What Your Church Won't Tell You by Dave and Gary Higgins

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Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32733
Aug 6, 2013
 
Hi New:

Fact, sorry your void of the scriptures please chapter and verses please. Thank you. Gary 1 John 3:13-15.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fact?"
Odd as it seems, why do you so-called "Christians" always ask for followers to come to your church, or in the Catholic eyes "come home"....IF.....Jesus chooses us.
You've just been proven that you don't know what Jesus teaches.
Thus, it is plausible to also say that you don't know what your church teaches, and if you think you do, it is wrong.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32734
Aug 6, 2013
 
Hi New:

We need the final authority that is the word of truth that can set the captives free this is why Jesus said: My word is truth. Let's just stick to the word. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
The Spirit of each of us, is eternal and will live an eternal life.
<quoted text>
Not a fact - no proof of such. So you are slinging around "Fact" inaccurately.
According to Christianity - Jesus was born without sin.
<quoted text>
The Spirit is sinless.
<quoted text>
That is why the Spirit is eternal.
<quoted text>
They don't. It is because of men that "sin" enters a baby.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32735
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
"The wicked are estranged FROM THE WOMB; THEY GO ASTRAY AS SOON AS THEY ARE BORN, SPEAKING LIES." Psalms 58:3
<quoted text>
Children begin to learn to speak at approximately 1 yr old or later.

The Psalms passage is not accurate, but what would you expect from somebody who was not literate and understood the human body and our characteristics.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32736
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi New:
Fact, sorry your void of the scriptures please chapter and verses please. Thank you. Gary 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
I'm not void of anything Gary, please stop judging me.

Where does "God" state that the make-up of the canon is accurate and valid?

Where does "God" state that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32737
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi New:
We need the final authority that is the word of truth that can set the captives free this is why Jesus said: My word is truth. Let's just stick to the word. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
No you don't "need the final authority that is the word of truth", because you don't have that access.

You only have words by fallible men.

"this is why Jesus said: My word is truth"
- and yet you don't believe in half of his "words".

Please stop lying, you are making an arse out of yourself and your belief.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32738
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry to say Saban, but better to know this now than later you are the one that is ABOLUTELY WRONG!
I can say this because your void of the word in your conclusion below as I said Saban, we need the word to correct and instruct one not your or my opinion. 2 Tim. 3:16.
1- You said, it is when we chose to be in Christ,,"
2 Here your wrong right from the start and it is very, very, easy to prove this just from the word.
3- Jesus said, you have not chosen me but I have chosen you,,,. Period! John 15:16
4- Saban, the reason why you cannot see this biblical fact is because you believe we are all born sinless.
(removed)
<quoted text>
Gary, you've made the same mistake yet again. When told over and over and over that you must rightly divide the Word of Truth you manage to continue to be somewhat of a slacker.

II Tim 2:15 - "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

Looking more closely at you example in John 15:16 you'll find that Jesus' audience for this continuation of one of His farewell discourses is the Apostles. For them this statement is absolutely true. They were CHOSEN by Jesus for a God-appointed task imposed from above. Here, the 11 are regarded as representatives of the Lord in relation to His church. The power of the office of the Apostles lay for them in the fact that it was not self chosen.

My, my Gary... Do you consider yourself an Apostle? You think you've received the baptism they received from God rather than the one they taught and now you think you, like them, have been CHOSEN by God to do a special Holy Spirit led work for Him...

I could introduce you to a good therapist Gary. Or, you could just begin studying the Bible in a manner spoken of in 2 Tim. 2:15.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32739
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
You question, can you confirm when [the child] is accountable to their sin?
Answer: Just the word, this alone confirms truth period! The test is on man if they will believe God's word or say He is wrong and my church is right.
"The wicked are estranged FROM THE WOMB; THEY GO ASTRAY AS SOON AS THEY ARE BORN, SPEAKING LIES." Psalms 58:3
Thank you, can we take the next question please? Gary 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
OK..

If that answer is true that would lead us to the following questions (Psalm 58):

1. From the womb they spread lies to whom?

2. Who has detected infant venom? To what is it poisonous?

3. Isn't a cobra's venom very lethal to all/most mammals? Does the venom of the child appear only while its a fetus? I'm confused.

4. Their fangs like lions, are these just there while the baby is in the womb? Or, are the fangs just on the evil babies not 'predestined'?

