Saban fan

United States

#32131 Jul 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Some comments:
The problem is that there is no talk about any Messiah in the Torah at all. We do not see anywhere God promising the Jews a Messiah.
We only see God promising the Hebrews a Prophet in Deut 18.
Yes, Immanuel means "God with us" but it does not mean that the person named Immanuel has to be or is God.
Melchizedek was no High Priest of God. There was even no Temple of God at that time. He was a poor tribal king of Salem, who brought food and drinks to Abraham.
Abraham had pity on him and gave him a tenth of his spoil, which he won in the battle. The 10% tithes had not even been prescribed at that time.
Melchizedek was the King of Salem or the "King of 'Peace'. The scripture says he was the Priest of God Most High. David refers to him in Psalms 110 as well. As Heb. 7:1-3 hints, Melchizedek could possibly be Jesus. We know from Genesis 1 that Jesus was with God at creation. Couldn't it be possible that an OT figure Jesus is compared to could in fact be him? Possible.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32132 Jul 21, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Melchizedek was the King of Salem or the "King of 'Peace'. The scripture says he was the Priest of God Most High. David refers to him in Psalms 110 as well. As Heb. 7:1-3 hints, Melchizedek could possibly be Jesus. We know from Genesis 1 that Jesus was with God at creation. Couldn't it be possible that an OT figure Jesus is compared to could in fact be him? Possible.
I don't believe that Jesus was Melchizedek.

I have already said the following about Melchizedek:

"Melchizedek was no High Priest of God. There was even no Temple of God at that time.

He was a poor tribal king of Salem, who brought food and drinks to Abraham.

Abraham had pity on him and gave him a tenth of his spoil, which he won in the battle. The 10% tithes had not even been prescribed at that time."

How can Jesus be everything? He is God according to Christianity. Right?

Why would that God be High Priest? I don't think the Father in Heaven is running Temples, Synagogues and Churches.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32133 Jul 21, 2013
Hi Saban:

Yes, you are correct that Jesus is the King of Melchisedec king of Salem,[Salem] means [peace] Jesus is the prince of peace in Heb. 7:1-3 you aludded to shows that He was without Father and without Mother he had neither beginning of days nor end He is the Alfha and the Omega. This is called an epiphany meaning that God was able to take on the form of man at will as He did when the three men went to see Abraham to warn them about the destruction of the cities of Sodom. Thank you for sharing those verses. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Melchizedek was the King of Salem or the "King of 'Peace'. The scripture says he was the Priest of God Most High. David refers to him in Psalms 110 as well. As Heb. 7:1-3 hints, Melchizedek could possibly be Jesus. We know from Genesis 1 that Jesus was with God at creation. Couldn't it be possible that an OT figure Jesus is compared to could in fact be him? Possible.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32134 Jul 21, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
Oh please!?!?

Hebrews is not "under Paul's name". He may have written it but we have no evidence of such. Fact is: we don't know.

Jesus' disciples had gone into hiding?? The only time they hid or scattered is when Jesus had been killed. He was seen by many people after his resurrection and we read of no hiding after that. They would all give thier lives for the cause.

Saul of Tarsus (later named Paul) came along as a zealous God fearing man intent on stamping out the Christians. Fact is: his drastic turnaround from Christian persecutor to probably the greatest Christian missionary ever is just another evidence to Christians of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. Paul had to be absolutely convinced by his blinding meeting that Jesus was who He said He was.

Why wood Paul flip His strong allegiance to God like he did? Why would he risk life and limb and be jailed over and over to preach Christ after persecuting the church??

"No testimony about Paul from other witnesses"? Peter himself said that Paul's writings were to be considered "scripture".

Gal 1:8 is warning us about people like you. Paul is warning us not to follow any gospel preached that is not the one we read about in scripture. Obviously, as he was led by the Spirit, there was knowledge that there would be false teachers then and now and the only way to pick them out was to compare their words to the scripture that has been preserved for us by the Spirit of God.
In that case the book Hebrews should not have been incorporated in the NT, since Hebrews 1 is definitely a lie against God. The author just tried to show supremacy of Jesus and that is wrong.

