“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30393 Mar 19, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
Thank you for sharing those verses, let me add also the Greek literal translation of Green's
"The one acting unjustly, let him act unjustly; and the filthy, let him still be filthy: and the righteous, let him still do righteousness; and the holy, let him still be holy." Rev. 22:11
You're welcome, Gary. However, I don't understand your reason for quoting Revelation 22:11. What's your thoughts on what the prophet John wrote, though?

1John 3:7

Literal Translation--
Little children, no one let lead astray you; he that practices righteousness, righteous is, even as he righteous is.

Greek Transliteration Version--
TEKNIA, MEDEIS PLANATO HYMAS; HO POION TEN DIKAIOSYNEN, DIKAIOS ESTIN, KATHOS EKEINOS DIKAIOS ESTIN.

King James Bible--
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

New International Version--
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

New Living Translation--
Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as CHRIST is righteous.

English Standard Version--
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

New American Standard Bible--
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Holman Christian Standard Bible--
Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.

International Standard Version--
Little children, don't let anyone deceive you. The person who practices righteousness is righteous, just as the MESSIAH is righteous.

NET Bible--
Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as JESUS is righteous.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English--
Children, let no one deceive you; he who does righteousness is righteous even as THE MESSIAH also is righteous.

GOD'S WORD Translation--
Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you. Whoever does what God approves of has God's approval as CHRIST has God's approval.

American Standard Version--
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Douay-Rheims Bible--
Little children, let no man deceive you. He that doth justice is just, even as he is just.

Darby Bible Translation
Children, let no man lead you astray; he that practises righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

English Revised Version--
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Webster's Bible Translation--
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Weymouth New Testament--
Dear children, let no one lead you astray. The man who acts righteously is righteous, just as He is righteous.

World English Bible--
Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Young's Literal Translation--
Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30394 Mar 19, 2013
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:

Yes, there are...those that are left on their own that is it Lee.
I'd be interested in learning your understanding of Acts 17:30-31.

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERY WHERE to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto ALL MEN, in that he hath raised him from the dead."
Gary wrote:
Either we were saved by Christ righteousness not our own as some may believe for God makes this very, very, clear when He tells us it is not by our rightousness which WE have done but by His mercy He has saved us.
I agree. But, can the elect continue in willful sin and still be saved? Book, chapter, and verse, please. And for the record, our anointed Savior saved us from the penalty of death of the Mosaic law. That's the definition of "grace". Until the return of our anointed Savior, though, we still die. It's not until after the second resurrection that death will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
Gary wrote:
Those that believe that they are saved by something that they have done is called [self rightousness] the scribes and Pharisses were very good in this as Jesus went into great detail in Matthew 23 the whole chapter talking about man's righteousness which is as filthy rags verse God's righteousness.
Actually, the "self-righteous" are those that believe they're concept of righteousness derives from self and not from "God". And according to 1John 3:7, anyone that thinks, acts, reacts, and speaks, righteously is righteous. Isaiah was referring, strictly, to Israel. And Matthew 23 is the record of our anointed Savior exposing the scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites, not as self-righteous. There's a difference.
Gary wrote:
When God tells us very clear that He which has begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of the Lord Jesus Christ this is called His [God's] good work
First, Paul was referring to that whole Philippian congregation. Secondly, the "good work" is "God's" grace. "God's" grace will continue until the return of our anointed Savior.
Gary wrote:
if we want to claim part of the work of salvation unto our self then we make void the Spirit of God this is just the flesh and the flesh will always exalt self not Christ
I've already admitted that "God" is in complete control of salvation. Salvation begins with "God". And "God" dictates the stipulations of salvation. But, whether we become saved depends on whether or not we accept "God's" salvation and become what's expected of us-- which is Love.

Romans 11:18-22
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: otherwise THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
Gary wrote:
this is what this [free will] gospel does it takes the Lord off the throne and it put's self there it is a doctrine that really is based on the pride of man as I shared with you the two differnt [I WILL'S] the one is found in Isa. 14, the [I WILL] of Satan, the other is the [I WILL] of God, Romans 9:11-15-16, Ezeak. 36:24-29.
So, you don't agree with all the verses I quoted that used the possessive pronouns "ye," "yours," and "I"? Or, the verses I quoted where Paul instructed believers to follow him?