5. Have you seen a newborn draw a bow? Does a child in the womb come with a bow as an accessory? The bow was absent with me and my son. Does that mean we're saved?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32740
Aug 6, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
Question, what denomination church do you attend that you believe has the full truth? I hope your not ashamed in saying because I know where many of them stand in doctrine. You have already said what they believe and I believe it maybe the [church of Christ] or some church closely tied into this teaching. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I've told you several times. It is not a denomination and it is not mine. Why would I be ashamed?

Rom. 16:16b-17
All the churches of Christ send greetings.

17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Does this mean you're finished with your poor attempt to answer my questions and you're going to see if I can defend the beliefs of the church?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32743
Aug 6, 2013
 
Just to make sure we don't get caught up in a back and forth on one or two questions, here's an inventory of unanswered question from the past two days. Feel free to answer in as many posts as you wish. I look forward to your answers!

1. We are to "obey the gospel" as we've been instructed we must do in 2 Thessalonians. We wouldn't know about these instructions had it not been for the Spirit and the Word. Right?

2. Which infant conversion are you going to point me to?

3. Does God's grace not cover the unlearned child?

4. Jesus said “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you (Matthew 28:19,20).
Sounds like "WORK" to me Gary. Do you recommend we ignore this commandment?
Which portion would be considered works and which portions would not be considered works?

5. If one is purified by obeying the truth (1 Pet. 1:22) it looks as if the one being purified has followed instructions. What instructions has the purified one followed in order to be purified?

6. I was baptized the same way the Eunuch was baptized by Philip. Did they get it wrong?

7. Did the scriptures say Jesus baptized Peter's feet?

If Psalm 58 is not hyperbole:
8. from the womb they spread lies to whom?
9. who has detected infant venom? To what is it poisonous?
10. isn't a cobra's venom very lethal to all/most mammals?
11. The fangs like lions, are they just while the baby is in the womb?
12. Have you seen a newborn draw a bow? Does a child in the womb come with a bow as an accessory?

Gary, "sad to say" I'm not remembering any clear answers to these questions I've asked over and over.

Why not pick out a couple of these and help us all understand how they fit in with the doctrine your selling but some of us don't understand.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32744
Aug 6, 2013
 
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
your BS and all babling are boring,
brings nowhere all those readers of your sect devil doctirnes
books about God Gospel outside of Bible are only for dumb blind earthly worthless thelogians, scholars and devil servants like you
Can you try your best to be more coherent, Doc?

I can't make a head or a tail of your posts.

Thanks.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32745
Aug 6, 2013
 
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
you boring me with your LIES
I never belonged or belong to any church on this globe
read others posts and stop Lies
you behave like old Stupid Azheimer desease brain
who told you Joseph was 90
did you know that ancient males and females sexual virility was till the end of their life?
do you know abraham and Sarah their age and having children?
do you know till today those old countries have same law like 2000 years ago,marriage for one purpose to have children
I born in those areas,and know it how old people even today are able to have kids?
not those poisoned by contaminated food western devil countries
stop Lies, and spread insanity about age of Joseph
just pray for understanding,and stop Lies around
Doc,

You need to go and read other books outside the box you live in. Joseph was a very old man.

Virility? Took them donkey years to produce one. You call that virility?

Women cannot have babies after menopause. Have you heard of 70 plus women giving birth to kids in the areas you come from?

Only four books were cherry-picked. You need to read many others to get a better picture. Luke in his opening address to his excellency Theophilus the rich man, agrees that the accounts in other gospels are not orderly. He got his info from the same sources, which were not included in the NT gospels.

You have a long way ahead to learn more.

Cheers
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32746
Aug 6, 2013
 
@ Doc

Brilliant minds discuss topics. Inferior minds discuss people.(Edited Version)

“Turn left at pub Number 42”

Since: Dec 08

Homehill,QLD

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#32747
Aug 6, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
When Qur'aan talks about Abraham, others, Moses and Jesus, that cannot be considered plagiarism, Bobby.
Since there is no evidence of Islam before Mohammad and others concocted the Quran,Id say yes.

