and get dunked into the water? What is your mode of baptism? I believe your the one who kept on saying you have to immerse your self same as dunking your self in water this is your mode of water baptism is it not?
I said this does not save one we must be [WASHED] by the Lord and this happens when he baptizes us with His Spirit, Acts. 1:5. This is the baptism one needs to be saved by and this is all the work that God does so we can believe on Him as John 6:29, declares. Thank you and can we take our next question please. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
Obviously you don't understand baptism into Christ for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). You don't baptize "your self".

You do continue to use the term "water dunking" over and over and over. Yet now you admit it's not in the scriptures.

My 4 questions are as follows:

Was Jesus "water dunking"?

Was Jesus "water dunked" or did Jesus "water dunk" himself?

Was Philip "water dunking" the Eunuch?

Did Philip and the Eunuch meet after the Apostles had been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32906 Aug 11, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
You may think when God makes us to repent by the gift of repentance this is all [hogwash] according to your belief but is it [hogwash] when God tells us this truth your denying? Yes, God commands mankind to repent but most do not why? Because the Bible tells us that many are called but few are chosen. This is a biblical fact that many hear God commanding us to repent because in the beginning we came from Adam who was created in the image of God so God holds us accountable and He can give the command out to repent because God gave all mankind a conscience and we can harden this conscience as, 1 Tim. 4:1-3, declares this is why the Scribes and the Pharisses could not stone the woman taken in the very act of adultery because of their conscience the word declares. So God holds us responsible for our sin and He can command us to repent.
However, when God tells us that He alone must grant one repentance to acknowledge the truth Saban this is not [hogwash] as you claim your mocking God's word when you say this shame on you! Listen to the word of God if you can? I say this to you out of concern and to instruct you in meekness not to oppose the truth Saban.
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF GOD PERHAPS WILL GIVE THEM REPENTANCE TO THE ACKNOWLEDGING OF THE TRUTH." 2 Timothy 2:25
Saban, it is God alone that must give one true repentance to even acknowledge the truth of His salvation work. Now Saban if you still believe what God is saying here is just some [hogwash] this is what the next verse warns us if one refuses this truth.
"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by Satan AT HIS WILL." Verse 26
"John answered and said, A man can RECEIVE NOTHING, except it be given to him from heaven." John 3:27
Saban, this is why I can say it is impossible for you to believe this truth unless God grants you repentance to acknowledge His truth that can set the captives free. saban, if they don't see it the word declares they will be held captive by Satan at his will. Many are snared by Satan's do it your self have it your way self help gospel built on the pride of man. Satan loves taken people snare like this because this is what made him fall his pride. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
"Despite the fact that our sin-filled world has exerted such a deleterious influence on human beings so that “all have sinned”(Romans 3:23), the Bible holds us accountable for our sinful actions (Romans 1:18-20). This fact, coupled with the universal call of Christ to “come” to Him (cf. Matthew 11:28-30; Revelation 22:17), indicates the biblical position of humans’ freedom to choose. Hence, though it is an admittedly difficult task, any predestinarian theory must balance delicately the concepts of God’s sovereignty and humankind’s freedom of choice. Any approach that tends to exalt one of these features above the other will result in a scripturally skewed position."
- Garry Brantley

http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/B...

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#32909 Aug 11, 2013
top of tha morning to ya

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#32911 Aug 11, 2013
Location hidden
1 min ago
top of tha morning to ya
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32913 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

Yes, this is correct. However, there is only [ONE] baptism that truly saves and it is not the one we chose it is the one the Lord choses this is why Jesus said: You have not chosen me but I have chosen you,,," John 15:16

The Baptism that is required for salvation is when God saves us by His Spirit this is the washing that one truly needs n order to be saved, Acts 1:5, John 4. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
There were more baptisms than that. But, Paul confirmed there is now only ONE. It's not something that happens to people it is something people choose to submit to.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32914 Aug 11, 2013
Hello:

Welcome to this site and top of the evening over here. Do you have a question? Thank you for visiting this site. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Hello Man wrote:
Location hidden
1 min ago
top of tha morning to ya
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32915 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

As I said before the water baptism is a sign that shows us hopefully one is truly repentant but the fact is, without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. Saban, your trust is in the out-ward sign not in the substance your counting on the work that you have done when you were dunked into some water that is it Saban and you just cannot see this fact right now because God must grant you repentance to see this truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26 which you say this is just all [hogwash] this is what God is saying Saban,it is not speaking here of some literal water it is the living water that Jesus was speaking about in John 4 to the woman at the well this is the washing that only Jesus can do as He did with the washing of Peter we can see Peter could not clean him self as you believe by you going dunking into some pool of water it just will not wash. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you don't understand baptism into Christ for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). You don't baptize "your self".
You do continue to use the term "water dunking" over and over and over. Yet now you admit it's not in the scriptures.
My 4 questions are as follows:
Was Jesus "water dunking"?
Was Jesus "water dunked" or did Jesus "water dunk" himself?
Was Philip "water dunking" the Eunuch?
Did Philip and the Eunuch meet after the Apostles had been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32916 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

I can understand why you would think like this although your spirit saddens me Saban not because you think this of me but because you show hate for the true gospel of grace alone this truly saddens me.

