What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
evoL eeL rehtorB

Concord, NC

#30418 Mar 21, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Adam:
The reason why is the word of God tells us that this life style is forbidden by God. So, the problem comes down to being obediant to the word of God or man? Read Romans 1, this maybe of some help to answer your question. Thank you. Gary
Why be obedient, at all?

According to you, we have absolutely no control, whatsoever, of our thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, nor on the salvation granted us. Therefore, whether we're obedient or not makes no difference, at all. If I'm obedient, "God" will have compassion on me if He chooses to have compassion on me. And if I'm disobedient, "God" will have compassion on me if He chooses to have compassion on me. So, what's the point of it all?

How can anyone call themselves "saved" if we don't even know, for sure, we're saved? How can anyone say that they know for sure that "God" is going to have compassion on them?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30419 Mar 21, 2013
evoL eeL rehtorB wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, there are exceptions with the people you mentioned being among them. People that can't understand and/or make such a decision are exempt from judgment. Instead, they'll be healed, if need be, and allowed entrance into the kingdom.
Oh really. Isn't that assuming a great deal? What are you talking about healing anyway?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30420 Mar 21, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd be surprised what you can learn about religion, when you step outside the comfort zone that has been established.
It is quite an amazing feeling of freedom from having to rely on or hear from those who disregard being honest and would rather lie to themselves and others, on top of thinking they are a special breed of humans. Arrogance will be their downfall.
Nope. Nothing would surprise me about religion. We could be free of a belief system but still feel the negative impacts right? I think people are afraid of old age and dying so they invent many things to soften the blow. I doubt their arrogance will make a bit of difference.

Thanks. Interesting thoughts those.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30421 Mar 21, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>You still have to face God on Judgment Day,
How do you know that?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30422 Mar 21, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Nothing would surprise me about religion. We could be free of a belief system but still feel the negative impacts right? I think people are afraid of old age and dying so they invent many things to soften the blow. I doubt their arrogance will make a bit of difference.
Thanks. Interesting thoughts those.
Since we only can speculate the here-after, it can be thought provoking.

Based upon the NDEs that I've studied and read about, most who state that they have gone through some "life review", seem to always include the "being in the light" usually asks one question in some form of, "What have you done with your life?"

This causes me to think that what I do in my life is what I will have to answer for, "what we reap, we will sow", and thus promotes the being as just a witness and not the judge, because "we are our own judge".

This is another reason why I find the "preachers" of whomever church is in the wrong in two ways. One, they do not preach this, and two, they choose to lean on Jesus, instead of what Jesus instructed, we should understand ourselves first, before we can do anything for others ["remove the timber from your own eye first,...."].

And you are probably right about 'arrogance'- if one is arrogant now, they will supposedly see it in their own 'review'. I could care less, but I do believe if I can help someone overcome that aspect of their life, I think it will help them when and if that moment does arrive.

Thanks for responding.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30423 Mar 21, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know that?
Pay no mind to the clown, he's been making unfounded claims for sometime now (on other forums), and always seems to run away when confronted when asked to provide links of support, or will begin to spout off rude comments and insults to the poster.

As Charlie Sheen would say....."he's not winning".

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30424 Mar 21, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Pay no mind to the clown, he's been making unfounded claims for sometime now (on other forums), and always seems to run away when confronted when asked to provide links of support, or will begin to spout off rude comments and insults to the poster.
As Charlie Sheen would say....."he's not winning".
So it seems.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30425 Mar 21, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Since we only can speculate the here-after, it can be thought provoking.
Based upon the NDEs that I've studied and read about, most who state that they have gone through some "life review", seem to always include the "being in the light" usually asks one question in some form of, "What have you done with your life?"
This causes me to think that what I do in my life is what I will have to answer for, "what we reap, we will sow", and thus promotes the being as just a witness and not the judge, because "we are our own judge".
This is another reason why I find the "preachers" of whomever church is in the wrong in two ways. One, they do not preach this, and two, they choose to lean on Jesus, instead of what Jesus instructed, we should understand ourselves first, before we can do anything for others ["remove the timber from your own eye first,...."].
And you are probably right about 'arrogance'- if one is arrogant now, they will supposedly see it in their own 'review'. I could care less, but I do believe if I can help someone overcome that aspect of their life, I think it will help them when and if that moment does arrive.
Thanks for responding.
Yes you brought up some excellent points. We can only speculate on these things. Either Jesus was telling the truth or he was insane and crazy. I have no idea what the light is all about. I have heard many references to that. Yep, what goes around comes around just like in Matthew 7:1. I always wonder why the Book Believers scratch their heads over this one. I do likewise as you can see I push on these guys endlessly questioning them. I get few answers to my questions. It seems they don't like to think for themselves.

