What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32757 Aug 7, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
All OT prophesy pointed to the Messiah. The Messiah fulfilled those prophesies. Just two examples would be Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 which happen to be prophesy foretelling Jesus' death.
Exactly which prophesy do we read about foretelling of any prophet that would arrive after Jesus Christ?
Evidence of Jesus' death? His disciples fled and feared and denied prior to his death. Afterwards, they had absolutely no fear of anything in this life. Preaching Jesus - and what they knew He did for us - was their #1 concern - no matter the cost. Why? They saw Jesus defeat death and sin - Then and only then, they were absolutely certain he was the Messiah.
He didn't come back in the Kingly form the Jews had hoped for and expected and His Kingdom wasn't what they had expected either. But, what it was did fulfill ALL Old Testament prophesy.

And, we're given warnings in the New Testament that even if an Angel teaches something contrary to what they've taught, it is incorrect and we are not to believe it.

Where in the Old Testament can we read about the one you follow, besides in Ishmael?
Interesting!

No Messiah was promised to the Jews by God. There is no prophesy about a messiah by God at all in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Only a prophet was promised in Deut 18:18-19 and after Moses, none of the sort described to Moses, came to Israel. Jesus does not fit the description given in Deut 18. And I believe that Muhammad, our Prophet fits and meets that description.

You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.

So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32758 Aug 7, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting!
No Messiah was promised to the Jews by God. There is no prophesy about a messiah by God at all in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Only a prophet was promised in Deut 18:18-19 and after Moses, none of the sort described to Moses, came to Israel. Jesus does not fit the description given in Deut 18. And I believe that Muhammad, our Prophet fits and meets that description.
You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.
So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?
Looking at Deut. 18 beginning with verse 15, it is unreasonable, unbelievable and ridiculous to take the Lord Jesus Christ out of this passage. Philip had this passage in mind when he said "We have found him of whom Moses in the law did write, Jesus of Nazareth (John 1:45). Christ had it in mind himself when he said, "Moses wrote of me." (John 5:46), Stephen declared Christ to be the fulfillment of this prophesy (Acts 7:37). Peter quoted the prophesy in Acts 3:22-23 as referring to Christ.

The very language of this prophecy "Unto him shall ye hearken" was quoted verbatim by Almighty God Himself on the Mount of Transfiguration, and He applied it unequivocally to Jesus Christ alone (Matt. 17:5). The Samaritans had no O.T. except the five Books of Moses, but upon that basis, and therefore upon the testimony of this passage the Samaritan woman said, "I know that Messiah cometh, he that is called Christ" (John 4:25). Now this unanimous testimony of Christ, the apostles, and even the Samaritans that Moses "wrote of Christ" has to be a reference to this passage, because, if Moses did not write of Christ in this place, where is it found that he did?

Where in all history was there after Moses another mediator except Christ? In this we have the certainty of the unique application of this passage to Jesus Christ and to Jesus Christ only.

There remains the investigation of the ways in which Jesus Christ was uniquely "that Prophet" like unto Moses.

Both were objects of Divine intervention to save their lives in infancy.

Both were sons of virgin princesses.

Both were called to deliver God's people.

Both were rejected by Israel.

Both were the greatest miracle-workers that the world ever saw.

Both left a palace (Jesus left heaven, Moses left Pharaoh's) to do their work.

Both gave themselves up for God's people.

Both were mediators, Moses of the Old Covenant, Jesus of the New Covenant.

Both were both prophet and king to the people.

Both have their words enshrined in the Bible.

Both were Israelites from among the brethren.

Both accomplished their missions.

Both delivered God's law to men.

Both were transfigured.

Both had God's people baptized "unto them."

Both gave bread to Israel, the manna and "the bread of life."

Both received special treatment in death - God buried Moses and God raised Jesus.

Both lead God's people - Moses in the wilderness; Christ during our lives.

Both Moses and Jesus were faithful.

Both were full of compassion and love for the people whom they led.

Both constructed essential institutions, the tabernacle and the church.

Both spoke with God face-to-face.

Both were prophets of super ability.

