Thank you.<quoted text>
He did disclose from whence his cite came: WYC.
But for clarity, let's look at all the major translations:
New International Version
When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.
New Living Translation
The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognized them as men who had been with Jesus.
English Standard Version
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.
New American Standard Bible
Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.
King James Bible
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
When they observed the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and recognized that they had been with Jesus.
International Standard Version
Now when the Jewish leaders saw the boldness of Peter and John and found out that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were amazed and realized that they had been with Jesus.
When they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and discovered that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were amazed and recognized these men had been with Jesus.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when they had heard the discourse of Shimeon and of Yohannan, that they spoke it openly, they perceived that they did not know the scrolls and that they were uneducated, and they were amazed at them and recognized them that they had lived with Yeshua.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
After they found out that Peter and John had no education or special training, they were surprised to see how boldly they spoke. They realized that these men had been with Jesus.
King James 2000 Bible
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ordinary men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
American King James Version
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
American Standard Version
Now when they beheld the boldness of Peter and John, and had perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Now seeing the constancy of Peter and of John, understanding that they were illiterate and ignorant men, they wondered; and they knew them that they had been with Jesus.
Darby Bible Translation
But seeing the boldness of Peter and John, and perceiving that they were unlettered and uninstructed men, they wondered; and they recognised them that they were with Jesus.
I had to delete the last few entries to meet Topix's limits on post length.
And by the way, he does not have to believe that; he merely has to point out that it is part of your scripture.
Since: Mar 08
#32672 Aug 4, 2013
Since: Mar 08
#32673 Aug 4, 2013
This thread will go on but you will never. Folks are not going to leave a thread just because of a buffoon.
This thread is like the Brook. "For men may come and men go but I go on forever".
You may relieve yourself now. lol!
Since: Jul 08
#32674 Aug 4, 2013
I'm surprised we have not run into each other before.
“Turn left at pub Number 42”
Since: Dec 08
#32675 Aug 4, 2013
Go to the Islam forum where you will find BMZ defending the Quran and Islam as the truth and all the others are false.
Not sure how it works.Proving the Bible wrong while the Quran plagiarizes from the same sources/desert Gods.
Since: Mar 08
#32676 Aug 5, 2013
AussieBobby was quick to introduce me. ;)
I write mostly on the thread: "Who is Allah?" , where I deal with hardcore polemic Christians, who are extremely allergic to Allah, an Arabic work for God.
I had invited some of them to write on threads like this, where the discussions are mostly civil but I feel they dare not.
Since: Mar 08
#32677 Aug 5, 2013
When Qur'aan talks about Abraham, others, Moses and Jesus, that cannot be considered plagiarism, Bobby.
Qur'aan rejects, refutes and condemns the Trinity or the Triune God, the Son of God and denies that Jesus was crucified and the question of Jesus' alleged resurrection, does not arise.
If Jesus had really died and had been really resurrected, he would not have remained in hiding and moving in disguise. He would have made a Triumphal Grand Re-Entry into Jerusalem and would have shown himself to his alleged killers. Pilate and San Hedrin would have dropped dead!
If Qur'aan had agreed with Christianity and her man-made doctrines, it would have then said the same things and only then you could have accused Qur'aan of plagiarism.
Does Qur'aan include anything absurd as Genesis 12:11-14, Genesis 20, Genesis 38 and other stories of the New Testament?
You will find no Judges, no Numbers, no Mark, no Matthew, no Luke, no John, no Paul, no Peter, no Revelation and nothing from other Toms, Dicks and Harries of the Church in Qur'aan.
So, how can you say that Qur'aan plagiarized the nonsense?
#32678 Aug 5, 2013
Answer to your 1st question: I know what I'm saying. Do you understand yet what I'm saying? Can you place ALL of these Biblical events on a timeline and see that you are negating the entrance into the Kingdom based on scripture that was recorded of events PRIOR to the Kingdom being in place.
Answer to your second question: you, Gary, heard what you wanted to hear. I've noticed you're prone to do this. You were caught red-handed doing it one time. If you'll go back and take a look at what I've actually said you'll see you are wrong.
Answer to your third question: I'm not adding to anything. The WAY Jesus makes us spiritually clean is baptism (Acts 2:38). This is the entrance into the Kingdom. This is where He ADDS us to the church. It is the ONE baptism Paul teaches.
If I stopped short of teaching the way into the Kingdom I would be teaching false doctrine.
Answer to your 4th question have I really read Acts 1? Yes! I have and it does NOT say what you've quoted the verse as saying. You say from this verse that "we" are to be baptized with Holy Spirit baptism. We're you there when the Apostles were instructed to wait in Jerusalem? Point is, that baptism was for them. You and me are not the subjects being spoken to. See:
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father,which, He said,you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
THEY shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. You weren't there, Gary!!