Is it not giving glory to "God" when we declare that we're righteous only because we adhere to the righteous law of "God"?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30395 Mar 19, 2013
PART II
Gary wrote:
Lee, in man's pride he cannot humble himself to give all the glory to God in His work of salvation alone from beginning to the end this is why He is called the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our salvation, Heb. 12:2. The Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending.
Our anointed Savior is the author and finisher of my faith. But, doesn't this mean that he's the first and last example of faith to follow?
Gary wrote:
For one to say you have to be baptized, accepet,reach out and accept Jesus, go to church, and on and on it goes no body really knows how much many believe in to assist their so called salvation.
Can we call it assistance when we're only following what we learn from the bible to begin with?
Gary wrote:
Now to be born again is not the act of mere sinful man it is an act and work and miricle of God alone we do not enter into this work at all and to add to the finished work of Christ is making void the spirit of grace, Heb. 10:29.
Becoming born-again, no. Becoming born-again is a work that "God" has to perform. But, unless we accept our anointed Savior as our means to "God" is our responsibility.
Gary wrote:
We had no part in our first birth and we sure do not have any part in our second birth
That's according to you, based on secular reasoning. There's no verse you can provide that proves that.
Gary wrote:
those that think they do are really in total denial to think that one had the power to choose the parents when they would be born is just silly the same goes with being [born again] they both are an act and work of God.
Becoming a believer and becoming born-again are two different things.
Gary wrote:
Pride will blind us to the most basic of truth's. However, they are not really basic they are all spiritual this is why only those that are spiritually born again will understand the power of God in the salvation of man it has nothing to do with what man could do if it did then this would mean Jesus died in vain for us if we can merit the work which only God can do. All this is folly and will lead one in danger of their own souls
Unbeknownst to you, you just called me foolish and void of the spirit.
Gary wrote:
this is why God tells us today if you hear His voice harden not your hearts in the day of provacation.
Why would "God" tell anyone not to harden their hearts if He controlled that anyway?
Gary wrote:
This is why this subject is of the utmost importance we have to make sure as the word declares that our calling and election is sure if we do this we will not fall, 2 Peter 1:10. 2 Cor. 13:5.[QUOTE who="Gary"]2Peter 1:10 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." Now, didn't Paul mean that "God" will make us diligent so that we can make our calling and election sure, so that we won't fall?

