Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32197 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
So Jesus didn't establish a church with many sects as you stated previously?
The body He established didn't have sects. He is the head and it is ONE body. Man invented the sects.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32198 Jul 23, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
First of all when you say you can explain Eph. 5:26 it is always good to quote the verse and go over it word by word in detail explaining the verse to see if your conclusion is in harmony with the whole of the Bible. I am sorry Saban you have not done this at all.
1- You declare: Therefore faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:10
You do error not knowing the scriptures Saban, your problem is not what I think it is with God Himself He said these words I did not.
Saban, you said the word was given to us through the Spirit.
Saban, this is only the case if one is first born again by the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, John 4:23
I have quoted Romans 10:17 many, many, times you never bothered to search the scriptures out sad to say if you did you would know that faith does come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Saban, your saying God is wrong here.
Saban, where does it state that we are a member of God's church when one is water baptized?
God tells us how He saves one and I have shared this with you over and over it is by God's grace through faith not of works least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9
Faith is not mustered up by what you or anyone does no way! Faith is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, and if your not saved by the word and the Spirit you are not a part or member of the eternal church of the true body of believers your a church member of a literal denomination of some kind.
Jesus tells us that He must give one the gift of faith because He alone is the author the one who starts the faith and He is the finisher of ones faith, Heb. 12:2. You really should look up those verses and pray for mercy in wisdom and understanding because your way off on these issues and it is very easy to show you from the word and why your in error. I hope Romans 10:17 can correct your error because for the true believer only the scriptures are for correction, reproof, and for instruction, 2 Tim. 3:16
Saban we are made clean and washed and sanctified by the washing of the water by the word it does not say we are clean when one gets water baptized.
"That He might SANCTIFY and CLEANSE it with the WASHING of WATER by THE WORD." Ehp.5:26
Saban, where does it state in this verse that we are made clean, and washed, and sanctified by literal water baptism? It does not state this at all in this verse this is why you did not want to quote the verse, this is what happens when you would rather believe in what your church teaches over the true word of God. You have to allow for correction by the word only. We are washed by the word this is why it states, So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Romans 10:17. This is why God tells us we are saved by grace through faith. Saban, read Heb. 4 this may help you show that it is all the work of God.
Saban, I have shown you that one cannot repent unless God grants one to repent to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. Fact, God must do it all and many hate this truth. I know this will make no sense to you unless God gives you understanding. Gary
<quoted text>
Before I finish reading this I have to stop at your #1 which is a COMPLETELY FALSE statement you've made about what I've said. Be honest in this. Don't place words in my mouth and then refute them. I'm not your strawman.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32199 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
So the Lone Ranger did have a car???!
Yes he did have a car.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32200 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
It is His church (kingdom). He gave Peter the keys to it and Peter presented it to the Jews first in Acts 2.
The Roman Church brought us the Bible in the 5th century. The Kingdom of God is not a physical church.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32201 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The body He established didn't have sects. He is the head and it is ONE body. Man invented the sects.
You already disrespected one of those sects. How can you do this and then claim that there is one body?
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32202 Jul 23, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
First of all when you say you can explain Eph. 5:26 it is always good to quote the verse and go over it word by word in detail explaining the verse to see if your conclusion is in harmony with the whole of the Bible. I am sorry Saban you have not done this at all.
1- You declare: Therefore faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:10
You do error not knowing the scriptures Saban, your problem is not what I think it is with God Himself He said these words I did not.
Saban, you said the word was given to us through the Spirit.
Saban, this is only the case if one is first born again by the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, John 4:23
I have quoted Romans 10:17 many, many, times you never bothered to search the scriptures out sad to say if you did you would know that faith does come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Saban, your saying God is wrong here.
Saban, where does it state that we are a member of God's church when one is water baptized?
God tells us how He saves one and I have shared this with you over and over it is by God's grace through faith not of works least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9
Faith is not mustered up by what you or anyone does no way! Faith is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, and if your not saved by the word and the Spirit you are not a part or member of the eternal church of the true body of believers your a church member of a literal denomination of some kind.
Jesus tells us that He must give one the gift of faith because He alone is the author the one who starts the faith and He is the finisher of ones faith, Heb. 12:2. You really should look up those verses and pray for mercy in wisdom and understanding because your way off on these issues and it is very easy to show you from the word and why your in error. I hope Romans 10:17 can correct your error because for the true believer only the scriptures are for correction, reproof, and for instruction, 2 Tim. 3:16
Saban we are made clean and washed and sanctified by the washing of the water by the word it does not say we are clean when one gets water baptized.
"That He might SANCTIFY and CLEANSE it with the WASHING of WATER by THE WORD." Ehp.5:26
Saban, where does it state in this verse that we are made clean, and washed, and sanctified by literal water baptism? It does not state this at all in this verse this is why you did not want to quote the verse, this is what happens when you would rather believe in what your church teaches over the true word of God. You have to allow for correction by the word only. We are washed by the word this is why it states, So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Romans 10:17. This is why God tells us we are saved by grace through faith. Saban, read Heb. 4 this may help you show that it is all the work of God.
Saban, I have shown you that one cannot repent unless God grants one to repent to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26. Fact, God must do it all and many hate this truth. I know this will make no sense to you unless God gives you understanding. Gary
<quoted text>
How would we have ever heard if not for the Spirit that preserved the Word for us? Faith comes by hearing. Correct. I've not said otherwise. We first have to hear the Word to believe it. Obvious...

