What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32401 Jul 29, 2013
Hi Saban:

I understand your frustration truly I do. The problem is, I do answer your questions but you just cannot see where I am coming from you want to hold dearly to just the mode of baptism and not see the real spiritual meaning that one must be baptized by God the Holy Spirit for one to be saved you used to believe this your self when you said you were saved by the word and the Spirit.

Saban, don't you see the utter confusion here?

On one hand you agree that one must be born again by the Spirit of God and right on the other hand you have this knee jerk slap tic reaction and say also water saves one you cannot be saved unless your dunked in some water.

Saban, I have tried out of true concern and love for the truth with you but I cannot make one see truth this is all the work and mercy of God. I shown you in all places the Greek rendering for[dip] and how it is used and not one verse I shared wherever that is used in the Greek has nothing to being water baptized. So, yes, Saban, I can see your frustration you would be going against your churches teaching and creeds and sad to say they over ride the very word of God sad to say.

Saban this is why the churches are under God's judgment, 1 Peter 4:17, and most in the church has no clue sad to say. God commands us we must be born again and this is only done by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.

Saban, here anyone can see the verses I give you but sad to say your void of any verses. Now I am sorry to see you lash out in the flesh but this is what many will do when they are not ready to face the word of God. So Saban, really, I do understand your frustration it is coming out in this post, I truly hope the very highest good for you, and that would be that God alone would teach you truth only by His word and His Spirit. Again, thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry Gary, if you wish to ignore the evidence I presented to you that baptizo means immersion.
I'm sorry Gary, that you continue to ignore 85% of the questions I ask of you and I'm also sorry that you don't give straight answers for the other 15%.
I'm sorry Gary if you choose to put your head in the sand over one verse that speaks about works of man even after you are told by the same book that "faith only" doesn't save.
I'm sorry you have to resort to strawmen and to develop arguments against me based on what you wish I had said rather than my actual comments.
I'm sorry you don't understand the verses that speak of obedience, falling away and the obvious baptism in water that Philip gave to the Eunuch.
I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand the importance of an institution created by Jesus Christ that is referred to as His Bride and that were told He bought with His blood.
Most of all I'm sorry that you are dishonestly placing words in my mouth effectively ignoring statements about what I say I believe. You've done this multiple times! For one, your telling me its "my church" again when I've emphatically denied such. Dishonesty! You're also continually repeating phrases that I believe we get ourself saved, which I have emphatically denied over and over. Dishonesty!
Basically, you've buried your head in the sand and you've created strawmen with which to argue pretending that I'm coming from where you want rather than where I am. I'm sorry to say, your basically being a dishonest creep right now.
Saban fan

United States

#32405 Jul 29, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I understand your frustration truly I do. The problem is, I do answer your questions but you just cannot see where I am coming from you want to hold dearly to just the mode of baptism and not see the real spiritual meaning that one must be baptized by God the Holy Spirit for one to be saved you used to believe this your self when you said you were saved by the word and the Spirit.
Saban, don't you see the utter confusion here?
On one hand you agree that one must be born again by the Spirit of God and right on the other hand you have this knee jerk slap tic reaction and say also water saves one you cannot be saved unless your dunked in some water.
Saban, I have tried out of true concern and love for the truth with you but I cannot make one see truth this is all the work and mercy of God. I shown you in all places the Greek rendering for[dip] and how it is used and not one verse I shared wherever that is used in the Greek has nothing to being water baptized. So, yes, Saban, I can see your frustration you would be going against your churches teaching and creeds and sad to say they over ride the very word of God sad to say.
Saban this is why the churches are under God's judgment, 1 Peter 4:17, and most in the church has no clue sad to say. God commands us we must be born again and this is only done by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.
Saban, here anyone can see the verses I give you but sad to say your void of any verses. Now I am sorry to see you lash out in the flesh but this is what many will do when they are not ready to face the word of God. So Saban, really, I do understand your frustration it is coming out in this post, I truly hope the very highest good for you, and that would be that God alone would teach you truth only by His word and His Spirit. Again, thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
You do answer my questions? Shall I go back through the past few days of questions and prove you a liar again?
Saban fan

