What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30768 Apr 2, 2013
Dear all:

We are living in a time when most have no fear of God. You see God tells us that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, this fear has much to do with God's judgment it declares it is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of an angry God. Many on that day will have no more pride they will know without doubt who the saved was and who the unsaved religious were, Matthew 25 tells us about the 10 vigins the five were wise the five were foolish. When it came to midnight a picture of judgment day the five foolish virgins these were the ones that thought they were saved found out that they were not for some reason they will be asking the five wise for oil [salvation] in their lamps in them. Something will happen I don't know what that is that will make the five foolsh know without doubt that they are not saved and who is saved it maybe supernatual at this time being the beginning ofjudgent day for the unsaved, they will go and maybe talk to their pastor or someone why they are not saved and how to become saved they thought they had the true gospel but at this time everything will be exposed they will no without doubt they were not saved and when they come back to the five wise virgins they will find out that the door was shut and they were gone and left behind all hope at this time for salvation will be forever lost just the judgment of God those that knew the masters will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes those that did not know the masters will will be beaten with few stripes, For the unsaved religious ones who gave a different foundation of the nature of salvation are called the blind leaders of the blind, Matthew 3, Jesus tells this group of people that greater is your damnation. There will be a greater degree of damnation for these people what it is I do not know but I would not want to be here for the few stripes.

The gospel is nothing to triffel with many who believe to be saved by what they have done by their own [free will] will find out they have been snared into a false sense of security and will fulfill Matthew 7:22-23. Many will say on that day to the Lord they will say Lord, Lord, have WE NOT declared thy name, have we not cast out devils and last of all which is the HUGE snare for many will say, Lord, have WE not done many wonderful WORKS in thy name?

Jesus will expose them and they will know without doubt when He says these shocking words to them, depart from me you that WORK wickedness! You see God calls their wonderful works, works of wickedness because it all was built on their will not the will of God. Now no matter if Jesus was here Himself telling us this many would just mock Him and tell him it is our will that saves us. You see in a very real way God is here when the word of God is being spoken this puts all of us under the test will we bow down to the word of God or will we lash back and say I don't believe those words it is of my will that made me saved, my [free will] has done this it was my works they were wonderful works. You see the very, sad shock these dear people will be under? I truly don't know anything more shocking to truly believe you were saved to find out you had a do it your self gospel or you just did not care what God said you just wanted those verses to mean what you wanted them to fit into your [[free will] wonderful works gospel that is all built on the pride of man sad to say.

From now on I will only talk to people who are truly serious about learning more about the true nature of the word of God I will no longer keep casting the pearls of God's wonderful word just to see it trampled down or made light of. I will shut the rain off on these souls.

"Of how much sorer punishment, supose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,an holy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Heb. 10:29. Gary

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30769 Apr 2, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
I am sorry but you spoke volumes when you said, "The Bible does not tell us anything"
Waste, it would be a [Waste] of time to share with you without the word we all would be lost. However, I undestand you do not see any value in the word of God so ths is all just a [Waste] to you I understand, I cannot help you. Time will tell you if it was truly a [Waste] to you on judgment day. Jesus said, His word shall judge us on that last day. Believe it or not time will tell. Gary.
<quoted text>
Hello my brother!! God's Word tells us this very thing you state, as you well know.

Matt. 7:

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

The stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel are unworthy to have it preached unto them.

A pearl is known among the Greeks for its oriental brightness: and a pearl was in ancient times greatly valued by the Latins: for a pearl that Cleopatra had was valued at two hundred and fifty thousand crowns: and the word is now borrowed from that, to signify the most precious heavenly doctrine.~Geneva Study

Give not that which is holy unto dogs. The dog was regarded an unclean animal by the Jewish law. They probably represent snarling, scoffing opposers. The characteristic of dogs is brutality. To try to instill holy things into such low, unclean, and sordid brutal minds is useless.

Neither cast ye your pearls before swine. The swine were also unclean. They would have no use for pearls, and perhaps would rush upon those who scattered the pearls. So, too, there are men so dull, imbruted and senseless, as to reject the pearls of truth. It is our duty to help and to try to save others, but we must use common sense.~People's NT

God Bless you with the sharing of His Word!!