Both were master teachers of superlative ability.

Both exhibited infinite patience with sinful men.

Both were honored by 3,000 responses the day their laws went into effect.

Both began their miracles in water - the Nile to blood; the water to wine. Both gave water to the people - Moses at the rock, Christ the living water.

Both delivered people from slavery - Moses literally, Christ from sin.

Both were shepherds - Moses literally; Christ is the Good Shepherd.

Etc., etc., etc.
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32759 Aug 7, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
To answer your questions,
1- Correct, we need the word and the Spirit. However, anyone adding to the work of God is truly void of the Spirit of God because they fall under a works gospel we are saved by grace through faith not of works least any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9
2- There is no infant conversion concerning water baptism being infant or grown up there is no conversion in any mode of water Baptism. God must wash us, John 4, Peter had to be washed by the Lord fact!
3- No, GOD'S GRACE CAN SAVE A CHILD AS EASY AS THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. HOWEVER,, FAITH MUST COME BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD, ROM. 10:17. THE CHILD MUST BE BORN AGAIN, JOHN 3:1-6.
4- No! It is after one is saved not before one is saved that saves them by doing this or that first God must give one the gift to repent to understand the true gospel fact! 2 Tim. 2:25-26.
5- One first must be born again to obey the truth this is why many will not obey Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:11-24 because they first want to do a work so they can boast.
6- Did you get baptized by Philip? You said the same way you were baptized.
7- Washing Peter feet and Psalm 58 has nothing to do with each other there is no tie in here, show me the tie-in?
8- From the womb they go astray as SOON AS THEY BE BORN. You missed this part for some reason afterwards you will see them spread lies period!
9- The venom is the poison of sin for the wages of sin is death.
10- Cobra's is lethal as sin is lethal for it will bring death.
11- the fangs of a lion is another picture of death this is what sin brings forth.
12- the arrow causes death when hit as sin causes death.
Now I answered 12 of your questions and I asked you before please just one or two since your questions are all very basic I did but from here on just one or two.
Now I have just one question I asked you many times over. When Jesus commands all of us that we MUST be born again to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Does this not include babies? Where does it say in John 3, it does not? Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I'm proud of you Gary for answering most of them!
As a recap:

1. So we agree that we learn to "obey the gospel" via the Spirit and the Word. The problem is you believe we're saved before we obey and the scriptures tell us we must obey. The verses you refer to again in your answer were written to people that were already Christians at Ephesus. they were already in Christ by being baptized into Christ.

2. You said there is no conversion in any mode of water baptism" Gary, even John's was for "remission of sins". I still don't understand your point about Peter. His feet weren't "baptized". I was spiritually washed by the Lord during baptism.

3. So, the child must hear the Word to be covered in God's grace therefore any and all infants are doomed to hell in your opinion. Why limit God's grace in such a manner as to make the innocent guilty of sins passed down from generations before? RIDICULOUS! That is contrary to biblical teaching.
The children I've seen barely even learn the meaning of "No" for the first few years.

4. So, if I understand you correctly, none of Matt. 28:19-20 is considered works yet Jesus Christ is commanding his disciples to baptize. It's not a Catch-22 for me Gary, but it sure looks like you're trapped here in incorrect doctrine.

5. So you really believe obedience is completely out of our hands. God either programs you to obey or programs you to hell? The whole Bible is filled with too many choices/decisions (right and wrong) for me to believe we have no free-will.

6. No, Philip didn't baptize me into Christ in the water as he did the Eunuch, but it is the exact same way I was baptized.

7. I didn't say washing Peter's feet had anything to do with Psalm 58. After asking you the question about Peter's feet I moved on to a different subject.
So how about that question? Did the scriptures say Jesus baptized Peter's feet?

(cont.)
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32760 Aug 7, 2013
recap continued:

8. No. Psalm 58 says from the womb...they are spreading lies - The question: To whom from the womb? Explain!!

9. So you're admitting the venom is NOT LITERAL! Good job!!

10. So you're admitting the cobra is NOT LITERAL! Good job!!

11. So you're admitting the fangs like lions is NOT LITERAL! Good job!!

12. So you're admitting the bow and arrow is NOT LITERAL! Good job!!

It surprises me that you can understand that nothing in the passage (Psalm 58) is to be taken literally.........but you make an exception, in order to promote YOUR doctrine, with 1/2 of 1 verse.

