What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30488 Mar 23, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
If one does not believe anything in the Bible then really nothing is [heresy]
You know Wsate there is nothing I can do to make one see truth or just how wrong the path they are on. God the Holy Spirit must make His word real to a person I cannot do this no matter what I share the people of Israel did not believe in God even when they seen the great miricles by the hand of Moses as God was working through him they could not enter into the promise land because of unbelief so no matter what anyone tells you, shows you it is impossible to believe unless God gives one the faith to believe and we know faith is a gift of God least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9
Take for example, some things you may agree upon I don't know. Some of the laws that are coming into effect and already has as abortion same sex marriage and so on. These laws are against God's laws so who will we believe? Will we believe what God tells us in His word or will we just go along with the majority? I believe personally this nation is going in the wrong diriction like never before America is not what it used to be sad, so sad to say. America was hit in 911 and out of fear what was the three words used? Yes,they were [God bless America] that is odd since the destruction and all that took place why would they say such a thing? You see what they were really feeling was this, and they did not know it by saying those words it was like them saying, God is still blessing America is He not? You see this made them question their own nation. Now we can see some of the laws that are coming into effect are really going to be the down fall of America sad to say. I see no turning around from there wicked ways when God calls it a sin or an abomination we can rest assure this is what this is. I pray for America and the leaders in Congress, the Senate, judges, the President, and such that this nation will come back to the first prinicples that it stood for. I am saddened by what is taking place and I cannot prove to them that they are wrong the reason being they do not hold to the devine standard that our for-fathers held that is the Bible. I aslo know God is in complete control He raises up kings and He brings them down. We as a nation is soon ripe for judgment by God if they continue down these paths.
Now many people knows what this nation is allowing to take place will be the ruin of this nation some people can see this while others are saying peace and safety.
Waste, when it comes to spiritual matters one will never see or understand spiritual truth unless God makes it real to them I cannot do this all that the believers are to do is faithfully to declare the gospel we are called to be a wittness that is it. We do not force moral laws on one it has to come to the convictions of the person it is all a very private thing between you and God. No matter what happens in this nation God will have the final word. For the true believer this is not his home he is just passing through in the mean time we can leave our mark by faithfully declaring God's word this is what will truly last as the word declares. Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall never pass away. The true believer also hopes for the very best for all and wishes no ill on anyone if he is truly saved he will be Christ like in his speach and his actions. Thank you for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
<quoted text>
True, non-belief would also preclude belief in heresy.

To make on see truth is subjective. It assumes the speaker has knowledge of the truth. Is it possible to fully comprehend the truth? What is truth?

If God gives one the ability to belief, then isn't such an action conditional rather than unconditional?

No, such laws are not against God's law at all. You are assuming you know God's law which is impossible. If God made homosexuals, then God must have done so for a reason. There is nothing in the Bible which precludes commited same sex relationships.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30489 Mar 23, 2013
Understanding Romans 9 - Part I

As we begin reading Romans 9, we can see that Paul's foremost concern is about Israel, their present condition, and how it was effecting the faith within the members (disciples) of the early Church. As a great majority of Israel continued to reject the man many called "Savior," this created doubt (lack of faith) among his disciples. Accordingly, then, Paul's purpose was to comfort the disciples by explaining how this rejection can't and won't effect Father's overall objective.

Paul began his explanation by writing, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." What Paul was trying to explain, at this point, was that it wasn't necessary for the whole nation to become disciples in order for Father to fulfill the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He went on to explain how Father chose Jacob over Esau even before they were born. Then, he asked whether or not we could consider Father unrighteous for such choosing? To explain, Paul quoted Exodus 33:19 when he wrote, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Now, when we read the account that Paul was quoting from, we read that the reason for Father saying what He did was because Moses had just asked that Father prove that He was with Israel and would continue to lead them-- to fulfill the promises made to their forefathers. To prove Himself, Father allowed Moses to see the back of Him. Paul's reason for quoting this was to prove how none can, or will, hinder Father's overall objective, or make them null and void. Then, Paul added, "So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy."

As true as Paul's statement is, should we ignore when David wrote, "But the mercy of Yahoweh is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him (Psa 103:17)"? Should we ignore the declaration in the very law that says, "I Yahoweh thy God am... shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments (Ex 20:6)"? Of course, not. So, what was Paul's point, then?

