What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30370 Mar 18, 2013
James 3:11-12
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Matthew 5:22
..whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 7:16-20
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30373 Mar 18, 2013
The Greek term, "AGAPAO," appears in all the following verses. The term "agapao" corresponds as the number 25 in Greek concordances. Because of this, I'll replace the appropriate term with this corresponding number, which is 25, when applicable.

Matthew 5:44 (with corresponding number)
But I say unto you,[25] your enemies...

Another verse that uses the same term that translates to our English "love"...

John 10:34 (with corresponding number)
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye [25] one another; as I have [25] you, that ye also [25] one another.

And yet another verse that uses the same term that translates to our English "love...

Matthew 22:37 (with corresponding number)
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt [25] the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

And then, another...

Ephesians 5:25 (with corresponding number)
Husbands,[25] your wives, even as Christ also [25] the church, and gave himself for it.

Did I mention loving our wives?

Ephesians 5:28 (with corresponding)
So ought men to [25] their wives as their own bodies. He that [25] his wife [25] himself.

And again...

Ephesians 5:33 (with corresponding number)
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so [25] his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

And again...

Colossians 3:19
Husbands,[25] your wives, and be not bitter against them.

In conclusion, we're expected to "AGAPAO" our enemies just like we're expected to "AGAPAO" "the Lord [our] God with all [our] heart, and with all [our] soul, and with all [our] mind," "one another," and even our wives.

And let's not forget... the English term "love" and the Greek term "AGAPAO" are represented, above, by the number 25.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30375 Mar 18, 2013
Hi Lee:

You quoted Heb. 6:4-6 where does it state that these were believers? They have tasted the word they were enlightened because of the word by the Holy Spirit but they fell away why? BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER SAVED!

Question do you believe a person can lose his salvation and become saved again? Many [free willers do] but this verse states it is impossible to renew them to repentance. The word tells us that many will hear the word and try to obey the word in the power of the flesh. You see when we just issolate a verse here or there and not allow the whole Bible to bear weight on this conclusion you can be in error listen to the rest of the conclusion of this matter.

"For if after they escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again ebtangled therin, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is written unto them according to the true proverb, the DOG IS TURNNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; AND THE SOW THAT WAS WASHED TO HER WALLOWING IN THE MIRE." 2 Peter 2:20-22

Lee, where is it in the Bible that beievers are ever called [dogs] or [swine?] these are all pictures of the unsaved not believers they never became believers sure they became religious as many do but still lost as the scribes and the Pharisses they had their own self righteousness but they will hear, Lord, Lord, have WE NOT DONE THIS AND THAT??

Your right we are called SHEEP for the slaughter the believer is not called [dogs] or [swine] for the slaughter are we? No! This is only for the unsaved being called dogs or swine. Many people get religion and they have a do it your self have it your wway gospel they think that they have the power to become born again did they also have the power to be born the first time? No! They are both a work and miricle of God not of man least he should boast. Thank you. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
@Gary
In regards to your assertions-- that "God" is in complete control of salvation-- I agree 100%. To believe otherwise is to blatantly contradict the following quoted.
Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible for those who were
1) once enlightened, and
2)have tasted of the heavenly gift, and
3) were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And
4) have tasted the good word of God, and
5) the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
As we can see from both accounts, a conscious decision was made on the part of the individual. In Hebrews 6, the focus is on the person that, on their own accord, falls away. In Hebrews 10, the focus is on the person that sins willfully.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30376 Mar 18, 2013
Hi Lee:

I would just like to add to ths concerning, ;their latter end shall be worse than the beginning,,"

