What Your Church Won't Tell You by Dave and Gary Higgins

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Saban fan

Williamston, SC

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#32084
Jul 19, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
The act of water baptism is a work that man does this is just a basic fact Saban. You have to get in your car drive to a church or wherever and let some man physically dip you in some literal water, this is a work that man does and the fact is, he is not saved by any works he does in his power but it was always from faith to faith the word declares and we are saved by grace through faith least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. You see many love to boast in what they have done this is another fact and this is why the unsaved truly hate the pure gospel of grace alone apart from any work least any man should boast.
Now your isolating those verses in John 15:16 and using them for your private interpitation the Bible is not to be uses this way ALL scripture is given to us for our benefit read John 17, and you will see Jesus was not just talking to the prophets but all those that will believe after them also. Jesus said:
"Neither pray I for these ALONE, BUT FOR THEM ALSO WHICH SHALL BELIEVE ON ME
Saban, this is why you left out the other verses I gave you showing without any doubt that Jesus said:
"No man can come to me unless the Father which sent me draw him."
You see Saban, when many heard those words of Jesus many walked away and did not follow the Lord why? Because they knew there was nothing that they can do to merit salvation.
Now getting back to baptism Saban all you have to do is read Acts 1, and it will tell you what baptism one needs to be saved and that is being baptized by the Holy Spirit this is what saves one not some literal water.
"For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hense." John 1:5
This is why one must be saved by the word and by the Holy Spirit, John 3:1-6, 4:23, these are the true worshipers the verses declares
This is why Jesus said in, John 4.that He will give us living water not literal water hto no way the living water is the power of the gospel the word of God this is what cleanses us we see this in, Eph. 5:26 I quoted many times have you looked it up? We are washed by the water of the word, in 1 Peter 1:23, tells us that the word is what saves when applied by the Spirit of God.
Saban, I am sorry but your putting your trust in what your church is teaching in some literal work of water hto baptism when it must be the baptism of the Holy Spirit, water baptism was just a sign it had no saving power at all. Your trusting in what your doing by your act not by the power of God by grace through faith alone least any man should boast. I am sad to say, but people are just boasting in what they have done thinking it helped in some way in their salvation when all along they were never saved because they had a do it your self have it your way works gospel sad to say and no matter how much biblical proof I show one unless God the Holy Spirit removes the scales from their eyes they will never see truth in fact, God must be the one that gives one repentance to even acknowledge the truth if not they will continue be held captive by Satan at his will, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, now I know most hate this biblical fact that they cannot do anything to get themselves saved it is all of grace trough faith not of works least and man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
So you are baptized with the baptism that happened to the Apostles rather than the baptism they taught that added people to the church...

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32085
Jul 19, 2013
 
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
First, using readily verifiable, non-ontological evidence, you must prove that God exists, then prove that your translation of the Bible is approved by God.
Good luck with that.
Thanks for the help, but really, do you really think it will help?

I'm not sure they can be honest enough to admit these facts exist.

We've already seen "Gary" present "sad facts" that weren't factual at all. And we've seen him change around my posts to what he wanted them to read, just so he could try and mislead others. He really isn't a good source for the title of this forum.

The "dr." hasn't presented anything except his personal fantasies of what some parts of the human anatomy does.

And now we have Saban back-peddling his way back to his pew. He chose to divert from answering pertinent faith questions, probably because there was nothing he could find to support his position. So he realized that I was right, but couldn't be honest enough to admit that, because it does cause his beleif to desolve right before his eyes.

Me, being a non-Christian, have presented much more details that correlates tot he title of this forum than any of the believers on this forum have.

Maybe if they began to be honest with themselves and others, they would understand their failings. Denying the truths will not bring them to the truth.