[QUOTE who="Gary"]I hope all will look these verses up to make sure we are on the same track I pray that we all may grow in the grace and knoweldge of the Lord and that He will have mercy on all who reads His word. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
That's what we're trying to do, Gary.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30396 Mar 19, 2013
PART II
Gary wrote:
Lee, in man's pride he cannot humble himself to give all the glory to God in His work of salvation alone from beginning to the end this is why He is called the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our salvation, Heb. 12:2. The Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending.
Our anointed Savior is the author and finisher of my faith. But, doesn't this mean that he's the first and last example of faith to follow?
Gary wrote:
For one to say you have to be baptized, accepet,reach out and accept Jesus, go to church, and on and on it goes no body really knows how much many believe in to assist their so called salvation.
Can we call it assistance when we're only following what we learn from the bible to begin with?
Gary wrote:
Now to be born again is not the act of mere sinful man it is an act and work and miricle of God alone we do not enter into this work at all and to add to the finished work of Christ is making void the spirit of grace, Heb. 10:29.
Becoming born-again, no. Becoming born-again is a work that "God" has to perform. But, unless we accept our anointed Savior as our means to "God" is our responsibility.
Gary wrote:
We had no part in our first birth and we sure do not have any part in our second birth
That's according to you, based on secular reasoning. There's no verse you can provide that proves that.
Gary wrote:
those that think they do are really in total denial to think that one had the power to choose the parents when they would be born is just silly the same goes with being [born again] they both are an act and work of God.
Becoming a believer and becoming born-again are two different things.
Gary wrote:
Pride will blind us to the most basic of truth's. However, they are not really basic they are all spiritual this is why only those that are spiritually born again will understand the power of God in the salvation of man it has nothing to do with what man could do if it did then this would mean Jesus died in vain for us if we can merit the work which only God can do. All this is folly and will lead one in danger of their own souls
Unbeknownst to you, you just called me foolish and void of the spirit.
Gary wrote:
this is why God tells us today if you hear His voice harden not your hearts in the day of provacation.
Why would "God" tell anyone not to harden their hearts if He controlled that anyway?
Gary wrote:
This is why this subject is of the utmost importance we have to make sure as the word declares that our calling and election is sure if we do this we will not fall, 2 Peter 1:10. 2 Cor. 13:5.
2Peter 1:10 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall." Now, didn't Paul mean that "God" will make us diligent so that "God" can make our calling and election sure, so that we won't fall?
Gary wrote:
I hope all will look these verses up to make sure we are on the same track I pray that we all may grow in the grace and knoweldge of the Lord and that He will have mercy on all who reads His word. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
That's what we're trying to do, Gary.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30399 Mar 19, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>First, no offense taken. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that. And as to your opinion...
The fact is, what I'm trying to show Gary are the differences between his beliefs and that which the bible teaches. As far as Gary is concerned, all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen, to live forever in the coming kingdom. This would mean, then, that those that don't come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen, to be forever destroyed by means of the lake of fire. And as I said before, I can only assume that the foundation of this most erroneous belief derives from a gross misunderstanding of Romans 9 (among others, maybe). What has to be proven is that not all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen. Only the vocation of the elect is. And not every believer will serve in the vocation of the elect. As I said in a previous post; "All the elect are believers, but not all believers are the elect."
The second issue is that Gary believes that we have no control over anything that takes place in our lives, whether thoughts, actions, reactions, or speech. According to Gary, the very act of repentance is not a personal decision made, but a provocation of "God". And such beliefs are founded on the belief that all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen. Conclusively, Gary doesn't believe in free-will. And I believe this is most erroneous. For starters, we're told the importance and gravity of genuineness and sincerity in our walk with our Godhead. The issue arises, then, that if "God" controls even the decision to repent, then this eliminates every notion of genuineness and sincerity, altogether. And as you've, most likely, come to imagine by now, such beliefs cause questions and doubt in regards to compassion, as well.
I understand your point. And I believe it's good that you've brought up the subject of compassion. When it comes to compassion, we can be sure that Gary will rely on and quote a verse from Romans 9 to prove his beliefs accurate. Before I quote the verse, remember that I mentioned Romans 9 in this very post and how I believe that Gary's understanding of Romans 9 is most erroneous. Anyway, Romans 9:15 says, "For [God] saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Isolated, this does seem to coincide with Gary's beliefs. But, when compared to all else written, the intended meaning becomes evident.
For your knowledge, this discussion (between Gary and myself) is an old one. Gary might have changed his beliefs when it comes to trying to find out the actual moment that our anointed Savior is going to return, but I haven't noticed much change in anything else, or any change in his beliefs, at all, other than in the advent-time. But, to his credit, we haven't really discussed much else, so...
I see. I would say first of all that eternal punishment is far too severe. For example, how could even one lifetime of crime be worth and eternity of punishment? I would like to think of God as being just rather than putative. I'm sure these juxtapositions already exist in the Bible so one could use the Bible to justify either position right? God could punish the unbelievers because God is God and can make arbitrary rules. We could also argue that God is of unconditional love and would do no such thing. The question is a perennial question as to the nature of God. Is our God a God of Love or a vengeful God of conditional love?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30400 Mar 20, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
I see. I would say first of all that eternal punishment is far too severe. For example, how could even one lifetime of crime be worth and eternity of punishment? I would like to think of God as being just rather than putative. I'm sure these juxtapositions already exist in the Bible so one could use the Bible to justify either position right? God could punish the unbelievers because God is God and can make arbitrary rules. We could also argue that God is of unconditional love and would do no such thing. The question is a perennial question as to the nature of God. Is our God a God of Love or a vengeful God of conditional love?
Okay. I'm going to try to do this without making a novel out of it.

The wages of sin is death. To think that anyone will live forever (keywords: live forever) in some fiery torment is contradictory. Everlasting life is the gift for the righteous only. There are two deaths, though. The first, all will be resurrected from, to be judged. The second indicates a total annihilation of both, flesh and spirit. There's no resurrection from the second death. The second death might seem cruel, but it's proof of love and compassion toward all that chose to learn and live righteousness. To eradicate murder and fornication, "God" must eradicate those that chose to continue committing such sins. This total annihilation of those that chose to continue in unrighteousness is to protect those that chose to live righteously.