>^o^<

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#30770 Apr 2, 2013
Gary Higgs wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi G-9:
Your right, but this is not easy for many to understand that is, faith first must come from God, it is called one of the fruits of the Spirit of God, Gal. 5:22-23, Jesus is the author and finisher of ones faith, Because He that has done the good WORK in you, will perform it until the day of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us. The churches today, will tell you something like this, you can know you are saved today by just saying this prayer, join the church, make a confession and your in. When the fact is, the salvation plan of God is all the work of God.
"Jesus answered and said, This is the WORK of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29.
Sinse it is all the work of God that we believe on Him, thus He gets all the glory in the work of the salvation. However, this is not what you are hearing in the churches today. They have formulated a do it your self, have it your way, kind of man made gospel that is built ALL on self, "I have accepted Jesus." There is much to say about this subject for just one block maybe more can share verses in the Bible for example, what do you make of, Eph. 1:4-6, for starters? Any takers? I believe this will show us just who is in charge of the salvation plan. Thank you for that point you have made, it may have been a short point but it takes much to explain this because it goes to the very heart of true salvation verses a man made salvation. This is something that you have hit on that would be well worth going into more detail. Again, thank you for pondering this point. Gary
Well said!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30771 Apr 2, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should speak to the Jews and Rabbis about that. They would differ with you greatly. If it had not been as such, it would not have been in the OT. Yes, today that would be nearly impossible. There was a much smaller populous of the Jews required to adhere to those laws at that time. The sacrifices merely shadowed what was to come with the final sacrifice of Christ. Animal sacrifice offered NO eternal salvation.
Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect.
10:1-10 The apostle having shown that the tabernacle, and ordinances of the covenant of Sinai, were only emblems and types of the gospel, concludes that the sacrifices the high priests offered continually, could not make the worshippers perfect, with respect to pardon, and the purifying of their consciences. But when God manifested in the flesh, became the sacrifice, and his death upon the accursed tree the ransom, then the Sufferer being of infinite worth, his free-will sufferings were of infinite value. The atoning sacrifice must be one capable of consenting, and must of his own will place himself in the sinner's stead: Christ did so. The fountain of all that Christ has done for his people, is the sovereign will and grace of God. The righteousness brought in, and the sacrifice once offered by Christ, are of eternal power, and his salvation shall never be done away. They are of power to make all the comers thereunto perfect; they derive from the atoning blood, strength and motives for obedience, and inward comfort.~ http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/hebrews/10.htm
>^o^<
They say two things.

1. All the sacrifices ended with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. Since Hebrew Scripture says nothing about ending such practices, they must come up with another way. They do this by practicing mitzvas which are usually about helping the needy.

2. They say they do the best they can.

Either way, they are not taking the written word literally. Neither did Jesus. The Gospels cannot be understood without learning of Jewish religious practices.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30772 Apr 2, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
So you still sacrifice cows and sheep daily as the Old Covenant requires? Jesus sacrifice fulfilled the Old Covenant. It ended all sacrifices and included the Gentiles and the rest of the world that had not yet been discovered and reached into the flock of Christ.
John 10:
10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Many Jewish people had already ended sacrificial practices. They didn't need a covenant. Jesus made no such covenant per se.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30773 Apr 2, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
I am sorry but you spoke volumes when you said, "The Bible does not tell us anything"
Waste, it would be a [Waste] of time to share with you without the word we all would be lost. However, I undestand you do not see any value in the word of God so ths is all just a [Waste] to you I understand, I cannot help you. Time will tell you if it was truly a [Waste] to you on judgment day. Jesus said, His word shall judge us on that last day. Believe it or not time will tell. Gary.
<quoted text>
The goal of a so-called "Christian":

- tell someone they need the Bible to be saved, but after further consideration, bellow out "it would be a waste of time" to help share the information with them. So instead, they cease the dialogue because tehy can't answer honestly. This also shows they really don't have any clue on their spirituality or belief -because they never researched it, and will just play ignorance.

