“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32291 Jul 26, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Suppose the Gospel of Thomas were the only truly inspired Word of God? Then what?
Hmmmm.....many people have been duped.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32292 Jul 26, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I have no problem when I am wrong to admit to this, for me none of this is a pride issue it is what is the truth? Jesus said, my word is truth. So if someone could show me from the word alone where I am wrong I can only be greatful because that is all I am interested in that is, the truth.
Saban, many do not want to admit to their error only because of pride and God has not opened their understanding it is only these reasons why.
Now I shared verse after verse with you showing from God's word why we are saved by grace through faith alone apart from any work that we can do this is why I asked you the question, Saban, what did you have to do from the start to the finished when you were water baptized?
1- Fact, we are only saved by the hearing of the word and the power of God's Spirit when He alone puts His Spirit in the one whom He has mercy on
2- God clearly tells us that only those that are saved can worship God in Spirit and in truth in order to do this God must do all the saving thus He alone gets all the glory this is the way it should be.
3- This is the the baptism in,[one spirit] that God is referring to because water baptism for a fact has no saving power it is a shadow not the substance, it is a work that man does and it is a work because there is something you must do to be water baptized as I said you have to get dressed bring another set of cloths with you, drive to the church, talk to the pastor, go into the tank get dunked in water come up and then get into dry cloths and then drive home again, the fact is, there is a work involved in doing this and if you cannot see this it is because God has not showed you this most basic fact sorry to say. We do not wake up water baptized do we?
Fact, if the Holy Spirit is not inside you then you are none of His this is why one must be born again by the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, John 4:23, Eph. 5:26. These are facts that you cannot see yet Saban and I fully understand because it must be all the work of God that saves one. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Besides you and your opinion, there's only one location where we read the words "faith only" together. It actually says the exact opposite of your claim that "faith only" saves.

The fact that we read in 2 Thess. That we are to OBEY the gospel should also be a hint to the "faith only" baptists. You poo poo whatever you decide must be "a work" whether the Bible tells us it is or not, yet you must think someone can OBEY without any action taking place.

You haven't shown me any verses that say submitting to baptism is a work. You've ONLY told me YOU think it is a work.

You've given me points 1, 2, and 3, none of which you've sourced with scripture that says your opinion is actually in God's Word.

The four scriptures you did post i see perfectly. They correspond perfectly with the baptism I submitted to after I heard and believed the Word we received from the Spirit, repented of my sin and confessed Jesus as the Son of God. I was baptized for the "remission of sins" obeying the gospel in the process by dying to sin and being raised from the watery grave to be covered in the blood of Christ. Obeying the gospel placed me "in Christ", in His church (His Kingdom). ONE baptism.

Did you tell me why it is you think you could practice TWO baptisms when Paul said there is only one??

How did you "obey the gospel"?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32293 Jul 26, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I have no problem when I am wrong to admit to this, for me none of this is a pride issue it is what is the truth? Jesus said, my word is truth. So if someone could show me from the word alone where I am wrong I can only be greatful because that is all I am interested in that is, the truth.
Saban, many do not want to admit to their error only because of pride and God has not opened their understanding it is only these reasons why.
Now I shared verse after verse with you showing from God's word why we are saved by grace through faith alone apart from any work that we can do this is why I asked you the question, Saban, what did you have to do from the start to the finished when you were water baptized?
1- Fact, we are only saved by the hearing of the word and the power of God's Spirit when He alone puts His Spirit in the one whom He has mercy on
2- God clearly tells us that only those that are saved can worship God in Spirit and in truth in order to do this God must do all the saving thus He alone gets all the glory this is the way it should be.
3- This is the the baptism in,[one spirit] that God is referring to because water baptism for a fact has no saving power it is a shadow not the substance, it is a work that man does and it is a work because there is something you must do to be water baptized as I said you have to get dressed bring another set of cloths with you, drive to the church, talk to the pastor, go into the tank get dunked in water come up and then get into dry cloths and then drive home again, the fact is, there is a work involved in doing this and if you cannot see this it is because God has not showed you this most basic fact sorry to say. We do not wake up water baptized do we?
Fact, if the Holy Spirit is not inside you then you are none of His this is why one must be born again by the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, John 4:23, Eph. 5:26. These are facts that you cannot see yet Saban and I fully understand because it must be all the work of God that saves one. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Actually, I think you skipped over every question I asked you in that post you just responded to here. Can't you answer those questions? A simple answer to those questions might be more convincing.