The statement you made in the earlier post about Acts 1 was completely false.
A word study of the Spirit tells me that WE today receive the Holy Spirit during baptism into Christ for the remission of sins
"Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles,Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said to them,Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
#32679 Aug 5, 2013
It is no game. It is called debate. You think you are correct. I think you are dead wrong. You've said you were willing to answer my questions. All I'm doing is asking questions. Yes, I DO KNOW that the questions I'm asking are eventually going to point out YOUR ERROR.
If you think it is now a "merry go round" & "waste of time", perhaps it is you that is getting "frustrated" & "childish".
I do not believe you have answered the question I'll ask again below. I know you give the same lines over and over in each of your posts but you haven't directly answered THIS question:
1 Peter 1:22 says "Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently."
I have taught to purify your souls means to have your sins forgiven. According to this verse I would also teach that they did this by obedience to truth. At the time their sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38) they are added to the church (Acts 2:41) and become brethren one with another.
Thus my question is:
IF ONE IS PURIFIED BY OBEYING THE TRUTH IT LOOKS AS IF THE ONE BEING PURIFIED HAS FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS. WHAT INSTRUCTIONS HAS THE PURIFIED ONE FOLLOWED IN ORDER TO BE PURIFIED?
a. to wait in Jerusalem (Acts 1)
b. being born predestined for eternal life in Heaven
c. baptism into Christ for remission of sins (Acts 2)
d. none of the above
if d. elaborate...
#32680 Aug 5, 2013
OK. I can't force you to have faith. Christianity is not that type of religion.
Sowing the seed (the Word) is my duty. Allowing you freedom to accept it or deny it as you wish is the beauty of Christianity.
#32681 Aug 5, 2013
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life(John 3:13-15). In this passage, Jesus issued four unmitigated affirmations of His divine identity:(1) He claims to have come from heaven,(2) He claims to be an eternal resident of that heavenly realm,(3) He further claims that He is the source of healing comparable to the snake on the pole in Numbers 21, and (4) He claims that in order for a person to have eternal life and thereby avoid perishing, that person must believe in Him.
The expression son of man occurs only one time in the Old Testament to refer exclusively to Jesus, the Messiah: Daniel 7:13. Herein likely lies the deeper significance of Jesus use of the term. It is to this verse that Jesus linked Himself when He came to Earth:
I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed (Daniel 7:13-14).
Son of God?
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them,Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:18-26).
#32682 Aug 5, 2013
the scriptures are inspired. David was writing by the Spirit. If by the Spirit someone "cuts & pastes" Spirit-led writings it is not "plagiarism".
#32683 Aug 5, 2013
Jesus' claims to Deity:
#32684 Aug 5, 2013
Yet again, the question I asked:
Does God's grace cover the non-born again child?
goes essentially unanswered.
to answer your question about Psalm 58 and it not telling us it is hyperbole...
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
4 Their venom is like the venom of a snake,
like that of a cobra that has stopped its ears,
5 that will not heed the tune of the charmer,
however skillful the enchanter may be.
6 Break the teeth in their mouths, O God;
Lord, tear out the fangs of those lions!
7 Let them vanish like water that flows away;
when they draw the bow, let their arrows fall short.
8 May they be like a slug that melts away as it moves along,
like a stillborn child that never sees the sun.
9 Before your pots can feel the heat of the thorns
whether they be green or drythe wicked will be swept away.
10 The righteous will be glad when they are avenged,
when they dip their feet in the blood of the wicked.
11 Then people will say,
Surely the righteous still are rewarded;
surely there is a God who judges the earth.
GARY, if not hyperbole:
1. from the womb they spread lies to whom?
2. who has detected infant venom? To what is it poisonous?
3. isn't a cobra's venom very lethal to all/most mammals?
4. The fangs like lions, are they just while the baby is in the womb?
5. Have you seen a newborn draw a bow? Does a child in the womb come with a bow?
I am stating babies are safe and covered by God's grace. Eventually THEIR sin separates them from God. When the ability to have an awareness of their sin develops they begin to be accountable to God for that sin. And they will all die in Adam because of sin but if they choose to be "in Christ" they can live everlasting in Heaven.
Since: Mar 08
#32685 Aug 5, 2013
That is fine. No worries.
#32686 Aug 5, 2013
Just to make sure we don't get caught up in a back and forth on one or two questions, I've made an inventory of unanswered question from the past two days. Feel free to answer in as many posts as you wish. I look forward to your answers!
