What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30539 Mar 24, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
I urinate on your sentences and your verdicts you dumb asshole
not even knowing who is who,
and who contribute to any religion who not?
f....you,your earthly fable teachings, your judgements, your adcices, your verdicts making responsible others
keep proper moral watching and beliefs only your wife,kids and your friends
you are nothing for me, nor existing stinking fumes from my own toliet
Not nice.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30541 Mar 24, 2013
Dear all:

I am refecting on many things these days and looking back doing a check up on my self in many different ways.

1- I see just how short our life is.

2- We sometime act like we are going to live down here forever.

3- We sometime take little thought in what we say and how powerful words are they can build up or destroy I am sure everyone can give much imput on this matter if they are honest with ourselves

4- All of us are coming closer to the end of our life or to the return of the Lord whatever comes first.

5- We all have seen drastic changes in this world we live in and we can see it is not getting any better.

6- If we are truly honest with our self we can also see the utter confusion there is out there even among the same camp that calls themselves [Christians]

7- When I go to these so called [christian threads] I am appaled to say the least to see every where including here at times the slander, hate, mocking, scoffing, the Bible tells us that this should not even be named among any believers God forbid!

8 Just scroll down at the [top stories] and when you go to them I wonder at times what planet or what hell did I come unto?

9- The word tells us that this world will act out crazy as in the days of Noah and the days of Lot, when we look just how wicked those days was we can see it is like reading a news paper is it not?

10- WHO IS OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER SOME OF THE OLD TV SERIES CAN YOU NAME A FEW OLD ONES? YOU SEE MANY TIMES THEY HAD A MORAL ENDING TO THEM THE GOOD GUY WINS.

Remember:

[gun smoke]

[Bonazza]

[leave it to beaver]

[wild wild west]

[have gun will travel]

[Zoro]

I am showing my age here,

[Top hat]

[I love Lucy]

[Dick Van Dyke]

[Honeymooners]

Almost all these programs had some moral ending to them or they were just clean skits.

Now look at what is taking place today? These poor kids don't stand a chance sad to say.

Maybe my job is coming to a close, my work I think is just about finished I fought the good fight, keep pressing towards the mark of the High calling in Christ Jesus. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30543 Mar 24, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
I understand The Gospel of John was written by two people.
The last part is not included in the Chaism. Also, I believe the woman caught is adultery was placed into John's gospel by a scribe looking to bury it rather than delete it as ordered. Apparently he was told to delete it so he wrote it into a part where it could be hidden because he didn't wish to destroy sacred text.
Here is where I think it fits properly.
Luke 21:37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, 38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.
8:(1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.)
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus,“Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them,“Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her,“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared.“Go now and leave your life of sin.”
That is an excellent summation, WasteWater, and difficult to deny if anyone chose to. If it's one thing that's factual is that all the gospel records are the history of the same 3.5 year period. Therefore, they intersect. And it's quite likely that the account could have been removed from Luke's account and inserted into John's, to preserve it. I've never heard of such exchanges in any of the gospel records, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth examining.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30544 Mar 24, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
almost all man made worldwide christianity is pagan doctrines misleading potential believer in completly Different GOD OF BIBLE
same you doesn't know who is THIS CREATOR AUTHOR OF BIBLE G-D YHVH HaSheme great grandfather of all Creation from everlasting past and eternal future
Christianity is a derivative of Pagan beliefs.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30545 Mar 24, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>That is an excellent summation, WasteWater, and difficult to deny if anyone chose to. If it's one thing that's factual is that all the gospel records are the history of the same 3.5 year period. Therefore, they intersect. And it's quite likely that the account could have been removed from Luke's account and inserted into John's, to preserve it. I've never heard of such exchanges in any of the gospel records, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth examining.
Thank you, few will acknowledge that. A couple years back, I visited the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the St. Paul Science Museum. Also on display was the St. John's Monastery illustrated and hand scribed Bible which they were working on at the time. I learned a great deal about how scribes worked.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30546 Mar 24, 2013
Gary wrote:
2Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

2Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
What you quoted, above, are further examples of the blessed free-will "God's" bestowed upon us.