Can you answer those questions???????
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32294 Jul 26, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the problem isn't it? What this means is that The Bible ain't God's Word. It is a story of a people. It is an anthology. Above all it is a tautology. I think it is far more meaningful to accept the Bible for what it is rather than elevate it to the level of God.
Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32295 Jul 26, 2013
Gary,

Why did you practice TWO baptisms???

Why didn't you receive the power to do miracles and to speak in languages you've never learned in your baptism that was just like the Apostles' Holy Spirit baptism???
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32296 Jul 26, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I have no problem when I am wrong to admit to this, for me none of this is a pride issue it is what is the truth? Jesus said, my word is truth. So if someone could show me from the word alone where I am wrong I can only be greatful because that is all I am interested in that is, the truth.
Saban, many do not want to admit to their error only because of pride and God has not opened their understanding it is only these reasons why.
Now I shared verse after verse with you showing from God's word why we are saved by grace through faith alone apart from any work that we can do this is why I asked you the question, Saban, what did you have to do from the start to the finished when you were water baptized?
1- Fact, we are only saved by the hearing of the word and the power of God's Spirit when He alone puts His Spirit in the one whom He has mercy on
2- God clearly tells us that only those that are saved can worship God in Spirit and in truth in order to do this God must do all the saving thus He alone gets all the glory this is the way it should be.
3- This is the the baptism in,[one spirit] that God is referring to because water baptism for a fact has no saving power it is a shadow not the substance, it is a work that man does and it is a work because there is something you must do to be water baptized as I said you have to get dressed bring another set of cloths with you, drive to the church, talk to the pastor, go into the tank get dunked in water come up and then get into dry cloths and then drive home again, the fact is, there is a work involved in doing this and if you cannot see this it is because God has not showed you this most basic fact sorry to say. We do not wake up water baptized do we?
Fact, if the Holy Spirit is not inside you then you are none of His this is why one must be born again by the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, John 4:23, Eph. 5:26. These are facts that you cannot see yet Saban and I fully understand because it must be all the work of God that saves one. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Had it not been for the Spirit how would we have ever had the Word?

Had it not been for the Word how would we have ever known the gospel?

Had it not been for the gospel how could we have ever known how to obey the gospel?

Had it not been for obeying the gospel (2 Thess. 1) how could we ever know eternal life in Heaven?

All these verses you continually point to can fit right in with the statements above.

How did you obey the gospel?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32297 Jul 26, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
How can I respond to your general opinion of what Jesus said? If you suggested which scriptures you are attempting to quote I could respond based on Jesus' actual words in context.
Not really. You couldn't respond because there is no such thing as Jesus' actual words. Even the context is questionable. Have you ever seen a red letter Bible?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32298 Jul 26, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
How can I respond to your general opinion of what Jesus said? If you suggested which scriptures you are attempting to quote I could respond based on Jesus' actual words in context.
Your reply is a total cop out. Jesus says he didn't come to change the Law, yet his actions and teachings were often against the Law of Moses. Was Jesus a liar?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32302 Jul 26, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Your reply is a total cop out. Jesus says he didn't come to change the Law, yet his actions and teachings were often against the Law of Moses. Was Jesus a liar?
Once again, point me to the verse you're using. As it is you're asking me to respond to hearsay.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32303 Jul 26, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
saban is church blind rat, having not any clue about Jesus spiritual sayings and His short life on this earth
Jesus never destroyed old law, HE FULFILL TO THE DIVINE PERFECTION THIS LAW AND MADE SPIRITUAL LAW PRIORITY OF DAILY LIFES HIS ELECTED ONES EARTHLY ADOPTED CHILDREN
Sabian has his point of view just as you and I do. The least we could do is be respectful right?