There is no proof that Paul was persecuting the Church or Christians as both were never there. We don't see Paul going after Jesus and his disciples at all, when they were out in the open.

Peter himself, along with John was illiterate or unschooled! How could he appreciate the writings of Paul?

Gospels came long, long after Paul's letters and preaching. That is why I said that those four gospels were not preached by Paul and company. Hence under Galatians Clause 1:8, the gospels and the writers stand accursed.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32135 Jul 21, 2013
Hi Saban:

The real problem that your having coming to terms with al this is his, your looking at baptism as just [hto water] this is not what God is referring to cleanses us as I said it is the shadow not the substance. I have shown you there is no water mentioned in most of the verses you are showing me but your taught to look at this word as just [water] we know literal water has no power to wash away sins this is why I shown you from the word that it is the [word] that cleanses us, Eph. 5:26 I have shown you the literal rendering for [baptism] means to wash, cleanse, and to purify. Saban, literal [water] cannot do this and I cannot make this real to you no way the word and the Spirit must make this truth real to you. This is why I shown you Acts 1, please reread this chapter the [baptism] one needs for salvation is being baptized or made clean or to wash or to purify comes from being baptized by the Holy Spirit this is what seals the believer not some literal water in what man does.

Saban, you don't see yet that we cannot go to saying one is saved by grace though faith on one hand then turn around and say we are made clean by water baptism it will not wash away ones sins only the shed blood of the Lord Jesus can do this for without the shedding of blood there is NO REMISSION or forgiveness for sins it has nothing to do with what one does by being dunked or dipped into some literal water these are pictures and shadows of salvation it is not literal water that saves one Saban your focus is on the literal this is why one must be born again by the word and the Spirit because the Bible is a spiritual book and if your not born again what I am saying from the word will not make any sense to you sad to say this is what your church is teaching you Saban not the word you need to allow and bow to the word not to some denominations teaching or creeds. We have nothing to do with God's salvation plan your saying we do Saban by what WE, I ME, does when I get water hto baptized. Either one is saved by grace through faith or he is not saved. God is not adding to the way He saves in Eph 2:8-9 I am sorry but your adding to God's plan of salvation buy adding water baptism saves you, this is not grace alone by the faith of Christ it is the work of man this gospel sad to say but it is deadly to teach a works gospel and when you teach that water baptism saves your making void the Spirit of grace sad to say. Please think and pray about this look at the literal Greek rendering of [baptism] and compare this with Eph. 5:26, and 1 Peter 1:23. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you just don't understand that when I'm taught by the Word I'm being taught by the Spirit. If a person does not know the Word and has not been taught from the Word they've not been taught by the Spirit.
Baptism purifies us spiritually (Acts 2:38). I'm sorry that you don't agree with it, but its clearly instructed in the Bible because it was commanded by Jesus in the Great Commisson. If not for the Word, provided through the Spirit, I wouldn't know this and wouldn't be able to read about it in all of the conversion examples from Pentecost on.
It ALL falls into place Gary. None of the scriptures comtradict, but in your belief, they do. See Acts 2:38, or see the conversion of the Eunuch in Acts 8 for starters.
I am saved through the grace of God, and I put on Christ in baptism. No work involved except in your opinion. God did the Work, I just submitted to His command.
Saban fan