*shrugs*

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32086
Jul 19, 2013
 
typo - **dissolve
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32089
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi New:

I answered your question from the word and told you no matter what proof I show you it is impossible for you to see it unless God grants you repentance to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

I hate to tell you, I told you so. I wish I was wrong truly I do. I also told you before the reason why you will not see this is, it takes faith this is the key and God must grant you faith to believe His word I cannot grant you this New, it must come from the grace of God, read Heb. 11 and Eph. 2:8-9 maybe who can tell maybe God will show you truth? I TRULY HOPE SO. Thank you. Gary
Gary wrote:
Hi New:
I am sorry but if you have carefully read the Bible you would see many places where God commands His prophets to write what He says In the book.
Now the sad fact is, no matter what proof you ask for it will not be good enough for you the reason being, God must give you the faith to believe His word.
New, you asked Saban to show me anywhere that God says write it in the Bible. The Bible means [book] here is one out of many places when God told Jeremiah to write what God says in a book.
"Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein ALL THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all nations, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day: Jer. 36:2, read Jer. 36:1-4
New, I quoted this verse and many more in past posts to show how God formed His word and He made sure it was preserved unto this day because nothing is to hard for Him. This was no big job for God to have His word protected this is what the Lord said, heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall never pass away. Now the fact is New, you will find an exuse not to believe this truth from God's word unless He gives you the faith to believe His word, John 6:29. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32090
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi New:

Just think about this what you stated below New and ask your self this question?

If Gary is wrong what does he lose? If Gary is right that ALL scripture is God breathed as it states then what do I lose when I mock the words of God? New, just some basic logic here I know but it is so important if you find out to late you were wrong! Thank you. Gary
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
It has already been proven by many people that the Bible has been changed to fit the theology of those men doing the changing, or through scribal errors, or just plain missing words on accident or on purpose.
"I'm sorry", but you'll have to dig a little deeper to prove your position to me.
Please post your support or citation that has "God" stating that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired.
"I am sorry but if you have carefully read the Bible you would see many places where God commands His prophets to write what He says In the book."
- You are sorry? For what?
- People write many things that they want to express to others as "true". Do you have any other sources that support your conclusion?
- With using your logic in the above statement, you must also accept and believe Edgar Cayce as a prophet, as what he prophecized had come true at many times. Do you?
"Now the sad fact is, no matter what proof you ask for it will not be good enough for you the reason being, God must give you the faith to believe His word."
- a "sad fact"? Huh? facts have no emotional connection, unless only derived by the one adding the adjective to their statement, as you have.
- What is so sad about me asking you to prove what you say is true? Are you expecting me to jsut take your word for it? You really haven't given me any truths so far, what makes you think you have any truth to what you say?
+ this is the "sad fact" that you are talking about, right?
- let's stop aminute and get some clarity on this portion ofyour statement: "God must give you the faith to believe His word."
+ Yes Gary - not Gary, but "God". Why do you think you can help? Do you have this arrogant level about you that puts you like "God"?
+ If "God" would just let the world know of "His word", then I guess there wouldn't be many like me who object that the writings of men are not "of God". That is something I do have faith in.
In fact, I have more faith in Jesus than you do. So that goes to show that you are much less informed than I.
Unless you are going to dispute this fact too. Are you going to?
"Now the fact is New, you will find an exuse not to believe this truth from God's word unless He gives you the faith to believe His word, John 6:29"
- You are projecting again Gary. Please stop thinking you know what I will do.
- I've told you many times, I don't beleive men can define an infallible being, whereas you do. I think you have your facts reversed. As asked, why don't you believe in all of what Jesus taught?
And for "God's sake", please respond with honesty.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32092
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi Saban:

I am sorry but your avoiding my questions and points like they are not there. You have to deal with those points that I have raised by you just saying, here I proved my points does not prove anything that I said in my last posts to you Saban. This is what happens when one cannot deal with the word. Fact, water baptism does not save anyone it is a work that man does it is a picture that points to salvation but it is not salvation but a picture a shadow if you will and yes God did tell us to believe and be baptized but your missing what the baptism one truly needs that truly can cleanse one Eph. 5:26 the washing of the water by the word. Saban, it is not hto water but the word and the Spirit and I showed you in Acts 1, we must be baptized by the Holy Spirit not by some literal hto water that saves one no way this is a work and we are not saved by any work that we do we are saved by grace through faith and this is all the work of God that one believes on Him, John 6?:29. The Greek rendering for baptism means, to cleanse, wash, and to purify. The word and the Spirit does this Saban it is not literal water this is why the Bible is a spiritual book because to understand it one must be born again by the word and the Spirit do you believe this? Please think about this because these are two different gospels altogether Saban one is of man the other is of God alone.