You know better now Gary. It's time to understand the truth. You shouldn't continue to promote this man-made doctrine you're grasping so tightly to. Its false teaching and to continue, knowing what you know now, is eternally futile.
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32761 Aug 7, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting!
No Messiah was promised to the Jews by God. There is no prophesy about a messiah by God at all in the Hebrew Scriptures.
Only a prophet was promised in Deut 18:18-19 and after Moses, none of the sort described to Moses, came to Israel. Jesus does not fit the description given in Deut 18. And I believe that Muhammad, our Prophet fits and meets that description.
You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.
So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?
Additionally, when we look at Deut. 18:20 we find that the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

Your prophet is buried in Melina, correct?

Jesus rose from the dead. Was seen by many after rising from the dead and his rising from the dead is what made Christianity spread so quickly. If it had not happened those people would not have been so quick to believe it and his disciples wouldn't have risked the rest of their lives for the cause.

For Christ, there is no burial location.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32762 Aug 7, 2013
Hi Saban:

It is truly sad and everyone can see this truth, Here I answer your 12 questions at once and you cannot even answer my one question. I feel truly sad for you Saban truly I do.

I hope God will grant you repentance to truly acknowledge the true gospel of grace alone, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, apart from any silly man made work we try to do.

I asked you to keep the questions down and yet you mock, scoff and make light of the true gospel. Saban, in love I will tell you why you do this. Your spell bounded by your church as I asked you before what church do you attend? The sad fact is, your ashamed of your church if you were not you would be proud to show what your church believes. I asked you God tells us we MUST be born again, where does He say, except for babies in, John 3:1-8.

Saban, any one can see I keep answering you basic questions and yet your void of the word why? Please read Psalm. 51, Ezek. 36, Rom. 9:11-24, Eph. 1:4-6, Rom. 3:10-12.

Saban, I asked you about these verses and many more any one can go back and look that your void of the word sad, so sad to say. I thought you wanted the truth when you said the only way to be saved is only by the word and the Spirit, I am truly sorry to see you have departed from the foundation. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
To answer your questions,
1- Correct, we need the word and the Spirit. However, anyone adding to the work of God is truly void of the Spirit of God because they fall under a works gospel we are saved by grace through faith not of works least any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9
2- There is no infant conversion concerning water baptism being infant or grown up there is no conversion in any mode of water Baptism. God must wash us, John 4, Peter had to be washed by the Lord fact!
3- No, GOD'S GRACE CAN SAVE A CHILD AS EASY AS THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. HOWEVER,, FAITH MUST COME BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD, ROM. 10:17. THE CHILD MUST BE BORN AGAIN, JOHN 3:1-6.
4- No! It is after one is saved not before one is saved that saves them by doing this or that first God must give one the gift to repent to understand the true gospel fact! 2 Tim. 2:25-26.
5- One first must be born again to obey the truth this is why many will not obey Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:11-24 because they first want to do a work so they can boast.
6- Did you get baptized by Philip? You said the same way you were baptized.
7- Washing Peter feet and Psalm 58 has nothing to do with each other there is no tie in here, show me the tie-in?
8- From the womb they go astray as SOON AS THEY BE BORN. You missed this part for some reason afterwards you will see them spread lies period!
9- The venom is the poison of sin for the wages of sin is death.
10- Cobra's is lethal as sin is lethal for it will bring death.
11- the fangs of a lion is another picture of death this is what sin brings forth.
12- the arrow causes death when hit as sin causes death.
Now I answered 12 of your questions and I asked you before please just one or two since your questions are all very basic I did but from here on just one or two.
Now I have just one question I asked you many times over. When Jesus commands all of us that we MUST be born again to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Does this not include babies? Where does it say in John 3, it does not? Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32763 Aug 7, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Additionally, when we look at Deut. 18:20 we find that the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

Your prophet is buried in Melina, correct?