*sighs*

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30774 Apr 2, 2013
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
We are living in a time when most have no fear of God. You see God tells us that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, this fear has much to do with God's judgment it declares it is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of an angry God. Many on that day will have no more pride they will know without doubt who the saved was and who the unsaved religious were, Matthew 25 tells us about the 10 vigins the five were wise the five were foolish. When it came to midnight a picture of judgment day the five foolish virgins these were the ones that thought they were saved found out that they were not for some reason they will be asking the five wise for oil [salvation] in their lamps in them. Something will happen I don't know what that is that will make the five foolsh know without doubt that they are not saved and who is saved it maybe supernatual at this time being the beginning ofjudgent day for the unsaved, they will go and maybe talk to their pastor or someone why they are not saved and how to become saved they thought they had the true gospel but at this time everything will be exposed they will no without doubt they were not saved and when they come back to the five wise virgins they will find out that the door was shut and they were gone and left behind all hope at this time for salvation will be forever lost just the judgment of God those that knew the masters will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes those that did not know the masters will will be beaten with few stripes, For the unsaved religious ones who gave a different foundation of the nature of salvation are called the blind leaders of the blind, Matthew 3, Jesus tells this group of people that greater is your damnation. There will be a greater degree of damnation for these people what it is I do not know but I would not want to be here for the few stripes.
Gary
(snipped to respond)
How do you know what "God" wants and what "He" doesn't want?
A: Oh yeah, by other men trying to define "Him".
With all this supposed knowledge of "God", how come no one has ever heard of you before?
A: because you are a self-righteous person trying to pull the wool over other people's eyes, through being dishonest with those you preach to and also to yourself, all the while, not knowing anything except what men have told you to believe.
For you to say emphatically that you don't follow men, you sure quote them, use them and pander after them in your posts.
You are clueless.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30775 Apr 2, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
I am sorry but you spoke volumes when you said, "The Bible does not tell us anything"
Waste, it would be a [Waste] of time to share with you without the word we all would be lost. However, I undestand you do not see any value in the word of God so ths is all just a [Waste] to you I understand, I cannot help you. Time will tell you if it was truly a [Waste] to you on judgment day. Jesus said, His word shall judge us on that last day. Believe it or not time will tell. Gary.
<quoted text>
Why are you complaining. I addressed your words directly. Unless you can prove your God exists and had direct input into what was written in the Bible, I must assume the Bible comes from the creative minds of those you wrote it.

Now you are changing your tune. Instead of using "God's Word," you have switched to the phrase, "Word of God," which means exactly what I posted previously, e.g. "from the creative mind of the men who wrote the Bible."

So which is it Gary?

Gary. What makes you think you can help anyone? You can't even help yourself. This is just a big ego trip you are on right?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30776 Apr 2, 2013
Gary wrote:

From now on I will only talk to people who are truly serious about learning more about the true nature of the word of God I will no longer keep casting the pearls of God's wonderful word just to see it trampled down or made light of. I will shut the rain off on these souls.

New Age writes:

Selfishness is a common theme with so-called "Christians".

It is shrouded in self-righteousness, as you seem to post above.

"I will shut the rain off on these souls".
- Stop lying, as you can't do diddley squat.
- Your pride and arrogance is why you won't make it to any heaven

Move past the words and understand their meanings.

I'll pray for you to gain understanding.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30777 Apr 2, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
"my defense mechanism". LOL, you've got that right. After 5 years on Topix it is an active force. Especially after the erroneously labeled "Christian Forum".
Well, I would like to think that becoming defensive was unnecessary with me. I hope you remember that when everyone was trying to turn me against you, I made it clear that I was judging you by your present behavior and not by your past, and also the fact that you had never done anything to me. You know I love you. And based on personal experiences with so-called "Christians" and as sad as it is to say it, I believe the label of the "Christian Forum" is most appropriate. This one, though, is the "Top Stories" forum.
HES wrote:
We're reading the same thing. The are millions of interpretations of the same thing.
And that's the problem. And that's why I've dedicated so much time researching what I have. And I believe my approach makes all the difference. I've never studied only to reinforce what's already taught and accepted. If I did, then I'd be forced to choose from the myriad of denominations that already exist.
HES wrote:
The difference between you and me and others is that you believe your interpretation is correct and ours is wrong.
To an extent, yes. And I've good reason, too. Again, I don't study only to reinforce that which is already taught and accepted. Most accept beliefs that are based on dogma that became foundation when our resources were limited and continued into our day. I refuse to believe without investigation.
HES wrote:
I only share my beliefs as mine. Some things though have to be twisted beyond comprehension to get the meaning some come up with from scripture.
And that's why I like to quote verses without adding personal interpretations.
HES wrote:
Ahh, of course. I misunderstand that the very words you posted and denied that I pointed out is misunderstanding when you wrote it yourself. Try that one in a court of law. Mass fail.
I think not. My intended meaning was that it wasn't actually me that stated anything. Again, I only repeated that which was previously written.
HES wrote:
You may not need commentaries from others, but some may. I only state those that share my beliefs.
Problem.
HES wrote:
I search through various scripture analysis until I find one that matches mine.
Problem.
HES wrote:
It's more concise to use that approach in these posts. However, you happen to be man too so your findings are no more valid than any other may be.
How do you know whether I'm a chosen vessel or not? Didn't our anointed Savior try to explain to the priests and lawyers how they were misunderstanding the very law they were dedicated to learn and teach? Did not the same misunderstand, or even ignore, the prophecies regarding the Messiah?
HES wrote:
I fear when you speak of humility, or lack of it, you are just deflecting self. I find nothing humble in your book~learning superiority of the Bible without being Born Again and filled with the Holy Spirit which is still quite active today in some.
But, not me. Interesting. If I was empowered by the Holy Spirit and yet, never made such a claim, couldn't that be considered humility?
HES wrote:
Humility Strong's G5012 - tapeinophrosyne
1) the having a humble opinion of one's self
2) a deep sense of one's (moral) littleness
3) modesty, humility, lowliness of mind
Col. 2:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Amen and Amen!!
>^o^<
What "rudiments" and "traditions of men" would you accuse me of teaching?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30778 Apr 2, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
They say two things.
1. All the sacrifices ended with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. Since Hebrew Scripture says nothing about ending such practices, they must come up with another way. They do this by practicing mitzvas which are usually about helping the needy.
2. They say they do the best they can.
Either way, they are not taking the written word literally. Neither did Jesus. The Gospels cannot be understood without learning of Jewish religious practices.
The so-called "Jews" that continued the requirements of religious rites after our anointed Savior died are those that rejected him as Messiah for the most part. Even after the temple was destroyed, many continued these ancient requirements, even until this very day. We read, in the texts of the new covenant, of many believers that struggled with this departure from the religious rites. Their inner-struggle was considered "lack of faith" in what was accomplished on the cross and was strongly frowned upon. The issue was, first and foremost, a lack of knowledge of the prophecies that foretold of their fulfillment. Because of this, many believers believed the ancient requirements were still necessary. And this was Paul's major concern. Following are some of the prophecies regarding the fulfillment of these religious rites.