Paul's point was no different than what we've already been reading. None can, or will, hinder Father's overall objective, regardless of the person, the people, or what anyone does. And the fact that the majority of Israel still rejected the man the disciples called "Savior" can't and won't make a difference, either. Paul, then, used Pharaoh as an example, to prove a similarity between Pharaoh and the majority of Israel. He wrote, "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."

Paul's reason for bringing up this account was to remind the disciples of the history. Pharaoh, at the time, was the leader of a so-called "super-power," but even Pharaoh couldn't oppose Father and keep Israel captive, hindering Father's overall objective. In this, neither can the majority of Israel that continued to reject the "Savior" oppose Father. As Father allowed Pharaoh to become as powerful as he had become, He also allowed those that continued to reject the "Savior" to be the majority. In this, I'm reminded of Deuteronomy 7:7-9.

"Yahoweh did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because Yahoweh loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath Yahoweh brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that Yahoweh thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30490 Mar 23, 2013
Romans 9 - Part II

After Paul's mention of Pharaoh, he wrote, "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" Let us examine Paul's first questions, please.

Paul asked, ""Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" What Paul was asking, in laymen's terms, was this: If Pharaoh, in the end, helped Father to fulfill His overall objective, then why was Pharaoh punished? Paul, then, answered, "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" What Paul was asking was this: Who are we to doubt Father by asking why He allows people to become, if not rebellious, more rebellious, as He did Pharaoh? Paul, then, continues his answer with a statement that many, today, fail to remember, or address. Paul wrote, "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction?" The statement I'm referring to is when Paul wrote that Father "endured with much longsuffering." In Pharaoh's case, Father sent Moses numerous times to warn Pharaoh of a coming plague if Pharaoh didn't comply. But, Pharaoh continued to oppose Father, regardless of the warnings. In this, we can easily conclude that Father didn't make Pharaoh to oppose Him. Rather, based on Pharaoh's attitude and personality throughout his life, Father knew Pharaoh would oppose Him. And He allowed it. And in the end, Father's will was still fulfilled.

After this, Paul quoted verses that proved that such rejection was originally prophesied. Therefore, doubt was unnecessary. He wrote, from Hosea, in regards to the gathering of the spiritually-divorced remnant of Israel, "I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved."
Furthermore, Paul quoted, from Isaiah, "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved." And again, from Isaiah, Paul quoted, "Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha." And to finalize his explanation of comfort, Paul wrote, "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

So, we see, now, that Paul, in no way, shape, or form, was even suggesting that believers were and are chosen, predetermined, or predestined, to be saved while all else were chosen, predetermined, or predestined, to be put to death. Paul was merely proving how that none can oppose Father to the point of hindering His overall objective, regardless of the person, the people, or what one does. In this, even if only one Israelite became a disciple, this wouldn't change one prophecy or promise.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30491 Mar 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Yes I agree, your choice of words is closer to what I meant, although you also do put a great deal of thought into your posts do you not?
Well, then. I guess another "Thank is in order, then. And you're correct. I do try to put a lot of thought into my posts. I try, to the best of my abilities, to answer even future questions regarding the topic at hand.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30492 Mar 23, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Well, then. I guess another "Thank is in order, then. And you're correct. I do try to put a lot of thought into my posts. I try, to the best of my abilities, to answer even future questions regarding the topic at hand.
Your Romans post is right on bro. Thanks for that.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30493 Mar 23, 2013
@New Age Spiritual Leader

Initially, I wrote, "Yes. Now, I ask, are we made alive by the word of 'God'?"

You, then, replied, "This is actually a topic that many refuse to acknowledge as an action of Self. We, our being, Self, does these things, in order for you to form this question.

- Self - chooses to read or not read the Bible
- Self - chooases to accept or reject what is read
- Self - chooses to be enlightened to the words in the Bible

Now if you accept that these actions occurs, your question should reflect a more pointed assertion:

Do we become alive by the 'word of God'?

That answer would be applied to what the word 'alive' actually means.

Are we 'aware'?
Are we 'awake'?
Are we 'not dead'?
Are we 'understanding'?

All products of Self.

Jesus promoted it, why do you refute it?"