As we peruse the bible, we learn that there are only three characters that will be made to endure punishment either, for ever, or for an extended period of time. And these are Satan, the beast, and the false prophet. But, the unrighteous of men are not among these. Death is death. And according to what's written, there's no conscious state in death.

I believe "unconditional love" is an invention of men, based on just wishful thinking if nothing else. Perhaps, it's a concept of the presumptuous sinner. As we read the history within the texts, though, we read of many conditions. Deuteronomy 28 is a prime example of such conditions. One such condition is as follows...

Romans 11:18-22
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but TOWARD THEE, GOODNESS, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.

Many chose to ignore the fact that stipulations and conditions exist throughout the bible. But, if it's anything we should pay close attention to, it's the following. One; the above reveals to us a most obvious stipulation and condition. And two; contradictory to what some might believe, we're going to be held solely responsible for the choices we make in this life and no one else. Not "God". Not Satan. And not those we allowed to lead us. WE'RE warned not to boast against the branches! WE'RE warned not to be highminded, but to fear! WE'RE told to behold the goodness and severity of "God"! WE'RE told that we'll be blessed with goodness IF we continue in His goodness! And that's the facts, Jack!

I'll provide verses if you need them, to prove my assertions. But, until next time...
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30401 Mar 20, 2013
Hi Lee:

Sure I be more than glad to give you my imput concerning Acts 17:30-31.

First, before I get started remember when I was sharing saying many times we can come to the wrong conclusion by isolating a verse or two but if we do not put all the weight that bears on this subect we can fall into error I know this from experience and I believe we all fall short just because we all only know in part and declare in part.

The key word in Acts 17:30-31 is the word [repent] God can call everyone everywhere to repent as we hear John saying Repent ye for the kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus tells us that the kingdom of God is at hand repent ye and believe the gospel.

You see God commands the world to repent but who are those that will repent? Here is Jesus prayer to the Father,

"I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD, but for them which THOU HAST GIVEN ME: fot they ARE HINE."

"I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD; and the WORLD hath HATED THEM, because they ARE NOT OF THE WORLD, even so I am not of the WORLD." John 17:9, 14

Lee, we can see very clear here that only those that God has taken them [the elect] out of the world as Jesus is not of the world.

God also tells us that we cannot repent unless God alone gives one the gift to repent, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

This is why I asked the question, are we born dead in sins or not? Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>I'd be interested in learning your understanding of Acts 17:30-31.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERY WHERE to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto ALL MEN, in that he hath raised him from the dead."
<quoted text>I agree. But, can the elect continue in willful sin and still be saved? Book, chapter, and verse, please. And for the record, our anointed Savior saved us from the penalty of death of the Mosaic law. That's the definition of "grace". Until the return of our anointed Savior, though, we still die. It's not until after the second resurrection that death will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
<quoted text>Actually, the "self-righteous" are those that believe they're concept of righteousness derives from self and not from "God". And according to 1John 3:7, anyone that thinks, acts, reacts, and speaks, righteously is righteous. Isaiah was referring, strictly, to Israel. And Matthew 23 is the record of our anointed Savior exposing the scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites, not as self-righteous. There's a difference.
<quoted text>First, Paul was referring to that whole Philippian congregation. Secondly, the "good work" is "God's" grace. "God's" grace will continue until the return of our anointed Savior.
<quoted text>I've already admitted that "God" is in complete control of salvation. Salvation begins with "God". And "God" dictates the stipulations of salvation. But, whether we become saved depends on whether or not we accept "God's" salvation and become what's expected of us-- which is Love.
Romans 11:18-22
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: otherwise THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
<quoted text>So, you don't agree with all the verses I quoted that used the possessive pronouns "ye," "yours," and "I"? Or, the verses I quoted where Paul instructed believers to follow him?
Is it not giving glory to "God" when we declare that we're righteous only because we adhere to the righteous law of "God"?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30402 Mar 20, 2013
Hi Lee:

As I was saying before the big question we have to ask our self is this, Are we born dead in sins and tresspasses?

