What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
USA Born

Claremont, CA

#32713 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry but you do not realize that the whole of the Bible is a spiritual book and only those that are born of the word and the Spirit can look for the spiritual meaning. In Psam 58:1-6 God gives us ugly pictures of sin as a poisonus snake that has deadly poison in their fangs this is a picture of the terrible sin nature that we are all inficted with from the womb on up. You never have to teach a child to be bad they start from the womb wanting their own way and as they get a little older they get worse because they cannot help it they are born speaking lies those verses says as soon as they could they will want their way as any unbeliever they want a do it your self have it your way self help gospel this is also deadly poison spiritually speaking.
This is why I was able to share all the other verses showing that we are dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, and that there is none that will seek after God no not one! Romans 3:1-12,
1= QUESTION, WHEN GOD DESTROYED THE FLOOD WITH ALL THE PEOPLE LEFT FOR JUDGMENT BEHIND WHERE THERE MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN AND BABIES LEFT BEHIND? YES,
2- WHEN GOD DESTROYED THE CITIES OF Sodom WAS THERE MEN WOMAN AND BABIES LEFT BEHIND? YES!
3= Now the fact is a baby is not born [born again] they are just born with a soul like the rest of us where does it state anywhere in the Bible that a baby in the womb or just born is called [born again?] If that was the case Nicudemus should not have been corrected by Jesus when he said should I go back in the womb and be born again? Jesus said, what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit marvel not you must be BORN AGAIN.
Now Saban you want to add to God's word and say that the baby is born again when he is born where does it state this?
You see sad to say Saban you do not understand the core foundation of the nature of mankind that they are wicked this is why God destroyed the world in a flood except for Noah and his family there were many unsaved babies under the judgment in this flood. You will not bow to the word of God unless God humbles you to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. I hope in time you will see by God's mercy what is the true salvation plan of God. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Wow gary, still no humility or fear of God. You obviously continue to follow Harold Camping. You still believe only you and the followers of HC are "spiritual" enough to understand the Bible. You use the "spiritual" thing to change the meaning at will then tell people they can't understand the "spiritual" meaning. It is the same tactic you used when claiming Christ's crucifiction was just a demo and had not impact on the world.
You should try reading, studying and understanding the scriptures yourself instead of listening to men. Only then will you gain discernment and know when men lie.

I John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

You see gary, we do not have to depend on men to give us an interpretation. We don't need to claim the whole Bible as one thing or another except for the Word of God.
USA Born

Claremont, CA

#32714 Aug 6, 2013
SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST. FIRST ONE TOOK A LONG TIME TO SHOW, THOUGHT I HAD LOST IT.
PEACE
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32715 Aug 6, 2013
Saban:

I have shown you this many times before but it just does not sink in you yet.

I have said according to Psalm 58:1-6, and many other verses it is referring to all mankind's condition when we need salvation and when God tells us that as soon as the child is born he will go astray this means they are born in Adam as all of us are that is, we all inherit Adam's sin this is why I keep quoting to you, In Adam ALL die BUT IN Christ ALL SHALL BE MADE ALIVE.

Saban, you do not understand the nature of sin and how it all got started it was started way back there in the garden of Eden and we can see by the language that Adam was born in the likeness of God. However, when Adam sinned a HUGE change took place we read this in Gen. 5:1-3, did you read the HUGE difference here? I am wondering if you are reading the verses I am sharing with you Saban because you never comment on them so I will show you and quote those verses in, Gen. 5:1-3 and we can see the change the image from Christ to the time of Adam's sin it changed to the image to man.

"This is the book of the generations of Adam in the days that God created man, IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD MADE BY HIM. Male and female created He them: and blessed them and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created, And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son IN HIS OWN LIKENESS, AFTER HIS IMAGE, and called his name Seth."

Saban, here I am showing you from God's word not some language I am trying to make up to fit my doctrine no way! Here God is showing us a HUGE change took place here when Adam sinned and he had a Son called Seth he was not created in the likeness of God but was created now in the likeness of his Father Adam.

What happened when sin entered into the world through Adam's transgression this means we all come from the loins of Adam what this means we all started out here by just one man called Adam. Now we can understand if God gives one understanding to see this basic foundational truth that in Adam ALL die but in Christ ALL shall be made alive.

Sabam, what I am sharing with is just basic knowledge most churches teach that we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God because of Adam sin we inherited this sin and this is why we need to be [BORN AGAIN] TO EVEN ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD IT IS A MUST PERIOD!

Now Saban, if you cannot get past this basic foundation how then can I go into deeper things of the word with you? I am sorry not being rude at all here with you but you have not gotten past the ABC of the very nature of how sin started in the world. Now I have shared these verses for you to look up either you never looked them up or God has not given you this basic understanding of how sin started into this world.