1. We are to "obey the gospel" as we've been instructed we must do in 2 Thessalonians. We wouldn't know about these instructions had it not been for the Spirit and the Word. Right?
2. Which infant conversion are you going to point me to?
3. Does God's grace not cover the unlearned child?
4. Jesus said Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you (Matthew 28:19,20).
Sounds like "WORK" to me Gary. Do you recommend we ignore this commandment?
Which portion would be considered works and which portions would not be considered works?
5. If one is purified by obeying the truth (1 Pet. 1:22) it looks as if the one being purified has followed instructions. What instructions has the purified one followed in order to be purified?
6. I was baptized the same way the Eunuch was baptized by Philip. Did they get it wrong?
7. Did the scriptures say Jesus baptized Peter's feet?
If Psalm 58 is not hyperbole:
8. from the womb they spread lies to whom?
9. who has detected infant venom? To what is it poisonous?
10. isn't a cobra's venom very lethal to all/most mammals?
11. The fangs like lions, are they just while the baby is in the womb?
12. Have you seen a newborn draw a bow? Does a child in the womb come with a bow as an accessory?
Since: Mar 08
#32687 Aug 5, 2013
Jesus claimed this and Jesus claimed that, carries no weight.
What matters is what he declared?
And we do not see him declaring from his own mouth in integrity, anything such as "I am the son of God" or "I am God in person" or "I am God".
Jesus is not on record for making any statement claimed for him, himself. That is the point.
You wrote and I quote: "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God."
Interesting! God was only his Father? God was everybody's Father then.
Jesus never said, "God is my father". Writing His Father does not make God his father and neither does the capital H in his, makes him God.
However, he also said this to Mary (john 20:17), when she had wanted to cling to him but he stopped her:
"Go instead to my brothers and tell them,I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
Why not make Mary and the disciples (his brothers) Gods too?
Since: Mar 08
#32688 Aug 5, 2013
About the son of man.
"Son of man", in Semitic languages Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic and other Oriental languages simply means "man".
Even today, it is very frequently used in those languages.
The writers of the New Testament have reserved it exclusively for Jesus by writing it as the Son of Man.
Can we call Jesus, MacGod, the Scottish way?
Interesting footnote, courtesy BibleGateway:
New International Version (NIV)
13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13 The Aramaic phrase bar enash means human being. The phrase son of man is retained here because of its use in the New Testament as a title of Jesus, probably based largely on this verse."
#32689 Aug 5, 2013
I am sorry but you do not realize that the whole of the Bible is a spiritual book and only those that are born of the word and the Spirit can look for the spiritual meaning. In Psam 58:1-6 God gives us ugly pictures of sin as a poisonus snake that has deadly poison in their fangs this is a picture of the terrible sin nature that we are all inficted with from the womb on up. You never have to teach a child to be bad they start from the womb wanting their own way and as they get a little older they get worse because they cannot help it they are born speaking lies those verses says as soon as they could they will want their way as any unbeliever they want a do it your self have it your way self help gospel this is also deadly poison spiritually speaking.
This is why I was able to share all the other verses showing that we are dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, and that there is none that will seek after God no not one! Romans 3:1-12,
1= QUESTION, WHEN GOD DESTROYED THE FLOOD WITH ALL THE PEOPLE LEFT FOR JUDGMENT BEHIND WHERE THERE MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN AND BABIES LEFT BEHIND? YES,
2- WHEN GOD DESTROYED THE CITIES OF Sodom WAS THERE MEN WOMAN AND BABIES LEFT BEHIND? YES!
3= Now the fact is a baby is not born [born again] they are just born with a soul like the rest of us where does it state anywhere in the Bible that a baby in the womb or just born is called [born again?] If that was the case Nicudemus should not have been corrected by Jesus when he said should I go back in the womb and be born again? Jesus said, what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit marvel not you must be BORN AGAIN.
Now Saban you want to add to God's word and say that the baby is born again when he is born where does it state this?
You see sad to say Saban you do not understand the core foundation of the nature of mankind that they are wicked this is why God destroyed the world in a flood except for Noah and his family there were many unsaved babies under the judgment in this flood. You will not bow to the word of God unless God humbles you to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. I hope in time you will see by God's mercy what is the true salvation plan of God. Thank you. Gary
“What are you looking at?”
Since: Jan 08
#32690 Aug 5, 2013
The core foundation of the nature of mankind is not that we are wicked.
Why do you think this?
The majority of people on this planet are not wicked, and try to eliminate those tendencies from our life.
Please stop projecting you own "wicked faults" upon others.
Live in love.
#32691 Aug 5, 2013
And the difference in claiming and declaring is??
He didn't write anything in scripture.
He was the only human who was not fathered by a human. This should answer you last question.
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