When we come to see that this is the case then we have to ask the next question and that is, How can a dead man come alive spiritually? How can a literally dead man come alive? The answer to this is very basic at best and that is, he cannot come alive in his own power why? Because he is dead in sins, Eph. 2:1, Romans 3:10-12.

We sure had no say in our first birth did we? So I how can a dead man have any say in the second birth? Did anyone before they were born of their parents decide to say, I like these parents I believe I WILL ACCEPT THEM! You see it is the same thing with peeople thinking that they can reach out in their spiritually dead hands and accept Jesus. The fact is, we are so dead in sins we cannot even repent in our power.

GOD HAS TO GIVE ONE THE GIFT TO REPENT IF NOT THE WORD IS VERY CLEAR HERE THAT WE WILL BE TAKEN CAPTIVE BY SATAN AT HIS WILL. YOU SEE THIS IS WHAT IS TAKEN PLACE WITH THESE DO IT YOUR SELF SELF HELP GOSPELS THAT IS BUILT ON MAN. lET US HEAR THE END OF THE CONCLUSION OF THE MATTER.

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; If God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Tim. 2:25-26

I understand many do not like this fact because it takes [self] out of the equation does it not? Verses like these are a real threat to the [free willers] and I fully understand really I do I was there done that. However, when we allow God to show us,

1- we are all born dead in sins, Eph. 2:1

2- There is not one that will seek God on His terms no not one, Romans 3:10-12.

3- The reason why man cannot seek God on His terms is, he is spiritually a dead corpse and in rebelion to the true gospel, Romans 9:11-24

4- Mankind has no power to be born in his first birth and he has no power to be born again, the reason being is, they are both a work of God.

5- God has to call us and He has to qualify us to come to him the gospel calls goes out to repent and believe but only those that are chosen will come this is why the word tells us that many are called but few are chosen. Mankind hates this gospel that puts God in the driver seat you mean I cannot do nothing just wait and quietly hope for the salvation of the Lord? Lam. 3:26, Yes! This is what God commands us I did not command this God has in His word and the only ones that will bow to this are those that God has called. Thank you for your input. Gary 1 John 3:13-15

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30403 Mar 21, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Okay. I'm going to try to do this without making a novel out of it.
The wages of sin is death. To think that anyone will live forever (keywords: live forever) in some fiery torment is contradictory. Everlasting life is the gift for the righteous only. There are two deaths, though. The first, all will be resurrected from, to be judged. The second indicates a total annihilation of both, flesh and spirit. There's no resurrection from the second death. The second death might seem cruel, but it's proof of love and compassion toward all that chose to learn and live righteousness. To eradicate murder and fornication, "God" must eradicate those that chose to continue committing such sins. This total annihilation of those that chose to continue in unrighteousness is to protect those that chose to live righteously.
As we peruse the bible, we learn that there are only three characters that will be made to endure punishment either, for ever, or for an extended period of time. And these are Satan, the beast, and the false prophet. But, the unrighteous of men are not among these. Death is death. And according to what's written, there's no conscious state in death.
I believe "unconditional love" is an invention of men, based on just wishful thinking if nothing else. Perhaps, it's a concept of the presumptuous sinner. As we read the history within the texts, though, we read of many conditions. Deuteronomy 28 is a prime example of such conditions. One such condition is as follows...
Romans 11:18-22
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but TOWARD THEE, GOODNESS, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
Many chose to ignore the fact that stipulations and conditions exist throughout the bible. But, if it's anything we should pay close attention to, it's the following. One; the above reveals to us a most obvious stipulation and condition. And two; contradictory to what some might believe, we're going to be held solely responsible for the choices we make in this life and no one else. Not "God". Not Satan. And not those we allowed to lead us. WE'RE warned not to boast against the branches! WE'RE warned not to be highminded, but to fear! WE'RE told to behold the goodness and severity of "God"! WE'RE told that we'll be blessed with goodness IF we continue in His goodness! And that's the facts, Jack!
I'll provide verses if you need them, to prove my assertions. But, until next time...
Problem 1: All this requires consciousness. Suppose a person was mentally retarded or suffered a stroke which rendered them incapable of such thoughts or comprehension of such ideas. This is tied to human consciousness. What about spirit assuming that such a dimension exists? Why would a just God destroy the spirit which was trapped in a dysfunctional body? This line of thought doesn't really work does it.