Jesus rose from the dead. Was seen by many after rising from the dead and his rising from the dead is what made Christianity spread so quickly. If it had not happened those people would not have been so quick to believe it and his disciples wouldn't have risked the rest of their lives for the cause.

For Christ, there is no burial location.
You did not answer my question:

You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.

So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?

The Prophet's grave is in Medina.

So, do all the prophets, who died and were buried fall under Deut 18:20?

No one saw a dead Jesus rising up. Women saw an empty tomb.

Peter went back home wondering what had happened? Are you aware of this?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32764 Aug 7, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
There remains the investigation of the ways in which Jesus Christ was uniquely "that Prophet" like unto Moses.
Both were objects of Divine intervention to save their lives in infancy.
Both were sons of virgin princesses.
Both were called to deliver God's people.
Both were rejected by Israel.
Both were the greatest miracle-workers that the world ever saw.
Both left a palace (Jesus left heaven, Moses left Pharaoh's) to do their work.
Both gave themselves up for God's people.
Both were mediators, Moses of the Old Covenant, Jesus of the New Covenant.
Both were both prophet and king to the people.
Both have their words enshrined in the Bible.
Both were Israelites from among the brethren.
Both accomplished their missions.
Both delivered God's law to men.
Both were transfigured.
Both had God's people baptized "unto them."
Both gave bread to Israel, the manna and "the bread of life."
Both received special treatment in death - God buried Moses and God raised Jesus.
Both lead God's people - Moses in the wilderness; Christ during our lives.
Both Moses and Jesus were faithful.
Both were full of compassion and love for the people whom they led.
Both constructed essential institutions, the tabernacle and the church.
Both spoke with God face-to-face.
Both were prophets of super ability.
Both were master teachers of superlative ability.
Both exhibited infinite patience with sinful men.
Both were honored by 3,000 responses the day their laws went into effect.
Both began their miracles in water - the Nile to blood; the water to wine. Both gave water to the people - Moses at the rock, Christ the living water.
Both delivered people from slavery - Moses literally, Christ from sin.
Both were shepherds - Moses literally; Christ is the Good Shepherd.
Etc., etc., etc.
Some differences:

Moses had a father. Jesus had no father.

Mary was not married. Moses' mother was married. Moses' father married his father's sister.

God spoke direct only with Moses. We do not see God talking to Jesus directly at all.

Jesus was a carpenter, not a shepherd. He was a shepherd only in the sense that he tried to guide his flock of twelve and some others.

While Moses freed Hebrew slaves from the Pharaoh. Jesus did not get his people freed from the Roman occupation.

Jesus founded no church. After he passed away, his disciples worshipped the LORD at the Temple.

Moses was accepted by Israel. Jesus was not. He was rejected.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32765 Aug 7, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
It is truly sad and everyone can see this truth, Here I answer your 12 questions at once and you cannot even answer my one question. I feel truly sad for you Saban truly I do.
I hope God will grant you repentance to truly acknowledge the true gospel of grace alone, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, apart from any silly man made work we try to do.
I asked you to keep the questions down and yet you mock, scoff and make light of the true gospel. Saban, in love I will tell you why you do this. Your spell bounded by your church as I asked you before what church do you attend? The sad fact is, your ashamed of your church if you were not you would be proud to show what your church believes. I asked you God tells us we MUST be born again, where does He say, except for babies in, John 3:1-8.
Saban, any one can see I keep answering you basic questions and yet your void of the word why? Please read Psalm. 51, Ezek. 36, Rom. 9:11-24, Eph. 1:4-6, Rom. 3:10-12.
Saban, I asked you about these verses and many more any one can go back and look that your void of the word sad, so sad to say. I thought you wanted the truth when you said the only way to be saved is only by the word and the Spirit, I am truly sorry to see you have departed from the foundation. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
Before you finish patting yourself on the back for finally answering MOST of the 12 questions you've been skipping over for over a week, give yourself a pat on the back from me. I was beginning to believe you were just ashamed to put your answers in writing.