Blessings, peace or good tidings to you....(whichever you prefer)
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30426 Mar 21, 2013
Hi evol:

Those are some good questions,

1- The true believer serves God because God saved him and he is a new creation in Christ Jesus.

2- Jesus loved us even while we were sinners He died for us. These are the people God has saved He came to seek and to save His people from their sins. Who are [His people?] it could be you just as well as anyone we do not know who God will save He says He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.

3- If it was all up to us to be saved then not one would become saved because the word tells us that there is none that will seek Him no not one. Romans 3:10-12.

4- When God does save one by His word and His Spirit the person whom God saves has a want to serve God because God the Holy Spirit dwells in him He is also called [the comforter]

Question, how can anyone call themselves saved? The reason being, our spirit will bear witness with God this is what God's word declares we will have a desire to do His will and when we pray we will pray not my will be done but thy will be done knowing God knows best for us. God also tells us that these things I write unto you that you may know you have etenal life. God tells us ,,,those that abide in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9.

God has given the believer His word and we believe what His word said as it is written:

"THhese things I have written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; ye may KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13

The only reason why the person whom God saves believes on Him is because God has already done the work to believe on Him whom He hath sent, John 6:29.

5- The only ones that can be obediant unto the Lord are those that God has already saved they will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23

6- Yes, we have no control according to God when it comes to salvation here is what He said will we believe it? Jesus said,

"You have not chosen me but I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bear fruit,,," John 16:15.

God tells us it is not of him that wills to be saved but God that showeth mercy so we cannot will our self to become saved.

"For He saith to Moses, I WILL have mercy on whom I WILL have mercy, and I WILL have comassion on whom I WILL have compassion. So it IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." Romans 9:15-16

The true believer will bow down to God's word not in what he believes he thinks should be the salvation program for salvation this is all of God alone and He is telling us how He saves one in His word. We do not trust what we want not my will be done but thy will be done O Lord. God's word is a test to all mankind and not one will seek after God on God's terms unless God is drawing him to seek Him in spirit and in truth. The reason being is, we are all dead in sins and tresspasses, Eph. 2:1. Have you had any say in your first birth? No! We also have no say in the second bith. Thank you for those great questions. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
evoL eeL rehtorB wrote:
<quoted text>Why be obedient, at all?
According to you, we have absolutely no control, whatsoever, of our thoughts, actions, reactions, and speech, nor on the salvation granted us. Therefore, whether we're obedient or not makes no difference, at all. If I'm obedient, "God" will have compassion on me if He chooses to have compassion on me. And if I'm disobedient, "God" will have compassion on me if He chooses to have compassion on me. So, what's the point of it all?
How can anyone call themselves "saved" if we don't even know, for sure, we're saved? How can anyone say that they know for sure that "God" is going to have compassion on them?
Student

Nogales, Mexico

#30427 Mar 22, 2013
God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.—John 3:16.

By accepting God’s love and by exercising faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we can be freed from the condemnation resulting from our inherited sin. We may, therefore, be inclined to exclaim, as did Paul:“Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!”(Rom. 7:25) Though exercising faith in the ransom can free us from the law of sin and of death, we are still imperfect and sinful. More is involved in attaining good spiritual health and enjoying God’s favor and blessing. Yet, how happy we can be that Jehovah has made it possible for us to overcome the law of sin and of death!

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30428 Mar 22, 2013
Before I begin this, let me just say that at this point and after reading all your posts, my frustration levels have peaked. I think it's safe to assume that you're either, not reading my posts fully, not understanding my posts, or just blatantly rejecting every bible-quote and assertions I post. With that being said...
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:

Sure I be more than glad to give you my imput concerning Acts 17:30-31.