My reply is this...

Are you kidding me right now?

I've done nothing, as of the last week, but oppose Gary's assertions that we've no control over anything we think, do, react to, or say. And you're asking me why I refute it?!

Then, I posted, "Actually, there are exceptions with the people you mentioned being among them. People that can't understand and/or make such a decision are exempt from judgment. Instead, they'll be healed, if need be, and allowed entrance into the kingdom."

Then, you posted, "Is this another unfounded claim?

Where does 'God' specifically state this?

FYI - Since 'God' only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source, right?

Remember - please make sure you are quoting the specific text(s) that state the specific process you mentioned above."

I did exactly that by quoting Hebrews 5:14, 1Kings 3:9, Isaiah 7:16, and Luke 12:47-48. You'll notice that two of the quotes are from the old covenant texts. And you replied with what?

"So.

You put a lot of references to 'non-God' persons.

Please provide something speicifically from 'God'. Meaning, not Paul, Luke, etc.

You can do this, right?"

Are you kidding me right now?! You started out by saying, "Since 'God' only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source." Then, you finished with "You put a lot of references to 'non-God' persons.

Please provide something speicifically from 'God'."

It seems, to me, you're only looking to argue, and about anything. You can oppose and reject anything you want, as that's your prerogative and right. But, perhaps, it's time you provided evidence of your foundation, and your reason for objecting.

QUESTION: Had I said that "God" told me, specifically, would you have believed me? And how could you prove I was either, lying, or just wrong?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30494 Mar 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Your Romans post is right on bro. Thanks for that.
I appreciate the support, WasteWater. Thank you so much. I only hope Gary will do just two things.

1) Read it.

2) Express why he either, agrees, or disagrees.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30498 Mar 23, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I appreciate the support, WasteWater. Thank you so much. I only hope Gary will do just two things.
1) Read it.
2) Express why he either, agrees, or disagrees.
I should express why I agree. I agree because IMHO you hit the nail on the head in expressing Paul's motivations. You also showed, by example, a way to read the Bible delving deeply into the issues presented by bringing a context too the table.

Kudos.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30501 Mar 23, 2013
Dear all:

If there are any questions concerning the differnce between what we can do concerning going here or doing this or that in this world we can do however, our will is very limited at best one may want to take a trip he gets in the car and out he goes and breaks his leg there goes his will, he may want to wear his best suit he puts it on and a huge ink stain is on the jacket there goes his will. In our every day life we can chose what we want to buy and how we want to live and such. However, once it comes to spiritual matters here are the facts,

1- There is not one that will seek God on His terms no mnot one! Romans 3:10-12

2- Mankind is spiritually dead in his sins he cannot come to God on His terms because he is dead in sins and trespsses, Eph. 2:1.

3- The fact is, we hasd no say in our first birth we had no say when we would be born, we had no say to accept our birth.

4- The exact same goes for our second birth Jesus said you must be [born again] as one here said being born again is all THE WORK OF GOD and this is a true statement.

Jesus told us you have not chosen me but I have chosen you, John 16:15, will we believe Jesus or our plan? God tells us it is not of him that can will him self saved but only of God that showeth mercy, Romans 9:15-16

6- Some would like to isolate some verses of God's word and say this salvation was just to Israel God is no respector of persons salvation was always by the faith of Christ Abraham was justified by fatih we can read account fter account in Heb. 11, telling us how salvation was for the O.T and the N.T

7- God tells us that faith is a gift of God least any man should boast it is not eraned as some would like to believe but it is a free gift both the grace and the faith, read Eph. 2:8-9

Those that want to teach a do it your self gospel is free to do this but it will be at a terrbile cost I am sorry to say. However, I have warned all here my hands are clean salvation belongs all to God and God will get all the glory for every kneee shall bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. They may not believe He is Lord over the complete work of salvation now but soon they will believe this for a fact.

Here I would encourage anyone to prove this doctrine wrong show me any verse and if I cannot explain it then I have to do my homework on the subject in more detail I do not mind it is not my pride at stack here that is gone out the window. Now I will ask you one verse and if you explain this verse great then we can move on. You see salvation is far, far, to important to trust in any man but it must be by the word and the Spirit of God alone.