Read the 7 sleepers (made up by man) or The cave people in the Quran
Oh wait..
bmz wrote:
Qur'aan rejects, refutes and condemns the Trinity or the Triune God, the Son of God and denies that Jesus was crucified and the question of Jesus' alleged resurrection, does not arise.
If Jesus had really died and had been really resurrected, he would not have remained in hiding and moving in disguise. He would have made a Triumphal Grand Re-Entry into Jerusalem and would have shown himself to his alleged killers. Pilate and San Hedrin would have dropped dead!
4:157
"but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them"

Seems the deceit of Allah is and has caused the problem here.
bmz wrote:
If Qur'aan had agreed with Christianity and her man-made doctrines, it would have then said the same things and only then you could have accused Qur'aan of plagiarism.
Does Qur'aan include anything absurd as Genesis 12:11-14, Genesis 20, Genesis 38 and other stories of the New Testament?
You will find no Judges, no Numbers, no Mark, no Matthew, no Luke, no John, no Paul, no Peter, no Revelation and nothing from other Toms, Dicks and Harries of the Church in Qur'aan.
So, how can you say that Qur'aan plagiarized the nonsense?
Why would the fantasy's of Mohammod agree with the Bible,he was starting his own spin off religion

“Turn left at pub Number 42”

Since: Dec 08

Homehill,QLD

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#32748
Aug 6, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I can accept that because God can make a donkey speak, so God can make an illiterate person speak too. No problem here.
However, I cannot accept that Peter and John really wrote the letters and books.
Of course you do
Mohammod the illiterate and his talking gay donkey Yafoor

"The prophet then asked,do you desire females? The donkey replied, NO!"

I think there is a talking donkey in the Bible and the Quran mentions a talking beast of the earth being sent down to chat with the non believers.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32749
Aug 7, 2013
 
AussieBobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Since there is no evidence of Islam before Mohammad and others concocted the Quran,Id say yes.
Read the 7 sleepers (made up by man) or The cave people in the Quran
Oh wait..
<quoted text>
4:157
"but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them"
Seems the deceit of Allah is and has caused the problem here.
<quoted text>
Why would the fantasy's of Mohammod agree with the Bible,he was starting his own spin off religion
So, where can we find the story of the 7-sleepers in the Bible?

No deception. Let me translate it this way:

"4:156 And with their denial and awful sayings, they made a grave slander against Mary and they said themselves, 4:157 “We have killed the Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah!” Neither did they slay him nor did they crucify him but it only appeared like that to them.

And those who differ in this matter are not sure about this. What definite knowledge do they have except that they follow conjecture. They certainly did not kill him, 4:158 but Allah took him away. And Allah is Mighty and Wise.

4:159 There will be no one among the people of the Book who will believe in this before his death and on the Day of Judgement, he will testify against them."

So, it looked to people as if they were taking him to crucify. In other words, it was a well-managed stage show, which was conducted by Pilate and Jesus ran away unharmed.

Coming to the gospels, to Mark, Matthew and Luke, it appeared that Simon the Cyrene carried the cross.

To John, it appeared as if Jesus carried the cross himself.

So, who is deceiving the people here? John or the three other writers? What you see is a massive confusion and misreporting.

What say ye, Bobby?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32750
Aug 7, 2013
 
AussieBobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you do
Mohammod the illiterate and his talking gay donkey Yafoor

"The prophet then asked,do you desire females? The donkey replied, NO!"

I think there is a talking donkey in the Bible and the Quran mentions a talking beast of the earth being sent down to chat with the non believers.
Where did you hear about the donkey Yafoor, Yafoor? There is nothing about it in the Qur'aan.

Must have come from some polemic presbyter.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32751
Aug 7, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you hear about the donkey Yafoor, Yafoor? There is nothing about it in the Qur'aan.
Must have come from some polemic presbyter.
Numbers 22
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32752
Aug 7, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
So, where can we find the story of the 7-sleepers in the Bible?
No deception. Let me translate it this way:
"4:156 And with their denial and awful sayings, they made a grave slander against Mary and they said themselves, 4:157 “We have killed the Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah!” Neither did they slay him nor did they crucify him but it only appeared like that to them.
And those who differ in this matter are not sure about this. What definite knowledge do they have except that they follow conjecture. They certainly did not kill him, 4:158 but Allah took him away. And Allah is Mighty and Wise.
4:159 There will be no one among the people of the Book who will believe in this before his death and on the Day of Judgement, he will testify against them."
So, it looked to people as if they were taking him to crucify. In other words, it was a well-managed stage show, which was conducted by Pilate and Jesus ran away unharmed.
Coming to the gospels, to Mark, Matthew and Luke, it appeared that Simon the Cyrene carried the cross.
To John, it appeared as if Jesus carried the cross himself.
So, who is deceiving the people here? John or the three other writers? What you see is a massive confusion and misreporting.
What say ye, Bobby?
All OT prophesy pointed to the Messiah. The Messiah fulfilled those prophesies. Just two examples would be Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 which happen to be prophesy foretelling Jesus' death.