First, before I get started remember when I was sharing saying many times we can come to the wrong conclusion by isolating a verse or two but if we do not put all the weight that bears on this subect we can fall into error I know this from experience and I believe we all fall short just because we all only know in part and declare in part.
You say that as if I'm a novice-- not knowing how to compare spiritual with spiritual, nor knowing almost the whole bible by heart.
Gary wrote:
The key word in Acts 17:30-31 is the word [repent] God can call everyone everywhere to repent as we hear John saying Repent ye for the kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus tells us that the kingdom of God is at hand repent ye and believe the gospel.
And the point you're neglecting is that just the term "repent" is an action expected of us. Of a surety, we would not be instructed to fulfill anything that we were incapable of performing on our own.
Gary wrote:
You see God commands the world to repent but who are those that will repent? Here is Jesus prayer to the Father,

"I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD, but for them which THOU HAST GIVEN ME: fot they ARE HINE."

"I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD; and the WORLD hath HATED THEM, because they ARE NOT OF THE WORLD, even so I am not of the WORLD." John 17:9, 14

Lee, we can see very clear here that only those that God has taken them [the elect] out of the world as Jesus is not of the world.
First, the above quotes say nothing as to who will repent. All these say is that our anointed Savior prayed for his apostles and by extension, those that will come to fulfill the same vocation. But, like I've been saying, every person elected are believers, but not every believer is elected.
Gary wrote:
God also tells us that we cannot repent unless God alone gives one the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.
And once again, you're overlooking speaker-audience relevance and the intended meaning.

1) Speaker-audience relevance: "those that oppose themselves"-- Gentiles that haven't yet converted.

2) "if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth"-- "give them repentance" means "grant them repentance." What this is saying is that there's hope that the Gentiles that might repentant will do so accordingly. If their repentance is not genuine and sincere, then their expression of repentance will not be accepted even though repentance, itself, is still granted them.
Gary wrote:
This is why I asked the question, are we born dead in sins or not? Gary
And that's why I composed a whole post of biblical quotes that prove that we become alive by hearing or reading, and learning, the word of "God". Apparently, you rejected every verse and assertion. You must have, because you said not one thing about that post.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30429 Mar 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
As I was saying before the big question we have to ask our self is this, Are we born dead in sins and tresspasses?
Yes. Now, I ask, are we made alive by the word of "God"?
Gary wrote:
When we come to see that this is the case then we have to ask the next question and that is, How can a dead man come alive spiritually? How can a literally dead man come alive? The answer to this is very basic at best and that is, he cannot come alive in his own power why? Because he is dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, Romans 3:10-12.
Does not scriptures say that we're made alive by either, hearing, or reading, the word of "God"? So, then, technically, our coming to life is not "on our own," is it?
Gary wrote:
We sure had no say in our first birth did we? So I how can a dead man have any say in the second birth?
With the functions "God" gave us at creation. Adam died because he made a conscious decision to transgress "God's" commandment, not because "God" made him rebellious.
Gary wrote:
Did anyone before they were born of their parents decide to say, I like these parents I believe I WILL ACCEPT THEM! You see it is the same thing with peeople thinking that they can reach out in their spiritually dead hands and accept Jesus.
And you still haven't provided one verse that proves this, or even equates with your assertion.
Gary wrote:
The fact is, we are so dead in sins we cannot even repent in our power. GOD HAS TO GIVE ONE THE GIFT TO REPENT IF NOT THE WORD IS VERY CLEAR HERE THAT WE WILL BE TAKEN CAPTIVE BY SATAN AT HIS WILL.
I addressed this in my last post. But, as to be taken at Satan's will, Paul was referring to the Gentiles that haven't even heard the gospel yet, nor had the chance to learn of repentance.
Gary wrote:
YOU SEE THIS IS WHAT IS TAKEN PLACE WITH THESE DO IT YOUR SELF SELF HELP GOSPELS THAT IS BUILT ON MAN. lET US HEAR THE END OF THE CONCLUSION OF THE MATTER.
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; If God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Tim. 2:25-26
What does it mean, "recover THEMSELVES"? And for the record, the literal translation from the Greek for "the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him AT his will" is "FOR his will."
Gary wrote:
I understand many do not like this fact because it takes [self] out of the equation does it not?
No, because we understand that after all is said and done, that all things are still in the hands of our 'Elohiym.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30430 Mar 22, 2013
PART II
Gary wrote:
Verses like these are a real threat to the [free willers] and I fully understand really I do I was there done that. However, when we allow God to show us,
1- we are all born dead in sins, Eph. 2:1
And again, we're made alive by His word.
Gary wrote:
2- There is not one that will seek God on His terms no not one, Romans 3:10-12.
Paul was using a psalm as an example. And what was Paul's intended meaning? To find the answer, we need not look any further than David's psalm. In the very first verse, it says, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." Paul's intent was to prove how that none can be accepted without first accepting what was accomplished for us on the cross. Without accepting the son of the most High, we're no better off than fools that reject the mere existence of "God".
Gary wrote:
3- The reason why man cannot seek God on His terms is, he is spiritually a dead corpse and in rebelion to the true gospel, Romans 9:11-24
~sigh~ And the word makes us alive.
Gary wrote:
4- Mankind has no power to be born in his first birth and he has no power to be born again, the reason being is, they are both a work of God.
You, apparently, have no concept of "spiritual attribution" and its reason.
Gary wrote:
5- God has to call us and He has to qualify us to come to him the gospel calls goes out to repent and believe but only those that are chosen will come this is why the word tells us that many are called but few are chosen.
So, you rejected my post about the "called" and the "chosen". So, be it.
Gary wrote:
Mankind hates this gospel that puts God in the driver seat you mean I cannot do nothing just wait and quietly hope for the salvation of the Lord? Lam. 3:26, Yes! This is what God commands us I did not command this God has in His word and the only ones that will bow to this are those that God has called. Thank you for your input. Gary 1 John 3:13-15
Considering that you've chosen only to repeat yourself, showing that you've either, ignored my posts, or rejected them without any explanation as to why, then I have no choice but to discontinue discussing these matters with you. I don't have a problem with your giving "God" all the credit. My issue is when you consider everyone else that doesn't adhere to your interpretations as "unsaved".