1a) Peter instructed the elect to "give diligence." What Peter did not instruct the elect to do was wait on Father to make them diligent.

1b) And this diligence is so that the elect can make their calling and election sure. What Peter didn't tell the elect was that their calling and election was already sure.

1c) Peter explained that such effort to become diligent will keep the elect from falling. What Peter didn't explain was that no effort was necessary on the elect's part because it was all in "God's" hands.

2a) Paul instructed the disciples to examine themselves. Such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were out of their control.

2b) Paul instructed the disciples to prove themselves. Again, such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were entirely controlled by "God".

Thank you for your time and consideration, Gary.
Reality Check

San Jose, CA

#30547 Mar 24, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>That is an excellent summation, WasteWater, and difficult to deny if anyone chose to. If it's one thing that's factual is that all the gospel records are the history of the same 3.5 year period. Therefore, they intersect. And it's quite likely that the account could have been removed from Luke's account and inserted into John's, to preserve it. I've never heard of such exchanges in any of the gospel records, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth examining.
hen it could simply be a Vantage Point. It also is a good movie to watch and it might enlighten some as to vantage points and perspectives.

I can be a dad, a son, a brother, a friend, a husband, a cousin, a boss, a co-worker, a student, a cop, a professor. I am the same person, but to each I present a different perspective and they have a different vantage point.
Reality Check

San Jose, CA

#30548 Mar 24, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity is a derivative of Pagan beliefs.
Homosexuality is a derivative of pedophilia and bestiality. Now, what I say is true. Yours, not so much. If you say that Catholicism is a derivative of pagan beliefs, then maybe, but in reality it is a pagan belief.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30549 Mar 24, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
I urinate on your sentences and your verdicts you dumb asshole
not even knowing who is who,
and who contribute to any religion who not?
f....you,your earthly fable teachings, your judgements, your adcices, your verdicts making responsible others
keep proper moral watching and beliefs only your wife,kids and your friends
you are nothing for me, nor existing stinking fumes from my own toliet
Thank you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30550 Mar 24, 2013
_Jusayin_ wrote:
<quoted text>
New Age, I'm right there with you with what I've read from you but I have one question I want you to answer honestly please. How many "believers" have you actually enlightened with the truth? How many that you know of have actually had the intestinal fortitude to research what you're saying for themselves and changed their position even if it's just slightly?
Hi Jusayin....thanks for reading my posts.

I've said this before, and I will say it again....I can't change anyone. If I have enlightened anyone, then it is their own doing, by either utilizing what I have said, and then sought out the answers or chose to accept my beliefs just by my post. If they've done the latter, then they really haven't done anything.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30551 Mar 24, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
Thank you for sharing those verses. Lee, it is not my job to control anyone here if they act out they do not have to answer to me. You see if we come to truly realize we are all of us open on display in front of God if one truly believes this I believe he or she would be much more careful in what we say. Lee, could you imagine that this would be your last day on this earth? You know it really could be we are not promised another second of life. I know for me I would ask myself this, was I truly showing love to my neighbor even when he did to me? Have I truly showed the fragrance of Christ in my speach, walk, and thought? I ask myself this question from time to time Lee, it helps me to keep in check I truly know that God can take me out any time now after all I am getting up there in years now.
Lee, the best advice I believe I can share is to show the love of Christ. Jesus is our perfect example is He not? When He was revieled He revieled not did He? Just look at the utter suffering He had to go through on the account of His people He came to save. I sure cannot fully grasp the sufering He had to go though, the Bible tells us He was more marred than any other. The angels gave Him more strength to endure even more. You know Lee as we come closer to the blessed reserrection day of Easter I have to look back and I see just how patient God was with me and how longsuffering and gentle He was, now I sure did not deserve any of this but by His grace alone I am what I am.
So Lee, as I told Dr, if anyone speaks ill of me I just love him the more after all it is God alone that can give one repentance to even see the true gospel we cannot force truth down anyones throat it comes by the love of Christ.
Now Lee, and all here just look within yourself close your eyes for a minite and ask this question, how would I act knowing if this was my last day? Would I really be complaining about what this person said or that person? No, I believe everything comes into perspective pretty quick for most there would be no more name calling no slander and such but out of a fearful heart they would be forced to look within themselves this is why I emplore all here this is the time to examine OUR SELF including me of course to make sure OUR calling and ELECTION is sure. Lee, if we truly do this th rest of the verse ends like this, if you do this you shall not fall. You know why this is Lee? The reason is, we are truly looking in the mirror of the word of God and we see that we miss it every day so what can we do? Yes, we cry out for God's mercy there is no pride in the fox holes is there? Gary
Lee, when I look at my own life I cannot believe just how fast it is going the Bible calls it as fast as a vapor a puff of smoke now you see me now you don't. I have two dogs I walk in the cemetary and I see all these dates [born May 2 1856 dies 1933] Here he lived to see Lincoln and seen the great depression wow! all his frets and worries are where now? gone in smoke. Gary
So, it's too much to ask of you to say, "Hey, dr Shrink. That's not very Christ-like of you." Or, "Hey, dr Shrink. Perhaps, you should tone down your abusive language." Or, "Hey, dr Shrink. Better speech is expected of us." Or, anything.

