What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#30709 Mar 31, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you.
<quoted text>Then, what, if you don't mind my asking, are you here for?
<quoted text>I believe he made a similar comment on the very first page, saying that he attending a seminary, assisted the so-called "pastor" in teaching the congregation, and if memory serves me correctly, leading the congregation as "pastor" for a time. Of course, I could be mistaken, though, or misunderstanding.
I think this will lead to the whole exchange:

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

You probably need to thumb back from there for the denial and others calling the dishonesty.

As to the Bible stuff, I just don't have an interest at the moment.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#30710 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't recall you posting on this thread before. I don't remember all the detailed accusations as Gary was once Catholic, but I did put one false accusation to rest concerning him. The same people you speak of claimed Gary and Dave were the same person, even called him Dary. Dave and Gary are definitely 2 individuals and brothers as was proven on an obituary which I shared with Bro Love as evidence.
>^o^<
Please follow the link in my last post.

Gary is a liar and a former Camping cultist.

What he claims now is no more true than what he claimed in the past.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30711 Mar 31, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
I think this will lead to the whole exchange:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
You probably need to thumb back from there for the denial and others calling the dishonesty.
I read the post that first appeared and the link provided by Beavis Christ (sp?), too. Sadly, people tend to forget that unless their post blatantly transgresses Topix's terms-of-service, their post will remain for all to see long after they post it. Agreeably, some might mistakenly misrepresent themselves, but these rarely ever repeat the same mistake unless one of two (?) things occur. One, they're incapable of explaining themselves appropriately and accordingly. Or two, They forgot what it was that they had initially posted.
Chess Jurist wrote:
As to the Bible stuff, I just don't have an interest at the moment.
Fair enough.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30712 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
I didn't recall you posting on this thread before. I don't remember all the detailed accusations as Gary was once Catholic, but I did put one false accusation to rest concerning him. The same people you speak of claimed Gary and Dave were the same person, even called him Dary. Dave and Gary are definitely 2 individuals and brothers as was proven on an obituary which I shared with Bro Love as evidence.
>^o^<
Chess Jurist wrote:
Please follow the link in my last post.
Gary is a liar and a former Camping cultist.
What he claims now is no more true than what he claimed in the past.
For the record and if memory serves me correctly, I've never called either of them "Dary." But, in case you're wondering, the initial accusation began for a couple of reasons that I can remember. For starters, there were times that it seemed that both posters, Gary and Dave, had identical styles of composition. Then, it seemed as if their posts were composed strategically; one right after another and made to reinforce the first. It just seemed too coincidental and convenient. And that's what provoked the initial accusation.

What's never been admitted or proven wrong was whether or not either of them did, indeed, post under the other's identity. And if inquiry was made, the person that asked was accused of having some sort of "slap-tic, knee-jerk reaction" and trying to veer the discussion away from the so-called "facts." And that was on top of their being accused of being upset, angry, and what-have-you. But, seeing that you were a contributor to this thread even before I was, I'm sure you're more than aware of the madness that took place in this thread.

Until next time...

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30713 Mar 31, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you for explaining my position?
I emphatically disagree with your accusation that I proclaim my own "philosophy," as you so carelessly put it. True, I'm not affiliated nor associated with any denomination of Christendom, but all that I believe derives from the bible. I do believe that Father and Yahowshua are one, as it's written. But, I know better than to exceed the definition of "one" like so many do. As it should be understood, Father and Yahowshua are one in the same manner that a man and his wife are one. What they are not, though, is one and the same person. I've proven that before and I can prove it again, easily and with scripture.
<quoted text>I guess the only question now is: Who are you referring to? Gary? Me? Or, both of us?
Sorry, couldn't remember what you call your beliefs that are not Christian as you claim. You also said it is no particular belief system that others follow. Those are not my conclusions but your very statements multiple times, so I assume what you say is the what you are. That you were NOT a Christian, and that the Father and Son were not One. Also, did you not state that Christ was created by the Father, and not uncreated as is the Almighty God. Christ was NOT created anymore than the Father. As stated in John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1:1-3 The Beginning of Christ's Ministry

SUMMARY OF JOHN 1:

The Word Made Flesh. The Witness of John. John's Disciples Pointed to Christ. The Lord Calls His First Disciples. An Israelite Indeed.