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30431 Mar 22, 2013
Student wrote:
God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.—John 3:16.
By accepting God’s love and by exercising faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we can be freed from the condemnation resulting from our inherited sin. We may, therefore, be inclined to exclaim, as did Paul:“Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!”(Rom. 7:25) Though exercising faith in the ransom can free us from the law of sin and of death, we are still imperfect and sinful. More is involved in attaining good spiritual health and enjoying God’s favor and blessing. Yet, how happy we can be that Jehovah has made it possible for us to overcome the law of sin and of death!
A trite cliche.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30432 Mar 22, 2013
First, yes. My profile mic is an actual picture of myself.
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
You said that being born again is God's work BUT UNLESS we accept Jesus as Savior is our responsibilty.
Yes. Being "born again" is identical with receiving the Holy Spirit of power, making it possible to perform miraculous works. Only "God" can impart such power on men. But, we must accept His son before any such blessing takes place.
Gary wrote:
Lee, this is why I was sharing example after example concerning this very important point here.
1- Question, did we have anything to do with being born? How then do we have anyhing to do with being born again you just said this is all the work of God?
Becoming born-again is a work of "God". And selecting who will become born-again is "God'" choice. But, only those that prove themselves first will be considered.
Gary wrote:
2- The question I keep raising up is this, Are we born dead in sin and in trespasses?
And I kept providing verses that prove that His word makes us alive.
Gary wrote:
3- God tells us that both the grace and the faith are a gift of God least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9,
Incorrect. It's grace through faith that saves us. Therefore, grace is the gift mentioned. Unless we put faith in the grace that's been bestowed upon us, we cannot be saved.
Gary wrote:
4- Would not [accepting Jesus when we want] be called boasting
No. It's called fulfilling the work of "God" expected of us.
Gary wrote:
least any man should boast in what WE, I, ME, did?
Here you go again. Repeating yourself without saying a thing about my posts that use both, the possessive pronouns "ye," "your," and "I," and Paul's instruction to follow him.
Gary wrote:
5-How can a spiritualy dead man reach out to God when God tells us that you have NOT CHOSEN me but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU.
1) Because, His word makes us alive.