United States

#32136 Jul 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe that Jesus was Melchizedek.
I have already said the following about Melchizedek:
"Melchizedek was no High Priest of God. There was even no Temple of God at that time.
He was a poor tribal king of Salem, who brought food and drinks to Abraham.
Abraham had pity on him and gave him a tenth of his spoil, which he won in the battle. The 10% tithes had not even been prescribed at that time."
How can Jesus be everything? He is God according to Christianity. Right?
Why would that God be High Priest? I don't think the Father in Heaven is running Temples, Synagogues and Churches.
He is our High Priest and the church belongs to Him. He purchased it with His blood.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32137 Jul 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case the book Hebrews should not have been incorporated in the NT, since Hebrews 1 is definitely a lie against God. The author just tried to show supremacy of Jesus and that is wrong.
There is no proof that Paul was persecuting the Church or Christians as both were never there. We don't see Paul going after Jesus and his disciples at all, when they were out in the open.
Peter himself, along with John was illiterate or unschooled! How could he appreciate the writings of Paul?
Gospels came long, long after Paul's letters and preaching. That is why I said that those four gospels were not preached by Paul and company. Hence under Galatians Clause 1:8, the gospels and the writers stand accursed.
We have so many "experts" here that do not know how to "rightly divide" the Word. For one, the church did not exist while Jesus lived. It came into being several weeks after His ascension. We see it come into place in Acts 2.

Paul was there when Stephen was stoned for his faith. Paul admitted persecuting Christians and thought at the time he was sincerely right with God in doing so.

Those "illiterate/unschooled " guys were given the abilities to speak in languages the'd never learned among many other miracles they had the power to perform. Perhaps if what you say is true about them it is additional evidence that what they communicated was directly from God.

Paul taught "the gospel" to many nations. It's silly to think he didn't preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32138 Jul 21, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
The real problem that your having coming to terms with al this is his, your looking at baptism as just [hto water] this is not what God is referring to cleanses us as I said it is the shadow not the substance. I have shown you there is no water mentioned in most of the verses you are showing me but your taught to look at this word as just [water] we know literal water has no power to wash away sins this is why I shown you from the word that it is the [word] that cleanses us, Eph. 5:26 I have shown you the literal rendering for [baptism] means to wash, cleanse, and to purify. Saban, literal [water] cannot do this and I cannot make this real to you no way the word and the Spirit must make this truth real to you. This is why I shown you Acts 1, please reread this chapter the [baptism] one needs for salvation is being baptized or made clean or to wash or to purify comes from being baptized by the Holy Spirit this is what seals the believer not some literal water in what man does.
Saban, you don't see yet that we cannot go to saying one is saved by grace though faith on one hand then turn around and say we are made clean by water baptism it will not wash away ones sins only the shed blood of the Lord Jesus can do this for without the shedding of blood there is NO REMISSION or forgiveness for sins it has nothing to do with what one does by being dunked or dipped into some literal water these are pictures and shadows of salvation it is not literal water that saves one Saban your focus is on the literal this is why one must be born again by the word and the Spirit because the Bible is a spiritual book and if your not born again what I am saying from the word will not make any sense to you sad to say this is what your church is teaching you Saban not the word you need to allow and bow to the word not to some denominations teaching or creeds. We have nothing to do with God's salvation plan your saying we do Saban by what WE, I ME, does when I get water hto baptized. Either one is saved by grace through faith or he is not saved. God is not adding to the way He saves in Eph 2:8-9 I am sorry but your adding to God's plan of salvation buy adding water baptism saves you, this is not grace alone by the faith of Christ it is the work of man this gospel sad to say but it is deadly to teach a works gospel and when you teach that water baptism saves your making void the Spirit of grace sad to say. Please think and pray about this look at the literal Greek rendering of [baptism] and compare this with Eph. 5:26, and 1 Peter 1:23. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
The Eunuch seemed to be focused on the literal water.

Once again the baptism that happened to the Apostles in Acts 1 is not the same baptism they taught. What they experienced was unique to them and it gave them unique abilities that helped set the Kingdom in place. You cannot do those things because you have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit as they were. They taught (Acts 2:38) that people like you and me receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized for the remission of our sins.