Sabbaths - Hosea 2:11
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Sacrifices - Isaiah 1:11-14
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Death Penalty - Zephaniah 3:15
The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

Circumcision - Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Cleansing Rituals - Psalm 119:9
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

These are only but a few, but Israel should have been prepared. They weren't. And this is the reason that those that fulfilled the vocation of priesthood were replaced. The priesthood were overly concerned with a strict adherence to the literal letter of the law and included traditions. The priesthood, for the most part, were more concerned with that which maintained their wealth. And that's why the Levitical rites were maintained by the priesthood even after they were fulfilled. All involved with the temple and synagogues were wholly dependent on what was offered by the people for a livelihood. The priesthood took for granted the fact that Levi was given no inheritance other than Israel's offerings.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30779 Apr 2, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>The so-called "Jews" that continued the requirements of religious rites after our anointed Savior died are those that rejected him as Messiah for the most part. Even after the temple was destroyed, many continued these ancient requirements, even until this very day. We read, in the texts of the new covenant, of many believers that struggled with this departure from the religious rites. Their inner-struggle was considered "lack of faith" in what was accomplished on the cross and was strongly frowned upon. The issue was, first and foremost, a lack of knowledge of the prophecies that foretold of their fulfillment. Because of this, many believers believed the ancient requirements were still necessary. And this was Paul's major concern. Following are some of the prophecies regarding the fulfillment of these religious rites.
Sabbaths - Hosea 2:11
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
Sacrifices - Isaiah 1:11-14
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Death Penalty - Zephaniah 3:15
The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.
Circumcision - Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Cleansing Rituals - Psalm 119:9
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
These are only but a few, but Israel should have been prepared. They weren't. And this is the reason that those that fulfilled the vocation of priesthood were replaced. The priesthood were overly concerned with a strict adherence to the literal letter of the law and included traditions. The priesthood, for the most part, were more concerned with that which maintained their wealth. And that's why the Levitical rites were maintained by the priesthood even after they were fulfilled. All involved with the temple and synagogues were wholly dependent on what was offered by the people for a livelihood. The priesthood took for granted the fact that Levi was given no inheritance other than Israel's offerings.
Did you realize that many Jewish sects were already abandoning blood sacrifices before Jesus entered the picture?

Explain the word fulfillment and its context. I want to understand more about where you are going with this.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30781 Apr 2, 2013
Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
__________

Problem #1: These didn't do the will of Father.

This proves that Father had a certain expectation of these. This does not prove that Father made them to do either, His will, or otherwise. The performance of His will was expected of them. 1Peter 2:15-16 says, "For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God."

Problem #2: Our anointed Savior NEVER knew them!