How would we have heard the Word if not for the Spirit that's preserved God's Word for us?

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32203 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The body He established didn't have sects. He is the head and it is ONE body. Man invented the sects.
Shortly after Jesus died, many sects and cults started to form. If Jesus is the physical manifestation of God, he would expect this to happen. Am I correct?
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32204 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Shortly after Jesus died, many sects and cults started to form. If Jesus is the physical manifestation of God, he would expect this to happen. Am I correct?
I suppose so. His word warns us of false teachings. The only way to determine false teaching is to measure it by the Word.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32205 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean "The Church" as in the "Roman Church?" There was a great schism right from the start. The Roman Church was the western and the Orthodox was the eastern.

I doubt Paul thought he was writing the Bible. Paul's letters are his thoughts and "the word of Paul."

Who knows what Jesus actually said? He was speaking in another language. Any Bible is simply an approximation.
Yes, that is what I meant. In fact, both Churches came long after Jesus was gone.

I we read Acts, we can see that the disciples worshipped and prayed to the LORD at the Temple. Also, Jesus had not appointed any Bishops.

Yes, Paul's letters are his own thoughts and were addressed to various folks. The problem is that Jesus did not get his folks to write down and neither did he have any scribes among his followers, who could write down what he said.

What we have are four gospels and the three writers of the synoptic gospels knew nothing about John.

If John were really a true disciple of Jesus, his gospel should have come first. Anyway, since there was no gospel, Paul capitalized on the vacuum left by Jesus and his disciples and preached whatever he could think of.

If Paul had remained in Judea and had not gone West or North West, it would have been a different story.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32206 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Church brought us the Bible in the 5th century.
That is correct!

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32207 Jul 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that is what I meant. In fact, both Churches came long after Jesus was gone.
I we read Acts, we can see that the disciples worshipped and prayed to the LORD at the Temple. Also, Jesus had not appointed any Bishops.
Yes, Paul's letters are his own thoughts and were addressed to various folks. The problem is that Jesus did not get his folks to write down and neither did he have any scribes among his followers, who could write down what he said.
What we have are four gospels and the three writers of the synoptic gospels knew nothing about John.
If John were really a true disciple of Jesus, his gospel should have come first. Anyway, since there was no gospel, Paul capitalized on the vacuum left by Jesus and his disciples and preached whatever he could think of.
If Paul had remained in Judea and had not gone West or North West, it would have been a different story.
I agree. The whole "church" thing is sketchy. Jesus was preaching the oral tradition. It seems he did no like the written word very much which is why he singled out the scribes. John is a teaching Gospel written as a chiasm.

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questio...

http://village.hcc-nd.edu/hodonnell/JohnBTB.h...

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32208 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose so. His word warns us of false teachings. The only way to determine false teaching is to measure it by the Word.
Not really. You can measure it better by the spirit.

