What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#32156 Jul 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi New
Sorry, I mean why don't you quote chapter and verse in he Bible God's word? Thank you. Gary
I have, but why - "everyone knows" the Bible and what Jesus taught from the mouths of others. What other folks don't realize is that Jesus taught more than what certain men chose, and that would be where I am ensuring others take part in this learning.

Afterall, if one says they beleive in Jesus, I am expecting them to believe in everythign he taught, not just the little that were already given to you.

DO you object to teachings by Jesus? Or more accurately, have you chosen to reject them, because other men instructed you to do so?

It can only be one of the two.

Through honesty, the truth will surface.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32157 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
You know all are always told....
The Church Heretics killed the honest 'heretic'. ;)
Look at the controversy.

"Ours is a church that has decided to stick to the old "King James Version" of the Bible. The multiplication of "modern language" English Bibles is one of the most important religious phenomena of recent years. It is our view that the production of these new translations has served to undermine the spiritual foundations of our country and weaken the message of her churches. The new versions are not really better than the old one. The abandonment of the King James Bible by our churches has not been a good thing. We are going to keep the old Bible for several compelling reasons."

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/flanders-whyk...

"Yet the King James Version has serious defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of biblical studies and the discovery of many biblical manuscripts more ancient than those on which the King James Version was based made it apparent that these defects were so many as to call for revision."

http://www.ncccusa.org/newbtu/reader.html

"Following the publication of the RSV Old Testament in 1952, significant advances were made in the discovery and interpretation of documents in Semitic languages related to Hebrew. In addition to the information that had become available in the late 1940s from the Dead Sea texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk, subsequent acquisitions from the same area brought to light many other early copies of all the books of the Hebrew Scriptures (except Esther), though most of these copies are fragmentary. During the same period early Greek manuscript copies of books of the New Testament also became available."

http://www.ncccusa.org/newbtu/reader.html

"Because no translation of the Bible is perfect or is acceptable to all groups of readers, and because discoveries of older manuscripts and further investigation of linguistic features of the text continue to become available, renderings of the Bible have proliferated. During the years following the publication of the Revised Standard Version, twenty-six other English translations and revisions of the Bible were produced by committees and by individual scholars—not to mention twenty-five other translations and revisions of the New Testament alone. One of the latter was the second edition of the RSV New Testament, issued in 1971, twenty-five years after its initial publication."

The Revised King James is simply the RSV 1952 which appealed to many fundamentalist pew warmers.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32158 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Pew warmers are like mushrooms. They are very happy to be kept in the dark and fed shit.
I am glad you read that. Thanks

If others like us, can read and study, why can't the Christians do the same?

The teachings by the Church go totally against the core teachings of Jesus.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32159 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you read that. Thanks
If others like us, can read and study, why can't the Christians do the same?
The teachings by the Church go totally against the core teachings of Jesus.
I would attribute that behavior to several factors.

1. They are ignorant and superstitious, so they are afraid of offending their imaginary God.

2. They are very comfortable in their belief systems and don't wish to rock the boat or leave their little tribe.

3. Many have weak egos and get ego gratification from their beliefs.

4. Some are bullies and get ego gratification out of hurting others.

5. Some are on a misguided mission for God. Unfortunately, they have failed to do their homework properly.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32160 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you read that. Thanks
If others like us, can read and study, why can't the Christians do the same?
The teachings by the Church go totally against the core teachings of Jesus.
Jesus also went against Church teachings. It is clear he rejected the Law of Moses.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32161 Jul 22, 2013
Hi Saban:

Being water baptized is not dying for sin this is just a fact physical water has nothing to do with the real power of salvation by the word and the Spirit. Again, your looking at the literal water when you look at the word [baptism]. You cannot explain Eph. 5:26 that tells us what cleanses one and sanctifies or purifies one
and what washed one is the water of the word for faith comes by hearing not being water baptized and by hearing by the word of God.

Saban, I already have shown you that one cannot repent on his own the reason being he is born dead and in sins, Eph. 2:1, Rom. 3:10-12. Again the Bible is clear you cannot repent on your own God must grant one true repentance to acknowledge the true gospel this is a biblical fact the churches won't tell you and if God does not give one repentance to believe the truth they will be held captive by Satan at his will read again, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

None of this is real to you in these verses in God's word sorry to say. The king of Ninevah did not dictate to God when God sent Jonah to Ninevah, Jonah warned them God would destroy this city if they did not repent. The king said, who can tell maybe God would turn from destroying us and save us. The king did not dictate do God because he knew it was all up to the Lord he said, who can tell? Maybe God would turn from this and spare us.

You see Saban sinful man from the very start wanted a gospel that leaves man in the driver seat they really do not want to both quietly wait and hope for the salvation of the Lord. Lam. 3:25-26

The word is very clear that God must sprinkle clean water of the gospel to save them it is not literal water that cleanses one. God must give one a new heart, God must take away the stony heart, God must put a new Spirit within you. Ezek. 36:25-29.