Here is my first question, who believes that being [born again] is the work of man? Either one is brn again or saved by the work of God or he is not we cannot have it both ways as I was sharing either grace is all grace or it is works, please read Romans 11:6, we cannot mix grace with works this is just a basic biblical fact we must deal with here if not here then the one will deal with this matter later. However, then it will be to late sad to say this is the time to make sure your calling and ELECTION IS SURE, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Those that are truly seekers of truth will search those verses out in great detail because really what can be more important to make sure your calling and election is sure? Thank you all for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15

“Timshel”

Since: Jan 12

Tulsa, OK

#30502 Mar 23, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
nobody he enlighten,
none of the believers are more lovely believers because of his posts.
this scumbag is only meance around talking nonsense leading nowhere
That's unfortunate and you're entitled to your opinion but respectfully, I beg to differ with you.

If people or "believers" allowed just an ounce of logic to penetrate they wouldn't be lovely believers any longer.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30503 Mar 23, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
BLL guessing is not expressing after 2000 years Paul motivations?
are you crazy or what?
Bible is GODS EXPRESSING MORAL CODEX WORD
not Paul motivations,nor specualitive thoughts of 21 century little punk namde BLL?
The Bible is written by men, it expresses their notions and opinions of God.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30504 Mar 23, 2013
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
If there are any questions concerning the differnce between what we can do concerning going here or doing this or that in this world we can do however, our will is very limited at best one may want to take a trip he gets in the car and out he goes and breaks his leg there goes his will, he may want to wear his best suit he puts it on and a huge ink stain is on the jacket there goes his will. In our every day life we can chose what we want to buy and how we want to live and such. However, once it comes to spiritual matters here are the facts,
1- There is not one that will seek God on His terms no mnot one! Romans 3:10-12
2- Mankind is spiritually dead in his sins he cannot come to God on His terms because he is dead in sins and trespsses, Eph. 2:1.
3- The fact is, we hasd no say in our first birth we had no say when we would be born, we had no say to accept our birth.
4- The exact same goes for our second birth Jesus said you must be [born again] as one here said being born again is all THE WORK OF GOD and this is a true statement.
Jesus told us you have not chosen me but I have chosen you, John 16:15, will we believe Jesus or our plan? God tells us it is not of him that can will him self saved but only of God that showeth mercy, Romans 9:15-16
6- Some would like to isolate some verses of God's word and say this salvation was just to Israel God is no respector of persons salvation was always by the faith of Christ Abraham was justified by fatih we can read account fter account in Heb. 11, telling us how salvation was for the O.T and the N.T
7- God tells us that faith is a gift of God least any man should boast it is not eraned as some would like to believe but it is a free gift both the grace and the faith, read Eph. 2:8-9
Those that want to teach a do it your self gospel is free to do this but it will be at a terrbile cost I am sorry to say. However, I have warned all here my hands are clean salvation belongs all to God and God will get all the glory for every kneee shall bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. They may not believe He is Lord over the complete work of salvation now but soon they will believe this for a fact.
Here I would encourage anyone to prove this doctrine wrong show me any verse and if I cannot explain it then I have to do my homework on the subject in more detail I do not mind it is not my pride at stack here that is gone out the window. Now I will ask you one verse and if you explain this verse great then we can move on. You see salvation is far, far, to important to trust in any man but it must be by the word and the Spirit of God alone.
Here is my first question, who believes that being [born again] is the work of man? Either one is brn again or saved by the work of God or he is not we cannot have it both ways as I was sharing either grace is all grace or it is works, please read Romans 11:6, we cannot mix grace with works this is just a basic biblical fact we must deal with here if not here then the one will deal with this matter later. However, then it will be to late sad to say this is the time to make sure your calling and ELECTION IS SURE, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5. Those that are truly seekers of truth will search those verses out in great detail because really what can be more important to make sure your calling and election is sure? Thank you all for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15
There are many in the world who seek God without the Bible. What about them?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30505 Mar 23, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
I should express why I agree. I agree because IMHO you hit the nail on the head in expressing Paul's motivations. You also showed, by example, a way to read the Bible delving deeply into the issues presented by bringing a context too the table.
Kudos.
I truly do appreciate your input, WasteWater. Just maybe, you'll encourage others to, maybe, not agree with my assertions, but examine the scriptures more thoroughly and either, examine, or re-examine, what they've learned, at least.