Saban, this is why you say [EVENTUALLY MAN DOES SIN] what your stating here is, you know very soon they will sin and here I am showing just how soon they end up in sin they are born and already infected with this sin nature you just do not see it work out right away but it does not take long to see little Tommy lie and tommy saying, he did not put his hand in that cooking jar, when he did. We try to teach our children to do right and it takes everything and they still miss it. You never have to teach a child to do wrong because it comes naturally to them because they are born in sin and in trespasses, Eph. 2:1, this is why we all need to come alive in Christ Jesus and this takes all the work and mercy and grace of God minus any man's work least he go a boasting which most will do. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32716 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Saban:

It is not what saith you Gary.

What I say does not really mean a hill of beans Saban it is always what saith the word? This is where one will find truth it is not found in any mere man or church or creed it is only found by the word, for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word and also by the Spirit of God when He alone saves a person.

The person who is truly saved will believe God's word over man because the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The believer will have a humble, broken and a contrite heart, Psalm 51. He has a real reverential fear of the wrath of God knowing only what Jesus Christ did for him on the cross in 33 AD Jesus said, it is finished there is nothing one can add nor take away from what is finished, Heb. 9:26-29, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. God alone will make the believer truly examine himself to make sure his calling and election is sure, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Only the brethren can look into the mirror of God's word and truly examine himself by the word he will allow the word to correct, reprove, and to instruct him in the word, 2 Tim. 3:16, this is what the word should be doing in our life. However, sad to say most of these churches thinks they have arrived with there creeds and such this is why a Catholic remains a Catholic and the church of Christ remains the same and the protastants, and the Lutherns, Methodists, and on and on it goes nobody knows just how many different sects are out there claiming they have the truth the whole truth when all they have is the teaching of men in many of their teaching. They all think they need no more correction, reproof, or instruction, this is truly sad because they only go so far and stop. Most have no clue what the foundation of salvation is really all about sad to say and we can see this when I share the word with some here. However, some will write to me privately and they can see what the true nature of salvation is all about. There are many that reads these posts but do not comment but I know many can see just how far many have gone in these churches and such, many come on here and just want to show hate, backbiting, bitterness, and such none of this is from the fruit of the Spirit of God, Gal. 5:22-23, they will be exposed by the words we speak even Jesus said, I will not judge you but the words that I speak the same shall judge you. God puts His word very high and many want to triffle with the word and many do not want any correction when the fact is, we all need correction from time to time this is what seperates the believer for the non- believer. The believer at the end will always bow to the authority of the word yes he may fall seven times as the Bible declares yet shall he rise again only because of the mercy of God. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32717 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Dr:

As you know all this should be basic truth and it is to most people what you stated.

If one is born without sin this would mean he has eternal life does it not? What some say sad to say they have no clue what the very foundation is, that is, if they the baby have never sinned being born in this would mean many things and they are all faulty.

1- The only ones that were born without sin was Adam and Eve fact.

2- If everyone was born sinless this would mean that they all lost their eternal life at some point.

3- One cannot lose eternal life this is why it is called eternal, John 3:16.

4- Those thinking that the baby is born without sin is saying, they need no Savior.

5- Some church will even state only Mary was born without sin and never sinned they claim she was also taken up like the Lord she was raised because she was without sin when she [Mary] also admitted that she was a sinner in dire need of a Savior also, Luke 1:46-47

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR"

6- Mary needed salvation also because she to was born in sin like the rest of us. Eph. 2:1 she needed to be quickened or made alive in Christ.

7- To say one is born without sin would make the cross null and void. Jesus died in vain? God forbid!

8- To teach one is born without sin shows they do not understand the nature of what being saved is all about sad to say.

9- Any Church that teaches this foul doctrine such as this is by no means the church that Christ has built.

10- Some churches would try to brain wash a person or members of their church if you do not attend the church you cannot be saved. They fail to see that the true church is wherever the true body of believers are it is not in some literal building that saves one as some would teach sad to say.

Many people are so spell bound by what there church is teaching what ever anyone else shares from the word no matter how true it is they will not and cannot see this most basic truth the reason why is, all they hear must be filtered only by the churches teaching if it does not agree with there church then no matter how true it may be it will be rejected out of hand because they believe without their church they would be lost sad to say many are spell bound by their church they have a grip on them so strong only the Spirit of God can break these shackels of bondage off them to see the truth that can set the captives free. They have no clue that one cannot even repent without God the Holy Spirit granting them true repentance to acknowledge the true gospel, if not the word declares they will be held captive by Satan at his will, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