This proves that although these people believed they were one with 'Elohiym, they NEVER were! Although they believed they were prophesying in his name, they NEVER were! Although they believed they cast out devils in his name, they NEVER did! Although they believed they did many wonderful works in his name, they NEVER did!

What this does NOT prove is that at one time or another, they WERE known by him. NO! They were NEVER known by him! EVER!

So, what caused such confusion?

2Corinthians 11:14-15 declares, "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." Now, after reading this, take into consideration the law. Exodus 23:8 says, "And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous."

Exodus 23:8, essentially, is a warning against bribery. But, now, take into consideration what we're reading about. What better way to deceive people into believing they're one with 'Elohiym than to reward them with power, making them believe the power of 'Elohiym has been bestowed upon them? But, what was the problem with them that our anointed Savior NEVER knew?

Problem #3: These worked iniquity.

This proves that working iniquity is not doing the will of Father. Consider this-- that John 9:31 associates righteousness with the will of "God". This says, "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." Remember, too, that Satan and his ministers will be judged "according to their works" and that our anointed Savior called them he NEVER knew "ye that work iniquity." Also, remember that John revealed; "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (1John 3:4)." So, essentially, our anointed Savior said to those that were deceived, "I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that transgressed the law."

Does not the ancient dragon have power to give to those he desires? And who better to empower than those that believe they're in accord with the will of "God"? Was the witch of Endor empowered by "God," or Satan?

The answer is emphatically "YES!" Power from "God" is called "the Holy Spirit." Power from Satan is called "familiar spirits!" And Satan empowers many with familiar spirits-- especially them that believe they're performing the will of "God"! By doing so, Satan believes he's defeating "God" and hindering His purpose. But, they're not.

Ask any man that served as "pope" if they were for or against the will of "God," or if they were known by 'Elohiym? What answer do you think they'll give you? Our anointed Savior warned, "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me (John 16:2-3)." What of these?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30783 Apr 2, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Did you realize that many Jewish sects were already abandoning blood sacrifices before Jesus entered the picture?
And Hellenization was blamed. In Greek Scripture, we have "Hellen," "Hellenes," and "Hellenistes." All three were descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But, of all three, the so-called "Hellenistes" were considered nothing more than Gentiles, regardless of their nationality. The "Hellenistes" were accused of not only abandoning the religious rites that accompanied their nationality, but their nationality, too. These were, in not a few cases, despised more than the natural Gentiles were, including the Samaritans.
WasteWater wrote:
Explain the word fulfillment and its context. I want to understand more about where you are going with this.
In a nutshell, the term "fulfillment," according to scripture, means that the performance becomes unnecessary because the result became accomplished and completed.

Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

First and foremost, I hope you recognize that such fulfillment, as I mentioned in my prior post, was foretold and prophesied in the texts of the old covenant. The reason for such fulfillment was because Israel not only misunderstood the purpose of the aforementioned prophecies, but took them for granted. Case in point...

1) Sacrifice bestowed grace upon the sinner so that the sinner can be reconciled unto Father, be forgiven of their sins, and given time to learn righteousness. Grace by sacrifice was what saved Israel from the death penalty. In this, sacrifice, in certain ways, gave the sinner a righteous standing with Father. Rather then learn righteousness, though, Israel depended on sacrifice for appeasement. After time, Israel did nothing more than associate sacrifice with righteousness. In other words, Israel saw sacrifice as righteousness and not the application of the moral law. To alleviate this issue, our anointed Savior was sent to fulfill the law of sacrifice. Now, Israel could no longer erroneously associate sacrifice with righteousness. As sacrifice became fulfilled, Israel was given no other method to be considered righteous but to learn righteousness, as it was originally intended.