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32139 Jul 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed and yes almost half of his letters are considered written by unknown men, by modern scholars. Hebrews is one of the forgeries under Paul's name.
Here is my take on Paul:
Paul came out of the blue and filled the vacuum left by Jesus and his disciples, who had gone into hiding.
The best joke is that Jesus never said a word about Paul to his disciples at all and did not even prophesy to them about Paul. Surely, Jesus would have at least tipped the disciples about the coming of this man. Right? But we do not have any testimony about Paul from another witness. Self-testimony is no testimony.
Personal letters cannot be considered Scripture. Jesus came with nothing new, brought nothing new and left nothing. When the Church was founded in the 4th Century, it had no Scripture. That is when the presbyters went in search and picked up everything they could.
Most were thrown into the bin of Apocrypha and that which deserved to be thrown in the bin, was canonized. As there was not much available on the teachings of Jesus, so Paul's letters were included.
The most striking part is Paul's statement in Galatians 1:8
"Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Godís curse!"
Under this Clause, all the four writers of the NT gospels and the gospels stand under God's Curse.
Isn't that shocking?
That's about the size of it. It is like a big child's game. I can just see the church fathers.

"We canonized it. Done deal. No changes...."

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32140 Jul 21, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
It claims that but I do not believe it because OT was translated into English from texts in Greek only.
If one reads any OT translation in parallel with the Jewish Tanakh, one can easily find distortions and forgeries.
I can show some, if you wish.
Have you read the first translation of OT in English in the later part of the 14th Century by John Wycliffe?
No good deed goes unpunished.

"The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings. The Council decreed Wycliffe's works should be burned and his remains exhumed. On 6 July 1415, it also declared Hus a heretic, defrocked him, and had him burned at the stake. Hus' followers soon rebelled; while the Hussite Wars lasted between 1419 and 1434, the Hussite movement spread through Middle Europe. In 1428, at Pope Martin V's command, Wycliffe's corpse was exhumed and burned and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth."

So much for the guy who brought you one of the first English Bible translations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32143 Jul 21, 2013
H Saban:

Yes, the Eununch was water baptized but this is not what saved him again it is a picture of hopefully what took place inside it is not the substance to be water baptized for the remission for sins. The fact is, without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgiveness for sins. So we have a HUGE problem here with your conclusion Saban.

1- You say that literal water of baptism is for the remission of sins, no where it states literal water can cleanse one it is the washing of the water by the word when God applies His word by His Spirit to ones heart. Eph. 5:26.

2- You say we are saved by grace through faith and I agree with this also, Eph. 2:8-8

3- However, you say we are saved with water baptism for the remission of our sins.

4- God tells us that without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins.

Saban, so which one is it? THERE IS NOT TWO OR THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT SALVATION PLAINS THERE IS ONLY ONE.

SABAN, THE PROOF THAT YOUR PUTTING YOUR TRUST IN SOME LITERAL WATER TO WASH AWAY ONES SINS WHEN THE FACT IS,[BAPTISIM] MEANS TO WASH, TO CLEANSE, AND TO PURIFY AND I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN YOU JUST FROM THE WORD THAT ONE IS WASHED, CLEANSED, AND SANTIFIED BY THE WASHING OF THE WATER BY THE WORD. FAITH DOES NOT COME BY BEING WATER BAPTIZED. FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD, HEB. 10:12

So we see the woman at the well in John 4, was speaking of literal water but Jesus was taking her eyes off the literal to the spiritual when He said I will give you LIVING WATER.

"JESUS ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HER, If THOU KNEWEST THE GIFT OF GOD, AND WHO IT IS THAT SAITH THE YOU, GIVE ME TO DRINK: THOU WOULDEST HAVE ASKED OF HIM, AND HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEE LIVING WATER." JOHN 4:10.

Saban, do you think Jesus was putting the focus on literal water? This is what you would have us to believe when you tell us literal water saves one for the remission of sins, we can see Jesus was looking at something other than living water He goes on and says,

"Jesus answered and said unto her, Whsoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again. But whosoever drinketh the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water that I shall give him shall BE IN HIM a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:13-14

Now we read on further and we find out what this water is,

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in Spirit AND IN TRUTH: For the Father SEEKETH such to worship Him. John 4:23

Saban, to worship God one MUST worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Jesus said, my word is truth, John 17:17

God did not say you must worship Him in water baptism and in Spirit did He? No!

So, you see just how cohesive this all is when you allow the word to teach one?