United States

#32406 Jul 29, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I understand your frustration truly I do. The problem is, I do answer your questions but you just cannot see where I am coming from you want to hold dearly to just the mode of baptism and not see the real spiritual meaning that one must be baptized by God the Holy Spirit for one to be saved you used to believe this your self when you said you were saved by the word and the Spirit.
Saban, don't you see the utter confusion here?
On one hand you agree that one must be born again by the Spirit of God and right on the other hand you have this knee jerk slap tic reaction and say also water saves one you cannot be saved unless your dunked in some water.
Saban, I have tried out of true concern and love for the truth with you but I cannot make one see truth this is all the work and mercy of God. I shown you in all places the Greek rendering for[dip] and how it is used and not one verse I shared wherever that is used in the Greek has nothing to being water baptized. So, yes, Saban, I can see your frustration you would be going against your churches teaching and creeds and sad to say they over ride the very word of God sad to say.
Saban this is why the churches are under God's judgment, 1 Peter 4:17, and most in the church has no clue sad to say. God commands us we must be born again and this is only done by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.
Saban, here anyone can see the verses I give you but sad to say your void of any verses. Now I am sorry to see you lash out in the flesh but this is what many will do when they are not ready to face the word of God. So Saban, really, I do understand your frustration it is coming out in this post, I truly hope the very highest good for you, and that would be that God alone would teach you truth only by His word and His Spirit. Again, thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Now you're telling me what I used to believe? Completely wrong and dishonest.
Saban fan

United States

#32407 Jul 29, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I understand your frustration truly I do. The problem is, I do answer your questions but you just cannot see where I am coming from you want to hold dearly to just the mode of baptism and not see the real spiritual meaning that one must be baptized by God the Holy Spirit for one to be saved you used to believe this your self when you said you were saved by the word and the Spirit.
Saban, don't you see the utter confusion here?
On one hand you agree that one must be born again by the Spirit of God and right on the other hand you have this knee jerk slap tic reaction and say also water saves one you cannot be saved unless your dunked in some water.
Saban, I have tried out of true concern and love for the truth with you but I cannot make one see truth this is all the work and mercy of God. I shown you in all places the Greek rendering for[dip] and how it is used and not one verse I shared wherever that is used in the Greek has nothing to being water baptized. So, yes, Saban, I can see your frustration you would be going against your churches teaching and creeds and sad to say they over ride the very word of God sad to say.
Saban this is why the churches are under God's judgment, 1 Peter 4:17, and most in the church has no clue sad to say. God commands us we must be born again and this is only done by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.
Saban, here anyone can see the verses I give you but sad to say your void of any verses. Now I am sorry to see you lash out in the flesh but this is what many will do when they are not ready to face the word of God. So Saban, really, I do understand your frustration it is coming out in this post, I truly hope the very highest good for you, and that would be that God alone would teach you truth only by His word and His Spirit. Again, thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Lets see if you can actually get the POINT this time - now that this has been said over and over, we wouldn't know we needed to be baptized for the remission of sins if not for the Spirit giving us the Word that tells us how to be saved in Christ.

Understand????

Spirit----> Word----> understanding of obedient faith.
Saban fan

United States

#32408 Jul 29, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I understand your frustration truly I do. The problem is, I do answer your questions but you just cannot see where I am coming from you want to hold dearly to just the mode of baptism and not see the real spiritual meaning that one must be baptized by God the Holy Spirit for one to be saved you used to believe this your self when you said you were saved by the word and the Spirit.
Saban, don't you see the utter confusion here?
On one hand you agree that one must be born again by the Spirit of God and right on the other hand you have this knee jerk slap tic reaction and say also water saves one you cannot be saved unless your dunked in some water.
Saban, I have tried out of true concern and love for the truth with you but I cannot make one see truth this is all the work and mercy of God. I shown you in all places the Greek rendering for[dip] and how it is used and not one verse I shared wherever that is used in the Greek has nothing to being water baptized. So, yes, Saban, I can see your frustration you would be going against your churches teaching and creeds and sad to say they over ride the very word of God sad to say.
Saban this is why the churches are under God's judgment, 1 Peter 4:17, and most in the church has no clue sad to say. God commands us we must be born again and this is only done by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 5:26.
Saban, here anyone can see the verses I give you but sad to say your void of any verses. Now I am sorry to see you lash out in the flesh but this is what many will do when they are not ready to face the word of God. So Saban, really, I do understand your frustration it is coming out in this post, I truly hope the very highest good for you, and that would be that God alone would teach you truth only by His word and His Spirit. Again, thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Void of any verses?????