1John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30784 Apr 2, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>And Hellenization was blamed. In Greek Scripture, we have "Hellen," "Hellenes," and "Hellenistes." All three were descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But, of all three, the so-called "Hellenistes" were considered nothing more than Gentiles, regardless of their nationality. The "Hellenistes" were accused of not only abandoning the religious rites that accompanied their nationality, but their nationality, too. These were, in not a few cases, despised more than the natural Gentiles were, including the Samaritans.
<quoted text>In a nutshell, the term "fulfillment," according to scripture, means that the performance becomes unnecessary because the result became accomplished and completed.
Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
First and foremost, I hope you recognize that such fulfillment, as I mentioned in my prior post, was foretold and prophesied in the texts of the old covenant. The reason for such fulfillment was because Israel not only misunderstood the purpose of the aforementioned prophecies, but took them for granted. Case in point...
1) Sacrifice bestowed grace upon the sinner so that the sinner can be reconciled unto Father, be forgiven of their sins, and given time to learn righteousness. Grace by sacrifice was what saved Israel from the death penalty. In this, sacrifice, in certain ways, gave the sinner a righteous standing with Father. Rather then learn righteousness, though, Israel depended on sacrifice for appeasement. After time, Israel did nothing more than associate sacrifice with righteousness. In other words, Israel saw sacrifice as righteousness and not the application of the moral law. To alleviate this issue, our anointed Savior was sent to fulfill the law of sacrifice. Now, Israel could no longer erroneously associate sacrifice with righteousness. As sacrifice became fulfilled, Israel was given no other method to be considered righteous but to learn righteousness, as it was originally intended.
1John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Thank you. I'm not buying the idea that the Bible can be used to fully explain the definition or meaning of the word fulfilled as written in the Bible and attributed to Jesus. Such would be circular reasoning saying that the Bible in and of itself explains itself which it cannot. Standing back and reflecting upon the passage where Jesus reads Isaiah, rolls up the scroll and speaks of the Law of the Prophets as being fulfilled simply means "made whole" again. If we read the synoptic Gospels we are told what the actual Law is, the Law which never changes. It is a law of compassion and love with a mystical view of God rather than the laws and statutes written and imposed by man upon other men. Since God of the Hebrew Scripture is said to have made covenants, then Jesus can make no such covenant unless the Holy Trinity is true, which would roll Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father (God) into a single being. I see your definition as using the word fulfill as in fulfilling a prophesy or messianic legacy. The passage does read that way as written and translated. It is intellectually dishonest as Jesus could manipulate circumstances to make it so.

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30785 Apr 3, 2013
Just a notice that Happy Easter sock will retire to the sock drawer until next season, God willing. My next seasonal sock will likely be a Memorial Day sock since my Dad served in the Army in WWII and my brother was killed on that weekend. Until then I suppose I will resume posting as Hell Sucks or something. LOL

>^o^<

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#30786 Apr 3, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Well, I would like to think that becoming defensive was unnecessary with me. I hope you remember that when everyone was trying to turn me against you, I made it clear that I was judging you by your present behavior and not by your past, and also the fact that you had never done anything to me. You know I love you. And based on personal experiences with so-called "Christians" and as sad as it is to say it, I believe the label of the "Christian Forum" is most appropriate. This one, though, is the "Top Stories" forum.
<quoted text>And that's the problem. And that's why I've dedicated so much time researching what I have. And I believe my approach makes all the difference. I've never studied only to reinforce what's already taught and accepted. If I did, then I'd be forced to choose from the myriad of denominations that already exist.
<quoted text>To an extent, yes. And I've good reason, too. Again, I don't study only to reinforce that which is already taught and accepted. Most accept beliefs that are based on dogma that became foundation when our resources were limited and continued into our day. I refuse to believe without investigation.
<quoted text>And that's why I like to quote verses without adding personal interpretations.
<quoted text>I think not. My intended meaning was that it wasn't actually me that stated anything. Again, I only repeated that which was previously written.
<quoted text>Problem.
<quoted text>Problem.
<quoted text>How do you know whether I'm a chosen vessel or not? Didn't our anointed Savior try to explain to the priests and lawyers how they were misunderstanding the very law they were dedicated to learn and teach? Did not the same misunderstand, or even ignore, the prophecies regarding the Messiah?
<quoted text>But, not me. Interesting. If I was empowered by the Holy Spirit and yet, never made such a claim, couldn't that be considered humility?
<quoted text>What "rudiments" and "traditions of men" would you accuse me of teaching?
Well, I am of no denomination or religion either save that of the Bible and the Shepherd.

I don't know who is chosen or saved or filled with His Spirit. I've stated that endlessly. Why the Christian Forum sickens me is the ones that state who is and isn't a "real" Christian. They wouldn't know "real" if it bit them in the tail feathers.

You have stated endlessly that the power of the Holy Spirit was only temporary and given to the Apostles and ended shortly after. That there is no such thing as the act of the Spirit coming to us at a designated time when we are Born Again. I only repeat what you state as I furnished proof the last time you denied it.