There is true freedom in Christ alone but when man allows other men or churches to control them, then they are under a strong delusion sad to say many churches are giving people a false sense of security this is why many will be shocked on that day, Matthew 7:22-23. Thank you. Gary
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
if they would be without of sin,they would born as perfect without of sin and never die,
because wages for sin is death Rom 6;23
and doesn't exclude children in the womb of their mothers
sin is DNA degradation of human,not developed after birthday.
go read basic Bible explanation, not BS from your church,and books written by stupid spiritualy blind theologians,scholars, or church spiritual idiots
Sabab fan

Mobile, AL

#32718 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
There is no such term called [non-born again child] no where in the word Your adding to the word and you want it to fit into your churches skeem of things I understand but this language just will not wash I am sorry.
The reason why you try to twist or play with the wording is you want to believe the unborn were already born again. Why they are not even born of the flesh yet, John 3:1-6 what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of Spirit is Spirit. Saban, you do not understand that the baby needs to be born of the Spirit also.
To show how faulty your conclusion is, you believe one must be baptized by water dunking s your mode to be saved yet the baby never was baptized so that would leave all them out also those little ones that are born are all lost according to your faulty teaching. Please think about this. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
Bull. There you go again. Telling me what I think, incorrectly by the way, rather than asking me what I believe. Actually I believe this is just a diversion tactic you're using to avoid the real subject.

For about the 15th time, its not MY church.

Is there such thing as being "born again"? I'll answer that. Yes.
Would one then also conclude that there is such thing as not having been "born again", or 'non-born again', for lack of a better term for non Christian? I'll answer that. Yes.
Is there such thing as a "child"? I'll answer that. Yes.

I do not "believe the unborn were already born again." That's crazy! You've placed a "conclusion" upon a belief you've assigned me to by assumption. Do you know what you make out of you and me when you ass--u--me? Incredible dishonesty you're exhibiting here now!!

Have I already said there can be no such thing as a young child that has been born again because they're not able to understand what's going on, spiritually. Anyone here can look back at my posts to see this is true.

My question as posed to you was whether or not God's grace covered the young or infant child that had not yet been born again. Will you just answer the question? Or, are you going to try to go in another tangent placing words in my mouth I've not said?

You're a false teacher and your dishonesty is exposed, Gary.
Sabab fan

Mobile, AL

#32719 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
There is no such term called [non-born again child] no where in the word Your adding to the word and you want it to fit into your churches skeem of things I understand but this language just will not wash I am sorry.
The reason why you try to twist or play with the wording is you want to believe the unborn were already born again. Why they are not even born of the flesh yet, John 3:1-6 what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of Spirit is Spirit. Saban, you do not understand that the baby needs to be born of the Spirit also.
To show how faulty your conclusion is, you believe one must be baptized by water dunking s your mode to be saved yet the baby never was baptized so that would leave all them out also those little ones that are born are all lost according to your faulty teaching. Please think about this. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
The post this post of yours is replying to says I believe "I am stating babies are safe and covered by God's grace. Eventually THEIR sin separates them from God. When the ability to have an awareness of their sin develops they begin to be accountable to God for that sin. And they will all die in Adam because of sin but if they choose to be "in Christ" they can live everlasting in Heaven."

Yet you've assumed that "my conclusion" is I "want to believe the unborn were already born again."

Instead of making such ludicrous accusations, why don't you just ask instead.

You're ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Being "born again" is when we choose to be "in Christ". Being born again is when we become a Christian and a member of the Lord's body; the church. You have to have understanding in order to be born again into "newness of life".

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32720 Aug 6, 2013
Saban fan wrote:

Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
It is not what saith you Gary.
What I say does not really mean a hill of beans Saban it is always what saith the word? This is where one will find truth it is not found in any mere man or church or creed it is only found by the word, for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word and also by the Spirit of God when He alone saves a person.
The person who is truly saved will believe God's word over man because the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The believer will have a humble, broken and a contrite heart, Psalm 51. He has a real reverential fear of the wrath of God knowing only what Jesus Christ did for him on the cross in 33 AD Jesus said, it is finished there is nothing one can add nor take away from what is finished, Heb. 9:26-29, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. God alone will make the believer truly examine himself to make sure his calling and election is sure, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Only the brethren can look into the mirror of God's word and truly examine himself by the word he will allow the word to correct, reprove, and to instruct him in the word, 2 Tim. 3:16, this is what the word should be doing in our life. However, sad to say most of these churches thinks they have arrived with there creeds and such this is why a Catholic remains a Catholic and the church of Christ remains the same and the protastants, and the Lutherns, Methodists, and on and on it goes nobody knows just how many different sects are out there claiming they have the truth the whole truth when all they have is the teaching of men in many of their teaching. They all think they need no more correction, reproof, or instruction, this is truly sad because they only go so far and stop. Most have no clue what the foundation of salvation is really all about sad to say and we can see this when I share the word with some here. However, some will write to me privately and they can see what the true nature of salvation is all about. There are many that reads these posts but do not comment but I know many can see just how far many have gone in these churches and such, many come on here and just want to show hate, backbiting, bitterness, and such none of this is from the fruit of the Spirit of God, Gal. 5:22-23, they will be exposed by the words we speak even Jesus said, I will not judge you but the words that I speak the same shall judge you. God puts His word very high and many want to triffle with the word and many do not want any correction when the fact is, we all need correction from time to time this is what seperates the believer for the non- believer. The believer at the end will always bow to the authority of the word yes he may fall seven times as the Bible declares yet shall he rise again only because of the mercy of God. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Your post did not answer these questions:

"If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin?"