Now no matter what I share with you I am sorry it will not register with you because God alone has to make His salvation plan real to you. I believe salvation is all the work of God, thus God gets all the glory which is the way it should be, you believe it is the work of man in what he does there is the vast difference here Saban.

You know it amazes me, no offense here and I truly mean this how God hides the most basic truth's from some very smart people read, 2 Cor. 4:3-5. I do not fault you nor anyone here if God wants to reveal spiritual truth to one He first must save them by His word and His Spirit and all this takes a real miracle and work of God not of the works of man least he should boast, Eph. 2:8-9. Many people say they believe and get water baptized and they have no real change of life because they were not baptized with the Holy Spirit all they did was get wet sad to say. When one is truly saved by the word and the Spirit he will agree with the word that puts it all in harmony with the whole of God's salvation plan. He will not disagree with God's salvation by grace through faith alone not of any works least any man should boast. I repeat this because it is most important. In most verses where you hear the words baptized or baptism in most cases it means to wash, cleanse, and purify. Most think it means hto literal water when it means to cleanse and this can only happen by the word and the Spirit. Thank you. Gary
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact is: it's ONLY considered a work because YOU say it is a work. The Bible doesn't say submitting to Baptism for the remission of sins (which we are commanded to do - Acts 2:38) is a work.
Submitting to this commandment is obedience.
Additionally as we see with Philip and the Eunuch, teaching about Jesus cannot be separated from teaching baptism.
Thank you for proving my point.
Holy Spirit baptism like the Apostles received doesn't take place anymore Gary. If it did you'd be able to speak in languages you'd never learned.
Remember the comment about childish things and when that which is perfect had come we could put away the childish things (instant miracles to confirm God's Word such as Speaking in tongues).
Perhaps it is you, Gary, that needs a better foundation in the teachings of the Bible (that which is perfect that has come). Your "church" is apparently misleading you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#32093
Jul 19, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi New:
Just think about this what you stated below New and ask your self this question?
If Gary is wrong what does he lose? If Gary is right that ALL scripture is God breathed as it states then what do I lose when I mock the words of God? New, just some basic logic here I know but it is so important if you find out to late you were wrong! Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I've asked my "Self" this many times. And you know what, my "Self" has continuously steered me in accepting all of what Jesus taught, because I can believe that Jesus teaches things that are clear and sincere in what he states, including GoThomas. You seemed to only accept what men have chosen you, and I what our Father has asked of me.

Are you going to dispute this?

That would be arrogant to think you are better than I in any manner. Not a good trait to profess openly to others.

"If Gary is wrong what does he lose? If Gary is right that ALL scripture is God breathed as it states then what do I lose when I mock the words of God?"
- anyone can apply this to any man-made texts, inclusive of many religions. Your argument only works for those who physically speaks out against the invalid doctrine prescribed to you.

You only have hope and faith, just like anyone. You aren't in secret conversations with "God", except only through your own mind and you aren't psychic enough to know what I or anyone can or can't do, or think.

If you could do any of those things, please prove your abilities. If you can't prove your abilities, then admit that I am correct - through honesty with yourself and your "God".

If one is of the Light, then one will become the Light.

(11) Jesus says:

(1) "This heaven will pass away, and the (heaven) above it will pass away.
(2) And the dead are not alive, and the living will not died.
(3) In the days when you consumed what was dead, you made it alive.
When you are in the light, what will you do?
(4) On the day when you were one, you became two.
But when you become two, what will you do?

