What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32573 Aug 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Gospel" of salvation?
8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
John 10:9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
What is Salvation?
From Gal. 3:

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32574 Aug 3, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saba:
I am sorry but we are not playing dodge ball here. I asked you before if you have one or two questions I will be glad to answer them Lord willing.
However, all that your doing is reflecting my points and answers and questions I gave you. Now Saban, you may not liked my answers and I understand because it goes against your churches teaching and I fully understand everything must be first filtered through your church to get the OK.
The fact is, in your post you never asked me just one question here below this was your chance and you did not take advantage of this because you know you do not like the biblical answer to your questions Saban and I fully understand this because your trusting more in your church than in the word sad, so sad to say this but it is the fact.
Now SABAN, WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION PLEASE JUST ONE NOT 15 AT THE SAME TIME I TOLD YOU BEFORE JUST ONE AND AT THE MOST TWO QUESTIONS SO I CAN GO INTO BIBLICAL DETAIL TO ANSWER THEM, NOT WHAT I THINK NO WAY! NOT MY OPINION NO WAY! JUST THE WORD OF GOD.
Saban, have you read Luke 24 yet? Did you see how God opens one understanding? Can you share with us here? Just from the word please. Thank you. Gary 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
Yes, I have read Luke 24 and I have responded.

I have not yet found Gary 3:13-15, but I think it says "and behold thou baptism wast a work of the flesh for which thou shalt surely burn eternally thus sayeth The Lord"

Yet AGAIN Gary, it is not my church.

It is proving easy for you to find posts where I did not ask you a question and you point out to me how I missed my chance to do so. It wouldn't be too tough to find a post where I did actually ask a question and you just go ahead and knock the proverbial softball out of the park would it?

That is yet to be seen... I figure you'll continue commenting on my posts that ask no questions and continue to ignore the ones that do.

Your beginning to be very predictable, Gary.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32575 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
In Matt. 3 Jesus tells us why he's to be baptized; to fulfill all righteousness.
He took our sins to the cross and settled the debt God's people owed once and for all. Even as he lived the perfect life and was the perfect lamb laying his life down for us, the sins of God's people were laid upon Him at the cross.
The question you ask is a good one - Why must he be baptized by John's baptism for remission of sins? Was it to cover him in God's grace after my sin was cast upon him??
One thing we know for sure, baptism into Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:27) for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) was not yet possible because Jesus had not yet died for us. John's baptism prepared the way, but later in the scriptures was considered something to have been practiced in the past not from then forward and was no longer valid (Acts 18:24; 19:5). John's baptism was transitional in nature preparing Jews for their Messiah.
Simply put, Jesus' baptism had the unique purpose of "fulfilling all righteousness". Jesus' baptism was an exception to the rule. It shows us no one is exempt from submitting to God's rule and it was God's means for pinpointing to the world the precise identity of His Son.
Baptism after the cross is for ALL people (Matt. 28:19), in Jesus' name (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, 19:5), into his death (Rom. 6:3), in order to be clothed with Him (Gal. 3:27), and added to His church (Acts 2:47, 1 Cor.12:13). This is desperate and apart from John's baptism.
Last sentence should've been separate instead of desperate. Spell check can be helpful sometimes but not all the time.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32576 Aug 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
What Gospel? There was no written Gospel.
The Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The letters Paul wrote to the churches were written to a people who had already heard the message of the Gospel, believed it, repented of their sin, confessed Jesus was the Son of God and had been baptized, obeying the Gospel, for the remission of sin. They had been taught this Gospel of Christ by Jesus' disciples. Paul was just giving them instruction on how to be the church and Christians God wanted them to be. He knew their issues in the individual churches and he delivered messages to them that they needed to hear and that we today can also learn from. It is instruction from the Spirit through Paul.

Back then the Apostles who had received Holy Spirit Baptism directly from God could perform many miracles to confirm that the message they taught was directly from God. This is something they had to be able to do to confirm the message and to get the message of the Gospel spread about - since there was no written Word.

Once we did have the written Word in place, "that which is perfect", the signs and miracles "that which was in part" were no longer necessary and vanished away. Those abilities were what made their baptism so different from the one they taught and we submit to today. The problem and confusion comes about when people like Gary think they receive the same baptism the Apostles did. They didn't. It has come and gone. Paul confirmed such in his letter to the Ephesians when he said there is ONE baptism.