I don't believe the Bible has all the answers. Even less when we pursue such mystical matters from Paul's limited view point.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30404 Mar 21, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Okay. I'm going to try to do this without making a novel out of it.
The wages of sin is death. To think that anyone will live forever (keywords: live forever) in some fiery torment is contradictory. Everlasting life is the gift for the righteous only. There are two deaths, though. The first, all will be resurrected from, to be judged. The second indicates a total annihilation of both, flesh and spirit. There's no resurrection from the second death. The second death might seem cruel, but it's proof of love and compassion toward all that chose to learn and live righteousness. To eradicate murder and fornication, "God" must eradicate those that chose to continue committing such sins. This total annihilation of those that chose to continue in unrighteousness is to protect those that chose to live righteously.
As we peruse the bible, we learn that there are only three characters that will be made to endure punishment either, for ever, or for an extended period of time. And these are Satan, the beast, and the false prophet. But, the unrighteous of men are not among these. Death is death. And according to what's written, there's no conscious state in death.
I believe "unconditional love" is an invention of men, based on just wishful thinking if nothing else. Perhaps, it's a concept of the presumptuous sinner. As we read the history within the texts, though, we read of many conditions. Deuteronomy 28 is a prime example of such conditions. One such condition is as follows...
Romans 11:18-22
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but TOWARD THEE, GOODNESS, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
Many chose to ignore the fact that stipulations and conditions exist throughout the bible. But, if it's anything we should pay close attention to, it's the following. One; the above reveals to us a most obvious stipulation and condition. And two; contradictory to what some might believe, we're going to be held solely responsible for the choices we make in this life and no one else. Not "God". Not Satan. And not those we allowed to lead us. WE'RE warned not to boast against the branches! WE'RE warned not to be highminded, but to fear! WE'RE told to behold the goodness and severity of "God"! WE'RE told that we'll be blessed with goodness IF we continue in His goodness! And that's the facts, Jack!
I'll provide verses if you need them, to prove my assertions. But, until next time...
You are asserting the Bible. There are many other sources and approaches to enlightenment are there not?
Adam

Frankfurt Am Main, Germany

#30405 Mar 21, 2013
Why won´t the protestant church in america tell you that the two moms and two dads family policy is not christ like.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30406 Mar 21, 2013
Hi Lee:

You said that being born again is God's work BUT UNLESS we accept Jesus as Savior is our responsibilty.

Lee, this is why I was sharing example after example concerning this very important point here.

1- Question, did we have anything to do with being born? How then do we have anyhing to do with being born again you just said this is all the work of God?

2- The question I keep raising up is this, Are we born dead in sin and in trespasses?

3- God tells us that both the grace and the faith are a gift of God least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8-9,

4- Would not [accepting Jesus when we want] be called boasting least any man should boast in what WE, I, ME, did?

5-How can a spiritualy dead man reach out to God when God tells us that you have NOT CHOSEN me but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU. So, how could we accept Jesus when He told us we cannot in our own will because He said it is NOT of him that willeth but God that shewth mercy.

6- Would one not be taking Jesus off the throne as Savior and placing self there because either salvation is all of grace or all of works we cannot mix grace and the work which we have done by so called accepting Jesus this would void out grace would it not?

Lee, these are just a few points I been trying to share with you and all here that it is God that must do the good work in us, Lee, your half way there you state you believe this is the work of God to be [born again] and that is great but why would you want to spoil it by saying BUT it takes me a spiritually dead man to call out to God? Lee, we are all in the same boat here we are all born dead in sins and a dead man cannot come alive God must quicken him so he will call on the name of the Lord it is first God saving us so we can call on Him it is not one who had no saying in his first birth and also who has no say in being born again to come alive it is all the work of God. You see Lee, maybe you may have missed this very important point and maybe I did not explain myself well on this one point here. Lee, I do believe the believers will call upon the Lord. However, I believe God must have already saved us [born again] that we would truly call on the name of the Lord for the salvation of the Bible not our self help salvation I have been there did that and I can tell you I was not saved I know this because I had my own gospel it was not God's gospel. You see when Jesus saves one then we will repent, we will believe, we will do good works and so on it is not first I have to do these good works then I will be saved, this is called a works grace gospel. God tells us in Eph. 2:8-9 that both the grace and the faith are the gifts of God least any man should boast. Faith was given to the one God saves so he will believe because it was God's work that we would believe on Him, John 6:29, Lee, you see how cohesive and in harmony to the word this is? God gets all the glory in this salvation we do not add to this in any way least any man should boast. Thank you. Gary