In the beginning was the Word, etc. The first fourteen verses are introductory. In order to set at rest all controversy the Divine nature of Jesus, John glances, in the first three verses, back to the beginning, recorded in Genesis, and affirms:(1) That he who was afterwards manifest as the Christ existed before creation began; (2) that he was present with God; (3) that he was divine; (4) that he was the Word; (5) that by or through him were all things made that were made (Joh 1:3). The first chapter of Genesis helps us to understand its meaning. God said, Let there be light (Ge 1:3), Let there be a firmament (Ge 1:6), Let the earth bring forth (Ge 1:11), etc. and it was done. God exhibits his creative power through the Word, and manifests his will through the Word. There are mysteries belonging to the divine nature and to the relation between the Son and the Father that we have to wait for eternity to solve. They are too deep for human solution, but this is clear: that God creates and speaks to man through the Word. As we clothe our thoughts in words, so God reveals his will by the Word, and when the Word is clothed in flesh, as the Teacher of men, we recognize it as Jesus Christ.~ http://pnt.biblecommenter.com/john/1.htm

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30714 Mar 31, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please follow the link in my last post.
Gary is a liar and a former Camping cultist.
What he claims now is no more true than what he claimed in the past.
Anyone that can find a post like that from '10 on a fast~paced thread and site such as Topix makes me question their sanity. I know one in particular that keeps those things as a major part of his reality and life and it is quite an obsessed and unnatural addiction, to say the least. I save nothing of that sort. That is some seriously mentally unstable mindset. Sends shivers down my spine. Gary does no such thing.

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30715 Mar 31, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>For the record and if memory serves me correctly, I've never called either of them "Dary." But, in case you're wondering, the initial accusation began for a couple of reasons that I can remember. For starters, there were times that it seemed that both posters, Gary and Dave, had identical styles of composition. Then, it seemed as if their posts were composed strategically; one right after another and made to reinforce the first. It just seemed too coincidental and convenient. And that's what provoked the initial accusation.
What's never been admitted or proven wrong was whether or not either of them did, indeed, post under the other's identity. And if inquiry was made, the person that asked was accused of having some sort of "slap-tic, knee-jerk reaction" and trying to veer the discussion away from the so-called "facts." And that was on top of their being accused of being upset, angry, and what-have-you. But, seeing that you were a contributor to this thread even before I was, I'm sure you're more than aware of the madness that took place in this thread.
Until next time...
I wasn't referring to you Bro Love. I didn't say you called Gary that, but all the other anti~Campers and hate~mongers did. Gary and Dave's writing styles were quite different. They both emailed me and I could tell immediately who was who. The defective detectives on Topix are staggering.

Dave is much more laid back and more mellow than Gary was, and seldom got as emotional as Gary. I saw no resemblance, and their posts had different isp's. I guess you're right, I can't prove that because Gary has a brother Dave that Dave was doing the posting. However, had you read my frequent emails back in the days you would have not questioned they were two different folks. Another thing, they gave me their phone numbers, and they were not the same dudes and different locations. So how could I talk to Dave about Topix, if it was not him posting?? Oh well, I can't prove all the false accusations and lies about myself, so I'm sure I have no way to substantiate the words of another.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#30716 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone that can find a post like that from '10 on a fast~paced thread and site such as Topix makes me question their sanity. I know one in particular that keeps those things as a major part of his reality and life and it is quite an obsessed and unnatural addiction, to say the least. I save nothing of that sort. That is some seriously mentally unstable mindset. Sends shivers down my spine. Gary does no such thing.
No one saved anything.

Gary's a proven liar.

And Google's advance search function required about 20 seconds of my time to provide the evidence.