"Is it conception?"

"Is it birth?"
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32721 Aug 6, 2013
Dear all:
I would like to take this time to share a few things.
1- This site is for those that are in the church who believe that their church has the truth. What I do is examine their church teaching and compare it with the word of God. Now many people read this site I know this for a fact because of the many private letters I will get.
2- We all only know in part and we declare in part, 1 Cor. 13. Some may think less of me because I believe this most basic truth but the true believer should always be growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth. In other words he will make correction from time to time from the word alone, 2 Tim. 3:16.
3- Most if not al the churches will not allow for any correction they already think that they have arrived. What they don't understand this exposes them of their haughty, prideful, arrogant, spirit thinking they are [know it all's], this is truly sad the Scribes and Pharisses of Jesus day thought the very same thing to the point they even added to the law of God as many churches are doing today.
4- This site is to help share with others what the church will not tell you. This is what this site is called it is for those believing they have the true gospel and they want to come here to test their churches doctrine with the test of the word of God will it stand the test?
5- Now I know many will get upset when shown just from the word of God that their church has strayed from the true gospel into a works gospel, they left the pure grace and mercy of God into a do it your self have it your way Mc Donald's self help gospel that will expose them at the end this is why it is so important to make sure we are on the right track.
6- Now I will admit from the start I am not perfect, I do not know it all I to am still on a learning curve as we all should be that is, growing in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. I sometimes need correction also by the word and when shown by the word where I am wrong by God's mercy I am very greatful because all that I want is truth and sometime this may take awhile because it must be on God's time table not mine.
7- Those that come on this site and just slander, mock, show hate, these people have no real interest in growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth all they want to do is stir up strif and trouble they are not content unless they do sad to say my heart truly goes out to some that show this kind of display because I know the trouble they are in with the Lord.
8- I fully understand that many will get upset on this site because what they have been taught by their church some are seeing it does not agree with the word of God at all in fact, some have a different gospel other than the true gospel. This is why I will spend the time if one is truly serious in arriving at truth.
9- I know it is only God that can break the pride of man, It had to happen to me and it still does from time to time we need correction and there should never be any pride involved here, Psalm 51.
10- Without the Spirit of God working in ones life there is no real hope at all. We need the correction by the word and the Spirit only the true believer can do this and only the true believer can worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23. Many think it takes the church to go to and worship the Father in Spirit and in truth when it is not some literal building. It must be by the word and the Spirit. Thank you. Gary

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32722 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Dr:
As you know all this should be basic truth and it is to most people what you stated.
If one is born without sin this would mean he has eternal life does it not? What some say sad to say they have no clue what the very foundation is, that is, if they the baby have never sinned being born in this would mean many things and they are all faulty.<quoted text>
The Spirit of each of us, is eternal and will live an eternal life.
Gary wrote:
1- The only ones that were born without sin was Adam and Eve fact.<quoted text>
Not a fact - no proof of such. So you are slinging around "Fact" inaccurately.