Are you joking?!
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32409 Jul 29, 2013
Hi Dr:

I am sure it is very hard in this world being single with all the crazy stuff out there. I truly feel sorry for the young ones out there it does not seem like they have a chance with everything hitting them, it truly seems like God has lifted His hand from this nation maybe the world I don't know but I see hearts growing so hard nothing could reach them it would seem just looking and observing but God can and does breaks the hardest of hearts. It was always a up hill battle in this life doing it God's way according to His word the true believer are called [aliens] and strangers in a land that is not ours this not our home for we are all just passing through. Thank you for your concern. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
gary
i gave you simple proof
that cyber space is not true witnessing about Gods Gospel
and never will be,because we never learn personaly each other as brothers and sisters in Christ
and posted rmarks can be wrong,mostly not truth,not based on attitudes of true heart.
TRUE WITNESS AND BROTHERHOOD EXIST ONLY IN REAL LIFE,DAY BY DAY BASIS OF PREACHING AND SERVING GOD FROM THE BOTTOM OF OUR HEARTS?
Do I have to believe your written posts?no?I don't have to, I never meet you and never we were seating by one table to discuss any biblcal subject
same You don't have to believ me ,maybe my vile posts cover my sincerely true new heart of born again and lacking any sympathies to all man advices,teachings, or forcing own doctrines
THIS IMPERFECT WORLD THROW US IN THE LONELY WORLD WILDERNISS,AND WE SINGLE ONES HAVE TO FIGHT AND SURVIVE TO ENTER ETERNAL CITY OF OUR INHABITATION.PSALM 107;1-13
anyway
I always like your posts, that is all,
if you are brother??? I don't know,
maybe I will know when both of us enter gate of the death and start spiritual path journey after death to the table of Christ Bride to see HIS GOD FIRST SILE TO ME AND TO YOU
Have good day Gary
trust me I am not your enemy,or adversary or anyone trying to teach you something different
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32410 Jul 29, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am not trying to be rude at all here but when you look at the word [baptized] and I look at the same word we both see two different meaning this is the problem Saban.

You see you look at the literal when I look at the spiritual meaning of the word meaning [to wash] or to cleanse and I know it is only the word and the Spirit that does this not some literal dunking into literal water there is no saving power in this act at all.

When you read, be baptized for the remission of sins Saban you look at the literal water I see it like this way,

Be baptized [made clean to wash] for remission of sins. You see only God can do this when He seals one with His Spirit this is the [one baptism] that saves that is, by God's Spirit not by my works or anything I do as going down and getting wet in some literal water this never saved me at all I was baptized twice as I said and none of them saved me.

Saban, this is why the true believers can worship God in Spirit and in truth as, John 4:23 declares these are the ones God seeks out we do not the work God must do the work thus He gets all the glory and this is how it should be to God be all the glory great things He has done not great things I have done no way! God said without the Spirit we are none of His. God must clean us, He must give us a new heart, He must sprinkle clean water on us not literal water but the living water of the word and the Spirit, John 4, and Ezek. 36:11-24

Saban, when you share things like we are not born sinners we are all born saved you do not see the utter confusion in this that is, if that was the case most people lost their eternal salvation because wide is the road that leads to destruction and MANY go therein. However, the fact is, we are all born in Adam the Bible says in Adam all die but in Christ all shall be made alive. We were all born from the loins of Adam and we all inherited that sin nature we can see the change in, Gen. 5:1-3. The image changed from God's image to man's image when Adam sinned his sons were created not in God's image but in Adam's image. This is why the word tells us that we are born in sins, Eph. 2:1, Psalm 58:1-3, Romans 3:10-12. Saban, this is what I use to back up what I am declaring and that is only the word not what a church teaches or some man but what does God teach? Only God can reveal truth to anyone all that I am is a witness to the word that's it. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets see if you can actually get the POINT this time - now that this has been said over and over, we wouldn't know we needed to be baptized for the remission of sins if not for the Spirit giving us the Word that tells us how to be saved in Christ.
Understand????
Spirit----> Word----> understanding of obedient faith.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32411 Jul 29, 2013
Hi Saban:

Did you not say, I was saved by the word and the Spirit? Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're telling me what I used to believe? Completely wrong and dishonest.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32412 Jul 29, 2013
Hi Saban:

Here is what you said below and I quote:

"I was born again and it took the word and the Spirit to make it happen"

I said I believe this also Saban, However, your adding to the way you used to teach the way you were saved, now you would like to add some water into the mix in what you do by getting dunked into some literal water saves you also because you said when I asked you can one be saved if he is not baptized today? Your answer was no.

So, it looks to me like your adding some of your own doing in the mix of God's salvation. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
There have been MANY baptisms, but when Paul penned Ephesians he cleared things up for us to tell us that from them forward there was only ONE baptism.
We don't practice John's baptism. I WAS born again and it took the Word and the Spirit to make it happen.
In not teaching a "works gospel" because you cannot quote for me any verse that suggests baptism is a work. I'm teaching the gospel Peter first presented at Pentecost. Did Philip baptize the Eunuch with John's baptism????
Faith is not developed by doing nothing - therefore by your conclusion faith takes works.
The only people I know of that were baptized with Holy Spirit and fire could do instant miracles. Their baptism gave them powers that helped confirm the message they preached - yet you think you had the same baptism??????
You ask me if one can be saved without being baptized with the one baptism Paul instructs us about - my answer is, if you believe Peter in Acts 2:38, that baptism is for the remission of sins, no.
You must "rightly divide the Word" Gary. You're not doing that. You "I'm sorry to say" are the one misleading people.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32413 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am not trying to be rude at all here but when you look at the word [baptized] and I look at the same word we both see two different meaning this is the problem Saban.
<quoted text>
Sounds like either Saban or you is not being led by the HS - or neither of you are.

How Christianity divides its followers:
- everyone thinks they have the correct answer
- everyone will promote their perception
- Interpretation is perception.
- Perception is Self

"Everyone is Right!" @2009 JustWow
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32414 Jul 30, 2013
Hi Saban:

I be glad to answer any of your questions if I could Lord willing. However, just make it one at a time as I do with you maybe two so I can give it a proper answer according to the word of God. Resorting to name calling Saban is not of the fruit of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, this is just your frustration acting out and I fully understand. So, please just one or two questions please. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
You do answer my questions? Shall I go back through the past few days of questions and prove you a liar again?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32415 Jul 30, 2013
Hi New:

Very good! Mush of what you say I have to agree with here below. We see the confusion in all the different churches of our day they all believe in something different as Saban his church believes dunking one self in water will help save you. Many churches today have a different [creed] they go by and sad to say they put there creeds above the very word of God this is why a Catholic remains a Catholic, Luthern, Methodist, Baptist, and on and on it goes. Now we know they cannot all be right could they? No there is not a 100 different versions of the same truth is there?

This is why God tells us the only ones who truly will know the truth are those that are born again of the word and the Spirit. You see when they teach they can show from the word why their conclusion is wrong and not in harmony with the whole of the Bible many look at the Bible like any other book when in reality it is a spiritual book meaning it is born by the Spirit of God for Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them

Now a true believer will show the complete harmony in his conclusion. Now does this mean he will always be right? No, but he will correct what he thought was right to correct it more in line with the word this is what the Bible should do to the true believer that is, to correct, reprove, and to instruct, 2 Tim. 3:16

Now the sad problem is this, the churches believe they have arrived at full truth so they never make correction this is why they stay the same name and such this is all of man made all these different names to these churches.