Were I you, I'd be more concerned about believing anything Gary says.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30717 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Sorry, couldn't remember what you call your beliefs that are not Christian as you claim.
My religion is Mashiyachiym. And Mashiyachiym is a revival of the original religion that became lost when what we call "Christianity" adopted pagan doctrines and rituals.
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
You also said it is no particular belief system that others follow.
I said that the name "Mashiyachiym" is not a name that others call themselves. But, I have met others whose beliefs are strikingly similar to mine. What the common so-called "Christian" believes, though, are quite different.
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Those are not my conclusions but your very statements multiple times, so I assume what you say is the what you are. That you were NOT a Christian, and that the Father and Son were not One.
I've only stated the facts, that the definition of the term "one" in John 10:30 is identical that the same term used at John 17:20-22. This says, "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE." It's odd that none applies the same definition they adhere to our anointed Savior's declaration regarding him and Father to the above mentioned, too. I wonder why that is?
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Also, did you not state that Christ was created by the Father, and not uncreated as is the Almighty God. Christ was NOT created anymore than the Father. As stated in John 1.
And you, like so many others, will continue to ignore the past-tensed term "was," used in John 1:1. This says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." The term "was" is a clear indication that the subject's (the Word) vocation (God) had a point of expiration. And I stated no such thing; that our anointed Savior was created by Father. Rather, Revelation 3:14 states that our anointed Savior is "the beginning of the creation of God," and I only repeat what's written! Then, on top of that, Paul wrote to the Colossians that our anointed Savior is "the firstborn of every creature." As Reuben was the beginning of the sons of Jacob, our anointed Savior is the beginning of the creation of Father.

John 14:28
...my Father is greater than I.

1Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Corinthians 15:27-28
For [Father] hath put all things under [the Son's] feet. But when [Father] saith, all things are put under [the Son], it is manifest that [Father] is excepted, which did put all things under [the Son].
And when all things shall be subdued unto [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto [Father] that put all things under [the Son], that God may be all in all.

1Corinthians 8:5-6
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,(as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30720 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
I wasn't referring to you Bro Love. I didn't say you called Gary that, but all the other anti~Campers and hate~mongers did.
Cool. But, is it fair that you call all that opposed Harold Camping's disciples "hate-mongers"? Are we to conclude that all that opposed Harold Camping's disciples did so only out of hatred?
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Gary and Dave's writing styles were quite different. They both emailed me and I could tell immediately who was who.
And that's why I said that at times, it seemed that they were one and the same. I mean, even I noticed that. But, I'm sure there's a few of us that knows that Dave and Gary are two different people. And brothers.
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
The defective detectives on Topix are staggering.
Wow. Your blatant, disrespectful comments are beginning to disappoint me. I've known you to be above that. Stand in the holy place, my friend.
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Dave is much more laid back and more mellow than Gary was, and seldom got as emotional as Gary. I saw no resemblance, and their posts had different isp's. I guess you're right, I can't prove that because Gary has a brother Dave that Dave was doing the posting. However, had you read my frequent emails back in the days you would have not questioned they were two different folks. Another thing, they gave me their phone numbers, and they were not the same dudes and different locations. So how could I talk to Dave about Topix, if it was not him posting?? Oh well, I can't prove all the false accusations and lies about myself, so I'm sure I have no way to substantiate the words of another.
Again, I don't doubt that Dave and Gary are two different people. But, like you said, it can't be proven that the one never posted under the moniker of the other. Honestly, I don't care, either way. In the end, though, you're previously debunking the belief that Gary and Dave are one and the same does absolutely nothing to void Chess Jurist's recent inquiry and evidence against Gary.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#30721 Mar 31, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
whorever who gary is according to your size cockroach brain
Proven Liar ,idiot, and mentaly retarded you are according to cyber survey and your out of mind insutls of other strange posters mutts not known to you
YOU NEED URGENTLY DOCTROR SHRINK,
AND LEARN RESPECT OF OTHERS BELIEFS PROTECTED BY CONSTITUTION OF THIS COUNTRY
Beacue you are criminal against federal law
What a hoot.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30722 Mar 31, 2013
Hi Lee:

I was hoping you would answer my question concerning John 1:13 who's will is it concernig salvation is it God's will or man's will?