Personally, I believe that a one of the issues is that people tend to overlook some key necessities. One that I feel is most vital is speaker-audience relevance. Another is intention. And another is context according to content. Case in point, John 3:16 is one of the most popular verses in the whole bible. But, are people interpreting the verse correctly?

"For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (HINT: Remember my emphases.)

To understand this verse, we have to begin a few verses back. As we read John 3, we read that our anointed Savior's discussion with Nicodemus. Verses 14 and 15 has our anointed Savior saying, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Our anointed Savior was referring to history, recorded in Numbers 21. In Numbers 21, it's recorded that Israel began to speak against "God". Because of this and as it's written, "..Yahoweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." The people repented. To alleviate the problem and as it's written, Father said, "Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live." Moses obeyed. Verse 9 says, "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

Now, who was afflicted according to Numbers 21? Again, "..and much people of Israel died."

So, who was our anointed Savior referring to when he mentioned the account at Numbers 21?

Would I be wrong for reiterating John 3:14-15 to read as such?

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness [for Israel], even so must the Son of man be lifted up [for Israel]: That WHOSOEVER [of Israel that] believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Does not Acts 5:30-31 agree? This says, "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance TO ISRAEL, and forgiveness of sins." Is it not written, "Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matt 1:20-21)"? Do these not coincide with my assertions, as odd as they may seem? But, where's the confusion?

The confusion, at John 3:16, is in the term "world". Because the term "world" is present, people automatically apply the most broadest definition possible. But, is this accurate? Consider the following, please and if you will.

Isaiah 45:17 says, "But ISRAEL shall be saved in Yahoweh with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end.

Did not Father call Israel a "world"?

And what of the term "whosoever"?

Joel 2:32 says, "And it shall come to pass, that WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of Yahoweh shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as Yahoweh hath said, and in the remnant whom Yahoweh shall call."

Now, are my assertions that erroneous? I'd appreciate your input, WasteWater.

Until next time...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30506 Mar 23, 2013
@Gary

C'mon now, Gary. Have you seen dr Shrink's latest entry?

"Did you know that BLL prepared riots before 5/21/2011 familyradio to take over familyradio and be big bongo president of this radio?

HE EVEN ARGUE WITH CAMPING ABOUT PAYING HIM FOR THIS RADIO STATION AFTER FALLING APART AFTER 5/21"

C'mon now, Gary. You were a firsthand witness the whole time I opposed Harold Camping's prediction. And you know that what dr Shrink said is a blatant, outright lie! If you can remember, I took leave from Topix, maybe, a couple of months before May 21st even came. But, now, dr Shrink has resorted to bearing false-witness against me.

Of all in this thread, dr Shrink (supposedly) respects you. When do you think will be a good time to stop approaching dr Shrink with such a humble stance? In Titus, it's written, "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers... Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert... teaching things which they ought not... rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."

When do you think dr Shrink has gone too far?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30509 Mar 24, 2013
Following are a few verses that attest to the blessed free-will that Father bestows upon us!
__________

John 7:17 (New International Version)
Anyone who CHOOSES to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve Yahoweh, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahoweh.

Isaiah 56:4
For thus saith Yahoweh unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and CHOOSE the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant.

Isaiah 7:15-16
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and CHOOSE the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and CHOOSE the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Psalm 25:12 (New International Version)
Who, then, are those who fear Yahoweh? He will instruct them in the ways THEY should CHOOSE.

Proverbs 1:28-29
Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
For that they hated knowledge, and did not CHOOSE the fear of Yahoweh.
__________

That's just a few.