2) Because, the apostles didn't choose our anointed Savior. He literally selected them as he was beginning his ministry.
Gary wrote:
So, how could we accept Jesus when He told us we cannot in our own will because He said it is NOT of him that willeth but God that shewth mercy.
Paul, at Romans 9, was explaining Israel's history and how it coincides with the overall intent of "God's" plan. Paul made mention of the people that "God" interacted with on a most personal level. Paul's intent was in case people began asking about "God's" motives and questioning His righteousness after reading these accounts.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30433 Mar 22, 2013
PART II
Gary wrote:
6- Would one not be taking Jesus off the throne as Savior and placing self there because either salvation is all of grace or all of works we cannot mix grace and the work which we have done by so called accepting Jesus this would void out grace would it not?
Grace is "God's" mercy bestowed upon us when the law dictates that sinners were to be put to death.
Gary wrote:
Lee, these are just a few points I been trying to share with you and all here that it is God that must do the good work in us, Lee, your half way there you state you believe this is the work of God to be [born again] and that is great but why would you want to spoil it by saying BUT it takes me a spiritually dead man to call out to God?
Because, that's the natural reaction for people that hear what was accomplished for us on the cross.
Gary wrote:
Lee, we are all in the same boat here we are all born dead in sins and a dead man cannot come alive God must quicken him
...with His word.
Gary wrote:
so he will call on the name of the Lord it is first God saving us so we can call on Him it is not one who had no saying in his first birth and also who has no say in being born again to come alive it is all the work of God. You see Lee, maybe you may have missed this very important point and maybe I did not explain myself well on this one point here. Lee, I do believe the believers will call upon the Lord. However, I believe God must have already saved us [born again] that we would truly call on the name of the Lord for the salvation of the Bible not our self help salvation I have been there did that and I can tell you I was not saved I know this because I had my own gospel it was not God's gospel. You see when Jesus saves one then we will repent, we will believe, we will do good works and so on it is not first I have to do these good works then I will be saved, this is called a works grace gospel. God tells us in Eph. 2:8-9 that both the grace and the faith are the gifts of God least any man should boast. Faith was given to the one God saves so he will believe because it was God's work that we would believe on Him, John 6:29, Lee, you see how cohesive and in harmony to the word this is? God gets all the glory in this salvation we do not add to this in any way least any man should boast. Thank you. Gary
Salvation is offered regardless of what anyone does. Whether a person is born or not does nothing for or against salvation. But, whether or not a person enters into the kingdom is based on their works. This is the whole reason for the day of Judgment.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30434 Mar 22, 2013
Gary wrote:
HI Lee:
I just like to add in what you said when you said, It is all the work of God in becoming [born again] I agree with you 100$ here. You see Lee, what your saying in a very real sense here that if you believe it is all the work of God to be [born again] then you are really saying and maybe not knowing this that it is all the work of God in being saved we have nothing to do with this.
Lee, I believe you are on the right track here the only difference is your misunderstanding the power of being [born again] this is when God saves you there is nothing we did as you have stated here it is ALL the work of God in being [born again]
Actually, the difference is that I believe that becoming born-again is bestowed only upon those that have proven themselves worthy of such power.
Gary wrote:
Lee, when God makes us born again then we will call upon Him we will repent,of our sins, we will do good works.
Incorrect. "God" called us by His son. We hear His message through His son. We choose whether we accept the message or not. If we do, we repent after realizing how unrighteous we actually are. We, then, make a valiant effort to eradicate all unrighteous thoughts and feelings, and replacing them with righteous thoughts and feelings. And judging by our progress, "God" might select us to become born-again.
Gary wrote:
Why? BECAUSE GOD MADE THE ONE [BORN AGAIN] LEE, THIS IS THE COMPLETION OF SALVATION ONCE ONE IS BORN AGAIN ALL THE WORK IS DONE AS YOU HAVE STATED THE OTHER THINGS WILL FOLLOW AS THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT THE REASON BEING, GOD HAD DONE ALL THE WORK AS YOU HAVE STATED IN BEING [BORN AGAIN]
LEE, THERE JUST MAYBE A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE WITH THE SEMANTICS.
I don't think we are that far off here Lee, think about this if you believe it is ALL the work of God for anyone to be [born again] then what you really are saying God must do all the work in saving one there is nothing that we can do because it is all His work of God that we are [born again] thus God gets all the glory and that is how it should be.
"God" gets all the glory because it all derives from "God". We wouldn't even know the difference between righteousness and unrighteousness had "God" not explained the difference. So, anyone that works righteousness acknowledges that we only adhere to the righteousness that's already been revealed to us.
Gary wrote:
So when we are [born again] by all the work of God we will bear forth much fruit why? Because He has made us [born again] this is the same meaning as being saved, called ordained, elected, and so on it all has the same meaning because it means a new person in Christ Jesus by all the work of God in becoming [born again]
Incorrect. You've mentioned those that fulfill a specific vocation. All the elect are believers, but not all believers are the elect.
Gary wrote:
Lee, you see what I am saying here? When you claim God must do ALL the work in being [born again] then we will call on Him, serve Him, worship Him in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23, if God has truly made one [born again] this means we are a new creation in Christ Jesus. Lee, would not this be funny here that we really agreed on the same thing but there was just a misunderstanding of when we do the [good works?] We can only do the good work because God first has done the good work in making one [born again] You see how it all fits together here when God does ALL the work in one becoming [born again?] Thank you for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
We perform good works coupled with faith, first. Then, based on our performance, "God" chooses who will fulfill the vocation of the born-again and elect. Paul is the exception, but we have to consider the account. Paul was visited by our anointed Savior, himself, so...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30435 Mar 22, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
Is this another unfounded claim?
Where does "God" specifically state this?
FYI - Since "God" only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source, right?
Remember - please make sure you are quoting the specific text(s) that state the specific process you mentioned above.
My assertions are based on quite a few verses. The following are the ones I can remember at the top of my head and at this time.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1Kings 3:9
Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