"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD."

NOW ANYONE CAN GO BACK AND SEE I HAVE ASKED YOU THE SAME QUESTIONS MANY TIMES WITH JUST SILENCE YET I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

Talking about going on the defensive Lee? Just amazing. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>And I can easily tell when a person goes on the defensive, to protect their ego. This must be factual considering that you totally missed the point of my post. Disregard my assertions and focus on my initial question, Gary.
With all due respect-- have you even considered the mere possibility that you're in error considering the fact that you're teaching the same doctrines that you were teaching when you were a false-prophet?
My further assertions were only to explain to you why I feel you should consider the mere possibility that you're in error, Gary. Not to discredit you, at all.

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30723 Mar 31, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>

And I stated no such thing; that our anointed Savior was created by Father.
Yes, you stated the Son was created by Father. And you call Gary a liar for these sorts of things. I remember it quite well as it blew me away more than any or your beliefs.

You wrote: Our anointed Savior is called the "first and the last." Now, I've been contending for quote some time that this has a dual meaning. The first, as I believe, means that our anointed Savior is the first created by Father Yahoweh, and the last created by Father Yahoweh. All else created was created by our anointed Savior. The second meaning, then and as I believe, means that our anointed Savior is the first to be raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh, and the last to be raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh. I believe that our anointed Savior will remain the last raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh, as all else worthy will be raised to everlasting life by our anointed Savior. And this brings us to the above, quoted verse.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...

AND

I seeJesus wrote:
Some ex- Mormons, one who is the great great grand daughter of Brigham Young, was recently interviewed by Christian host John Ankerberg, show how they were taught even Father God was a created God.....just as you believe Jesus is a created God (that is how you are like the Mormons and why you are just as pagan as they are)

You wrote: The difference is that I don't believe Yahoweh was created. Just Yahowshua.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...

I find this huge that you believe Christ was "created" by Father God. His only creation was that as the Son of man having been born of woman and the Holy Spirit. Of course, He had existed all along, just not in the flesh.

After this revelation, perhaps you should reconsider some of your accusations against Gary. Also, I didn't come here to argue with you. You're my brother whom I love. But if I had no intention of speaking my mind I would have no need to be on a debate forum.

>^o^<
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30724 Mar 31, 2013
Dear all:

I fully understand that many may disagree with the gospel I share I understand this because I was in the same gospel that most are in now. Oh sure, many have different beliefs but the main core of the salvation is the same and that is a gospel that is built on [self] that is, you must repent, you must ask Jesus to save you now, you must ask Him to come on in, you must first do this work or that work in order to prove your in.

The foundation for many is really the same when you strip the core salvation program of man down.

The salvation I have been sharing is 100$ built on the Lord Jesus Christ I believe there is no other foundation that one can lay that is, the Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Cor. 3:11

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ"

Many believe in order to be saved, he must accept Jesus, he must be baptized, he must join the church, he must first do good works he must repent, and on and on it goes no body really knows how much man can adds to the list of a do it your self gospel

The gospel I believe is all the work of God and all the salvation goes to God, thus He alone gets all the glory. I believe when God saves one by His word and His Spirit, John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:23, Eph. 2:8-9, Eph. 1:4-6, Rom. 9:11-24. he is saved only by the power of God not by the power of the will of man.

When one is truly born again God will work out in him what He has already worked in him thus he becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus he is now born from above and has a brand new resurrected Spirit in him that has a want to that is, to serve the Lord with his whole mind, heart, soul, and strength. The reason why he will want to do God's will is because the Holy Spirit is slowly leading him into truth. For the true believer God gives him a broken and a contrite heart that will bow down to the word of God and will allow for much corrrection as, 2 Tim. 3:16 declares one that is not born again cannot do this because his pride is still intacked, he is sill dripping with his pride he will not allow the word to correct him concerning his own man made gospel that exalts [self] You see the [free will] gospel does just that it takes the Lord off the throne and it puts self on the throne look what I have done I have accepted Jesus, I was baptized, I was slain in the spirit, I was working good works, I, I, ME, ME.