According to Christianity - Jesus was born without sin.
Gary wrote:
2- If everyone was born sinless this would mean that they all lost their eternal life at some point.<quoted text>
The Spirit is sinless.
Gary wrote:
3- One cannot lose eternal life this is why it is called eternal, John 3:16.<quoted text>
That is why the Spirit is eternal.
Gary wrote:
4- Those thinking that the baby is born without sin is saying, they need no Savior.
<quoted text>
They don't. It is because of men that "sin" enters a baby.
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32723 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Saban:
I have shown you this many times before but it just does not sink in you yet.
I have said according to Psalm 58:1-6, and many other verses it is referring to all mankind's condition when we need salvation and when God tells us that as soon as the child is born he will go astray this means they are born in Adam as all of us are that is, we all inherit Adam's sin this is why I keep quoting to you, In Adam ALL die BUT IN Christ ALL SHALL BE MADE ALIVE.
Saban, you do not understand the nature of sin and how it all got started it was started way back there in the garden of Eden and we can see by the language that Adam was bor (removed to fit Saban's reply)
Saban, here I am showing you from God's word not some language I am trying to make up to fit my doctrine no way! Here God is showing us a HUGE change took place here when Adam sinned and he had a Son called Seth he was not created in the likeness of God but was created now in the likeness of his Father Adam.
What happened when sin entered into the world through Adam's transgression this means we all come from the loins of Adam what this means we all started out here by just one man called Adam. Now we can understand if God gives one understanding to see this basic foundational truth that in Adam ALL die but in Christ ALL shall be made alive.
Sabam, what I am sharing with is just basic knowledge most churches teach that we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God because of Adam sin we inherited this sin and this is why we need to be [BORN AGAIN] TO EVEN ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD IT IS A MUST PERIOD!
Now Saban, if you cannot get past this basic foundation how then can I go into deeper things of the word with you? I am sorry not being rude at all here with you but you have not gotten past the ABC of the very nature of how sin started in the world. Now I have shared these verses for you to look up either you never looked them up or God has not given you this basic understanding of how sin started into this world.
Saban, this is why you say [EVENTUALLY MAN DOES SIN] what your stating here is, you know very soon they will sin and here I am showing just how soon they end up in sin they are born and already infected with this sin nature you just do not see it work out right away but it does not take long to see little Tommy lie and tommy saying, he did not put his hand in that cooking jar, when he did. We try to teach our children to do right and it takes everything and they still miss it. You never have to teach a child to do wrong because it comes naturally to them because they are born in sin and in trespasses, Eph. 2:1, this is why we all need to come alive in Christ Jesus and this takes all the work and mercy and grace of God minus any man's work least he go a boasting which most will do. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Are you incapable of just answering a question?

My question was:

Can you confirm at what point a child is accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? Is it when they are old enough to understand and repent of their sin? When, Gary?

Instead...
You're re-using verses of scripture that I've already shown cannot mean what you've twisted them to say. We even read that one is not guilty of the sins of their father...

Little Tommy is born into a world full of sin, but Little Tommy is not born full of sin.

Ephesians 2 is Paul speaking to the church at Ephesus saying - "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts."

But you've said Eph. 2:1 says "because they [children] are B-O-R-N in sin and in trespasses.(emphasis mine).

You're adding to the Word, Gary. You want it to agree with YOUR doctrine.
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32724 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
It is not what saith you Gary.
What I say does not really mean a hill of beans Saban it is always what saith the word? This is where one will find truth it is not found in any mere man or church or creed it is only found by the word, for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word and also by the Spirit of God when He alone saves a person.
The person who is truly saved will believe God's word over man because the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The believer will have a humble, broken and a contrite heart, Psalm 51. He has a real reverential fear of the wrath of God knowing only what Jesus Christ did for him on the cross in 33 AD Jesus said, it is finished there is nothing one can add nor take away from what is finished, Heb. 9:26-29, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. God alone will make the believer truly examine himself to make sure his calling and election is sure, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Only the brethren can look into the mirror of God's word and truly examine himself by the word he will allow the word to correct, reprove, and to instruct him in the word, 2 Tim. 3:16, this is what the word should be doing in our life. However, sad to say most of these churches thinks they have arrived with there creeds and such this is why a Catholic remains a Catholic and the church of Christ remains the same and the protastants, and the Lutherns, Methodists, and on and on it goes nobody knows just how many different sects are out there claiming they have the truth the whole truth when all they have is the teaching of men in many of their teaching. They all think they need no more correction, reproof, or instruction, this is truly sad because they only go so far and stop. Most have no clue what the foundation of salvation is really all about sad to say and we can see this when I share the word with some here. However, some will write to me privately and they can see what the true nature of salvation is all about. There are many that reads these posts but do not comment but I know many can see just how far many have gone in these churches and such, many come on here and just want to show hate, backbiting, bitterness, and such none of this is from the fruit of the Spirit of God, Gal. 5:22-23, they will be exposed by the words we speak even Jesus said, I will not judge you but the words that I speak the same shall judge you. God puts His word very high and many want to triffle with the word and many do not want any correction when the fact is, we all need correction from time to time this is what seperates the believer for the non- believer. The believer at the end will always bow to the authority of the word yes he may fall seven times as the Bible declares yet shall he rise again only because of the mercy of God. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
The question was:
Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?

You didn't answer it above.