It is very clear that God says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The Bible does not say all but babies have sinned did He? No the Bible tells us right from our mothers womb we go astray speaking lies, Psalm 58:3-4.

Saban, any work that man does to think that he is saved as water baptism is just that a work that man does it is a work that you do not God Saban you have to take it upon your self and do this. Your trying to say it is not a work that man does when it is plain as day you have to do something. God commanded the people of Israel not to pick up sticks this was a minor infraction yet some did and God killed them because it was a work that they have done.

Saban, read Ezek. 36:25-29 and tell me where is man's work in all this it is all the work of God that saves us. You will see without doubt if GOD GIVES YOU UNDERSTANDING THAT SALVATION WAS THE EXACXT SAME IN THE O.T. AS IN THE N.T. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
So if Naaman had not gone into the water as he was commanded to do to be healed, he'd have been healed anyways?
You're right about my not believing we are born sinners.
Baptism is dying to sin (repent),
Fact is, we can't " join" the church. In Acts 2 we read we are "added to" the church. Every example of baptism from Pentecost throughout the 1st Century church was the ONE baptism for remission of sins first taught by Peter (given the keys to the Kingdom) in Acts 2. There are no examples of people getting saved or saying a "sinners prayer" and sometime later being baptized to join a local church. None whatsoever!
This is one of the things Paul is warning us about when he says if I or an angel of heaven teaches you a different gospel than the one you've been taught.
Man teaches this is "works Salvation" but man cannot locate a scripture that says baptism is a work. Fact is: the work has already been done. The grace and mercy has been extended. We, like Naaman, only obey the command to get into the water.
ONE Baptism (Eph. 4:5)
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32162 Jul 22, 2013
Hi Saban:

I will quote from the O.T in Ezek. 36:25-29, and you tell me where is it in the word of God here that salvation is any different and who's work of salvation is this God's or man's work?

"Then WILL I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I CLEANSE YOU. A new heart also WILL I give you, and a new SPIRIT WILL
I PUT WITHIN YOU: and I WILL take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I WILL give you an heart of flesh. And I WILL put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statues, and you shall keep my commandments, and do them."

"I WILL also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I WILL call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you." Ezek. 36:25-27, 29

Saban, these are not my words hey are God's words.

In these verses who will is it that does all this work? Is it man's will or God's will? He said how many times [I WILL]

1- He must cleanse one with clean water we do not cleanse or save our self He must cleanse us this is not literal water Saban it is the water of the word that must do this when He puts a new Spirit within us.

2- God must put the new heart in one to save.

3- God must put a new Spirit within us.

4- He will make us walk in His way to keep His commandments

5- God must make us saved so we will keep His word His commandments.[I will] IS MENTIONED ABOUT SEVEN TIMES IN THOSE FEW VERSES. HOWEVER, IT IS GOD'S [I WILL] NOT MAN'S

Question, where in these verses does it say that we must do anything? Where? Saban you will not find it because it was always the Bible declares from faith to faith it is God's work and His faith that makes one believe upon Him.

There is no question here in trying to twist the word to make it fit man's salvation plan it is just to clear who's will all this is and there is no mention of man's will or act in any of the work of salvation none!

Now the very sad thing to see is this, no matter what God shows us in His word if He does not grant one repentance to see the truth we will look for an exuse to change the word to make it fit to man's do it your self, have it your way, Mc Donald's type of self help have it your way gospel. All this does is lead one into judgment. This is what the church will not tell you is the name of my site here and this is the truth of the word of God I have shared.

Saban, there is no room in those verses for [my will] it is all of God's will He said how many times [I WILL] do this or that in those verses?

God tells us He must sprinkle on with clean water you would like to think it means baptism here but it has nothing to do with baptism at all in those verses there is no mention of this in those verses and the one who must clean us and wash us is the Lord this is what Jesus did with Peter He said if I do not wash you then you will not be clean.

Saban, you see God must do all the work so He gets all the glory the sad fact is, many want to rob God of His glory and this will never happen all that they are doing is being under strong delusion by what man o their churches are teaching this is what the churches will not tell you nor share those verses with you because it leaves [self] out of the equation. Now I have shared just the word and explained in in some detail but the word speaks for it's self here Saban. Thank you. Gary

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32163 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>

I would attribute that behavior to several factors.
1. They are ignorant and superstitious, so they are afraid of offending their imaginary God.
2. They are very comfortable in their belief systems and don't wish to rock the boat or leave their little tribe.
3. Many have weak egos and get ego gratification from their beliefs.
4. Some are bullies and get ego gratification out of hurting others.
5. Some are on a misguided mission for God. Unfortunately, they have failed to do their homework properly.
Thank you. I agree and that was helpful. They feel threatened and petrified by John's threat in Revelation.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32164 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus also went against Church teachings. It is clear he rejected the Law of Moses.
Actually, it is the Church that went against his teachings. Christianity of the 5th Century was not the same as the way shown by Jesus.