Don't trust me on this - study it yourself. You will see I'm correct. I'm not leading anyone astray.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32577 Aug 3, 2013
Hi Saban:

I can understand your frustration. However, your wrong, water baptism has nothing at all to do with the salvation work of God nothing! I shared verse after verse with you and now you said in your past post I never answer your questions but this is all just a ploy because I said if you have one or two questions please ask and Lord willing I will answer your question thus far nothing!

All that I have shared with you Saban as you said the so called [charges] were to show you by the word where your wrong that's
all and I understand you did not like this.

Al that you have to say about Luke 24 is baptism? I showed you in this chapter that God must give one understanding He must open up their eyes, this is why you cannot understand the verses I have already shared with you Saban, and I fully understand that is, God has not given you understanding to see that we are not saved by works least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. Saban, you want to boast in your work of baptism because you believe getting dunked into a pool of water this has power to make you saved because as you said if one is not water dunked it cannot be sprinkled that won't do according to you and all the modes you went into straining at a net to swallow a camel sad to say to teach you must be dunked in water baptized to make sure your saved.

Saban, the fact is, the woman at the well did not get dunked into water when Jesus said I will give you living water this means the true gospel that flows out of a believer when applied by the Spirit of God. Same thing with Peter was Peter dunked? Who had to wash Peter? Saban, I could go on and on you admit I asked you many questions but none of them were answered according to the word all you did is give your opinion here and that really does not mean a hill of beans the word and the Spirit saved alone fact! You used to believe this I thought but you kept on adding, then saying we are not born in sin? All this tells me Saban you need the milk of the word this is why we cannot even go into any meat of the word your hung up on what your church is teaching if they believe water saves and we are not born sinners then this is not the church that Christ built. Better to know this now than later. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I read Luke 24. FYI Christ's church did not yet exist at that time. Therefore, during a time it did not exist any reference to the entrance into the church would be prophesy. Correct? There's the answer to the question you asked in this post. Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom, and He announced such in Acts 2.
When we "rightly divide" scripture it's not so confusing, Gary.
I've shown you the 1st Century Greek meaning of baptizo was immersion.
I've asked one or two questions of you in several posts that have been ignored. I think I answered about 8 charges you made yesterday in one of your posts!!! If only you did actually ask one to two questions each!!! LOL
I am beyond disgusted in your continual barrage about your believing I think there's something special about the water when I've corrected you on that point probably 10 times. It is dishonest for you to continue to place me in that box I don't fit within. The exact same can be said in your continual use of "your church". It's shameful, Gary.
Speaking of verses vs. opinions, in my post previous to this one, I posted verses that contradict you.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32578 Aug 3, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
yea yea yea
who told you this?
you even have not clue what word BIBLE means?
Jesus is said to have rolled up the Scroll which would have been the Hebrew Scripture. The Gospels make no mention of Jesus speaking of a Bible. In fact, Jesus rebukes the scribes.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32579 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
From Gal. 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
... Paul's opinion.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32580 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The letters Paul wrote to the churches were written to a people who had already heard the message of the Gospel, believed it, repented of their sin, confessed Jesus was the Son of God and had been baptized, obeying the Gospel, for the remission of sin. They had been taught this Gospel of Christ by Jesus' disciples. Paul was just giving them instruction on how to be the church and Christians God wanted them to be. He knew their issues in the individual churches and he delivered messages to them that they needed to hear and that we today can also learn from. It is instruction from the Spirit through Paul.
Back then the Apostles who had received Holy Spirit Baptism directly from God could perform many miracles to confirm that the message they taught was directly from God. This is something they had to be able to do to confirm the message and to get the message of the Gospel spread about - since there was no written Word.
Once we did have the written Word in place, "that which is perfect", the signs and miracles "that which was in part" were no longer necessary and vanished away. Those abilities were what made their baptism so different from the one they taught and we submit to today. The problem and confusion comes about when people like Gary think they receive the same baptism the Apostles did. They didn't. It has come and gone. Paul confirmed such in his letter to the Ephesians when he said there is ONE baptism.
Don't trust me on this - study it yourself. You will see I'm correct. I'm not leading anyone astray.
The Gospel of Matthew is much more than that is it not? Jesus is much more than salvation.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32581 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
From Gal. 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
If a person were to be justified simply by following the Law, then Jesus died for nothing. Even Paul says that.