If what you are saying is true, then Jesus is a liar. He openly rebelled against the Law of Moses, which was the old Law.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32304 Jul 26, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, point me to the verse you're using. As it is you're asking me to respond to hearsay.
Even if I quoted the chapter and verse, it would still be hearsay. Why are you playing dumb? You know which verse I speak of.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32305 Jul 26, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if I quoted the chapter and verse, it would still be hearsay. Why are you playing dumb? You know which verse I speak of.


I don't. I think it's because your trying to quote something out of context.

Jesus fulfilled the Laws requirements.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32306 Jul 26, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
student is not educated enough to teach own teacher

I am line of ancestors from herew jews,and mama greek ,I know koine peasant greek language,and know much enough hebrew and arameic
you are in error about me,

I never believe that Jesus was YAHVEH OF OT,never believe trintity,never calim to be christians anf follow fake christians doctrines,cross. christmas,birthdays and churches without of God
trey to explain your thoughts to others,

not to me, because You have not clue of my background and my faith having nothing to do with world christianity doctrines,included doctrine of FR camping 50 years lies
all of you are wrong and misleaded about me?

And i personly urinate on your posts, cyber remarks and your zombies rants playing that all of you are SAVED and only you know the truth

if you are so smart a...catch Bible into your mouth,and go on the streets from door to door to preach your truths, not posts Lies about others and Lie to others on internet
f....you you poor self appointed saint

one pig accuse me that I am homsexual, second pig like you try to tell me, that he knows more about me from me alone

f.....you all of your stupid sick lost left behind seeds of satan
Off-Topic! I can't make head or tail of your gibberish.

I had written this:

"I had written the following to a poster on another thread and i find it applicable to your 'goodself'.
And finally, do all of us a favour:

Learn Hebrew and Aramaic. Then translate the poor and unscriptural Greek back into those languages.
Only then you will be able to understand Jesus.

For example, if you take the absurd translation from crude Greek "The Father and I are one", and translate it back into Jesus' native language, it would mean "The Father and I are on the same side."
It will not mean: "The Father and I are the one and the same person."

If Christians and their supporters learn Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, I assure you that you will be thanking and applauding us and also the Jews.

If you tell an ordinary Greek in English: "A bad workman quarrels with his tools", he will ask you, "Why does he quarrel with his tools? How can a man quarrel with his tools?" "

It was interesting when you told me that you are a cross of one coming from the line of Hebrew and a Greek lady. Now I can understand why are you so incoherent and make no sense. And this confirms my point about the Greek language, which is unscriptural. God Almighty never revealed anything in Greek.

Instead of peeing in your pants, address the contents of my post and offer me a proper rebuttal.

And stop farting, please. There is no need to litter the precious bandwidth.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32307 Jul 26, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't. I think it's because your trying to quote something out of context.

Jesus fulfilled the Laws requirements.
Hello, Saban

Pardon me for the intrusion.

I have always heard that Jesus fulfilled the Laws OR as you wrote: "Jesus fulfilled the Laws requirements."

I have asked Christian friends, "What exactly did Jesus fulfill, how did he fulfill the Laws and to list up the things he fulfilled. Didn't Moses and other prophets fulfill the Law?"

I have never received a proper response.

My own conclusion is that "Jesus fulfilled the Law" simply means that Jesus OBSERVED the Law and practiced it.

Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this conclusion. Thanks

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#32308 Jul 26, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello, Saban
Pardon me for the intrusion.
I have always heard that Jesus fulfilled the Laws OR as you wrote: "Jesus fulfilled the Laws requirements."
I have asked Christian friends, "What exactly did Jesus fulfill, how did he fulfill the Laws and to list up the things he fulfilled. Didn't Moses and other prophets fulfill the Law?"
I have never received a proper response.
My own conclusion is that "Jesus fulfilled the Law" simply means that Jesus OBSERVED the Law and practiced it.
Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this conclusion. Thanks
I have never received an intelligent answer to that or many other questions from Christians.

Here is another one.
All the sacrifices are listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Which one is Jesus ?

No answer in 30 years of asking.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32309 Jul 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
I have never received an intelligent answer to that or many other questions from Christians.

Here is another one.

All the sacrifices are listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Which one is Jesus ?