I will show through Mark that it was the Church and her writers who misquoted him and misinformed others. He was teaching that hurtful speech was wrong. People should think before they talk. That was his message.

Mark 7:18-19 New International Version (NIV)

18 “Are you so dull?” he asked.“Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"

We can see the fraudulent insertion " (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)", here.

There was no talk about Kosher or non-kosher food at all in that exchange.

Here, the writer of the gospel or the men who forged in "(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)", were the liars.

Another example: He said, "The Father and I are one". He did not say, "The Father and I are the one and the same person".

What he meant was that the Father and he were on the same side. Or he was on the side of the Father.

Bart Ehrman has rightly coined the term Misquoting Jesus and the New Testament should be called "Misquoting Jesus".
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32166 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus also went against Church teachings. It is clear he rejected the Law of Moses.
Where do these statements come from?

The church didn't exist when Jesus was alive.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32167 Jul 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I will quote from the O.T in Ezek. 36:25-29, and you tell me where is it in the word of God here that salvation is any different and who's work of salvation is this God's or man's work?
"Then WILL I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I CLEANSE YOU. A new heart also WILL I give you, and a new SPIRIT WILL
I PUT WITHIN YOU: and I WILL take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I WILL give you an heart of flesh. And I WILL put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statues, and you shall keep my commandments, and do them."
"I WILL also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I WILL call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you." Ezek. 36:25-27, 29
Saban, these are not my words hey are God's words.
In these verses who will is it that does all this work? Is it man's will or God's will? He said how many times [I WILL]
1- He must cleanse one with clean water we do not cleanse or save our self He must cleanse us this is not literal water Saban it is the water of the word that must do this when He puts a new Spirit within us.
2- God must put the new heart in one to save.
3- God must put a new Spirit within us.
4- He will make us walk in His way to keep His commandments
5- God must make us saved so we will keep His word His commandments.[I will] IS MENTIONED ABOUT SEVEN TIMES IN THOSE FEW VERSES. HOWEVER, IT IS GOD'S [I WILL] NOT MAN'S
Question, where in these verses does it say that we must do anything? Where? Saban you will not find it because it was always the Bible declares from faith to faith it is God's work and His faith that makes one believe upon Him.
There is no question here in trying to twist the word to make it fit man's salvation plan it is just to clear who's will all this is and there is no mention of man's will or act in any of the work of salvation none!
Now the very sad thing to see is this, no matter what God shows us in His word if He does not grant one repentance to see the truth we will look for an exuse to change the word to make it fit to man's do it your self, have it your way, Mc Donald's type of self help have it your way gospel. All this does is lead one into judgment. This is what the church will not tell you is the name of my site here and this is the truth of the word of God I have shared.
Saban, there is no room in those verses for [my will] it is all of God's will He said how many times [I WILL] do this or that in those verses?
God tells us He must sprinkle on with clean water you would like to think it means baptism here but it has nothing to do with baptism at all in those verses there is no mention of this in those verses and the one who must clean us and wash us is the Lord this is what Jesus did with Peter He said if I do not wash you then you will not be clean.
Saban, you see God must do all the work so He gets all the glory the sad fact is, many want to rob God of His glory and this will never happen all that they are doing is being under strong delusion by what man o their churches are teaching this is what the churches will not tell you nor share those verses with you because it leaves [self] out of the equation. Now I have shared just the word and explained in in some detail but the word speaks for it's self here Saban. Thank you. Gary
Did you misunderstand me? I said God did all the work. Did Naaman have to accomplish works to be healed or had the work been done? All Naaman had to do was obey and submit himself to God's will. There's no difference in baptism. I did no work when someone else baptized me. I submitted myself to God's will just as Peter first taught in Acts 2 and was practiced from that time forward in the NT church.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32168 Jul 22, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do these statements come from?
The church didn't exist when Jesus was alive.
The Bible. You should read it sometime using actual critical thinking skills rather than selective filtering.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32169 Jul 22, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do these statements come from?
The church didn't exist when Jesus was alive.
Sure there was a church by another name. Church simply means religious establishment.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32170 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. I agree and that was helpful. They feel threatened and petrified by John's threat in Revelation.
Exactly. They think the Bible is actually God's Word. There is no such thing.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32171 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, it is the Church that went against his teachings. Christianity of the 5th Century was not the same as the way shown by Jesus.
I will show through Mark that it was the Church and her writers who misquoted him and misinformed others. He was teaching that hurtful speech was wrong. People should think before they talk. That was his message.
Mark 7:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 “Are you so dull?” he asked.“Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)"
We can see the fraudulent insertion " (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)", here.
There was no talk about Kosher or non-kosher food at all in that exchange.
Here, the writer of the gospel or the men who forged in "(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)", were the liars.
Another example: He said, "The Father and I are one". He did not say, "The Father and I are the one and the same person".
What he meant was that the Father and he were on the same side. Or he was on the side of the Father.
Bart Ehrman has rightly coined the term Misquoting Jesus and the New Testament should be called "Misquoting Jesus".
Do you mean "The Church" as in the "Roman Church?" There was a great schism right from the start. The Roman Church was the western and the Orthodox was the eastern.