Titus 3:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Not by works - In this important passage the apostle presents us with a delightful view of our redemption. Herein we have, The cause of it; not our works or righteousness, but the kindness and love of God our Saviour. The effects; which are, Justification; being justified, pardoned and accepted through the alone merits of Christ, not from any desert in us, but according to his own mercy, by his grace, his free, unmerited goodness. Sanctification, expressed by the laver of regeneration,(that is, baptism, the thing signified, as well as the outward sign,) and the renewal of the Holy Ghost; which purifies the soul, as water cleanses the body, and renews it in the whole image of God. The consummation of all; - that we might become heirs of eternal life, and live now in the joyful hope of it.~ http://wes.biblecommenter.com/titus/3.htm

I'll always love you whether we agree on everything of not, you are my brother!!

;*:*;

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30787 Apr 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Thank you. I'm not buying the idea that the Bible can be used to fully explain the definition or meaning of the word fulfilled as written in the Bible and attributed to Jesus. Such would be circular reasoning saying that the Bible in and of itself explains itself which it cannot.
Actually, it does. I explained this once before. And I pray you understand that even though all that's written, that we call "The Holy Bible," shares one case-binding, the Holy Bible, itself, is a collection of 66 separate literary works written over a period of 1,500 to 1,600 years-- by 36+ authors! As I believe, the fact that we even have a method that many derogatorily call "circular reasoning" is most impressive considering.
WasteWater wrote:
Standing back and reflecting upon the passage where Jesus reads Isaiah, rolls up the scroll and speaks of the Law of the Prophets as being fulfilled simply means "made whole" again.
English: fulfill
Greek transliteration: pleroo
Definition: to make full, to complete, to accomplish
WasteWater wrote:
If we read the synoptic Gospels we are told what the actual Law is, the Law which never changes. It is a law of compassion and love with a mystical view of God rather than the laws and statutes written and imposed by man upon other men.
Actually and as I explained, Israel attributed righteousness to temple offerings such as sacrifices and oblations rather than actual righteous thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech. And if they did observe the moral law, they were more than satisfied observing the literal letter of the law, either neglecting, or totally misunderstanding, the spiritual aspects of it. In other words, they would refrain from committing the literal act of adultery, but they were excessively inflamed with lust toward their neighbor's wives. And it was for this very reason that our anointed Savior focused, more than anything else, on the spiritual aspects of the moral law.
WasteWater wrote:
Since God of the Hebrew Scripture is said to have made covenants, then Jesus can make no such covenant unless the Holy Trinity is true, which would roll Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father (God) into a single being.
Not exactly. As Father is the proprietor of the first, old covenant, Father is the proprietor of the second, new covenant, too. In the case of sacrifice, the blood of animals was required to establish the old covenant. The blood of our anointed Savior was required to establish the new. And this is why our anointed Savior declared, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6)." Clearly, what our anointed Savior accomplished was not to draw us to him, but to Father, as said by him.
WasteWater wrote:
I see your definition as using the word fulfill as in fulfilling a prophesy or messianic legacy. The passage does read that way as written and translated.
Not entirely.

Luke 24:24
And [Yahowshua] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in...

1) the law of Moses, and

2) in the prophets, and

3) in the psalms, concerning me.

[QUOTE who+WasteWater"]It is intellectually dishonest as Jesus could manipulate circumstances to make it so.[/QUOTE]Not exactly. There are, to date, no less than 44 prophecies that were fulfilled by our anointed Savior. And accordingly, there are 18 prophecies that are impossible for him to have orchestrated, regardless.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30788 Apr 3, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Thank you. I'm not buying the idea that the Bible can be used to fully explain the definition or meaning of the word fulfilled as written in the Bible and attributed to Jesus. Such would be circular reasoning saying that the Bible in and of itself explains itself which it cannot.
Actually, it does. I explained this once before. And I pray you understand that even though all that's written, that we call "The Holy Bible," shares one case-binding, the Holy Bible, itself, is a collection of 66 separate literary works written over a period of 1,500 to 1,600 years-- by 36+ authors! As I believe, the fact that we even have a method that many derogatorily call "circular reasoning" is most impressive considering.
WasteWater wrote:
Standing back and reflecting upon the passage where Jesus reads Isaiah, rolls up the scroll and speaks of the Law of the Prophets as being fulfilled simply means "made whole" again.
English: fulfill
Greek transliteration: pleroo
Definition: to make full, to complete, to accomplish
WasteWater wrote:
If we read the synoptic Gospels we are told what the actual Law is, the Law which never changes. It is a law of compassion and love with a mystical view of God rather than the laws and statutes written and imposed by man upon other men.
Actually and as I explained, Israel attributed righteousness to temple offerings such as sacrifices and oblations rather than actual righteous thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech. And if they did observe the moral law, they were more than satisfied observing the literal letter of the law, either neglecting, or totally misunderstanding, the spiritual aspects of it. In other words, they would refrain from committing the literal act of adultery, but they were excessively inflamed with lust toward their neighbor's wives. And it was for this very reason that our anointed Savior focused, more than anything else, on the spiritual aspects of the moral law.
WasteWater wrote:
Since God of the Hebrew Scripture is said to have made covenants, then Jesus can make no such covenant unless the Holy Trinity is true, which would roll Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father (God) into a single being.
Not exactly. As Father is the proprietor of the first, old covenant, Father is the proprietor of the second, new covenant, too. In the case of sacrifice, the blood of animals was required to establish the old covenant. The blood of our anointed Savior was required to establish the new. And this is why our anointed Savior declared, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6)." Clearly, what our anointed Savior accomplished was not to draw us to him, but to Father, as said by him.
WasteWater wrote:
I see your definition as using the word fulfill as in fulfilling a prophesy or messianic legacy. The passage does read that way as written and translated.
Not entirely.