For the true believer he should be always growing in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ the Bible tells us, in other words he is always learning something new in the word and sometime he has to correct some minor errors he thought was true this should be very common for the true believer because there never should be any pride involved here. So New, this is just a quick summary of the difference between one who trusts only the Bible and one who trusts his churches teaching. Let God be true and every man a liar the Bible says as you said many have different points and they both can be wrong this is true but the believer will search it out and make correction when needed where the unbeliever will never make correction because he has to much pride it will not allow him to obey 2 Tim. 3:16. Again, thank you for this input. Gary.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like either Saban or you is not being led by the HS - or neither of you are.
How Christianity divides its followers:
- everyone thinks they have the correct answer
- everyone will promote their perception
- Interpretation is perception.
- Perception is Self
"Everyone is Right!" @2009 JustWow
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32416 Jul 30, 2013
Hi Dr:

Thank you for your input. Also, may the Lord grant you His blessing. Again, thank you. Gary
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
gary
i gave you simple proof
that cyber space is not true witnessing about Gods Gospel
and never will be,because we never learn personaly each other as brothers and sisters in Christ
and posted rmarks can be wrong,mostly not truth,not based on attitudes of true heart.
TRUE WITNESS AND BROTHERHOOD EXIST ONLY IN REAL LIFE,DAY BY DAY BASIS OF PREACHING AND SERVING GOD FROM THE BOTTOM OF OUR HEARTS?
Do I have to believe your written posts?no?I don't have to, I never meet you and never we were seating by one table to discuss any biblcal subject
same You don't have to believ me ,maybe my vile posts cover my sincerely true new heart of born again and lacking any sympathies to all man advices,teachings, or forcing own doctrines
THIS IMPERFECT WORLD THROW US IN THE LONELY WORLD WILDERNISS,AND WE SINGLE ONES HAVE TO FIGHT AND SURVIVE TO ENTER ETERNAL CITY OF OUR INHABITATION.PSALM 107;1-13
anyway
I always like your posts, that is all,
if you are brother??? I don't know,
maybe I will know when both of us enter gate of the death and start spiritual path journey after death to the table of Christ Bride to see HIS GOD FIRST SILE TO ME AND TO YOU
Have good day Gary
trust me I am not your enemy,or adversary or anyone trying to teach you something different

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32417 Jul 30, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Sounds like either Saban or you is not being led by the HS - or neither of you are.
How Christianity divides its followers:
- everyone thinks they have the correct answer
- everyone will promote their perception
- Interpretation is perception.
- Perception is Self
"Everyone is Right!" @2009 JustWow
Gary wrote:
Hi New:
Very good! Mush of what you say I have to agree with here below. We see the confusion in all the different churches of our day they all believe in something different as Saban his church believes dunking one self in water will help save you. Many churches today have a different [creed] they go by and sad to say they put there creeds above the very word of God this is why a Catholic remains a Catholic, Luthern, Methodist, Baptist, and on and on it goes. Now we know they cannot all be right could they? No there is not a 100 different versions of the same truth is there?
This is why God tells us the only ones who truly will know the truth are those that are born again of the word and the Spirit. You see when they teach they can show from the word why their conclusion is wrong and not in harmony with the whole of the Bible many look at the Bible like any other book when in reality it is a spiritual book meaning it is born by the Spirit of God for Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them
Now a true believer will show the complete harmony in his conclusion. Now does this mean he will always be right? No, but he will correct what he thought was right to correct it more in line with the word this is what the Bible should do to the true believer that is, to correct, reprove, and to instruct, 2 Tim. 3:16
Now the sad problem is this, the churches believe they have arrived at full truth so they never make correction this is why they stay the same name and such this is all of man made all these different names to these churches.
For the true believer he should be always growing in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ the Bible tells us, in other words he is always learning something new in the word and sometime he has to correct some minor errors he thought was true this should be very common for the true believer because there never should be any pride involved here. So New, this is just a quick summary of the difference between one who trusts only the Bible and one who trusts his churches teaching. Let God be true and every man a liar the Bible says as you said many have different points and they both can be wrong this is true but the believer will search it out and make correction when needed where the unbeliever will never make correction because he has to much pride it will not allow him to obey 2 Tim. 3:16. Again, thank you for this input. Gary.
<quoted text>
What you say is opinion. What you say is just your opinion.

"Now we know they cannot all be right could they?"
- Correct - and through honesty, if you use it, you will agree with me in that you don't know either.