Skipping over your question was a complete accident. I didn't have room to complete a reply on the first post and my second post wasn't attached to your origional so basically the question just slid right by me. Thanks for the reminder though.

My answer:
There's a certain amount of knowledge one must understand before they can be born again. They must hear and believe the Word. They must repent (Acts 2:38) of their sin and confess Jesus as the son of God. At that time they are ready to be born again. Do you know babies that have the intellect and understanding to do these things? I don't. Maybe that's why we don't read of any conversions of children....

I told you which church I am a member of. I'm a member of Christ's church. Again, I see I must remind you- its not My church. This is the same church we read about in the scriptures. Didn't I show you Romans 16:16??

Reading between the lines -- did you just refer to baptism as silly? Jesus himself submitted to baptism. Why? Was it silly?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32766 Aug 7, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not answer my question:
You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.
So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?
The Prophet's grave is in Medina.
So, do all the prophets, who died and were buried fall under Deut 18:20?
No one saw a dead Jesus rising up. Women saw an empty tomb.
Peter went back home wondering what had happened? Are you aware of this?
You're right about one thing. When Jesus ascended he was very much alive.

At Jesus' death his disciples were dumbfounded as you've alluded to. They all must have seen something AMAZING to completely change their attitudes for the rest of their lives. They saw the risen Jesus!! From then on they had a conviction nothing on earth could shake!!

Gal. 1:8 was Paul addressing people who were already Christians. His warning about false teaching does not in any way address the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. Those are the gospel according to...(Insert Matthew or Mark or whomever). There is only ONE gospel and it is the story of Jesus Christ's life, his death, burial and resurrection. Those books you mention are about THE gospel of Christ according to them from their perspectives.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32767 Aug 8, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Some differences:
Moses had a father. Jesus had no father.
Mary was not married. Moses' mother was married. Moses' father married his father's sister.
God spoke direct only with Moses. We do not see God talking to Jesus directly at all.
Jesus was a carpenter, not a shepherd. He was a shepherd only in the sense that he tried to guide his flock of twelve and some others.
While Moses freed Hebrew slaves from the Pharaoh. Jesus did not get his people freed from the Roman occupation.
Jesus founded no church. After he passed away, his disciples worshipped the LORD at the Temple.
Moses was accepted by Israel. Jesus was not. He was rejected.
Matt. 16:18
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

You mention the temple but the church is not a building it's the Christians. If the people gathered at the Temple, what better location was the to preach about Jesus?

Your making the same mistake the Jews did. Jesus didn't come to be a physical king. Jesus is a spiritual king. He freed his people from sin.

Mark 14:27
[ Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial ] Then Jesus said to them,“All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written:‘I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered.’

John 10:1
[ Jesus the True Shepherd ]“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Heb. 13:20
[ Benediction, Final Exhortation, Farewell ] Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Matt. 3
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying,“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32768 Aug 8, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right about one thing. When Jesus ascended he was very much alive.
I never said that.

This is what I had written:

You did not answer my question:

You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.

So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?

The Prophet's grave is in Medina.

So, do all the prophets, who died and were buried fall under Deut 18:20?

No one saw a dead Jesus rising up. Women saw an empty tomb.

Peter went back home wondering what had happened? Are you aware of this?

To me, Jesus lived, died and was buried in an unmarked grave.

He is dead, dust and bones, so please let him rest in peace.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32769 Aug 8, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt. 16:18
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
You mention the temple but the church is not a building it's the Christians. If the people gathered at the Temple, what better location was the to preach about Jesus?
Your making the same mistake the Jews did. Jesus didn't come to be a physical king. Jesus is a spiritual king. He freed his people from sin.
Mark 14:27
[ Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial ] Then Jesus said to them,“All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written:‘I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered.’
John 10:1
[ Jesus the True Shepherd ]“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Heb. 13:20
[ Benediction, Final Exhortation, Farewell ] Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Matt. 3
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying,“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
You are off-topic, Saban. What has this got do with what I wrote?

I had written this to show differences between Moses and Jesus.
:
Some differences:

Moses had a father. Jesus had no father.