Exactly which prophesy do we read about foretelling of any prophet that would arrive after Jesus Christ?

Evidence of Jesus' death? His disciples fled and feared and denied prior to his death. Afterwards, they had absolutely no fear of anything in this life. Preaching Jesus - and what they knew He did for us - was their #1 concern - no matter the cost. Why? They saw Jesus defeat death and sin - Then and only then, they were absolutely certain he was the Messiah.

He didn't come back in the Kingly form the Jews had hoped for and expected and His Kingdom wasn't what they had expected either. But, what it was did fulfill ALL Old Testament prophesy.

And, we're given warnings in the New Testament that even if an Angel teaches something contrary to what they've taught, it is incorrect and we are not to believe it.

Where in the Old Testament can we read about the one you follow, besides in Ishmael?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32753
Aug 7, 2013
 
Hi Saban:

To answer your questions,

1- Correct, we need the word and the Spirit. However, anyone adding to the work of God is truly void of the Spirit of God because they fall under a works gospel we are saved by grace through faith not of works least any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9

2- There is no infant conversion concerning water baptism being infant or grown up there is no conversion in any mode of water Baptism. God must wash us, John 4, Peter had to be washed by the Lord fact!

3- No, GOD'S GRACE CAN SAVE A CHILD AS EASY AS THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. HOWEVER,, FAITH MUST COME BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD, ROM. 10:17. THE CHILD MUST BE BORN AGAIN, JOHN 3:1-6.

4- No! It is after one is saved not before one is saved that saves them by doing this or that first God must give one the gift to repent to understand the true gospel fact! 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

5- One first must be born again to obey the truth this is why many will not obey Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:11-24 because they first want to do a work so they can boast.

6- Did you get baptized by Philip? You said the same way you were baptized.

7- Washing Peter feet and Psalm 58 has nothing to do with each other there is no tie in here, show me the tie-in?

8- From the womb they go astray as SOON AS THEY BE BORN. You missed this part for some reason afterwards you will see them spread lies period!

9- The venom is the poison of sin for the wages of sin is death.

10- Cobra's is lethal as sin is lethal for it will bring death.

11- the fangs of a lion is another picture of death this is what sin brings forth.

12- the arrow causes death when hit as sin causes death.

Now I answered 12 of your questions and I asked you before please just one or two since your questions are all very basic I did but from here on just one or two.

Now I have just one question I asked you many times over. When Jesus commands all of us that we MUST be born again to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Does this not include babies? Where does it say in John 3, it does not? Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
Just to make sure we don't get caught up in a back and forth on one or two questions, here's an inventory of unanswered question from the past two days. Feel free to answer in as many posts as you wish. I look forward to your answers!
1. We are to "obey the gospel" as we've been instructed we must do in 2 Thessalonians. We wouldn't know about these instructions had it not been for the Spirit and the Word. Right?
2. Which infant conversion are you going to point me to?
3. Does God's grace not cover the unlearned child?
4. Jesus said “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you (Matthew 28:19,20).
Sounds like "WORK" to me Gary. Do you recommend we ignore this commandment?
Which portion would be considered works and which portions would not be considered works?
5. If one is purified by obeying the truth (1 Pet. 1:22) it looks as if the one being purified has followed instructions. What instructions has the purified one followed in order to be purified?
6. I was baptized the same way the Eunuch was baptized by Philip. Did they get it wrong?
7. Did the scriptures say Jesus baptized Peter's feet?
If Psalm 58 is not hyperbole:
8. from the womb they spread lies to whom?
9. who has detected infant venom? To what is it poisonous?
10. isn't a cobra's venom very lethal to all/most mammals?
11. The fangs like lions, are they just while the baby is in the womb?
12. Have you seen a newborn draw a bow? Does a child in the womb come with a bow as an accessory?
Gary, "sad to say" I'm not remembering any clear answers to these questions I've asked over and over.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32756
Aug 7, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Numbers 22
No, not that.

He was quoting some ridiculous story from Hadith.

Hadith is something like the New Testament narrations.

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