I know the answer to the question from the Word. You've offered to answer our questions based on your ability to understand "what our church won't tell us" therefore, I'll ask it again:

Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32725 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
I would like to take this time to share a few things.
1- This site is for those that are in the church who believe that their church has the truth. What I do is examine their church teaching and compare it with the word of God. Now many people read this site I know this for a fact because of the many private letters I will get.
2- We all only know in part and we declare in part, 1 Cor. 13. Some may think less of me because I believe this most basic truth but the true believer should always be growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth. In other words he will make correction from time to time from the word alone, 2 Tim. 3:16.
3- Most if not al the churches will not allow for any correction they already think that they have arrived. What they don't understand this exposes them of their haughty, prideful, arrogant, spirit thinking they are [know it all's], this is truly sad the Scribes and Pharisses of Jesus day thought the very same thing to the point they even added to the law of God as many churches are doing today.
4- This site is to help share with others what the church will not tell you. This is what this site is called it is for those believing they have the true gospel and they want to come here to test their churches doctrine with the test of the word of God will it stand the test?
5- Now I know many will get upset when shown just from the word of God that their church has strayed from the true gospel into a works gospel, they left the pure grace and mercy of God into a do it your self have it your way Mc Donald's self help gospel that will expose them at the end this is why it is so important to make sure we are on the right track.
6- Now I will admit from the start I am not perfect, I do not know it all I to am still on a learning curve as we all should be that is, growing in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. I sometimes need correction also by the word and when shown by the word where I am wrong by God's mercy I am very greatful because all that I want is truth and sometime this may take awhile because it must be on God's time table not mine.
7- Those that come on this site and just slander, mock, show hate, these people have no real interest in growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth all they want to do is stir up strif and trouble they are not content unless they do sad to say my heart truly goes out to some that show this kind of display because I know the trouble they are in with the Lord.
8- I fully understand that many will get upset on this site because what they have been taught by their church some are seeing it does not agree with the word of God at all in fact, some have a different gospel other than the true gospel. This is why I will spend the time if one is truly serious in arriving at truth.
9- I know it is only God that can break the pride of man, It had to happen to me and it still does from time to time we need correction and there should never be any pride involved here, Psalm 51.
10- Without the Spirit of God working in ones life there is no real hope at all. We need the correction by the word and the Spirit only the true believer can do this and only the true believer can worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23. Many think it takes the church to go to and worship the Father in Spirit and in truth when it is not some literal building. It must be by the word and the Spirit. Thank you. Gary
1. Good to know I can expose your false doctrine to many people.
2. They knew in part before that which is perfect had come.
3. Speaking of know it all's, Gary...
4. Which church? The church as founded by Christ does not believe the nonsense you teach because it is not biblically based. Oh, you grab scriptures, out of context, and use those same one's liberally. The problem is, the way in which you use them is easy to refute with other scriptures. You must learn to "rightly divide" the scriptures.
(Continued)
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32726 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry to say Saban, but better to know this now than later you are the one that is ABOLUTELY WRONG!

I can say this because your void of the word in your conclusion below as I said Saban, we need the word to correct and instruct one not your or my opinion. 2 Tim. 3:16.

1- You said, it is when we chose to be in Christ,,"

2 Here your wrong right from the start and it is very, very, easy to prove this just from the word.

3- Jesus said, you have not chosen me but I have chosen you,,,. Period! John 15:16

4- Saban, the reason why you cannot see this biblical fact is because you believe we are all born sinless.

God tells us He must accept us, read, Eph. 1:4-6. Jesus even made it more clear when He said, No man can come to me unless the Father which sent me draws him. Saban, you do not see this truth this is why when many heard Jesus say this truth many stopped to follow Him.

THE BIBLE DECLARES WHY? BECAUSE LIKE YOURSELF YOU WANT TO DO THE WORK OF ACCEPTING, CHOOSING, JESUS WHEN THE FACT IS, THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR THAT NO ONE WIL SEEK GOD ON HIS TERMS NO NOT ONE! ROM. 3:10-12 PERIOD! WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD IN SIN, EPH, 2:1

Saban, God does not add to His word when He says, ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. However, Saban wants to add [Eventually] all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This is why you will not quote the verse because it exposes your man made conclusion. However, out of true love and concern for your spiritual well being as a witness of the truth I must share with you that you cannot chose Jesus when you want the fact is, you cannot period! You cannot chose Him He must chose and accept you period!

"According as He hath CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Having PREDESTINATED us unto adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath MADE US ACCEPTED in the beloved." Eph. 1:4-6

Saban, now no matter what biblical proof I share with you it will be impossible as I said many times before and proven right every time you will not understand verses like these until God grants you repentance to see this truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. Please just the word not your opinion.