PS Just wondering Lee, is that a picture of you on your post?
Brother Lee Love wrote:
PART II
<quoted text>Our anointed Savior is the author and finisher of my faith. But, doesn't this mean that he's the first and last example of faith to follow?
<quoted text>Can we call it assistance when we're only following what we learn from the bible to begin with?
<quoted text>Becoming born-again, no. Becoming born-again is a work that "God" has to perform. But, unless we accept our anointed Savior as our means to "God" is our responsibility.
<quoted text>That's according to you, based on secular reasoning. There's no verse you can provide that proves that.
<quoted text>Becoming a believer and becoming born-again are two different things.
<quoted text>Unbeknownst to you, you just called me foolish and void of the spirit.
<quoted text>Why would "God" tell anyone not to harden their hearts if He controlled that anyway?
<quoted text>That's what we're trying to do, Gary.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30407 Mar 21, 2013
HI Lee:

I just like to add in what you said when you said, It is all the work of God in becoming [born again] I agree with you 100$ here. You see Lee, what your saying in a very real sense here that if you believe it is all the work of God to be [born again] then you are really saying and maybe not knowing this that it is all the work of God in being saved we have nothing to do with this.

Lee, I believe you are on the right track here the only difference is your misunderstanding the power of being [born again] this is when God saves you there is nothing we did as you have stated here it is ALL the work of God in being [born again]

Lee, when God makes us born again then we will call upon Him we will repent,of our sins, we will do good works. Why? BECAUSE GOD MADE THE ONE [BORN AGAIN] LEE, THIS IS THE COMPLETION OF SALVATION ONCE ONE IS BORN AGAIN ALL THE WORK IS DONE AS YOU HAVE STATED THE OTHER THINGS WILL FOLLOW AS THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT THE REASON BEING, GOD HAD DONE ALL THE WORK AS YOU HAVE STATED IN BEING [BORN AGAIN]

LEE, THERE JUST MAYBE A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE WITH THE SEMANTICS.

I don't think we are that far off here Lee, think about this if you believe it is ALL the work of God for anyone to be [born again] then what you really are saying God must do all the work in saving one there is nothing that we can do because it is all His work of God that we are [born again] thus God gets all the glory and that is how it should be. So when we are [born again] by all the work of God we will bear forth much fruit why? Because He has made us [born again] this is the same meaning as being saved, called ordained, elected, and so on it all has the same meaning because it means a new person in Christ Jesus by all the work of God in becoming [born again]

Lee, you see what I am saying here? When you claim God must do ALL the work in being [born again] then we will call on Him, serve Him, worship Him in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23, if God has truly made one [born again] this means we are a new creation in Christ Jesus. Lee, would not this be funny here that we really agreed on the same thing but there was just a misunderstanding of when we do the [good works?] We can only do the good work because God first has done the good work in making one [born again] You see how it all fits together here when God does ALL the work in one becoming [born again?] Thank you for your input. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30408 Mar 21, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Problem 1: All this requires consciousness. Suppose a person was mentally retarded or suffered a stroke which rendered them incapable of such thoughts or comprehension of such ideas. This is tied to human consciousness. What about spirit assuming that such a dimension exists? Why would a just God destroy the spirit which was trapped in a dysfunctional body? This line of thought doesn't really work does it.
I don't believe the Bible has all the answers. Even less when we pursue such mystical matters from Paul's limited view point.
You'd be surprised what you can learn about religion, when you step outside the comfort zone that has been established.