You see, this gospel lifts self up and brings God down and no matter how much truth one may share with one he will never see truth unless God gives him the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, if not he will continue to be taken captive by Satan at his will. Now if you tell one that is snared by Satan in a do it your self gospel he just will not see this most basic truth's concerning salvation. In other words, he never got off the ground no matter what he may teach some of it could be true but if he is void of the true foundation he is like a man sad to say that has built his house on sand.

All the true believer can do in love is share the word in love and in truth and sometime the truth of the word of God has a real sting to ones pride I understand this I was snared into this do it your self gospel at one time also. However, when I did become saved by the mercy of God alone I could see I did not have the foundation so God striped me of my pride and He humbled me to the point I had to tell others I was not saved, yet they would try their hardest to convince me I was why? I was acting as a mirror if he is not saved maybe I am not also? Oh no, I cannot allow for that! You see, only God can make us look into the mirror of God's word this is why the true believer can examine him self to make sure his calling and election is sure. An unbeliever cannot do this, 2 Peter 1:10. God first must put a new Spirit in him so he will allow for correction and will repent of his error. All this is the work of God. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30726 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
He's wiser than you think. Too much for his own good. He is a mathematical genius. Thing is, that is not necessary to be of the flock of the Shepherd and to adhere to His Word and obtain the Faith that salvation is founded on. Some of the greatest theologians and Bible students fall and fail because they are inclined to think too much with their heads and not enough with their hearts.
1 Cor. 1:
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Happy Easter to you and yours!!
>^o^<
Indeed! All the mathematics in the world is useless in the prediction of God's time.

Happy Easter blessing to you also.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30727 Mar 31, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Yes, you stated the Son was created by Father. And you call Gary a liar for these sorts of things.
And this is why I wonder if some actually understand the bible. Of my whole post, you isolated what I said. You have me saying, with nothing else, "And I stated no such thing; that our anointed Savior was created by Father." You failed to include my whole statement, which is the meat of my point. I continued by saying, "Rather, Revelation 3:14 states that our anointed Savior is 'the beginning of the creation of God', and I ONLY REPEAT WHAT'S WRITTEN! Then, on top of that, Paul wrote to the Colossians that our anointed Savior is 'the firstborn of every creature.' As Reuben was the beginning of the sons of Jacob, our anointed Savior is the beginning of the creation of Father." I'll, now, also include that as Reuben is the firstborn of Jacob, so is Yahowshua the firstborn of every creature.

It's that simple.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30728 Mar 31, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
I was hoping you would answer my question concerning John 1:13 who's will is it concernig salvation is it God's will or man's will?
"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD."
NOW ANYONE CAN GO BACK AND SEE I HAVE ASKED YOU THE SAME QUESTIONS MANY TIMES WITH JUST SILENCE YET I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.
Talking about going on the defensive Lee? Just amazing. Gary
You're proving me right at every turn, Gary.

Why don't you try taking a gander at post #30707, on page 1476. You'll find your answer there.