Saban, God is the one that SEEKS those to worship Him we do not do the seeking He does and He seeks and finds those who He came to save to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. This is why I keep saying you must be born again of the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6.

Saban, I cannot make you see these truth's God must seek you out and if He does you will see there is only one salvation plan and that is by grace through faith and this happens because Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins, literal water does not give one remission of sins no way, it is in the blood for without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgiveness of sins. It is not literal water baptism that forgives one of sins. Thank you. Gary.
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Eunuch seemed to be focused on the literal water.
Once again the baptism that happened to the Apostles in Acts 1 is not the same baptism they taught. They taught (Acts 2:38) that people like you and me receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized for the remission of our sins.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32144 Jul 21, 2013
Gary wrote:
H Saban:
Yes, the Eununch was water baptized but this is not what saved him again it is a picture of hopefully what took place inside it is not the substance to be water baptized for the remission for sins. The fact is, without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgiveness for sins. So we have a HUGE problem here with your conclusion Saban.
1- You say that literal water of baptism is for the remission of sins, no where it states literal water can cleanse one it is the washing of the water by the word when God applies His word by His Spirit to ones heart. Eph. 5:26.
2- You say we are saved by grace through faith and I agree with this also, Eph. 2:8-8
3- However, you say we are saved with water baptism for the remission of our sins.
4- God tells us that without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins.
Saban, so which one is it? THERE IS NOT TWO OR THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT SALVATION PLAINS THERE IS ONLY ONE.
SABAN, THE PROOF THAT YOUR PUTTING YOUR TRUST IN SOME LITERAL WATER TO WASH AWAY ONES SINS WHEN THE FACT IS,[BAPTISIM] MEANS TO WASH, TO CLEANSE, AND TO PURIFY AND I (removed)
Saban, do you think Jesus was putting the focus on literal water? This is what you would have us to believe when you tell us literal water saves one for the remission of sins, we can see Jesus was looking at something other than living water He goes on and says,
"Jesus answered and said unto her, Whsoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again. But whosoever drinketh the water that I shall give him shall never thirst, but the water that I shall give him shall BE IN HIM a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:13-14
Now we read on further and we find out what this water is,
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in Spirit AND IN TRUTH: For the Father SEEKETH such to worship Him. John 4:23
Saban, to worship God one MUST worship in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Jesus said, my word is truth, John 17:17
God did not say you must worship Him in water baptism and in Spirit did He? No!
So, you see just how cohesive this all is when you allow the word to teach one?
Saban, God is the one that SEEKS those to worship Him we do not do the seeking He does and He seeks and finds those who He came to save to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. This is why I keep saying you must be born again of the word and the Spirit, John 3:1-6.
Saban, I cannot make you see these truth's God must seek you out and if He does you will see there is only one salvation plan and that is by grace through faith and this happens because Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins, literal water does not give one remission of sins no way, it is in the blood for without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgiveness of sins. It is not literal water baptism that forgives one of sins. Thank you. Gary.
<quoted text>
When Naaman was told to dip 7 times in the River Jordan was it the water that cleansed him? Or, was it the obedience to the command and the faith that led him to obey?

Same with baptism. I've never claimed there was anything special about the water. So I don't "have faith the water washes away sins", I believe in obedient faith in following Jesus' commands.

3 - Acts 2:38 tells us that.

4 - We're baptized into Christ. He shed the blood and he covers us with it in baptism and we are "in Christ" and become a member of his body the church.

You are right that there's ONE plan and it is very efficient.(Acts 2:38)

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32145 Jul 21, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
mister Bo
read King james bible,pray daily and don't worry about John_Wyclife
or RCC or protestants
your mind is to small like chicken small brain to know anything without of google search for internet fable links
Which King James Bible? The real one or the phony revised fraud?

Since: Aug 11

Santa Cruz, CA

#32146 Jul 21, 2013
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
whorever frenny
you are not pope,nor god to reject Bible and make new law according to your BS
take easy,make wood sword and start fight with windmills like Don Kichote La Mancha
I reject the fraudulent King James Revised. It isn't even good for toilet paper. Coloring book perhaps.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32147 Jul 21, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
No good deed goes unpunished.