(24)

(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."

Through honesty the dismay will change to astonishment. Through denial, the light diminishes.

Why don't you believe Jesus again?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32094
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi Dr:

I can only speak for myself here. I know for a fact that if it was not for the grace and mercy of God I could be the worst of sinners here. However, for some reason I don't really know because I did not deserve God's mercy more than anyone else that's for sure but He had mercy on me so I am what I am only by the mercy of God. I fully understand why some will rebel against the word I was one of them and I still need the mercy of God every second of the day the only difference is, maybe I became a better begger because I know how much I need His mercy, Psalm 51. Thank you. Gary
Dr shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
he doesn't find anything now late and to late,
blindness and proud doesn't allow him to hear or see
Bible call such poor sinners perdestined to die
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32095
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi New:

I have a couple of questions for you maybe you can answer them.

1- What does Go Thomas mean?

2- You state you believe all what Jesus taught. However, why don't you ever quote from the Lord Jesus Christ?

New, I do not believe I am better or any worse than you, I am what I am only by the grace and mercy of God that's it.

You did not answer my questions New, If I am right in believing the whole Bible what do I lose? If you are wrong in not believing the whole of God's word what do you lose? If I am wrong what do I lose? If you are wrong what do you lose? This has nothing to do with being arrogant it is just a basic question New that's all. Thank you. Gary.
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I've asked my "Self" this many times. And you know what, my "Self" has continuously steered me in accepting all of what Jesus taught, because I can believe that Jesus teaches things that are clear and sincere in what he states, including GoThomas. You seemed to only accept what men have chosen you, and I what our Father has asked of me.
Are you going to dispute this?
That would be arrogant to think you are better than I in any manner. Not a good trait to profess openly to others.
"If Gary is wrong what does he lose? If Gary is right that ALL scripture is God breathed as it states then what do I lose when I mock the words of God?"
- anyone can apply this to any man-made texts, inclusive of many religions. Your argument only works for those who physically speaks out against the invalid doctrine prescribed to you.
You only have hope and faith, just like anyone. You aren't in secret conversations with "God", except only through your own mind and you aren't psychic enough to know what I or anyone can or can't do, or think.
If you could do any of those things, please prove your abilities. If you can't prove your abilities, then admit that I am correct - through honesty with yourself and your "God".
If one is of the Light, then one will become the Light.
(11) Jesus says:
(1) "This heaven will pass away, and the (heaven) above it will pass away.
(2) And the dead are not alive, and the living will not died.
(3) In the days when you consumed what was dead, you made it alive.
When you are in the light, what will you do?
(4) On the day when you were one, you became two.
But when you become two, what will you do?
(24)
(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
Through honesty the dismay will change to astonishment. Through denial, the light diminishes.
Why don't you believe Jesus again?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32096
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi New

Sorry, I mean why don't you quote chapter and verse in he Bible God's word? Thank you. Gary
Gary

Buffalo, NY

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#32097
Jul 19, 2013
 
Hi New

Have you ever thought when you state you only believe Jesus words. Did you ever think when you say you only believe in Jesus words they were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, New, these are the people who wrote those words do you believe them also? Thank you. Gary
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32098
Jul 20, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus taught and preached true repentance, righteousness and faith in God Almighty, while Paul taught and preached only faith in Jesus.
Peter did not know what Paul had done in Hebrews 1.
I would like to bring up Paul's Hebrews 1 and let us first see what he really wrote himself.
This is how Hebrews 1 will look like, before his copying and pasting from the Jewish Scriptures. Please note that there was no OT when Paul was alive.
"1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."
In above lines of his own, he shows Jesus superior to angels.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,(Paul's own line)
He copied and pasted Psalm 2:7, 2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chron. 17:13.
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,(Paul's own line)
He copied and pasted Deut. 32:43 (see Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint)
7 In speaking of the angels he says,(Paul's own line)
He copied and pasted Psalm 104:4
8 But about the Son he says,(Paul's own line)
He copied and pasted Psalm 45:6,7
10 He also says,(Paul's own line)
He copies and pastes Psalm 102:25-27
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,(Paul's own line)
He copies and pastes Psalm 110:1
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?(Paul's own last line)
That is really Paul's FRAUD!
God calling Jesus "God, O'God"?
If one reads carefully, one can find that Paul deceived people through Hebrews 1, as if God had really said what David had said about God?
??
Scripture is quoted throughout the NT.