Duly noted.

But, you'll offer me advice as to how to react to such abusive language by instructing me to show the love of our anointed Savior during such times. And this advice after saying that you can't control anyone. Don't get me wrong, now. I agree. But, wouldn't it be just as profitable to advise dr Shrink to refrain from such abusive language in exchange for a more loving approach that reflects the love of our anointed Savior?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30552 Mar 24, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
If one does not believe anything in the Bible then really nothing is [heresy]
You know Waste there is nothing I can do to make one see truth or just how wrong the path they are on.
<quoted text>
Only an individual can know the path he.she takes. No one can dictate to another the path they are to take.

If one does, then one is misguided to think that they know better than "God".

But as you have stated, you trust the Bible to be true. Unfortunately, you also trust fallible men to tell you that truth.

If you still disagree, and you believe that those individuals were inspired by "God" to write the Bible, then you have limited "God" in "His" inspiration to just a handful of men, and to get it right.

Why do you follow and believe men have the capacity to define "God"?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30553 Mar 24, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
@New Age Spiritual Leader
Initially, I wrote, "Yes. Now, I ask, are we made alive by the word of 'God'?"
You, then, replied, "This is actually a topic that many refuse to acknowledge as an action of Self. We, our being, Self, does these things, in order for you to form this question.
- Self - chooses to read or not read the Bible
- Self - chooases to accept or reject what is read
- Self - chooses to be enlightened to the words in the Bible
Now if you accept that these actions occurs, your question should reflect a more pointed assertion:
Do we become alive by the 'word of God'?
That answer would be applied to what the word 'alive' actually means.
Are we 'aware'?
Are we 'awake'?
Are we 'not dead'?
Are we 'understanding'?
All products of Self.
Jesus promoted it, why do you refute it?"
My reply is this...
Are you kidding me right now?
I've done nothing, as of the last week, but oppose Gary's assertions that we've no control over anything we think, do, react to, or say. And you're asking me why I refute it?!
Then, I posted, "Actually, there are exceptions with the people you mentioned being among them. People that can't understand and/or make such a decision are exempt from judgment. Instead, they'll be healed, if need be, and allowed entrance into the kingdom."
Then, you posted, "Is this another unfounded claim?
Where does 'God' specifically state this?
FYI - Since 'God' only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source, right?
Remember - please make sure you are quoting the specific text(s) that state the specific process you mentioned above."
I did exactly that by quoting Hebrews 5:14, 1Kings 3:9, Isaiah 7:16, and Luke 12:47-48. You'll notice that two of the quotes are from the old covenant texts. And you replied with what?
"So.
You put a lot of references to 'non-God' persons.
Please provide something speicifically from 'God'. Meaning, not Paul, Luke, etc.
You can do this, right?"
Are you kidding me right now?! You started out by saying, "Since 'God' only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source." Then, you finished with "You put a lot of references to 'non-God' persons.
Please provide something speicifically from 'God'."
It seems, to me, you're only looking to argue, and about anything. You can oppose and reject anything you want, as that's your prerogative and right. But, perhaps, it's time you provided evidence of your foundation, and your reason for objecting.
QUESTION: Had I said that "God" told me, specifically, would you have believed me? And how could you prove I was either, lying, or just wrong?
QUESTION: Had I said that "God" told me, specifically, would you have believed me? And how could you prove I was either, lying, or just wrong?