"Now there is not a 100 different versions of the same truth is there?"
- There could be - if everyone interprets it differently.

"This is why God tells us the only ones who truly will know the truth are those that are born again of the word and the Spirit."
- I've asked you to support your position of "truth" and you have yet to do that.
- In your eyes and what you've said to me - paraphraed - "If it isn't in the Bible, then it isn't true. You will have to support what you say with the word of God."
+ This is only your problem, as you are yet to prove to anyone that you are "one who truly knows" - as I've debunked everything you've posted that you say is true.

Misleading others is not helping others. You will first have to be honest enough to admit the Bible was written by men, and no "God" was involved. Sicne you refuse to state this truth, then you are no one to say you have the truth.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32419 Jul 30, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
always i appreciate your calm posts
thanks
God bless you Gary
I see not to many allies have people like dr Shrink
you are my cyber friend?
smile
Not drinking today?

GREAT!!!
Saban fan

United States

#32420 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
Here is what you said below and I quote:
"I was born again and it took the word and the Spirit to make it happen"
I said I believe this also Saban, However, your adding to the way you used to teach the way you were saved, now you would like to add some water into the mix in what you do by getting dunked into some literal water saves you also because you said when I asked you can one be saved if he is not baptized today? Your answer was no.
So, it looks to me like your adding some of your own doing in the mix of God's salvation. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
Just obeying the gospel as we've been instructed we must do. We wouldn't know about these instructions had it not been for the Spirit and the Word. Right?
Saban fan

United States

#32421 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I be glad to answer any of your questions if I could Lord willing. However, just make it one at a time as I do with you maybe two so I can give it a proper answer according to the word of God. Resorting to name calling Saban is not of the fruit of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, this is just your frustration acting out and I fully understand. So, please just one or two questions please. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
You will not allow my answers to stand. You invent a strawman and assign me to that belief ignoring answers I've provided. That is intellectual dishonesty. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
Saban fan

United States

#32422 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am not trying to be rude at all here but when you look at the word [baptized] and I look at the same word we both see two different meaning this is the problem Saban.
You see you look at the literal when I look at the spiritual meaning of the word meaning [to wash] or to cleanse and I know it is only the word and the Spirit that does this not some literal dunking into literal water there is no saving power in this act at all.
When you read, be baptized for the remission of sins Saban you look at the literal water I see it like this way,
Be baptized [made clean to wash] for remission of sins. You see only God can do this when He seals one with His Spirit this is the [one baptism] that saves that is, by God's Spirit not by my works or anything I do as going down and getting wet in some literal water this never saved me at all I was baptized twice as I said and none of them saved me.
Saban, this is why the true believers can worship God in Spirit and in truth as, John 4:23 declares these are the ones God seeks out we do not the work God must do the work thus He gets all the glory and this is how it should be to God be all the glory great things He has done not great things I have done no way! God said without the Spirit we are none of His. God must clean us, He must give us a new heart, He must sprinkle clean water on us not literal water but the living water of the word and the Spirit, John 4, and Ezek. 36:11-24
Saban, when you share things like we are not born sinners we are all born saved you do not see the utter confusion in this that is, if that was the case most people lost their eternal salvation because wide is the road that leads to destruction and MANY go therein. However, the fact is, we are all born in Adam the Bible says in Adam all die but in Christ all shall be made alive. We were all born from the loins of Adam and we all inherited that sin nature we can see the change in, Gen. 5:1-3. The image changed from God's image to man's image when Adam sinned his sons were created not in God's image but in Adam's image. This is why the word tells us that we are born in sins, Eph. 2:1, Psalm 58:1-3, Romans 3:10-12. Saban, this is what I use to back up what I am declaring and that is only the word not what a church teaches or some man but what does God teach? Only God can reveal truth to anyone all that I am is a witness to the word that's it. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
<quoted text>
Sin takes action of some sort. As you would define it, sin takes "work", therefore an infant is unable to sin. They don't know right from wrong. Your basis is completely flawed! If they die, they've done nothing that would doom them to Hell.