Sheesh.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30729 Apr 1, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
Yes, you stated the Son was created by Father. And you call Gary a liar for these sorts of things. I remember it quite well as it blew me away more than any or your beliefs.
You wrote: Our anointed Savior is called the "first and the last." Now, I've been contending for quote some time that this has a dual meaning. The first, as I believe, means that our anointed Savior is the first created by Father Yahoweh, and the last created by Father Yahoweh. All else created was created by our anointed Savior. The second meaning, then and as I believe, means that our anointed Savior is the first to be raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh, and the last to be raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh. I believe that our anointed Savior will remain the last raised to everlasting life by Father Yahoweh, as all else worthy will be raised to everlasting life by our anointed Savior. And this brings us to the above, quoted verse.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...
AND
I seeJesus wrote:
Some ex- Mormons, one who is the great great grand daughter of Brigham Young, was recently interviewed by Christian host John Ankerberg, show how they were taught even Father God was a created God.....just as you believe Jesus is a created God (that is how you are like the Mormons and why you are just as pagan as they are)
You wrote: The difference is that I don't believe Yahoweh was created. Just Yahowshua.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...
I find this huge that you believe Christ was "created" by Father God. His only creation was that as the Son of man having been born of woman and the Holy Spirit. Of course, He had existed all along, just not in the flesh.
After this revelation, perhaps you should reconsider some of your accusations against Gary. Also, I didn't come here to argue with you. You're my brother whom I love. But if I had no intention of speaking my mind I would have no need to be on a debate forum.
>^o^<
Of course it blew you away! What's written is far from what's being taught by Christendom, so obviously, it's against the grain of what you're accustomed to. The difference is this, though.

I have verses that more than just suggest the our anointed Savior is a created being, that being Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15. In the link you provided, we can read how I explain why I believe it's said that he's "the first and the last," which coincide perfectly with my assertions. And neither Revelation 3:14, nor Colossians 1:15, need to be reasoned deductively to reach the conclusion I share.

You, on the other hand, have no verses that prove your assertions and beliefs accurate. All you have for an argument, as of now, is your assertion that he was "created" in the womb of Mary while already existing prior, and that this is what's meant at Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15. However, scriptures say he was "made of a woman," which is equivalent to saying he was "born of a woman," not "created in a woman."

It amazes me how powerful believers believe Father is, but yet, you're still so quick to limit His power when it comes to His Son. Apparently, unless His Son has always existed, then he can't be the Son of "God," nor our appointed Savior, nor worthy of belief. You'll have to excuse me for not limiting the power of our 'Elohiym by dictating to them what they must have accomplished in order for me to believe them. Created or not, I still believe he's the only-begotten Son of the most High. And created or not, I still believe he's my anointed Savior. I don't need him to have no point of creation in order to believe in him. Nor is it necessary I believe that he had to have no point of creation in order for him to create all else. Either way, I believe in him. Actually, my beliefs make them more powerful!

And by the way... I never called Gary a liar. Get it together, homegirl.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30730 Apr 1, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
stop post own halucinations
rather read C and Gary posts,and start worship true God by His Holy Tabernacle,GODS WORD BIBLE
Your delusions, and maniacial depression start slowly damage your diagestion system
and your long posts doesn't have any value not full spiritual,nor monetary value of 1 american penny
What? You want some of this?

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Actually, what I said was (with minor alterations to appease my opposition)...

My religion is Mashiyachiym. And Mashiyachiym is a revival of the original religion that became lost when what we call "Christianity" adopted pagan doctrines and rituals... like Ishtar. I mean Astarte. I mean Astoreth. I mean, Easter. Or, whatever false "holy" day that so-called "Christians" have to observe even though it's obvious even to a child that "Good Friday" to "Easter Sunday" is only two days and not three! But, that's just me, though.

Friday - 3:00 pm - Supposedly, our anointed Savior dies.
Saturday - 3:00 pm - One day accomplished.
Sunday - 3:00 pm - Three... I mean, TWO days accomplished!

I said that the name "Mashiyachiym" is not a name that others call themselves. But, I have met others whose beliefs are strikingly similar to mine. What the common so-called "Christian" believes, though, are quite different, I admit and am proud to say.

I've only stated the facts, that the definition of the term "one" in John 10:30 is identical to the same term used at John 17:20-22. This says, "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE." It's odd that none applies the same definition they adhere to our anointed Savior's declaration regarding him and Father to the above mentioned, too. I wonder why that is? Don't you? Of course, not.