Saban, the word tells us that we must compare spiritual things with the spirit, 1 Cor. 2. Your looking at some literal building called the church for your help when the believers true comfort is by the word and the Spirit this is the true fellowship the word declares that is, my fellowship is with the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ and the way I have this fellowship when I listen to God's word teach me truth and when I pray for guidance and for truth. Your like the Scribes of old they put their trust also in the wonderful temples and such but the Lord exposed them and said this is dead men's bones. Thank you. Gary
Sabab fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The post this post of yours is replying to says I believe "I am stating babies are safe and covered by God's grace. Eventually THEIR sin separates them from God. When the ability to have an awareness of their sin develops they begin to be accountable to God for that sin. And they will all die in Adam because of sin but if they choose to be "in Christ" they can live everlasting in Heaven."
Yet you've assumed that "my conclusion" is I "want to believe the unborn were already born again."
Instead of making such ludicrous accusations, why don't you just ask instead.
You're ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Being "born again" is when we choose to be "in Christ". Being born again is when we become a Christian and a member of the Lord's body; the church. You have to have understanding in order to be born again into "newness of life".
Saban fan

Mobile, AL

#32727 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
I would like to take this time to share a few things.
1- This site is for those that are in the church who believe that their church has the truth. What I do is examine their church teaching and compare it with the word of God. Now many people read this site I know this for a fact because of the many private letters I will get.
2- We all only know in part and we declare in part, 1 Cor. 13. Some may think less of me because I believe this most basic truth but the true believer should always be growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth. In other words he will make correction from time to time from the word alone, 2 Tim. 3:16.
3- Most if not al the churches will not allow for any correction they already think that they have arrived. What they don't understand this exposes them of their haughty, prideful, arrogant, spirit thinking they are [know it all's], this is truly sad the Scribes and Pharisses of Jesus day thought the very same thing to the point they even added to the law of God as many churches are doing today.
(removed for length)
5- Now I know many will get upset when shown just from the word of God that their church has strayed from the true gospel into a works gospel, they left the pure grace and mercy of God into a do it your self have it your way Mc Donald's self help gospel that will expose them at the end this is why it is so important to make sure we are on the right track.
6- Now I will admit from the start I am not perfect, I do not know it all I to am still on a learning curve as we all should be that is, growing in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. I sometimes need correction also by the word and when shown by the word where I am wrong by God's mercy I am very greatful because all that I want is truth and sometime this may take awhile because it must be on God's time table not mine.
7- Those that come on this site and just slander, mock, show hate, these people have no real interest in growing in the grace and knowledge of the truth all they want to do is stir up strif and trouble they are not content unless they do sad to say my heart truly goes out to some that show this kind of display because I know the trouble they are in with the Lord.
8- I fully understand that many will get upset on this site because what they have been taught by their church some are seeing it does not agree with the word of God at all in fact, some have a different gospel other than the true gospel. This is why I will spend the time if one is truly serious in arriving at truth.
9- I know it is only God that can break the pride of man, It had to happen to me and it still does from time to time we need correction and there should never be any pride involved here, Psalm 51.
10- Without the Spirit of God working in ones life there is no real hope at all. We need the correction by the word and the Spirit only the true believer can do this and only the true believer can worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23. Many think it takes the church to go to and worship the Father in Spirit and in truth when it is not some literal building. It must be by the word and the Spirit. Thank you. Gary
5. Explain the "right track". How do I "obey the gospel" as instructed to do in 2 Thess.?
6. You've not demonstrated this yet.
7. Just exposing error, Gary.
8. Not so much upset as just a desire to teach the truth.
9. Your pride has been broken? The "sad to says" don't camouflage the pride so well, Gary.
10. How can someone know if they are a true believer verses a fake believer?
Additionally, we all know the church is not a building. But it does not give us license to "forsake the assembly". We are to worship with other Christians, partake of the Lord's Supper on the 1st day of the week etc.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32728 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Saban:
I undrstan you believe I am wrong. However, you come void of the word for proof below.
1- Fact, we cannot chose Christ He must chose us, Eph. 1:4-6, Rom. 9:11-24, John 16:15, Jesus said so plain you have NOT CHOSEN me but I have chosen you.
2- Fact, the reason why we cannot chose God on His terms because we are all born dead in sin, Eph. 2:1, Romans 3:10-12, God tells us ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
3- Saban, you still do not want to quote this scripture because you want to add to the word by putting [Eventually ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This is an out right distortion of the truth.
4- The building you call the church cannot save anyone the true church is wherever the true body of believers are who only worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23. Your trust is in your church denomination and building you attend this is your church that is building the foundation sad to say on sand.

5- Please come with the word not your opinion you are showing a very low view of the power of the word Saban sad to say because your lacking in any proof from the word. Saban, it is the word that must set the captives free Jesus said once you know the truth, the truth will set you free, my word is truth. Jesus is telling all of us not to trust in what we think in what salvation is or what our church is telling us no way! We must put all our trust on the word and only the Lord can make His word real to you enough that you will believe those many verses from His word to trust instead of mere man. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Sabab fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The post this post of yours is replying to says I believe "I am stating babies are safe and covered by God's grace. Eventually THEIR sin separates them from God. When the ability to have an awareness of their sin develops they begin to be accountable to God for that sin. And they will all die in Adam because of sin but if they choose to be "in Christ" they can live everlasting in Heaven."
Yet you've assumed that "my conclusion" is I "want to believe the unborn were already born again."
Instead of making such ludicrous accusations, why don't you just ask instead.
You're ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Being "born again" is when we choose to be "in Christ". Being born again is when we become a Christian and a member of the Lord's body; the church. You have to have understanding in order to be born again into "newness of life".
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32729 Aug 6, 2013
Dear all:

I understand when I share the word with some they will not like it, the sad fact is, they do not really lash out at me so I never take this personally. However, who they are lashing out is at the power of the word. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Crist for it is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first and also to the gentile, the word tell us in, Romans 1:16.