Saban, they mocked, scoffed, and said that Jesus was from the devil also and these were the religious elite of His day Saban, things has not changed Jesus warned the true believer if they have done it to me they will do it to you also for the servant is not greater than his master. The Lord tells us to rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven. So, if you do not mind I need a second to jump for joy as Matthew 5:1-7 declares. Thank you and can we take our next question please. Gary 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You've said you received the baptism the Apostles received.
You've said the words of Jesus intended for the Apostles in Acts 1 we're intended for you too.
As such this next verse from Paul applies to you:
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
This is you to a "T", Gary!
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32917 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Dr:

That was very kind of you. I hope nothing but the very best for Saban and my prayers are with him and all here. Again, thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
saban
i strat see you as believer searching for biblical answers,
just pray and look Gary posts, they have spiritual senses
all of those unsaved mockers always leave after little while,
YOU STAY BECAUSE FOR YOU THIS TOPIC IS SPIRITUALY VALUABLE,
IT IS WORTH TO BE SAVED BY GRACE AND BE ONE LITTLE PART OF ETERNAL BODY OF CHRIST MEMBER OF GREAT CROWD WHO NEVER DIE IN THE CLOSE FUTURE?
OUR PRAYERS ALWAYS LATELY INCLUDE YOU?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32918 Aug 11, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
Bible say only about 3 baptisms
1st was baptism for Isreal believers,
John Baptist ended this 1st baptism when his head was cut out by herod( it means head,ceremonial law stop exist as direct command to the earhly body(antiguity ancient meaning is like this
on this place God place spiritual HEAD JESUS CHRIST,and start to be only 2 baptisms
1/water and not eternal saving
2/ selection of saints from those unsaved baptised and baptism in fire and Holy Spirit,so call Born Again by direct only power of Holy Spirit(not pope or any church priest assistances)John 1;13.3;8-9
Doc,

Only John was baptizing the followers of his sect in a remote area, his own way. Baptism was never prescribed for the Jews.

The mainstream Jews were never baptized John's way.

Did Moses baptize his people?

Did Joshua baptize his people?

Did Isaiah baptize his people?

Did all the past prophets baptize their people?

Answer: No
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32919 Aug 11, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but your wrong here. I am not comparing Jesus washing Peter's feet with [water baptism] but with the baptism of the Holy Spirit Jesus must do this washing and He gave us this example with the washing of Peter.

Saban, there you go again only looking at the water when speaking of baptism. This will not save one Saban this is a sign this I have said many times now to you but you just do not see this, I am sorry but God has to give one repentance to acknowledge this truth you may think this is all [hogwash] as you have said but this is the word of God when we see that it is only the power and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that can save apart from any work we have done least we boast, Eph. 2:8-9.

The problem is Saban, many love to boast in what they have done to help their salvation it will not wash, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins period!

Saban, you can only look at the literal and I can understand this because ONE MUST BE BORN OF THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT TO SEE THIS TRUTH, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26, John 4:23.

Saban, only when God saves one then they will know without doubt it was nothing that they have done to help God for you to become saved. Saban, there is no work at all we can do to get our self saved this was already done before the foundation of the world, Ehp. 1:4-6. You cannot see this wonderful truth even when you read those verses the reason being is, God must apply His word to ones heart for them to see truth this is a gift of God least any man should boast. This is why you think 2 Tim. 2:25-26 is all [hogwash] that you cannot repent yourself God has to grant one repentance to acknowledge the truth this is not true you say. I did not say this Saban, it is God telling us this fact, your problem is not with me it is with the word of God here.

Now Saban, you can go on and on about your water dunking this is fine but I can tell you it will not wash you, Jesus Christ and Him only can wash one clean of their sins no water can do this. Your trust is in the picture it is not in the substance it is like you are saying the real you is your shadow not you. Thank you and can we take our next question please. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Next question? OK! Here's several:
You are comparing Jesus' washing of Peter's feet with Baptism over and over and over. In Luke 7:38 Jesus has his feet washed how do you compare this to John's baptism of Jesus?
Looking at Peter's foot washing by Jesus, didn't Peter at first refuse and have to give in or submit to Jesus' washing. In your view this would be a work by Peter since it is no different from my submitting to Jesus' command, correct?!
Didn't Jesus was Judas' feet too? Was Judas then washed in the Holy Spirit from this as you've alluded to with Peter? No way! The Holy Spirit Baptism wouldn't arrive until 50 or so days later.
Comparing that event with the baptism were required to submit to in Acts 2:38, wouldn't you have to say that Holy Spirit baptism came to them by their works? Didn't they have to stay and wait in Jerusalem for the arrival of the Holy Spirit. By your definition of my submitting to baptism being a work (going to the water and submitting) how would putting your life on hold for over a month and waiting not be considered a work?
Not that I'm saying it is a work, but I don't think YOU can have it both ways.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32920 Aug 11, 2013
Hi bmz:

Thank you for explaining this and for your input. Again, thank you. Gary 1 John 3:13-15
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Doc,
Only John was baptizing the followers of his sect in a remote area, his own way. Baptism was never prescribed for the Jews.
The mainstream Jews were never baptized John's way.
Did Moses baptize his people?
Did Joshua baptize his people?
Did Isaiah baptize his people?
Did all the past prophets baptize their people?
Answer: No
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32921 Aug 12, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi bmz:
Thank you for explaining this and for your input. Again, thank you. Gary 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

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