If your doctrine were true wouldn't we find infant baptism discussed among all of the baptism that's mentioned throughout the Bible? Can you think of one infant conversion?
Saban fan

United States

#32423 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry but I gave you all the verses that had to do with the word [dip] in the Greek and you did not see that it has nothing to do with water baptism.
I am sorry Saban, but it seems your so hung up on the mode of water baptism should we be sprinkled? Dunked?
Saban, one can do all these things he can dive in the water, stay down for half and hour and still come up a dirty rotten filthy stinken sinner that is, if God did not wash him or her, if one is sprinkled, dunked, went down into the river, or whatever mode you believe is the correct mode I seen debate after debate over this issue and it has nothing to do with real salvation this is my point your so consumed sad to say with the mode of baptism that your not seeing that we need to be washed by the blood of the Lamb.
Saban, I was sprinkled in water as a child, I was dunked into a tank as a youg man and I can tell you I came up out of the water just as dirty as I went down there was no change because God did not clean or wash me at that time Saban salvation is not something we do to get our self saved if it was then Jesus died in vain.
Now you believe that you were born not into sin you were sinless so somewhere along the way you lost your eternal salvation and got it back when you went to church and you repented and you got water baptized and maybe a few other things and now you got back your eternal salvation is this (removed)
Your question, was your baptism in water from God or man?
It was first done by my parents I had no say in the matter, the second time it was done by myself by driving to the church talking to the pastor, going down into a tank, going into the water coming out then changing my cloths and so on it was quite the ordeal and much work on my part thank you.
However, there was another baptism I received only by the work and grace, and mercy of God this is my one real baptism that is when God the Holy Spirit came inside of me and sealed me with His Spirit until the day I am redeemed the Bible declares. Saban, this was not from anything I have done no way! Good in His mercy did this, Romans 9:11-24. Saban, if your not baptized by His Spirit then your none of His, the true believer can worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23, because he is born again by the word and the Spirit only, you used to believe this but for some reason you got hung up in what your church is teaching this is what the church won't tell you Saban my [site heading] Thank you. Gary.
<quoted text>
To be as learned as you are I would've thought you'd be able to do a google search. Amazingly both searches I've done on baptizo have defined it as immersion.

This from the NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon explains the meaning well:
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe, to overwhelm

The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised'(baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in asolution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptizing the vegetable, produces a permanent change.

This would explain the water discussed in the conversion example we find in Acts of the Eunuch. Surely Philip wouldn't have baptized the Eunuch with John's baptism, right????
Saban fan

United States

#32424 Jul 30, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
(removed)
but sad to say your void of any verses.
<quoted text>
Baptism is necessary to be saved. It is for remission of sins (Acts 2:38), to wash away one's sins (Acts 22:16). It saves (1 Peter 3:21). Belief + baptism = salvation (Mark 16:16), to walk a new life (Rom. 6:4), to put on / come into Christ (Gal. 3:26-27). God commands baptism, Gary (Acts 10:47-48) and is authorized by Jesus (Matt. 28:18-20).

We are buried with Christ in baptism (Rom. 6:4). We're buried in baptism / raised up (Col. 2:12). It's a birth (John 3:3-5). We go down into the water (Acts 8: 38-39, Rom. 6:4, John 3:23), a burial / immersion (Rom. 6:3-5) to be raised out of the water to walk in "newness of life".

It washes away our sins (Acts 22:16), get into the body (Gal. 3:26-27), to be added to the Kingdom (John 3:3-5, Acts 2:47), to enter the one body (1 Cor. 12:13), to become a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17), to receive a new life (Rom. 6:4).

If not for remission of sins, then why did Peter answer as he did in Acts 2? And why did the Eunuch request baptism? And why did the Eunuch rejoice afterward in Acts 8? Why did the jailor want to be baptized in Acts 16? Why did Paul hear the instruction "arise and be baptized" in Acts 22? Why did the Romans reflect on their baptism, raised to walk a new life in Rom. 6 and the Galatians know they were sons of God, baptized into Christ in Gal. 3? Why did God (in His inspired Word) connect water and salvation in Acts 22:16, John 3:3-5, 1 Pet. 3.21, and why would Jesus say clearly that "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16)?

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