"The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings. The Council decreed Wycliffe's works should be burned and his remains exhumed. On 6 July 1415, it also declared Hus a heretic, defrocked him, and had him burned at the stake. Hus' followers soon rebelled; while the Hussite Wars lasted between 1419 and 1434, the Hussite movement spread through Middle Europe. In 1428, at Pope Martin V's command, Wycliffe's corpse was exhumed and burned and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth."

So much for the guy who brought you one of the first English Bible translations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe
You know all are always told: "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

That is actually a post-Wycliffe forgery.

You would be surprised to read this from Wycliffe's original translation in 14th Century English:

"CAP 1

1 In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.

2 This was in the bigynnyng at God.

3 Alle thingis weren maad bi hym, and withouten hym was maad no thing, that thing that was maad.

4 In hym was lijf, and the lijf was the liyt of men; and the liyt schyneth in derknessis,
5 and derknessis comprehendiden not it."

And look at how the Bible Mills have presented Wycliffe's translation. Poor Wycliffe can't even turn into his grave as he was turned into ashes.:

"John 1:1-5 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.*****[In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word was at God, and God was the word.]*****

2 This was in the beginning at God.

3 All things were made by him, and without him was made nothing [nought], that thing that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men;
5 and the light shineth in darknesses, and [the] darknesses comprehended not it."

Emphasis shown by *****, is mine.

It is obvious that Jesus was not the word or Word. God was the word in the beginning. It was all about God.

The Church Heretics killed the honest 'heretic'. ;)

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#32148 Jul 21, 2013
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
We have so many "experts" here that do not know how to "rightly divide" the Word. For one, the church did not exist while Jesus lived. It came into being several weeks after His ascension. We see it come into place in Acts 2.
Paul was there when Stephen was stoned for his faith. Paul admitted persecuting Christians and thought at the time he was sincerely right with God in doing so.
Those "illiterate/unschooled " guys were given the abilities to speak in languages the'd never learned among many other miracles they had the power to perform. Perhaps if what you say is true about them it is additional evidence that what they communicated was directly from God.
Paul taught "the gospel" to many nations. It's silly to think he didn't preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
My main point was:

"Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Godís curse!"

Under this Clause, all the four writers of the NT gospels and the gospels stand under God's Curse, because Paul did not preach the four gospels.

For example, John's gospel came long, long after Paul and the writers of the other three gospels had expired.

Paul does not even refer to Jesus in his teachings. Do we see any where Paul telling people, "Jesus said .........."?

For example, let us take the Doctrine of Sin, founded by Paul. Paul came up with the basics of the Sin theory.

Did Jesus ever talk about Adam and Eve and their so-called Original Sin? The answer is NO! Right?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#32149 Jul 21, 2013
Hi Saban:

I don't know what else to tell you Saban what Naaman done had nothing to do with being baptized he went into the water by faith in what the Lord said, the water had nothing to do with faith

Saban, some how you want to lock being water baptized with the shedding of the blood of Christ it is the shedding of blood is given for the remission of sins not water baptism this is an act man does and we are not saved by any act we do it is all of the grace of God the faith is a gift of God.

Saban don't you know one cannot even repent unless God grants one the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

One is obedient to the word because God saved him or her and seals that one with His Spirit He does not seal one with [water baptism] the work in believing is all the work of God, John 6:29. This is why God shows the one what is the true salvation of the word he will understand salvation is all the work and miracle of God thus God alone gets all the glory. You see many want to add just a little or lot to God's salvation because God has not saved them by His word and His Spirit to acknowledge truth. Thus they will continue to be held captive by Satan at his will and they have no clue of this whatsoever. Many are very religious church goers thinking they are saved by something that they have done when God clearly tells us it is not the works of any righteousness which we have done but by His mercy He saves.

The pride of man just wants to add something to his salvation thus he makes void of the Spirit of grace.