No answer in 30 years of asking.
Greetings and welcome, G_O_D

What a pleasant surprise, to see you here! Glad you are here.

True that! Jesus is not in those two chapters.

This is the most civil thread and i found interesting to write, excluding the contributions from Dr. Shrink.

Have a nice weekend, G_O_D
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32310 Jul 27, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Your reply is a total cop out. Jesus says he didn't come to change the Law, yet his actions and teachings were often against the Law of Moses. Was Jesus a liar?
The two statements you've made here about Jesus are hearsay. That's in admissible in a court of law because its unfair questioning. If you don't have a source it's an invalid question.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32311 Jul 27, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello, Saban
Pardon me for the intrusion.
I have always heard that Jesus fulfilled the Laws OR as you wrote: "Jesus fulfilled the Laws requirements."
I have asked Christian friends, "What exactly did Jesus fulfill, how did he fulfill the Laws and to list up the things he fulfilled. Didn't Moses and other prophets fulfill the Law?"
I have never received a proper response.
My own conclusion is that "Jesus fulfilled the Law" simply means that Jesus OBSERVED the Law and practiced it.
Please let me know if you agree or disagree with this conclusion. Thanks
As a for instance, in order to remain in good standing with God we no longer have to offer blood sacrifices since the blood sacrifices foreshadowed Christ's once and for all perfect sacrifice. That would be an example of fulfillment of laws that God's people were subject to.

Additionally, here's an article that should be helpful:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

#32312 Jul 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never received an intelligent answer to that or many other questions from Christians.
Here is another one.
All the sacrifices are listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Which one is Jesus ?
No answer in 30 years of asking.
All of those blood sacrifices foreshadow his perfect sacrifice for us on the cross. His was once and for all. The sacrifice we're asked to give now is good stewardship of our new life in Christ. The NT writings tell us how to be good stewards of our new life "in Christ". If we're covered in Jesus' blood, "in Christ", God sees Jesus' perfection covering us. Jesus is our advocate before God and according to Jesus, the only one that can get us to eternal life with God. He's the door.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32313 Jul 27, 2013
Hello, Saban,

Here is an important extract from that link:

"The New Testament explicitly teaches that the old law has been abolished. Whether one is talking about the Ten Commandments or the ceremonial laws, the Law of Moses or the Law of God, all are considered the old law that no longer is in effect. Jesus Christ fulfilled that law and nailed it to the cross forever (Matthew 5:17-18; Colossians 2:13-17)."

Please refer to my post #32210 of Tuesday Jul 23 addressed to WasteWater, who had written the following remarkable lines:

" Jesus was preaching the oral tradition."

Jesus was sent only to make the religion bearable for people. Traditions were forced upon people to follow.

Here is something remarkable and extremely striking from Jesus, which many ignorant Christians have never read and neither have they understood, when he said to the Pharisees (Mark 7):

"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

“You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

For Moses said,‘Honor your father and mother,’ and,‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’

But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother.

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”"

The word Corban, used in above verses, means Sacrifice. The argument given by Jesus clearly shows that he accepted and acknowledged Corban (Sacrifice). He did not nullify that.

When the Pharisees criticized his disciples for not washing their hand before meal, Jesus taught that it was not important what went into the mouth but what came out from the mouth! In this, he was teaching that hurtful speech was bad. And it did not matter if one did not was his hands before meals.

And note that the NT writers came up with a new Law written within brackets:

(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") Jesus was not discussing Lawful/Unlawful food in that topic at all. No Halaal and Haraam or Kosher/Non-Kosher.

The point is that Jesus did not abolish anything in the Law and he is on record for saying that he did not come to abolish, so how can the Church and the apologists say that he did?

It falls under misquoting Jesus.

Another point: People were not sacrificing humans that Jesus' so-called sacrifice was necessary.

If you read Acts 21 VERY CAREFULLY, you will discover that the elders, after meeting Paul, sent him to the Temple for purification rites!!!

"18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul:“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,

23 so do what we tell you.

There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them."

Please read the LAST LINE and mark the word OFFERING. It means that after Jesus was gone, offering or sacrifice was still in place.

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