I doubt Paul thought he was writing the Bible. Paul's letters are his thoughts and "the word of Paul."

Who knows what Jesus actually said? He was speaking in another language. Any Bible is simply an approximation.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32172 Jul 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
Being water baptized is not dying for sin this is just a fact physical water has nothing to do with the real power of salvation by the word and the Spirit. Again, your looking at the literal water when you look at the word [baptism]. You cannot explain Eph. 5:26 that tells us what cleanses one and sanctifies or purifies one
and what washed one is the water of the word for faith comes by hearing not being water baptized and by hearing by the word of God.
Saban, I already have shown you that one cannot repent on his own the reason being he is born dead and in sins, Eph. 2:1, Rom. 3:10-12. Again the Bible is clear you cannot repent on your own God must grant one true repentance to acknowledge the true gospel this is a biblical fact the churches won't tell you and if God does not give one repentance to believe the truth they will be held captive by Satan at his will read again, 2 Tim. 2:
Saban, any work that man does to think that he is saved as water baptism is just that a work that man does it is a work that you do not God Saban you have to take it upon your self and do this. Your trying to say it is not a work that man does when it is plain as day you have to do something. God commanded the people of Israel not to pick up sticks this was a minor infraction yet some did and God killed them because it was a work that they have done.
Saban, read Ezek. 36:25-29 and tell me where is man's work in all this it is all the work of God that saves us. You will see without doubt if GOD GIVES YOU UNDERSTANDING THAT SALVATION WAS THE EXACXT SAME IN THE O.T. AS IN THE N.T. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I can explain Eph. 5:26. Everyone in the church has been baptized because they heard and obeyed the Word. The Word was given to us through the Spirit. Therefore faith does come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When, through obedient faith, we are baptized we are members of His church, the Bride of Christ.

Peter was teaching at Pentecost the people needed to repent. He said nothing about whether God had repented for their sins for them already - makes ABSOLUTELY no sense!!

If we ask for repentance and we DO in fact repent, by changing our ways, God grants us his mercy. He desires everyone come to repentance - not just those you say he's predestined to have no choice but to go to Heaven with him.
God is no respect or of person's right??!

Acts 2:38 tells us we receive his Holy Spirit at baptism - why ignore it? You continue saying its a work because your man-made church doctrine tells you it is. But you've yet to point me to a verse that tells us baptism is "a work" (except from your Book of Opinions).

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32173 Jul 22, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I can explain Eph. 5:26. Everyone in the church has been baptized because they heard and obeyed the Word. The Word was given to us through the Spirit. Therefore faith does come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When, through obedient faith, we are baptized we are members of His church, the Bride of Christ.
Peter was teaching at Pentecost the people needed to repent. He said nothing about whether God had repented for their sins for them already - makes ABSOLUTELY no sense!!
If we ask for repentance and we DO in fact repent, by changing our ways, God grants us his mercy. He desires everyone come to repentance - not just those you say he's predestined to have no choice but to go to Heaven with him.
God is no respect or of person's right??!
Acts 2:38 tells us we receive his Holy Spirit at baptism - why ignore it? You continue saying its a work because your man-made church doctrine tells you it is. But you've yet to point me to a verse that tells us baptism is "a work" (except from your Book of Opinions).
In your own words, what does repentance mean?
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32174 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure there was a church by another name. Church simply means religious establishment.
No there wasn't.

The church is His Bride. It is the Kingdom. His body.

It didn't exist until Pentecost - after Jesus' ascension.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32175 Jul 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean "The Church" as in the "Roman Church?" There was a great schism right from the start. The Roman Church was the western and the Orthodox was the eastern.
I doubt Paul thought he was writing the Bible. Paul's letters are his thoughts and "the word of Paul."
Who knows what Jesus actually said? He was speaking in another language. Any Bible is simply an approximation.
The church is the one Jesus died for and was established in the 1st Century. Man came along and added his flavor and likeness to it which took the form of many denominations including the one you mentioned.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#32178 Jul 22, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
No there wasn't.
The church is His Bride. It is the Kingdom. His body.
It didn't exist until Pentecost - after Jesus' ascension.
That is but one church among many. What church is associated with the Hebrew Scripture?

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