Mary was not married. Moses' mother was married. Moses' father married his father's sister.

God spoke direct only with Moses. We do not see God talking to Jesus directly at all.

Jesus was a carpenter, not a shepherd. He was a shepherd only in the sense that he tried to guide his flock of twelve and some others.

While Moses freed Hebrew slaves from the Pharaoh. Jesus did not get his people freed from the Roman occupation.

Jesus founded no church. After he passed away, his disciples worshipped the LORD at the Temple.
Moses was accepted by Israel. Jesus was not. He was rejected.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32770 Aug 8, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but it is truly sad when I answer 12 of your questions and you cannot come clean in what denomination you belong to this tells me you are ashamed of your denomination sad to say because if you truly believed it was the Lord's church you would say what denomination there are hundreds of denominations are they all Christ's church? No way! There is not a hundred different kinds of truth there is only one truth Saban and unless your born of the word and the Spirit you will never see truth you will go off into a works gospel and water dunking is a works just look what God did to these men who just picked up a few sticks on the Sabath day they were killed because of this little minute work and you say this water dunking is not a work? Come on Saban you have to come out of the clouds here and see it for what it is a work. You cannot even see this basic truth people been trying to help you in this area and you just do not see it we are not saved by some work we do only by God's grace through faith alone. saban it is silly to think when is saved by getting dunked is he saved d if he just gets sprinkled? This is all silly this is a fact your so consumed on the mode when God tells us He must sprinkle us with clean water Saban, Ezeak. 36. However, you say, no! we must get dunked in water to be saved. This is what I call silly Saban debating how much water needs to be spilled on you to become saved. Was Peter dunked to be saved by Jesus? No! Jesus had to do all the washing and you say no! We must do the washing and it must be by dunking.

Your next question, Do you know babies that have the intellect to do these things?

Saban, your not listening to me, I gave you a perfect example before with John the Baptist being in the womb, God gave John spiritual ears it has nothing to with how smart you are and how much you know. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, Rom. 10:17. John in the womb leaped for joy over the salutation that was spoken by the word from Mary, God applied His word to John in the womb and saved him. Joy is one of the fruits of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23

Saban, you can only look at the literal it will not wash you MUST be born again, John 3:1-7 period!
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Before you finish patting yourself on the back for finally answering MOST of the 12 questions you've been skipping over for over a week, give yourself a pat on the back from me. I was beginning to believe you were just ashamed to put your answers in writing.
Skipping over your question was a complete accident. I didn't have room to complete a reply on the first post and my second post wasn't attached to your origional so basically the question just slid right by me. Thanks for the reminder though.
My answer:
There's a certain amount of knowledge one must understand before they can be born again. They must hear and believe the Word. They must repent (Acts 2:38) of their sin and confess Jesus as the son of God. At that time they are ready to be born again. Do you know babies that have the intellect and understanding to do these things? I don't. Maybe that's why we don't read of any conversions of children....
I told you which church I am a member of. I'm a member of Christ's church. Again, I see I must remind you- its not My church. This is the same church we read about in the scriptures. Didn't I show you Romans 16:16??
Reading between the lines -- did you just refer to baptism as silly? Jesus himself submitted to baptism. Why? Was it silly?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32771 Aug 8, 2013
Hi bmz:

I am sorry but this is Saban's problem, he thinks he is answering your questions when he skims over them. Do not hold your breathe to get your questions answered.

Saban, if you need the answer I will try to help you but just one or two questions at a time not 12 and still you say I do not answer your questions sad, so sad you have not come to grips with those verses we are sharing with you. Saban, love hopeth in all things, 1 Cor. 13, and we hope nothing but the very highest good for you no slander, mocking just the truth that can set the captives free, Jesus said: My word is truth. Thank you bmz for your in-put. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said that.
This is what I had written:
You did not answer my question:
You quoted from Galatians 1:8 and under that clause, you are not supposed to accept Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and others, who stand accursed in Paul's view.
So, why do you not follow only what Paul preached?
The Prophet's grave is in Medina.
So, do all the prophets, who died and were buried fall under Deut 18:20?
No one saw a dead Jesus rising up. Women saw an empty tomb.
Peter went back home wondering what had happened? Are you aware of this?
To me, Jesus lived, died and was buried in an unmarked grave.
He is dead, dust and bones, so please let him rest in peace.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32772 Aug 8, 2013
Dear all:

The Bible is a spiritual book and only those that are born again by the word and the Spirit will see truth, John 3:1-8, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.