Saban, the reason why one is obedient to the truth is because God has saved him he did not earn this or do anything before he was even born God had all this worked out, Eph. 1:4-6. When God breaks us of our pride we will humble our self and say there is nothing that I can do that can get myself saved if I could then it would not be of grace it would be a works gospel and that would mean Jesus died in vain.

The major problem that you have is, you do not believe that we are born sinners thus we really have no need of a Savior or to be born again. The sad thing is most churches do not even understand the core foundation of the biblical view of salvation sad to say, judgment is on the churches, 1 Peter 4:17, this is why they have fallen away from the most basic of truths as man kind is born dead in trespasses and in sins, Eph. 2:1, Romans 3:10-13

Most believe in a works gospel it could be you have to reach out and accept Jesus, you have to go to church, you have to get baptized, you have to repent, you have to believe and on and on it goes no body really knows how far some of these churches take it. It is all based on, ME, I, WE, same spirit as what made Satan fall, Isa. 14. God tells us it is not the will of man, Romans 9:16. One cannot will to be saved as many churches may teach they may say, before you leave this church God will save you. All they are doing is playing God they are there king maker just join up and follow us and we will get you saved. Sad this is what the church won't tell you. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
When Naaman was told to dip 7 times in the River Jordan was it the water that cleansed him? Or, was it the obedience to the command and the faith that led him to obey?
Same with baptism. I've never claimed there was anything special about the water. So I don't "have faith the water washes away sins", I believe in obedient faith in following Jesus' commands.
3 - Acts 2:38 tells us that.
4 - We're baptized into Christ. He shed the blood and he covers us with it in baptism and we are "in Christ" and become a member of his body the church.
You are right that there's ONE plan and it is very efficient.(Acts 2:38)
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32150 Jul 22, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
My main point was:
"Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under Godís curse!"
Under this Clause, all the four writers of the NT gospels and the gospels stand under God's Curse, because Paul did not preach the four gospels.
For example, John's gospel came long, long after Paul and the writers of the other three gospels had expired.
Paul does not even refer to Jesus in his teachings. Do we see any where Paul telling people, "Jesus said .........."?
For example, let us take the Doctrine of Sin, founded by Paul. Paul came up with the basics of the Sin theory.
Did Jesus ever talk about Adam and Eve and their so-called Original Sin? The answer is NO! Right?
Paul has no gospel. The gospel is Jesus' perfect life, his punishing death, burial, and resurrection for the sins of mankind.

Paul is telling the Christians at Galatia that if they hear of a belief that is contradictory to the teachings they had been taught (the gospel) to discard it as false teaching - even if it came from him or an angel of Heaven.

This warning is for us and the biblically unfounded tangents we are so willing to adhere to and follow as well. For instance, just look at the denominational organizations, worship practices and teachings that exist today that are not found in the first century church.
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32152 Jul 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I don't know what else to tell you Saban what Naaman done had nothing to do with being baptized he went into the water by faith in what the Lord said, the water had nothing to do with faith
Saban, some how you want to lock being water baptized with the shedding of the blood of Christ it is the shedding of blood is given for the remission of sins not water baptism this is an act man does and we are not saved by any act we do it is all of the grace of God the faith is a gift of God.
Saban don't you know one cannot even repent unless God grants one the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.
One is obedient to the word because God saved him or her and seals that one with His Spirit He does not seal one with [water baptism] the work in believing is all the work of God (removed)
Most believe in a works gospel it could be you have to reach out and accept Jesus, you have to go to church, you have to get baptized, you have to repent, you have to believe and on and on it goes no body really knows how far some of these churches take it. It is all based on, ME, I, WE, same spirit as what made Satan fall, Isa. 14. God tells us it is not the will of man, Romans 9:16. One cannot will to be saved as many churches may teach they may say, before you leave this church God will save you. All they are doing is playing God they are there king maker just join up and follow us and we will get you saved. Sad this is what the church won't tell you. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
So if Naaman had not gone into the water as he was commanded to do to be healed, he'd have been healed anyways?
You're right about my not believing we are born sinners. However, we all sin. When we are knowledgeable of that sin and what God through Jesus has done for us we are to do exactly what Peter first instructed in Acts 2:38, for the reason he gives in Acts 2:38, to receive the promise recorded in Acts 2:38.