The OT did exist when Paul and Peter were preaching. Not in hardback bound format, but it did exist and the Jews had been taught from it.

No one knows for sure who penned Hebrews.

Hebrews as well as Paul's writings and Peter's writings etc were all led by the Spirit of God himself.

As far as what Jesus taught as compared to the others:

Jesus taught about His Kingdom. He said that many standing there would not taste death until his Kingdom had come with power. It did come with power in Acts 2. The writers from there on taught about entrance into the Lords Kingdom, how it was to be organized, how it should worship, how it should behave etc. The Spirit gave them the words to say and the words to write.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32099
Jul 20, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
My post to Saban is restated below, not your rendition.....
"- please show a citation and support for the citation that shows "God" had any say in the writings of the Bible."
This is a two part statement.
A. post the statement that shows "God" had anything to say with the writings, so you post an OT text.
B. Support the citation to show that it was an accurate statement.
You still have another citation to present.....
- one that supports "God" said this, and two, one that supports it was from "God" and not jsut something someone wrote.
- Again, one must present an unbiased citation, in order to show unbiased research and study.
So far you haven't done this.
2 Tim. 3:16-17 claims inspiration and was written after many of the NT books had been written and in circulation for up to 15 years.

In 2 Peter 3:16 Peter placed Paul's writings on par with the OT scriptures when he compared them to "the rest of Scriptures".

Paul quoted Luke 10:7 as scripture. He also indicated he wrote "by the Word of The Lord"
1 Thess. 4:15
Gal. 1:12

If, as I believe and we are told, God inspired their words and writings through His Spirit, God said the things you are questioning me about.

People should really take time to prayerfully consider what they may be doing when they attempt to discredit Paul or any portion of Scripture.

We are either working with God or against God.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32100
Jul 20, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the help, but really, do you really think it will help?
I'm not sure they can be honest enough to admit these facts exist.
We've already seen "Gary" present "sad facts" that weren't factual at all. And we've seen him change around my posts to what he wanted them to read, just so he could try and mislead others. He really isn't a good source for the title of this forum.
The "dr." hasn't presented anything except his personal fantasies of what some parts of the human anatomy does.
And now we have Saban back-peddling his way back to his pew. He chose to divert from answering pertinent faith questions, probably because there was nothing he could find to support his position. So he realized that I was right, but couldn't be honest enough to admit that, because it does cause his beleif to desolve right before his eyes.
Me, being a non-Christian, have presented much more details that correlates tot he title of this forum than any of the believers on this forum have.
Maybe if they began to be honest with themselves and others, they would understand their failings. Denying the truths will not bring them to the truth.
*shrugs*
Just what we're warned Satan is, a deceiver. he needs people like you - he's a good recruiter.
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32101
Jul 20, 2013
 
Gary wrote:
Hi Saban:
I am sorry but your avoiding my questions and points like they are not there. You have to deal with those points that I have raised by you just saying, here I proved my points does not prove anything that I said in my last posts to you Saban. This is what happens when one cannot deal with the word. Fact, water baptism does not save anyone it is a work that man does it is a picture that points to salvation but it is not salvation but a picture a shadow if you will and yes God did tell us to believe and be baptized but your missing what the baptism one truly needs that truly can cleanse one Eph. 5:26 the washing of the water by the
Now no matter what I share with you I am sorry it will not register with you because God alone has to make His salvation plan real to you. I believe salvation is all the work of God, thus God gets all the glory which is the way it should be, you believe it is the work of man in what he does there is the vast difference here Saban.
<quoted text>
You say it is a "fact" that submitting to baptism as commanded by Jesus and taught throughout every conversion example after Pentecost is "a work". Yet you present NO documentation of scripture to back up your man-made argument.
You obviously think you are due the baptism the Apostles received rather than submitting to the one they taught.