What many do out of frustration an I understand that is, they will have this uncontroalable slap tic, knee jerk reaction and snap and lash out and they will try to make this into a personal matter by pointing to the person trying to deflect from the power of the word. I hope the best for all here truly I do. Thank you. Gary
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32730 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Saban:

Question, what denomination church do you attend that you believe has the full truth? I hope your not ashamed in saying because I know where many of them stand in doctrine. You have already said what they believe and I believe it maybe the [church of Christ] or some church closely tied into this teaching. Thank you. Gary
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry to say Saban, but better to know this now than later you are the one that is ABOLUTELY WRONG!
I can say this because your void of the word in your conclusion below as I said Saban, we need the word to correct and instruct one not your or my opinion. 2 Tim. 3:16.
1- You said, it is when we chose to be in Christ,,"
2 Here your wrong right from the start and it is very, very, easy to prove this just from the word.
3- Jesus said, you have not chosen me but I have chosen you,,,. Period! John 15:16
4- Saban, the reason why you cannot see this biblical fact is because you believe we are all born sinless.
God tells us He must accept us, read, Eph. 1:4-6. Jesus even made it more clear when He said, No man can come to me unless the Father which sent me draws him. Saban, you do not see this truth this is why when many heard Jesus say this truth many stopped to follow Him.
THE BIBLE DECLARES WHY? BECAUSE LIKE YOURSELF YOU WANT TO DO THE WORK OF ACCEPTING, CHOOSING, JESUS WHEN THE FACT IS, THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR THAT NO ONE WIL SEEK GOD ON HIS TERMS NO NOT ONE! ROM. 3:10-12 PERIOD! WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD IN SIN, EPH, 2:1
Saban, God does not add to His word when He says, ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. However, Saban wants to add [Eventually] all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This is why you will not quote the verse because it exposes your man made conclusion. However, out of true love and concern for your spiritual well being as a witness of the truth I must share with you that you cannot chose Jesus when you want the fact is, you cannot period! You cannot chose Him He must chose and accept you period!
"According as He hath CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Having PREDESTINATED us unto adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath MADE US ACCEPTED in the beloved." Eph. 1:4-6
Saban, now no matter what biblical proof I share with you it will be impossible as I said many times before and proven right every time you will not understand verses like these until God grants you repentance to see this truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. Please just the word not your opinion.
Saban, the word tells us that we must compare spiritual things with the spirit, 1 Cor. 2. Your looking at some literal building called the church for your help when the believers true comfort is by the word and the Spirit this is the true fellowship the word declares that is, my fellowship is with the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ and the way I have this fellowship when I listen to God's word teach me truth and when I pray for guidance and for truth. Your like the Scribes of old they put their trust also in the wonderful temples and such but the Lord exposed them and said this is dead men's bones. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32731 Aug 6, 2013
Gary wrote:
1- Fact, we cannot chose Christ He must chose us, Eph. 1:4-6, Rom. 9:11-24, John 16:15, Jesus said so plain you have NOT CHOSEN me but I have chosen you.

<quoted text>
"Fact?"

Odd as it seems, why do you so-called "Christians" always ask for followers to come to your church, or in the Catholic eyes "come home"....IF.....Jesus chooses us.

You've just been proven that you don't know what Jesus teaches.

Thus, it is plausible to also say that you don't know what your church teaches, and if you think you do, it is wrong.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32732 Aug 6, 2013
Hi Saban:

You question, can you confirm when [the child] is accountable to their sin?

Answer: Just the word, this alone confirms truth period! The test is on man if they will believe God's word or say He is wrong and my church is right.

"The wicked are estranged FROM THE WOMB; THEY GO ASTRAY AS SOON AS THEY ARE BORN, SPEAKING LIES." Psalms 58:3

Thank you, can we take the next question please? Gary 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The question was:
Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?
You didn't answer it above.
I know the answer to the question from the Word. You've offered to answer our questions based on your ability to understand "what our church won't tell us" therefore, I'll ask it again:
Gary, you've mentioned you believe children in the womb are sinful. If you still believe this, can you confirm at what point they are accountable to God for their sin? Is it conception? Is it birth? What say you, Gary?

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