Then don't make the claims that you even know what "God" can or cannot do, is supposed to do or not, or anything claim that includes "God".

But in addition, I do ask you to take that step to be completely honest, and it appears you won't.

Can you admit that men wrote the Bible?

Can you admit that "God" is limitless in "His" inspiration and can inspire anyone - even those outside the limited selection of men of the Bible?

Can you be honest and admit that you would rather utilize many sayings and teachings by "Paul", and set aside books that blatantly show that they are teachings by Jesus?

Can you admit that possibly 7 of the original Apostles are not included in your study of Jesus, yet think it is complete?

I know Gary won't. Can you?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30554 Mar 24, 2013
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
If there are any questions concerning the differnce between what we can do concerning going here or doing this or that in this world we can do however, our will is very limited at best one may want to take a trip he gets in the car and out he goes and breaks his leg there goes his will, he may want to wear his best suit he puts it on and a huge ink stain is on the jacket there goes his will. In our every day life we can chose what we want to buy and how we want to live and such. However, once it comes to spiritual matters here are the facts,
1- There is not one that will seek God on His terms no mnot one! Romans 3:10-12
2- Mankind is spiritually dead in his sins he cannot come to God on His terms because he is dead in sins and trespsses, Eph. 2:1.
3- The fact is, we hasd no say in our first birth we had no say when we would be born, we had no say to accept our birth.
4- The exact same goes for our second birth Jesus said you must be [born again] as one here said being born again is all THE WORK OF GOD and this is a true statement.
Jesus told us you have not chosen me but I have chosen you, John 16:15, will we believe Jesus or our plan? God tells us it is not of him that can will him self saved but only of God that showeth mercy, Romans 9:15-16
6- Some would like to isolate some verses of God's word and say this salvation was just to Israel God is no respector of persons salvation was always by the faith of Christ Abraham was justified by fatih we can read account fter account in Heb. 11, telling us how salvation was for the O.T and the N.T
7- God tells us that faith is a gift of God least any man should boast it is not eraned as some would like to believe but it is a free gift both the grace and the faith, read Eph. 2:8-9
Those that want to teach a do it your self gospel is free to do this but it will be at a terrbile cost I am sorry to say. However, I have warned all here my hands are clean salvation belongs all to God and God will get all the glory for every kneee shall bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. They may not believe He is Lord over the complete work of salvation now but soon they will believe this for a fact.
Here I would encourage anyone to prove this doctrine wrong show me any verse and if I cannot explain it then I have to do my homework on the subject in more detail I do not mind it is not my pride at stack here that is gone out the window. Now I will ask you one verse and if you explain this verse great then we can move on. You see salvation is far, far, to important to trust in any man but it must be by the word and the Spirit of God alone.
Here is my first question, who believes that being [born again] is the work of man? Either one is brn again or saved by the work of God or he is not we cannot have it both ways as I was sharing either grace is all grace or it is works, please read Romans 11:6, we cannot mix grace with works this is just a basic biblical fact we must deal with here if not here then the one will deal with this matter later. However, then it will be to late sad to say this is the time to make sure your calling and ELECTION IS SURE, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Those that are truly seekers of truth will search those verses out in great detail because really what can be more important to make sure your calling and election is sure? Thank you all for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
YEAH PAUL!!