If water has nothing to do with it why was the Eunuch excited to see water in Acts 8? We're not even told that Philip preached baptism to the Eunuch. We're told Philip preached Jesus to the Eunuch. Yet, somehow, preaching Jesus led to the Eunuch's desire to be buried in baptism. They went into the water together. After the Eunuch made the confession he believed Jesus was the son of God Philip baptized him.

O, Pharisee, did the Eunuch commit a work?
Even though it was a different baptism than the one the Eunuch submitted to, did the Apostles commit a work when they followed instructions to stay in Jerusalem and wait?

You are correct that we are saved by grace through faith. If not for grace there is no way we could get to Heaven. If we do not follow God's commands, there are no works that can earn Heaven for us (Matt. 7:21 - does this require anything that could be construed a work?)
The Eunuch had to study and listen - I don't suppose you'd suggest this is a work even though school"work" feels like work!

Have I "boasted" of baptism that anyone could submit themselves to as you have boasted of being predestined by God to be saved while others, according to you, will not be given a chance or a choice by God?

Baptism is the way we receive remission of sins (acts 2:38), have our sins washed away (Acts 22:16), are saved (1 Pet. 3:21), are added to the Lord's church (Acts 2:47), and are translated out of darkness (Col. 1:13-14)

The Pentecostians ((Acts 2), Saul of Tarsus (acts 9, 22, 26), Cornelius (Acts 10), the Philippian jailor (Acts 16) were all, among others, baptized. When they were they put on Christ (Gal. 3:27), were made free from sin (Rom. 6:17-18), and benefit from Jesus' death (Rom. 6:3-4).

Baptism is THE WAY "into" Jesus Christ. Some may be baptized for the wrong reasons, if so it wasn't a proper baptism and they should be re-baptized for the remission of their sins.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32102
Jul 20, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
<quoted text>
??
Scripture is quoted throughout the NT.

The OT did exist when Paul and Peter were preaching. Not in hardback bound format, but it did exist and the Jews had been taught from it.
No one knows for sure who penned Hebrews.
Hebrews as well as Paul's writings and Peter's writings etc were all led by the Spirit of God himself.
As far as what Jesus taught as compared to the others:
Jesus taught about His Kingdom. He said that many standing there would not taste death until his Kingdom had come with power. It did come with power in Acts 2. The writers from there on taught about entrance into the Lords Kingdom, how it was to be organized, how it should worship, how it should behave etc. The Spirit gave them the words to say and the words to write.
There is a difference between quoting the scripture and adding scripture to one's personal lines.

For example the author of Hebrews 1 wrote:

"8 But God said this about his Son:“God, your throne will last forever and ever. You will rule your kingdom with fairness. You love right and hate evil, so God has chosen you from among your friends; he has set you apart with much joy.”

It cannot be considered quoting scripture. Paul or the person is clearly misinforming the readers by telling them that God said that about his son.

Actually it was not even God saying anything at all. It was David, who had said, "God, your throne will last forever and ever."

Let us look at this and see how gross it is:

"10 God also says,

“Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the skies.
11 They will be destroyed, but you will remain.
They will all wear out like clothes.
12 You will fold them like a coat.
And, like clothes, you will change them.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”

That was not God. That was David again. David was talking about the LORD. How could that be used to show as if God called Jesus, Lord?

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

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#32103
Jul 20, 2013
 
Saban fan wrote:
The OT did exist when Paul and Peter were preaching. Not in hardback bound format, but it did exist and the Jews had been taught from it.