Paul actually describes it as follows:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32209 Jul 23, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose so. His word warns us of false teachings. The only way to determine false teaching is to measure it by the Word.
How can we trust translations and misinterpretations?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32210 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. The whole "church" thing is sketchy. Jesus was preaching the oral tradition. It seems he did no like the written word very much which is why he singled out the scribes. John is a teaching Gospel written as a chiasm.
http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questio...
http://village.hcc-nd.edu/hodonnell/JohnBTB.h...
Thank you.

You wrote: "Jesus was preaching the oral tradition."

Exactly! However, there was a difference between his oral teachings compared with those of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, who had made the religion of God, a burden for people, while they lorded over them.

if you ask any polemic Christian, "Why was Jesus sent by God?"

The answer will be: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

That was not the reason.Jesus was sent only for one reason and that was to make the religion bearable for people. Traditions were forced upon the people to follow, instead of following God's laws.

Here is something remarkable and extremely striking from Jesus, which many ignorant Christians have never read and neither have they understood, when he said to the Pharisees:

"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

“You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

For Moses said,‘Honor your father and mother,’ and,‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’

But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother.

13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”"

John's gospel is the most heavily forged gospel and even the Christian scholars agree that it has been written by many Johns.

Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32211 Jul 23, 2013
Hi Saban:

I am sorry that your upset. However, I do see that the truth hurts when shown from the word and when one is not ready to deal with just the truth of the word of God.

You said:

Faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

I said and quoted just from the word.

"So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Saban, now these are not my words they are God's words you have to deal with it is not me your upset with but with the word of God.

Saban, your trust is in a literal building and denomination this is why you cannot veer away from anything you have been taught. However, those that truly worship the Lord you hear no mention of any church building or denomination because they worship the Father in Spirit and in truth those are the true worshippers of God Saban and there is no mention at all of some literal building or denomination, listen again in what Jesus words are saying are you going to say this is not true also?

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE WORSHIPPEWRS shall worship the Father in SPIRIT and in TRUTH: For the Father seeketh such to worship Him." John 4:23

Saban where is there any mention of a denomination or building or church?

Saban, you see the ones that truly HATE THE TRUTH ARE THE UNSAVED RELIGIOUS ONES THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN THESE WONDERFUL LOOKING TEMPLES THEY KILLED THE WORD OF LIFE JESUS Christ BECAUSE THEY ALSO THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD THE TRUTH ALSO BUT WHEN EXPOSED BY JESUS THEY HATED HIM THEY SAID THEY LOVE GOD THIS IS FOR SURE IN THEIR MOUTH THEY SAID THIS BUT THEIR HEARTS WRERE FAR FROM HIM TO THE POINT THE KILLED HIM.

Saban, you should carefully read what I have said and go back to my last post and you will see you said: Faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

I did not put those words in your mouth Saban you did when you wrote this. Now will you also deny John 4:23 when referring to the true worshippers? Please don't get up set I say this out of love and from the word of truth to you Saban and the fact is, faith must come from the fruit of the Spirit of God Himself this is one of the fruits of the Spirit [faith] read, Gal. 5:22-23. Faith does not come from the power of man when they do this or that.

Tell me what do YOU have to do when you get water baptized? Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Before I finish reading this I have to stop at your #1 which is a COMPLETELY FALSE statement you've made about what I've said. Be honest in this. Don't place words in my mouth and then refute them. I'm not your strawman.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32212 Jul 23, 2013
[QUOTE who="GarySaban, you see the ones that truly HATE THE TRUTH ARE THE UNSAVED RELIGIOUS ONES THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN THESE WONDERFUL LOOKING TEMPLES THEY KILLED THE WORD OF LIFE JESUS Christ BECAUSE THEY ALSO THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD THE TRUTH ALSO BUT WHEN EXPOSED BY JESUS THEY HATED HIM THEY SAID THEY LOVE GOD THIS IS FOR SURE IN THEIR MOUTH THEY SAID THIS BUT THEIR HEARTS WRERE FAR FROM HIM TO THE POINT THE KILLED HIM.
<quoted text>[/QUOTE]

Would you call this logic? I wouldn't.