And you, like so many others, will continue to ignore the past-tensed term "was," used in John 1:1. This says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." The term "was" is a clear indication that the subject's (the Word) vocation (God) had a point of expiration. And our anointed Savior was created by Father. Revelation 3:14 states that our anointed Savior is "the beginning of the creation of God," and I only repeat what's written! Then, on top of that, Paul wrote to the Colossians that our anointed Savior is "the firstborn of every creature." As Reuben was the beginning of the sons of Jacob, our anointed Savior is the beginning of the creation of Father.

John 14:28
...my Father is greater than I.

1Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Corinthians 15:27-28
For [Father] hath put all things under [the Son's] feet. But when [Father] saith, all things are put under [the Son], it is manifest that [Father] is excepted, which did put all things under [the Son].
And when all things shall be subdued unto [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto [Father] that put all things under [the Son], that God may be all in all.

1Corinthians 8:5-6
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,(as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

DON'T ARGUE AGAINST ME, NURSE SHRINK! IF YOU WANT TO OPPOSE ANYTHING, OPPOSE THE VERSES I QUOTED. What I assert makes little difference in the whole scheme of things. But, you, like so many others, will refuse to reveal how, or even why, we reconcile what's written just to uphold what it is we want, or rather, HAVE to believe.

Get it together, nurse Shrink.

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#30731 Apr 1, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>And this is why I wonder if some actually understand the bible. Of my whole post, you isolated what I said. You have me saying, with nothing else, "And I stated no such thing; that our anointed Savior was created by Father." You failed to include my whole statement, which is the meat of my point. I continued by saying, "Rather, Revelation 3:14 states that our anointed Savior is 'the beginning of the creation of God', and I ONLY REPEAT WHAT'S WRITTEN! Then, on top of that, Paul wrote to the Colossians that our anointed Savior is 'the firstborn of every creature.' As Reuben was the beginning of the sons of Jacob, our anointed Savior is the beginning of the creation of Father." I'll, now, also include that as Reuben is the firstborn of Jacob, so is Yahowshua the firstborn of every creature.
It's that simple.
I only isolated it to show you that you DID say what I stated and you denied saying. That is why.

Of course it would be me that doesn't understand the Bible and not you. It's always been that way, I See Jesus will attest to that. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. I'm older than you and I've taught and studied longer than you, which is really not required to be BORN AGAIN. I also believe without the Holy Spirit ACTIVELY filling us we cannot understand God's Word as He intends. And since you believe those sorts of things ended with the Apostles in Acts, I would not be the one void here.

The Word is not, therefore, found in the sense of authorship, as denoting that one is the beginning of anything in the sense that he caused it to have an existence. As to the second of the significations suggested, that it means that he was the first created being, it may be observed:

(a) that this is not a necessary signification of the phrase, since no one can show that this is the only proper meaning which could be given to the words, and therefore the phrase cannot be adduced to prove that he is himself a created being. If it were demonstrated from other sources that Christ was, in fact, a created being, and the first that God had made, it cannot be denied that this language would appropriately express that fact. But it cannot be made out from the mere use of the language here; and as the language is susceptible of other interpretations, it cannot be employed to prove that Christ is a created being.

(b) Such an interpretation would be at variance with all those passages which speak of him as uncreated and eternal; which ascribe divine attributes to him; which speak of him as himself the Creator of all things. Compare John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 1:6,Hebrews 1:8, Hebrews 1:10-12. The third signification, therefore, remains, that he is "the beginning of the creation of God," in the sense that he is the head or prince of the creation; that is, that he presides over it so far as the purposes of redemption are to be accomplished, and so far as is necessary for those purposes. This is:

(1) in accordance with the meaning of the word, Luke 12:11; Luke 20:20, et al. ut supra; and,

(2) in accordance with the uniform statements respecting the Redeemer, that "all power is given unto him in heaven and in earth" Matthew 28:18; that God has "given him power over all flesh" John 17:2; that all things are "put under his feet" the. John 2:8; 1 Corinthians 15:27); that he is exalted over all things, Ephesians 1:20-22. Having this rank, it was proper that he should speak with authority to the church at Laodicea.~ http://barnes.biblecommenter.com/revelation/3...

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