No one knows for sure who penned Hebrews.
I would like to clarify that the Jews were never taught from the Christians' OT. Neither do they recite it nor do they touch it.

They had their own Scriptures in Hebrew. OT was copied from the Septuagint and other translations, which are not considered Jewish holy Scriptures.

When Jesus read a part of Isaiah, he did not read it in Greek. Right?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32104
Jul 20, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I've asked my "Self" this many times. And you know what, my "Self" has continuously steered me in accepting all of what Jesus taught, because I can believe that Jesus teaches things that are clear and sincere in what he states, including GoThomas. You seemed to only accept what men have chosen you, and I what our Father has asked of me.
Are you going to dispute this?
That would be arrogant to think you are better than I in any manner. Not a good trait to profess openly to others.
"If Gary is wrong what does he lose? If Gary is right that ALL scripture is God breathed as it states then what do I lose when I mock the words of God?"
- anyone can apply this to any man-made texts, inclusive of many religions. Your argument only works for those who physically speaks out against the invalid doctrine prescribed to you.
You only have hope and faith, just like anyone. You aren't in secret conversations with "God", except only through your own mind and you aren't psychic enough to know what I or anyone can or can't do, or think.
If you could do any of those things, please prove your abilities. If you can't prove your abilities, then admit that I am correct - through honesty with yourself and your "God".
If one is of the Light, then one will become the Light.
(11) Jesus says:
(1) "This heaven will pass away, and the (heaven) above it will pass away.
(2) And the dead are not alive, and the living will not died.
(3) In the days when you consumed what was dead, you made it alive.
When you are in the light, what will you do?
(4) On the day when you were one, you became two.
But when you become two, what will you do?
(24)
(1) His disciples said: "Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light, and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
Through honesty the dismay will change to astonishment. Through denial, the light diminishes.
Why don't you believe Jesus again?
You're reading what men said Jesus said. By your definition of Paul's writings, how do you claim the teachings of Jesus, as recorded by men, are accurately recorded? How do you know they are the words of Jesus. Where is your proof?!
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32105
Jul 20, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
I would like to clarify that the Jews were never taught from the Christians' OT. Neither do they recite it nor do they touch it.
They had their own Scriptures in Hebrew. OT was copied from the Septuagint and other translations, which are not considered Jewish holy Scriptures.
When Jesus read a part of Isaiah, he did not read it in Greek. Right?
I thought the OT for the most part was penned in Hebrew. Who had them in any other language that was not first translated from the Hebrew language?

Are you saying there were no Jews converted to Christianity that could read Hebrew?
Saban fan

Decatur, AL

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#32106
Jul 20, 2013
 
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a difference between quoting the scripture and adding scripture to one's personal lines.
For example the author of Hebrews 1 wrote:
"8 But God said this about his Son:“God, your throne will last forever and ever. You will rule your kingdom with fairness. You love right and hate evil, so God has chosen you from among your friends; he has set you apart with much joy.”
It cannot be considered quoting scripture. Paul or the person is clearly misinforming the readers by telling them that God said that about his son.
Actually it was not even God saying anything at all. It was David, who had said, "God, your throne will last forever and ever."
Let us look at this and see how gross it is:
"10 God also says,
“Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the skies.
11 They will be destroyed, but you will remain.
They will all wear out like clothes.
12 You will fold them like a coat.
And, like clothes, you will change them.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”
That was not God. That was David again. David was talking about the LORD. How could that be used to show as if God called Jesus, Lord?
One's personal lines???

Beyond knowing they came from God's Spirit, you can't even prove who wrote Hebrews to know who's 'personal lines' they are.

Do you not think God recognizes the kingdom as His Son's? It belongs to Christ. He is the King of His Kingdom. Jesus is Lord.

The book of Hebrews points out the differences in the Old Covenant and the perfect New Covenant. There's no wonder why there would be many references to the Hebrew Scriptures and the fulfillment of the law therein that Jesus the Christ fulfilled.

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