It is quite an amazing feeling of freedom from having to rely on or hear from those who disregard being honest and would rather lie to themselves and others, on top of thinking they are a special breed of humans. Arrogance will be their downfall.
evoL eeL rehtorB

Statesville, NC

#30409 Mar 21, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Problem 1: All this requires consciousness. Suppose a person was mentally retarded or suffered a stroke which rendered them incapable of such thoughts or comprehension of such ideas. This is tied to human consciousness. What about spirit assuming that such a dimension exists? Why would a just God destroy the spirit which was trapped in a dysfunctional body? This line of thought doesn't really work does it.
I don't believe the Bible has all the answers. Even less when we pursue such mystical matters from Paul's limited view point.
Actually, there are exceptions with the people you mentioned being among them. People that can't understand and/or make such a decision are exempt from judgment. Instead, they'll be healed, if need be, and allowed entrance into the kingdom.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30411 Mar 21, 2013
evoL eeL rehtorB wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, there are exceptions with the people you mentioned being among them. People that can't understand and/or make such a decision are exempt from judgment. Instead, they'll be healed, if need be, and allowed entrance into the kingdom.
Is this another unfounded claim?

Where does "God" specifically state this?

FYI - Since "God" only spoke to certain individuals in the OT texts, I will presume that will be your source, right?

Remember - please make sure you are quoting the specific text(s) that state the specific process you mentioned above.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30412 Mar 21, 2013
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not able to heal yourselves,or spoke for yourselves
Also never open your mouth as Gods Spokesman whose active force is Universe infinty forces of global healing,not narrow penauts mind like yours,trying to tell everyone who and why God heal or not heal
entrance to Kingdom is dependent only from Grace and Gods His own choice Eph 1;2-12
NOT ACCORDING TO BE HEALED AND HAVE PERMIT TO ENTRY KINGDOM OF GOD
you even have not any clue WHAT THIS KINGDOM OF GOD IS????
Newsflash Shrink - humans have the ability to heal theirselves.

Why do you deny facts? Does it make your "God" look better?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#30413 Mar 21, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Newsflash Shrink - humans have the ability to heal theirselves.
Why do you deny facts? Does it make your "God" look better?
You still have to face God on Judgment Day,

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#30414 Mar 21, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>You still have to face God on Judgment Day,
Stalking me clown?

No there isn't. I just posted this to you in the WINLAC forum.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/researc...

The Being of Light in the Life Review

During the life review, while in the presence of the Being of Light, it is impossible to lie to yourself or to others or to the Light. In the Light, there is no place for secrets to hide. But it is not God who judges us after we die. In the presence of the Being of Light, some people may judge or condemn or punish themselves. There is no judgment except the judgment we might level at ourselves and even this we shouldn't do. God's standard is pure love and our lives will be compared to this standard in the light of God. Pure love is serving God and others without having self-centered motives for doing so. The life review is the perfect experience for the Being of Light to reveal to people how they have measured up to this standard and their mission in life. The following is a list of characteristics of the Being of Light during life reviews. Sometimes the Being of Light is accompanied with other light beings and for this reason the so-called "Being of Light" will be referred to as "they".

Fail.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30415 Mar 21, 2013
Hi Waste:

The Bible does have an answer to your question concerning this question. The problem is, many times sad to say many have already made up their minds that the Bible does not have an answer to these really basic questions concerning what about the mentally hanicaped or a person with a stroke?

God saves the same way and it does not matter if one has some major diabilty of any kind, a person can be of a fractured mind that cannot think and God still saves the same way and that is, by His word when applied by the Spirit of God. If the person is under the hearing of the word of God then God can apply His word at any time He wants to save him because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The miricale of salvation is all of God this is why one must be [born again] by the word and the Spirit John 3:1-6, 1 Peter 1:10, John 34:23, Eph. 5:26.

So you see it is not our own intelect that saves one it is by being under the hearing of the word and God applying His word to the one He has mercy on, salvation is 100% of the work of God to be [born again] to God be all the glory great things He has done if He has saved one. God has to give one saving faith to believe on the Lord and this can only happen if God has already saved one or made him [born again] or [born from above] if this does not happen then that person will never really believe in the power of the word that has brought this world into being by the power of the word. Most will not believe this because they are not saved or [born again] This is why Jesus said, You must be born again. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Problem 1: All this requires consciousness. Suppose a person was mentally retarded or suffered a stroke which rendered them incapable of such thoughts or comprehension of such ideas. This is tied to human consciousness. What about spirit assuming that such a dimension exists? Why would a just God destroy the spirit which was trapped in a dysfunctional body? This line of thought doesn't really work does it.
I don't believe the Bible has all the answers. Even less when we pursue such mystical matters from Paul's limited view point.

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