Romans 3:28
New International Version (NIV)
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Galatians 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 5:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32582 Aug 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gospel of Matthew is much more than that is it not? Jesus is much more than salvation.
It is Matthew's writings about the Gospel, telling the story of Jesus. Basically that is what the gospel is - the story of Jesus. When we obey the gospel we do as Jesus did for us; bury our sins on the watery grave of baptism to rise again in a new birth as a new creature to walk in newness of life, a member of His church, a citizen of His Kingdom.

Jesus is and should be our example and without Him and His sacrifice we would have no hope of Salvation.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32583 Aug 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
... Paul's opinion.
Peter himself said Paul's writing was inspired. If true, God's opinion.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32584 Aug 3, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I can understand your frustration. However, your wrong, water baptism has nothing at all to do with the salvation work of God nothing! I shared verse after verse with you and now you said in your past post I never answer your questions but this is all just a ploy because I said if you have one or two questions please ask and Lord willing I will answer your question thus far nothing!
All that I have shared with you Saban as you said the so called [charges] were to show you by the word where your wrong that's
all and I understand you did not like this.
Al that you have to say about Luke 24 is baptism? I showed you in this chapter that God must give one understanding He must open up their eyes, this is why you cannot understand the verses I have already shared with you Saban, and I fully understand that is, God has not given you understanding to see that we are not saved by works least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. Saban, you want to boast in your work of baptism because you believe getting dunked into a pool of water this has power to make you saved because as you said if one is not water dunked it cannot be sprinkled that won't do according to you and all the modes you went into straining at a net to swallow a camel sad to say to teach you must be dunked in water baptized to make sure your saved.
Saban, the fact is, the woman at the well did not get dunked into water when Jesus said I will give you living water this means the true gospel that flows out of a believer when applied by the Spirit of God. Same thing with Peter was Peter dunked? Who had to wash Peter? Saban, I could go on and on you admit I asked you many questions but none of them were answered according to the word all you did is give your opinion here and that really does not mean a hill of beans the word and the Spirit saved alone fact! You used to believe this I thought but you kept on adding, then saying we are not born in sin? All this tells me Saban you need the milk of the word this is why we cannot even go into any meat of the word your hung up on what your church is teaching if they believe water saves and we are not born sinners then this is not the church that Christ built. Better to know this now than later. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
So you are going to make me go back and go through all the posts with questions you've skipped over rather than taking the look yourself. I forgot you didn't like "works".

Once again, its not my church, Gary. You should be ashamed!

Once again, I/we don't believe water saves, Gary. These are beginning to be very tired lines and your dishonesty for pounding and pounding those lines after I've said over and over I don't believe it is incredible!

We have no absolute proof those people (the woman at the well/Peter etc.) weren't baptized eventually into Christ. Peter received Holy Spirit baptism and could speak in tongues and perform miracles from that point on. But what you can't seem to understand based on each of your examples is that the church and the entrance into the church through Christ had not happened yet. You OBVIOUSLY are not a workman and cannot rightly divide the Word and you should be ashamed.

I don't boast of baptism. It's simple. Anyone can do it. I boast of Jesus Christ and the work he can do in you and others in baptism.
Chess Jurist