QUESTION: How do we reconcile the meaning of these verses in order to believe that we have no control over our own thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30510 Mar 24, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I truly do appreciate your input, WasteWater. Just maybe, you'll encourage others to, maybe, not agree with my assertions, but examine the scriptures more thoroughly and either, examine, or re-examine, what they've learned, at least.
Personally, I believe that a one of the issues is that people tend to overlook some key necessities. One that I feel is most vital is speaker-audience relevance. Another is intention. And another is context according to content. Case in point, John 3:16 is one of the most popular verses in the whole bible. But, are people interpreting the verse correctly?
"For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (HINT: Remember my emphases.)
To understand this verse, we have to begin a few verses back. As we read John 3, we read that our anointed Savior's discussion with Nicodemus. Verses 14 and 15 has our anointed Savior saying, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Our anointed Savior was referring to history, recorded in Numbers 21. In Numbers 21, it's recorded that Israel began to speak against "God". Because of this and as it's written, "..Yahoweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." The people repented. To alleviate the problem and as it's written, Father said, "Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live." Moses obeyed. Verse 9 says, "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."
Now, who was afflicted according to Numbers 21? Again, "..and much people of Israel died."
So, who was our anointed Savior referring to when he mentioned the account at Numbers 21?
Would I be wrong for reiterating John 3:14-15 to read as such?
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness [for Israel], even so must the Son of man be lifted up [for Israel]: That WHOSOEVER [of Israel that] believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Does not Acts 5:30-31 agree? This says, "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.... for to give repentance TO ISRAEL, and forgiveness of sins." Is it not written, "Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matt 1:20-21)"? Do these not coincide with my assertions, as odd as they may seem? But, where's the confusion?
The confusion, at John 3:16, is in the term "world". Because the term "world" is present, people automatically apply the most broadest definition possible. But, is this accurate? Consider the following, please and if you will.
Isaiah 45:17 says, "But ISRAEL shall be saved in Yahoweh with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end.
Did not Father call Israel a "world"?
And what of the term "whosoever"?
Joel 2:32 says, "And it shall come to pass, that WHOSOEVER shall call on the name of Yahoweh shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as Yahoweh hath said, and in the remnant whom Yahoweh shall call."
Now, are my assertions that erroneous? I'd appreciate your input, WasteWater.
Until next time...
Well done.
Are you familiar with inverted parallel sturcture (chiasm)? John is written this way. It is a teaching story. Many of the Psalms share this structure also.
http://village.hcc-nd.edu/hodonnell/JohnTEACH...
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/23_parallel.htm...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30511 Mar 24, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Would you prefer a book written by dogs or by pigs?
YAWN
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30512 Mar 24, 2013
Hi Waste:

That is a very good question and I am greatful that you have asked.

Question, there are many in the world that seek God without the Bible what about them?

You see Waste, God has given us a devine standard to go by and to help us in all the questions concerning why are we here? How did we get here? Is there a greater being than us? How did the world come into being? Questions like this could never be answered unless God has given us all the answers.

Take for example, God tells us how He made the world and how He made man and woman Now Moses wrote the first five books what help make the Bible and Moses was not even around for thosands of years later so how on earth could he explain all this? God the Holy Spirit moved Moses to write just what God wanted for the world to know as the word declares, The Bible did not come into being by the will of man but Holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. God gave us example after example in His word how He told His prophets to say what He wanted said word for word as He told Jerimiah in Jer. 36:1-2, 2 Tim. 3:15-16, and so on.

You see Waste, we would all be in the same place that is grouping in the dark not knowing just speculating how all this came into being which many will do.

Now there are most people in the world that will seek after a god that is created more in their image and in their likeness becasuse they want a god that they can chose to their own liking this even happens in the churches today they do not follow God's rules when it come to how He saves, mankind in their sin nature hate the true gospel of the Bible because it leaves [self][me][i] out of the equation mankind wants a salvation that they can atain by their power when they want it and how they want it so what they are really doing is chosing a god that is more suited to their liking this is why we have so many different religions Satan will be more than glad to accomadate to what the sinful nature of man wants not what God wants this is why in many cases you will not hear many people love the true gospel of grace alone apart from any work of man least he should boat, Eph. 2:8-9. You see, mankind loves to boast in what they have done look at me, look what I know, look at what I have done, I helped get 10 people saved today all 10 accepted Jesus today. All this may sound great to the flesh but the real problem is, look at what I have done, me, me, i, i, we, we, God tells us over and over so very plain that you cannot chose salvation Jesus has to do all the work in fact, we cannot come to the Lord unles the Father draws one to come why? The main foundational reason is, the word also tells us that we are all born dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, and that there is not one dead man that will seek after God no not one, Romans 3:10-12, why? Because we are all spiritually born dead. God allowed for our first birth and He must allow for our second birth of being [born again] they both are the work of God least any man should boast.