Gary, you admonish those that "KILLED THE WORD OF LIFE JESUS Christ BECAUSE THEY ALSO THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD THE TRUTH", but yet you don't beleive in Jesus completely.

You admonish those who gave you what you believe in.

Really.

maybe you should start believing in what Jesus taught instead of men.

*sighs*
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32213 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Church brought us the Bible in the 5th century. The Kingdom of God is not a physical church.
It's a spiritual church made up of Christians that met every first day of the week to worship and partake of the Lord's Supper.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32214 Jul 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
How can we trust translations and misinterpretations?
Comparison of the translations to the earliest manuscripts. Some are better than others. The ASV is a good and accurate translation.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32215 Jul 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you.
You wrote: "Jesus was preaching the oral tradition."
Exactly! However, there was a difference between his oral teachings compared with those of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, who had made the religion of God, a burden for people, while they lorded over them.
if you ask any polemic Christian, "Why was Jesus sent by God?"
The answer will be: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
That was not the reason.Jesus was sent only for one reason and that was to make the religion bearable for people. Traditions were forced upon the people to follow, instead of following God's laws.
Here is something remarkable and extremely striking from Jesus, which many ignorant Christians have never read and neither have they understood, when he said to the Pharisees:
"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
“You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
For Moses said,‘Honor your father and mother,’ and,‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’
But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother.
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”"
John's gospel is the most heavily forged gospel and even the Christian scholars agree that it has been written by many Johns.
BMZ: Exactly! However, there was a difference between his oral teachings compared with those of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, who had made the religion of God, a burden for people, while they lorded over them.

WW: That's what I get by reading the synoptic gospels also. If, according to Matthew, the Law was not changed, then the only Law would have to be The Ten Commandments. People who talk about a new covenant refuse to accept what is actually written in the Bible.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32216 Jul 23, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry that your upset. However, I do see that the truth hurts when shown from the word and when one is not ready to deal with just the truth of the word of God.
You said:
Faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God."
I said and quoted just from the word.
"So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
Saban, now these are not my words they are God's words you have to deal with it is not me your upset with but with the word of God.
Saban, your trust is in a literal building and denomination this is why you cannot veer away from anything you have been taught. However, those that truly worship the Lord you hear no mention of any church building or denomination because they worship the Father in Spirit and in truth those are the true worshippers of God Saban and there is no mention at all of some literal building or denomination, listen again in what Jesus words are saying are you going to say this is not true also?
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE WORSHIPPEWRS shall worship the Father in SPIRIT and in TRUTH: For the Father seeketh such to worship Him." John 4:23
Saban where is there any mention of a denomination or building or church?
Saban, you see the ones that truly HATE THE TRUTH ARE THE UNSAVED RELIGIOUS ONES THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN THESE WONDERFUL LOOKING TEMPLES THEY KILLED THE WORD OF LIFE JESUS Christ BECAUSE THEY ALSO THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD THE TRUTH ALSO BUT WHEN EXPOSED BY JESUS THEY HATED HIM THEY SAID THEY LOVE GOD THIS IS FOR SURE IN THEIR MOUTH THEY SAID THIS BUT THEIR HEARTS WRERE FAR FROM HIM TO THE POINT THE KILLED HIM.
Saban, you should carefully read what I have said and go back to my last post and you will see you said: Faith does NOT come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
I did not put those words in your mouth Saban you did when you wrote this. Now will you also deny John 4:23 when referring to the true worshippers? Please don't get up set I say this out of love and from the word of truth to you Saban and the fact is, faith must come from the fruit of the Spirit of God Himself this is one of the fruits of the Spirit [faith] read, Gal. 5:22-23. Faith does not come from the power of man when they do this or that.
Tell me what do YOU have to do when you get water baptized? Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I do not believe I said "faith does NOT come by hearing". If I did I'd appreciate you pointing out the post number.

If I said that it was completely by mistake and I think my previous post would confirm this.

When I was baptized I didn't have to do anything but get in the water. Just like the Eunuch.

Since you seem to have the market on truth, which baptism in scripture was similar to the one you experienced?

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