Columbus, OH

#32586 Aug 3, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I can understand your frustration. However, your wrong, water baptism has nothing at all to do with the salvation work of God nothing! I shared verse after verse with you and now you said in your past post I never answer your questions but this is all just a ploy because I said if you have one or two questions please ask and Lord willing I will answer your question thus far nothing!
All that I have shared with you Saban as you said the so called [charges] were to show you by the word where your wrong that's
all and I understand you did not like this.
Al that you have to say about Luke 24 is baptism? I showed you in this chapter that God must give one understanding He must open up their eyes, this is why you cannot understand the verses I have already shared with you Saban, and I fully understand that is, God has not given you understanding to see that we are not saved by works least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. Saban, you want to boast in your work of baptism because you believe getting dunked into a pool of water this has power to make you saved because as you said if one is not water dunked it cannot be sprinkled that won't do according to you and all the modes you went into straining at a net to swallow a camel sad to say to teach you must be dunked in water baptized to make sure your saved.
Saban, the fact is, the woman at the well did not get dunked into water when Jesus said I will give you living water this means the true gospel that flows out of a believer when applied by the Spirit of God. Same thing with Peter was Peter dunked? Who had to wash Peter? Saban, I could go on and on you admit I asked you many questions but none of them were answered according to the word all you did is give your opinion here and that really does not mean a hill of beans the word and the Spirit saved alone fact! You used to believe this I thought but you kept on adding, then saying we are not born in sin? All this tells me Saban you need the milk of the word this is why we cannot even go into any meat of the word your hung up on what your church is teaching if they believe water saves and we are not born sinners then this is not the church that Christ built. Better to know this now than later. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
Hey, Dary, how'd that whole Harold Camping thing work out for you?

Harold set yet another date?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32589 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
It is Matthew's writings about the Gospel, telling the story of Jesus. Basically that is what the gospel is - the story of Jesus. When we obey the gospel we do as Jesus did for us; bury our sins on the watery grave of baptism to rise again in a new birth as a new creature to walk in newness of life, a member of His church, a citizen of His Kingdom.
Jesus is and should be our example and without Him and His sacrifice we would have no hope of Salvation.
Sure, that's one way to look at it. Another is too look at the whole concept of sin. One such concept describes sin as separation from God. In other words, we either move in the direction of God or away from God. Repentance simply means changing one's direction. No man goes through an entire day moving only in the direction of God. Jesus speaks in the Gospels of the two greatest commandments. Following these commandments brings us closer to God does it not? Obedience means following these two commandments.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32590 Aug 3, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
whorever
keep this to yoursleves
not all scribes Jesus Rebuked, AND PLEASE ?LEARN BASIC CARNAL THINGS IN BIBLE,
not for me,only for yourselves and stop spreading BS
Please follow you own advice by setting a good example for others.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32591 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter himself said Paul's writing was inspired. If true, God's opinion.
Circular reasoning. The Bible does not prove the Bible.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#32592 Aug 3, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter himself said Paul's writing was inspired. If true, God's opinion.
Incorrect.

2 Peter is a pseudograph.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#32593 Aug 3, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
Incorrect.

2 Peter is a pseudograph.
Correct.

Peter, according to Acts, was unschooled. So, an illiterate could not have written anything.

Also, there were no writings or a gospel from Paul that Peter could read. Paul wrote letter to various folks. So, Peter could not have read any of his letters.

It is reported by scholars that even half of Paul's letters were not written by Paul.

For example, Hebrews was not written by Paul.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#32594 Aug 3, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
whorever ,you can rewrite own Bible, who cares
The Torah is not written by you,or NEVIM
Pele joez El Gibbor is mighty god( not YAHVEH OF OT,
YOU REJECT ON BEGINING OF YOUR POST,BY THE END OWN EXPLANATION CONTRADICT YOUR BS
if God call His own adopted children gods, Psalm 82;1,6 also EL GIBOR IS OUR GOD ,OUR GOD(EL GIBOR) EMANUEL, EMANUEL means to us,He IS THE WAY THE DOOR AND THE SALVATION,ALLOWING TO ENTER ETERNAL BLESSING OF HIS FATHER G-D EL SHADDAI( THIS DOESN'T MEAN TO EL GIBOR)
EL SHADDAI is Ancient of the days Reaza MA HAVA EL YHVH
is Most greater and most misterious EL SHADDAI HA SHEME YAHVEH,
ANCIENT OF DAYS IS TO GREAT,TO MAJESTIC, TO MARVELOUS, AND TO SUPREME ABOVE WHOLE CREATIONS TO HAVE DIRECT CONTACT WITH HUMAN CREATION
I don't care you and your sect teachings,
having nothing to do with Eternal Truth Written on the stone tablets of High Heavens(SHAMAYA)
YOU bmz ARE NOT GOD,ONLY SERVANT OF DEVIL
I like coherent posts, Doc. Can you try to be coherent, please. Mumbo Jumbo and gibberish, I hate.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#32595 Aug 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Circular reasoning. The Bible does not prove the Bible.
Even the three synoptic gospels do not agree with John.

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