You see Waste, in our sinful nature this gospel is not appealing to us at all I understand this because I to had a do it your self have it your way self help gospel. However,, I can tell you without any doubt I was not a true child of God this I know because the gospel I had was in rebelion to God's salvation program. So no matter how many verses I share unless God the Holy Spirit applies His word to the one He saves he will never seek after God He first must seek us as the one sheep that was lost out of the 100 Jesus went and sought that one sheep that was His out until He saved him. Salvation is very simple in fact, we all must become as a child to believe and this also takes the work of God. When God tells us that it is not of man to will to become saved but of God that shows mercy, do we believe this? Thank you. Gary
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many in the world who seek God without the Bible. What about them?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30514 Mar 24, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Waste:
That is a very good question and I am greatful that you have asked.
Question, there are many in the world that seek God without the Bible what about them?
You see Waste, God has given us a devine standard to go by and to help us in all the questions concerning why are we here? How did we get here? Is there a greater being than us? How did the world come into being? Questions like this could never be answered unless God has given us all the answers.
Take for example, God tells us how He made the world and how He made man and woman Now Moses wrote the first five books what help make the Bible and Moses was not even around for thosands of years later so how on earth could he explain all this? God the Holy Spirit moved Moses to write just what God wanted for the world to know as the word declares, The Bible did not come into being by the will of man but Holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. God gave us example after example in His word how He told His prophets to say what He wanted said word for word as He told Jerimiah in Jer. 36:1-2, 2 Tim. 3:15-16, and so on.
You see Waste, we would all be in the same place that is grouping in the dark not knowing just speculating how all this came into being which many will do.
Now there are most people in the world that will seek after a god that is created more in their image and in their likeness becasuse they want a god that they can chose to their own liking this even happens in the churches today they do not follow God's rules when it come to how He saves, mankind in their sin nature hate the true gospel of the Bible because it leaves [self][me][i] out of the equation mankind wants a salvation that they can atain by their power when they want it and how they want it so what they are really doing is chosing a god that is more suited to their liking this is why we have so many different religions Satan will be more than glad to accomadate to what the sinful nature of man wants not what God wants this is why in many cases you will not hear many people love the true gospel of grace alone apart from any work of man least he should boat, Eph. 2:8-9. You see, mankind loves to boast in what they have done look at me, look what I know, look at what I have done, I helped get 10 people saved today all 10 accepted Jesus today. All this may sound great to the flesh but the real problem is, look at what I have done, me, me, i, i, we, we, God tells us over and over so very plain that you cannot chose salvation Jesus has to do all the work in fact, we cannot come to the Lord unles the Father draws one to come why? The main foundational reason is, the word also tells us that we are all born dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, and that there is not one dead man that will seek after God no not one, Romans 3:10-12, why? Because we are all spiritually born dead. God allowed for our first birth and He must allow for our second birth of being [born again] they both are the work of God least any man should boast.
You see Waste, in our sinful nature this gospel is not appealing to us at all I understand this because I to had a do it your self have it your way self help gospel. However,, I can tell you without any doubt I was not a true child of God this I know because the gospel I had was in rebelion to God's salvation program. So no matter how many verses I share unless God the Holy Spirit applies His word to the one He saves he will never seek after God He first must seek us as the one sheep that was lost out of the 100 Jesus went and sought that one sheep that was His out until He saved him. Salvation is very simple in fact, we all must become as a child to believe and this also takes the work of God. When God tells us that it is not of man to will to become saved but of God that shows mercy, do we believe this? Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
I'm partly in agreement. OTOH I believe that there are many paths and many great spiritual leaders.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30516 Mar 24, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
it is OK with me
what kind of thoughts you got?
IF YOU SAY SO? THAT BIBLE IS MAN WRITTEN,it is ok with me and maybe with you
Just keep this revelation to yourselves
for me Bible is written by God ,who used man earthly pen as His writting Gods Words to His Children 2 Tim 3;16.2 Peter 1.20,Jerem 36;1-5
if you are not His Child,Bible as codex of moral law is not written for you?
kapish mister bo
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I disagree that God used the people just too impart some particular idea or rule. If divine inspiration is what you mean I would agree with you. The creative force within all people may indeed be divine inspiration.

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