Many churches and people look at the Bible like any other book that is, literally when God shows us in His word how to compare the word with spiritual things,

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Cor. 2:13.

Example, when John the Baptist said, behold the Lamb of God who taketh away sin,, We know Jesus is not a literal Lamb. However, Jesus also said in Mark 4, without a parable He does not speak unto them but by parables. Now a parable is an earthly saying with a spiritual meaning.

So many churches will look at the Bible in a literal way and say if you do not get dunked or sprinkeled in some literal water you cannot be saved. They look at the word [baptize] only in the literal sense and when you show them we must be baptized by the spirit of God that is,[washed] to make clean by the word and the Spirit they will not believe God they will insist if one does not get dunked into a tank or pool of water they are not saved. They will use verses like Acts 2:38 for there hall mark proof when the fact is, there is no mention of the word water in those verses this is all they see when they see the word baptize they look at water when the word means [to was to make clean] and we can see what makes clean Is the washing of the water by the word n Eph. 5:6, this is why Jesus told the woman at the well I will give you living water that you will not thirst again this is speaking about salvation. This is why we see the wonderful example of Jesus washing Peter's feet, the fact is, Jesus is the one the only one that can wash one to make one clean we cannot do this by some act of water dunking no way! All this is a work of what man does to puff himself up and say, you see I was saved when I was water baptized. Now they will say they were saved by the word and the Spirit but they make all this void when they deny it and say I was saved after I was baptized by some water what I did ME, ME, I, I. this is what many will say on the last day in Matthew 7:22-23, MANY will say, HAVE NOT I done many wonderful works? Jesus will expose these wolves in sheeps clothing these pastors and such, Jesus will tell them, I never knew you depart from me you the WORK WICKEDNESS.

The church will tell you if you attend a church and have good standing with the church your in the body of Christ when you tithe that is, give your 10 percent, when you made an alter call, when YOU made a good confession, when YOU repented, when YOU accepted Jesus when YOU do good works when YOU get water baptized, when YOU do this and that the list goes on. It is all based on what YOU, ME, I.

God tells us it is not of him that can will himself do be saved but only by the mercy of God period!

"So then it is NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." Romans 9:16.

So the sad fact IS,

MOST OF THESE DENOMINATIONS HAVE NO CLUE OF THE PURE GRACE OF GOD THIS IS WHY THEY TRULY HATE VERSES SUCH AS THIS, OH NO THEY WOULD NEVER SAY THIS BUT IN THEIR ACTION THEY DO.

This is why God tells us that judgment MUST begin in the house of God, 1 Peter 4:17.

We can see today no matter how many verses and answering their questions they will never see the truth because they are drunk with man's wisdom as 1 Cor. 2:13 declares they cannot compare spiritual things with the Spirit because they are not born again of the word and the Spirit this is why they cannot understand that even babies must be born again of the word and the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. Thank you. Gary
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32773 Aug 8, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi bmz:

I am sorry but this is Saban's problem, he thinks he is answering your questions when he skims over them. Do not hold your breathe to get your questions answered.

Saban, if you need the answer I will try to help you but just one or two questions at a time not 12 and still you say I do not answer your questions sad, so sad you have not come to grips with those verses we are sharing with you.

Saban, love hopeth in all things, 1 Cor. 13, and we hope nothing but the very highest good for you no slander, mocking just the truth that can set the captives free, Jesus said: My word is truth.

Thank you bmz for your in-put. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
Thank you, Gary and you are welcome. Well said.

The biggest problem is that genuine questions remained unanswered.

I find that most of the Christian posters are not well read.