I wonder what Jesus says about these things?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30555 Mar 24, 2013
To Judge, Or Not To Judge?
__________

EXAMPLE #1 - Acts 17:22-23, 30

Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

EXAMPLE #2 - 1Corinthians 5:1-13

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
__________

What did our anointed Savior mean at Matthew 7?

Matthew 7:1-5

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

First, there are two definitions for "judging." One means "to condemn," which none are allowed. The second, though, means "to discern". To condemn means "to sentence to death." To discern means "to know and share the difference between righteousness and unrighteousness". The above examples prove discernment and the proper actions/reactions.

The concluding statement made by our anointed Savior should explain what he meant. He said, "Thou HYPOCRITE, FIRST cast out the beam out of thine own eye; AND THEN shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

It should be obvious, then, that his point was not that we should refrain from judging, where we share the difference between righteousness and unrighteousness, and the proper actions/reactions. It should be obvious, then, that his point was that we should refrain from being hypocritical. In this, if any of us, at one point in time, found pleasure in fornication, but after time, learned to completely turn from fornication, then we have every right to approach fornicators regarding their choice.

Thank you.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30556 Mar 24, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>Homosexuality is a derivative of pedophilia and bestiality. Now, what I say is true. Yours, not so much. If you say that Catholicism is a derivative of pagan beliefs, then maybe, but in reality it is a pagan belief.
Homosexuality is one kind of sexual orientation or who one is attracted too sexually. It has nothing to do with philias which are non-consensual and abusive. To make such a hurtful remark speak volumes about who you are as a person doesn't it? Yes, Catholicism is a derivative of pagan beliefs as well as all Christian sects. What is your point? Do you have one?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30557 Mar 24, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Brother Lee Love wrote, "QUESTION: Had I said that 'God' told me, specifically, would you have believed me? And how could you prove I was either, lying, or just wrong?"

Then don't make the claims that you even know what "God" can or cannot do, is supposed to do or not, or anything claim that includes "God".
My point is, you don't know. And had I said that "God" told me directly, there's no way you could prove I was either, lying, or just wrong. But, judging by your response, I think it's safe to assume you'd either, just think I was insane, or would just come right out and say you thought I was insane. Also, judging by your above statement and the fact that you call yourself "New Age Spiritual Leader," you'd have me believe that all else are erroneous while you're not. So, now, I ask you...

1) What are your core beliefs?

2) What is this ultimate spiritual awareness you're leading others toward?

3) Are there rules and stipulations to adhere to?

4) What is the origin of your beliefs.
NASL wrote:
But in addition, I do ask you to take that step to be completely honest, and it appears you won't.
Try to refrain from falsely accusing me, please and if you will. When it comes to my beliefs, I'm an open book, even at the risk of becoming a pariah in Topix.
NASL wrote:
Can you admit that men wrote the Bible?
Not only could I, but I've said that, too, many times. I've also gone so far as to say that Christendom puts way too much unnecessary trust in the interpreters of the bible. In my humble opinion, though, the question is not in whether or not men wrote the bible, but in their provocation and purpose.
NASL wrote:
Can you admit that "God" is limitless in "His" inspiration and can inspire anyone - even those outside the limited selection of men of the Bible?
Of course, I can admit that. The true question, though, is-- Did He?
NASL wrote:
Can you be honest and admit that you would rather utilize many sayings and teachings by "Paul", and set aside books that blatantly show that they are teachings by Jesus?
No. I try, to the best of my ability, to utilize the teachings of our anointed Savior in all I share. What you both, fail to understand and ignored when I shared this the first time is, Paul's letters are a bit more informative. Paul's letter were written to not only the Israelites, but to Gentiles that had no knowledge whatsoever of the content and context of the old covenant texts. The gospel authors concerned themselves more with recording the history of our anointed Savior's 3.5-year ministry and how it fulfilled the law, psalms, and prophesies, of the old covenant texts.
NASL wrote:
Can you admit that possibly 7 of the original Apostles are not included in your study of Jesus, yet think it is complete?
I know Gary won't. Can you?
I've researched and examined many of the writings not considered canonical. In doing so, I've found that many contradicted not those of the new covenant texts that are considered canonical, but the Torah and Tanakh. It's the latter that matters most. And my research and examinations have been quite thorough, and have been on-going for almost 30-years. I don't believe what I do because I've accepted what's been taught me. I haven't been affiliated with any denomination of Christendom for 30-years. And I'm proud to admit that when it comes to religions and philosophies, I'm self-taught. Believe me when I tell you-- I'm not a big fan of the doctrines and practices of Christendom. My religion is Mashiyachiym.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30563 Mar 24, 2013
Hi Lee:

Those verses I have shared in, 2 Peter 1:10 and 2 Cor. 13:5 concerning making ones ELECTION and CALLING sure are God's definition not man's free will but God's elction program concerning who He will CALL.

For example, when we even look at this on an earthly level when one elects a Mayor, President, it is not up to the person that becomes elected is it? No, when God CALLS one He will come to Him because God has ELECTED him. What I would recomend is to do the word study method to see how God defines His words. Here God tells us of the twin brothers Esau and Jacob how God elects one and does not elect the other.

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH." Romans 9:11

Now I understand many are offended with this fact but who am I to reply against God and tell Him why hast thou made me thus?

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:20-21

You see God here put our will into place and we don't like it because it removes [self] out of the picture when it comes to accepting our so called salvation that is really not true salvation.

1- We see that God elected Jacob and did not elect Easu He did this before they were ever born neither done any good or evil why? So the purpose ACCORDING to Election might stand it is NOT according to our works, to further prove this point without doubt God tells us in, Eph. 1:4-6

"Accoring as He hath CHOSEN US in Him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein HE HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN the beloved."

Lee, who's will? You see we did not accept Him He has to accept us in the beloved the Lord. He already did this before the very foundation of the world so how do you think we have any say in the matter it is already finished. God PREDETINATED the elect this means before time, AND HE GOES ON AND SAYS ACCORDING AS HE HATH CHOSEN US. WHERE DOES [SELF] COME INTO ALL THIS?

Lee, you see how all this ties together as a choesive picture that is in harmony with the word of God there is no confusion in these statements the problem arises is, many do not like God's plan it really is as simple as this. God locks His will and His work and His elction and His calling there is nothing her about [self] To God be the glory. Thank you. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>What you quoted, above, are further examples of the blessed free-will "God's" bestowed upon us.
1a) Peter instructed the elect to "give diligence." What Peter did not instruct the elect to do was wait on Father to make them diligent.
1b) And this diligence is so that the elect can make their calling and election sure. What Peter didn't tell the elect was that their calling and election was already sure.
1c) Peter explained that such effort to become diligent will keep the elect from falling. What Peter didn't explain was that no effort was necessary on the elect's part because it was all in "God's" hands.
2a) Paul instructed the disciples to examine themselves. Such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were out of their control.
2b) Paul instructed the disciples to prove themselves. Again, such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were entirely controlled by "God".
Thank you for your time and consideration, Gary.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30564 Mar 24, 2013
Hi Lee:

You keep saying Paul or Peter instructed the desciples to make their calling and election sure. Lee, this is addressed to all the [BRETHREN] it is not just isolated to a few no way it is not what Paul said or Peter but what saith the Lord. God diricted these men by the power of the living Holy Spirit of God for the word declares that the prophecy came NOT BY THE WILL OF MAN [This includes Paul or Peter] but by Holy men of God as God the Holy Spirit moved them. You see Lee, all scripture is God breathed by the Holy Spirit it is given to man but it was not Paul's idea or Peter but it was given by the power of the Holy Spirit. God really wrote the Bible but He used men to say what He wanted said not what they thought should be said, there is a HUGE difference here Lee, maybe you never looked at it in this way but we can see this is how God crafted His word read, Jer. 36:1-2, and 2 Tim. 3:15-16.