Luke 24:24
And [Yahowshua] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in...

1) the law of Moses, and

2) in the prophets, and

3) in the psalms, concerning me.
WasteWater wrote:
It is intellectually dishonest as Jesus could manipulate circumstances to make it so.
Not exactly. There are, to date, no less than 44 prophecies that were fulfilled by our anointed Savior. And accordingly, there are 18 prophecies that are impossible for him to have orchestrated, regardless.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30789 Apr 3, 2013
Hell Sucks wrote:
Well, I am of no denomination or religion either save that of the Bible and the Shepherd.
I know of many that claim to believe in "God". They say they believe in Jesus Christ. But, they still observe, if not all the commandments, all the traditions held dear by Christendom, like Christmas, Good Friday, Easter, so forth and so on. I can't help but think that they deny affiliation with any denomination or religion only because they don't assemble with any of them. Their observances prove otherwise, though.
Hell Sucks wrote:
I don't know who is chosen or saved or filled with His Spirit. I've stated that endlessly.
Perhaps, then, you shouldn't be so quick to reject assertions that aren't, at least, similar to what you've been taught.
Hell Sucks wrote:
Why the Christian Forum sickens me is the ones that state who is and isn't a "real" Christian. They wouldn't know "real" if it bit them in the tail feathers.
Well, I believe that our posts reflect our person. There are some that I can say, without regret or doubt, that are as "Christian" as Pontius Pilate was.
Hell Sucks wrote:
You have stated endlessly that the power of the Holy Spirit was only temporary and given to the Apostles and ended shortly after.
I said that I believe that that particular function of the Holy Spirit came to end sometime during the first century. "..prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away," wrote Paul.
Hell Sucks wrote:
That there is no such thing as the act of the Spirit coming to us at a designated time when we are Born Again.
Not exactly. I never said there's no such thing. I've just not witnessed such a thing. With an estimated 2.6-billion believers in this world, it's estimated that a little more than 2-million of them are affiliated with the "Born-Again" denomination. This particular denomination believes in being empowered by the Holy Spirit. On top of that, there's an estimated 130-million affiliated with the "Pentecostal" denomination. This is another denomination that believes in being empowered by the Holy Spirit. That's 132-million believers that believe in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. And yet, according to recent statistics, almost 1-million people, globally, suffer from hunger and malnutrition. So much for bread and fish, huh?
Hell Sucks wrote:
I only repeat what you state as I furnished proof the last time you denied it.
~sigh~
Hell Sucks wrote:
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Not by works - In this important passage the apostle presents us with a delightful view of our redemption. Herein we have, The cause of it; not our works or righteousness, but the kindness and love of God our Saviour. The effects; which are, Justification; being justified, pardoned and accepted through the alone merits of Christ, not from any desert in us, but according to his own mercy, by his grace, his free, unmerited goodness. Sanctification, expressed by the laver of regeneration,(that is, baptism, the thing signified, as well as the outward sign,) and the renewal of the Holy Ghost; which purifies the soul, as water cleanses the body, and renews it in the whole image of God. The consummation of all; - that we might become heirs of eternal life, and live now in the joyful hope of it.~ http://wes.biblecommenter.com/titus/3.htm
I'll always love you whether we agree on everything of not, you are my brother!!
;*:*;
If we were righteous beforehand, then we would have never have needed a savior. That's simple. Saved from what, though? We still die, don't we? Who, then, is saved when all's said and done?

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

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