Have a good day.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32774 Aug 8, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi bmz:
I am sorry but this is Saban's problem, he thinks he is answering your questions when he skims over them. Do not hold your breathe to get your questions answered.
Saban, if you need the answer I will try to help you but just one or two questions at a time not 12 and still you say I do not answer your questions sad, so sad you have not come to grips with those verses we are sharing with you. Saban, love hopeth in all things, 1 Cor. 13, and we hope nothing but the very highest good for you no slander, mocking just the truth that can set the captives free, Jesus said: My word is truth. Thank you bmz for your in-put. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
"I am sorry but this is Saban's problem,"

- What - you cannot help? I didn't think so anyhow?
- Why not?
- With you making such outlandous suggestions/demands upon people, I can see why they won't. You first need to understand what you post. This Gary, is YOUR issue - you don't conprehend it well enough to speak out for or against it.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32775 Aug 8, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but I am not [patting my self on my back] I am just trying to help with the questions you have and when I answer them I said you will not like the answer and I can see your up-set because I ANSWERED YOUR 12 QUESTIONS THEY WERE NOT HARD QUESTIONS TO ANSWER THEY WERE ALL VERY BASIC MOST HERE I BELIEVE COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING.

The sad thing is this Saban, when I ask you a question you just cannot answer it according to the word this is fine but at least say, Gary, I am sorry I am not sure how to answer this question can you give me some in-put? That is all you had to say but your pride will not allow for this sad to say Saban.

Now Saban, I asked you before where does it state in John 3:1-8 that babies do not have to be born again? Jesus made it very, very, clear that you MUST be born again. Jesus also went on in those verses showing what is born of flesh is flesh like a baby he is born by the flesh he is not born yet of the Spirit unless God saved him by His word and His Spirit because the fact is, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, Rom. 10:17.

Saban, you insist and you add to the word and say,[EVENTUALLY all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Saban, the Bible does not say no such thing. However, you are forcing the Bible to say what you want it to say but God commands us not to add to His word, Rev. 22:18-19.

The Bible is very clear when it states ALL have sinned this includes babies who go astray from the womb as the word declares in, Psalm 58:3, but you want to think that this is not true, now the problem is not with me at this point Saban the problem you have with is God and your churches teaching which you seem that you cannot even answer this most basic question what denomination do you belong? Knowing many churches as I do it is most likely called [the church of Christ denomination] or something very close to this denomination. However, when I ask you it sure seems you are ashamed for some reason. We should be willing to share the hope that we have within us and if you cannot even share what denomination you belong it would show that you do not want to be identified with this denomination for some reason.

Saban, maybe you can think about these matters and if you cannot answer some of the questions I have asked many times before maybe I can assist you if I can help I be glad to, this is what I am here to help and to assist in what the churches will not tell you. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Before you finish patting yourself on the back for finally answering MOST of the 12 questions you've been skipping over for over a week, give yourself a pat on the back from me. I was beginning to believe you were just ashamed to put your answers in writing.
Skipping over your question was a complete accident. I didn't have room to complete a reply on the first post and my second post wasn't attached to your origional so basically the question just slid right by me. Thanks for the reminder though.
My answer:
There's a certain amount of knowledge one must understand before they can be born again. They must hear and believe the Word. They must repent (Acts 2:38) of their sin and confess Jesus as the son of God. At that time they are ready to be born again. Do you know babies that have the intellect and understanding to do these things? I don't. Maybe that's why we don't read of any conversions of children....
I told you which church I am a member of. I'm a member of Christ's church. Again, I see I must remind you- its not My church. This is the same church we read about in the scriptures. Didn't I show you Romans 16:16??
Reading between the lines -- did you just refer to baptism as silly? Jesus himself submitted to baptism. Why? Was it silly?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32777 Aug 8, 2013
Hi bmz:

Thank you. This is why this site was started to try to help those in the churches and to share with them many things the churches will not tell them. This is why it is called,[What the church won't tell you] Again, thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, Gary and you are welcome. Well said.
The biggest problem is that genuine questions remained unanswered.
I find that most of the Christian posters are not well read.
Have a good day.

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