We do not want to lift up any man including Paul or Peter they said we are just like any man and they torn their cloths so men would not exalt them. You can see this is the problem in many of the churches today they exalt man and woman where they should not be even the angel of the Lord said when John bowed down to him he said do not do this thing he was just a servant of God also, Rev. 22:8-9. Lee, this is why I just call the Bible God's word the word of God, it is not the word of any mere man. Thank you for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>What you quoted, above, are further examples of the blessed free-will "God's" bestowed upon us.
1a) Peter instructed the elect to "give diligence." What Peter did not instruct the elect to do was wait on Father to make them diligent.
1b) And this diligence is so that the elect can make their calling and election sure. What Peter didn't tell the elect was that their calling and election was already sure.
1c) Peter explained that such effort to become diligent will keep the elect from falling. What Peter didn't explain was that no effort was necessary on the elect's part because it was all in "God's" hands.
2a) Paul instructed the disciples to examine themselves. Such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were out of their control.
2b) Paul instructed the disciples to prove themselves. Again, such instruction would be entirely unnecessary had the disciples been taught and learned that all thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, were entirely controlled by "God".
Thank you for your time and consideration, Gary.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30565 Mar 25, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
Those verses I have shared in, 2 Peter 1:10 and 2 Cor. 13:5 concerning making ones ELECTION and CALLING sure are God's definition not man's free will but God's elction program concerning who He will CALL.
For example, when we even look at this on an earthly level when one elects a Mayor, President, it is not up to the person that becomes elected is it? No, when God CALLS one He will come to Him because God has ELECTED him.
Actually, the vocation is given to those that run for election, on their own accord. A person can't be elected without first applying for the position.
Gary wrote:
What I would recomend is to do the word study method to see how God defines His words.
That's aggravating that you continue to declare that I've not done word-studies, but you have.
Gary wrote:
Here God tells us of the twin brothers Esau and Jacob how God elects one and does not elect the other.
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH." Romans 9:11
Now I understand many are offended with this fact but who am I to reply against God and tell Him why hast thou made me thus?
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:20-21
Once again, you've repeated yourself without even an attempt at addressing my post of Romans 9. Well, between the two of us, only I've shared an explanation of what Romans 9 means by comparing spiritual with spiritual. All you've done was quote the verses and without explanation. That's not good enough.
Gary wrote:
You see God here put our will into place and we don't like it because it removes [self] out of the picture when it comes to accepting our so called salvation that is really not true salvation.
Yeah. Because people get so upset when they hear that "God" has it all under control without their help. Yeah. I'm sure people get so offended to hear that.
Gary wrote:
1- We see that God elected Jacob and did not elect Easu He did this before they were ever born neither done any good or evil why? So the purpose ACCORDING to Election might stand it is NOT according to our works,
And Paul was referring, specifically, to Jacob and Esau. Not everybody. I explained that in my post. You haven't.
Gary wrote:
to further prove this point without doubt God tells us in, Eph. 1:4-6
"Accoring as He hath CHOSEN US in Him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein HE HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN the beloved."
That doesn't prove that the elect are every believer. Here's a question for you.

In the parable of the wedding-feast, at Matthew 22, our anointed Savior mentions guests that are to attend the feast and observe the wedding. The servants were sent out to gather, first, those bidden to attend. After them, they were sent out to gather as many as they could find to attend the wedding-feast.

QUESTION: If the bride-groom is our anointed Savior and the Church is his bride, then who are the servants and guests?
__________

The Great Wedding-Feast Attendance

King - Father Yahoweh
Bride-groom - Our anointed Savior
Bride - Church
Servants -
Guests -
__________

Fill in the blanks, please and if you will.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 2 min kentthetard 675,425
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 4 min Bongo 110,022
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 1 hr hallucinatingGab 982,187
68 year old man missing from Deens Landing?! 1 hr bugg_85 1
Play "End of the Word" ..... Part 2 1 hr andet1987 69
My NEW SPECULATION about the mystery vehicle an... 1 hr andet1987 10
I love to show off my hot wife (Jan '12) 4 hr Deewhy 23
More from around the web