Baptism is dying to sin (repent), being buried in the likeness of Christ and rising again (born again) to walk in "newness of life". Our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ and we are one with him ("in Christ", a member of His body or church, and a citizen of His Kingdom)
This is the ONE baptism we're taught about in Eph. 4:5. It's sad how so many denominations read about this ONE baptism yet they say they are baptized with the Holy Spirit (only citing the miracle-working Apostles and the theif on the cross as their examples) and then they also practice a water-baptism sometime later to "join" a church or as an outward sign of something that already happened inwardly. According to my math teachers, that's two baptisms denominations are teaching when Paul emphatically stated that there is only ONE.

Fact is, we can't " join" the church. In Acts 2 we read we are "added to" the church. Every example of baptism from Pentecost throughout the 1st Century church was the ONE baptism for remission of sins first taught by Peter (given the keys to the Kingdom) in Acts 2. There are no examples of people getting saved or saying a "sinners prayer" and sometime later being baptized to join a local church. None whatsoever!
This is one of the things Paul is warning us about when he says if I or an angel of heaven teaches you a different gospel than the one you've been taught.

Man teaches this is "works Salvation" but man cannot locate a scripture that says baptism is a work. Fact is: the work has already been done. The grace and mercy has been extended. We, like Naaman, only obey the command to get into the water.

ONE Baptism (Eph. 4:5)
Saban fan

Bronx, NY

#32153 Jul 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I don't know what else to tell you Saban what Naaman done had nothing to do with being baptized he went into the water by faith in what the Lord said, the water had nothing to do with faith
Saban, some how you want to lock being water baptized with the shedding of the blood of Christ it is the shedding of blood is given for the remission of sins not water baptism this is an act man does and we are not saved by any act we do it is all of the grace of God the faith is a gift of God.
Saban don't you know one cannot even repent unless God grants one the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.
One is obedient to the word because God saved him or her and seals that one with His Spirit He does not seal one with [water baptism] the work in believing is all the work of God, John 6:29. This is why God shows the one what is the true salvation of the word he will understand salvation is all the work and miracle of God thus God alone gets all the glory. You see many want to add just a little or lot to God's salvation because God has not saved them by His word and His Spirit to acknowledge truth. Thus they will continue to be held captive by Satan at his will and they have no clue of this whatsoever. Many are very religious church goers thinking they are saved by something that they have done when God clearly tells us it is not the works of any righteousness which we have done but by His mercy He saves.
The pride of man just wants to add something to his salvation thus he makes void of the Spirit of grace.
Saban, the reason why one is obedient to the truth is because God has saved him he did not earn this or do anything before he was even born God had all this worked out, Eph. 1:4-6. When God breaks us of our pride we will humble our self and say there is nothing that I can do that can get myself saved if I could then it would not be of grace it would be a works gospel and that would mean Jesus died in vain.
The major problem that you have is, you do not believe that we are born sinners thus we really have no need of a Savior or to be born again. The sad thing is most churches do not even understand the core foundation of the biblical view of salvation sad to say, judgment is on the churches, 1 Peter 4:17, this is why they have fallen away from the most basic of truths as man kind is born dead in trespasses and in sins, Eph. 2:1, Romans 3:10-13
Most believe in a works gospel it could be you have to reach out and accept Jesus, you have to go to church, you have to get baptized, you have to repent, you have to believe and on and on it goes no body really knows how far some of these churches take it. It is all based on, ME, I, WE, same spirit as what made Satan fall, Isa. 14. God tells us it is not the will of man, Romans 9:16. One cannot will to be saved as many churches may teach they may say, before you leave this church God will save you. All they are doing is playing God they are there king maker just join up and follow us and we will get you saved. Sad this is what the church won't tell you. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Naaman did the work?

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