Isaiah 7:16
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good...

Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

As I see it, it seems (to me) that "God" is most concerned about having discernment and being capable of making a choice. Then, it's written, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons." Therefore, I can't imagine these verses not applying to all men, especially those that are incapable of discernment.

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#30436 Mar 22, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Before I begin this, let me just say that at this point and after reading all your posts, my frustration levels have peaked. I think it's safe to assume that you're either, not reading my posts fully, not understanding my posts, or just blatantly rejecting every bible-quote and assertions I post. With that being said...<quoted text>You say that as if I'm a novice-- not knowing how to compare spiritual with spiritual, nor knowing almost the whole bible by heart.
<quoted text>And the point you're neglecting is that just the term "repent" is an action expected of us. Of a surety, we would not be instructed to fulfill anything that we were incapable of performing on our own.
<quoted text>First, the above quotes say nothing as to who will repent. All these say is that our anointed Savior prayed for his apostles and by extension, those that will come to fulfill the same vocation. But, like I've been saying, every person elected are believers, but not every believer is elected.
<quoted text>And once again, you're overlooking speaker-audience relevance and the intended meaning.
1) Speaker-audience relevance: "those that oppose themselves"-- Gentiles that haven't yet converted.
2) "if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth"-- "give them repentance" means "grant them repentance." What this is saying is that there's hope that the Gentiles that might repentant will do so accordingly. If their repentance is not genuine and sincere, then their expression of repentance will not be accepted even though repentance, itself, is still granted them.
<quoted text>And that's why I composed a whole post of biblical quotes that prove that we become alive by hearing or reading, and learning, the word of "God". Apparently, you rejected every verse and assertion. You must have, because you said not one thing about that post.
Still at it I see. WOWZA, who is that gorgeous man in your avatar?? Could it be .... surely not. hehe

;*:*;

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30437 Mar 22, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Oh really. Isn't that assuming a great deal? What are you talking about healing anyway?
I'm not assuming anything. Perhaps, you noticed my post about the importance of discernment. And my reason for mentioning "healing" is because our limitations are a product of our own mistakes made. If an adult is incapable of discernment, at all, then they'll be healed of this limitation. Then, they'll be granted entrance into the kingdom.

Why the change of attitude?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 5 min Phooey 679,394
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing 13 min Tm Cln 2,902
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 41 min nanoanomaly 119,381
Satin is my god (Mar '08) 1 hr Riverspirit 2,227
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 1 hr Born Again past JW 46,226
How To UNBRAINWASH A Liberal 1 hr Stiggy 1
Poll Can you be pro-life and pro choice? (Jun '08) 2 hr Slightly Perfect 6,702
More from around the web