Do you know why this is Lee? The reason why those that knew the masters will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes but those that knew not the masters will will be beaten with few stripes. Lee, there is a degree of judgment for those who knew much truth of the Bible as one shares truth with another we are held accounable for this because we have heard the word. Now the word tells us about these unsaved religious people as we read the whole chapter of Matthew 23 this is all WOW'S this is judgment for the blind leaders of the blind who share the wrong salvation. God tells us that they will receive greater damnation this means amany more stripes for those. This is why it is very, very, important that one shares the true nature of salvation because they will be held accounable for teaching a false foundation as these scribes have done. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
You quoted Heb. 6:4-6 where does it state that these were believers? They have tasted the word they were enlightened because of the word by the Holy Spirit but they fell away why? BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER SAVED!
Question do you believe a person can lose his salvation and become saved again? Many [free willers do] but this verse states it is impossible to renew them to repentance. The word tells us that many will hear the word and try to obey the word in the power of the flesh. You see when we just issolate a verse here or there and not allow the whole Bible to bear weight on this conclusion you can be in error listen to the rest of the conclusion of this matter.
"For if after they escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again ebtangled therin, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is written unto them according to the true proverb, the DOG IS TURNNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; AND THE SOW THAT WAS WASHED TO HER WALLOWING IN THE MIRE." 2 Peter 2:20-22
Lee, where is it in the Bible that beievers are ever called [dogs] or [swine?] these are all pictures of the unsaved not believers they never became believers sure they became religious as many do but still lost as the scribes and the Pharisses they had their own self righteousness but they will hear, Lord, Lord, have WE NOT DONE THIS AND THAT??
Your right we are called SHEEP for the slaughter the believer is not called [dogs] or [swine] for the slaughter are we? No! This is only for the unsaved being called dogs or swine. Many people get religion and they have a do it your self have it your wway gospel they think that they have the power to become born again did they also have the power to be born the first time? No! They are both a work and miricle of God not of man least he should boast. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30377 Mar 18, 2013
Hi LEE:

DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE OF YOUR GOOD QUESTIONS? I ENJOY ANSWERING THOSE VERY GOOD QUESTIONS YOU SHARE CONCERNING THE TRUE NATURE OF THE SALVATION WORK OF GOD. WHEN WE READ THAT IT IS HE [GOD THAT DOES THE GOOD WORK IN US, WHAT WORK? THE WORK OF SALVATION AND THE VERSE GOES ON AND SAYS, HE THAT DOES THE GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTO THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST..

Sorry for the [caps] did not look up, lol.

However, we can see that God must do the good work in one that is salvation if He does not then we are left to our own good works and they are like filthy rags the Bible declares they are good for nothing if it is done in the power of the flesh as the scribes and pharisses has done many today have the same do it your self gospel as the scribes of old had sad to say. This is why it is so important to get it right and to make our calling and election sure, 2 Petewr 1:10. Again, thank you. Gary

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30378 Mar 18, 2013
Hello walls. I think I'll just talk to my walls.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30379 Mar 19, 2013
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
__________

James 3:11-12
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Proverbs 10:11
The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Matthew 5:22
..whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 7:16-20
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
__________

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30380 Mar 19, 2013
@Gary

Hebrews 6:1-8
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This portion of Hebrews 6 is in regards to those that were blessed with the Holy Spirit. That's why it becomes impossible for them to repent. These fell away while blessed with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It's a must we keep in mind that these were...

1)once enlightened, they

2) tasted of the heavenly gift, they were

3) made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
they

4) tasted the good word of God, and

5) the powers of the world to come.

And to acknowledge that these were "once enlightened," we must come to understand what it was they were "once enlightened" to. These were "once enlightened" to...

1) the foundation of repentance from dead works,

2) faith toward God,

3) the doctrine of baptisms,

4) the laying on of hands,

5) the resurrection of the dead, and

6) eternal judgment.

None should have the audacity to even think that these were not believers and/or saved. Would the most High bless anyone with the Holy Spirit that wasn't worthy to partake of the Holy Spirit? But, this is why it says that it's impossible, if they shall fall away, to renew them AGAIN unto repentance. This proves that at one point in time, they repented. And they had to have become a believer in order for them to "fall away," or what was it they fell away from?

Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This portion of Hebrews 10 is in regards to the average believer and not those that were blessed with the Holy Spirit. These "received the knowledge of the truth." The warning, though, is about the danger of returning to willful sin. The penalty is worse for those that sin willfully under the blood-covenant of our anointed Savior than for those that sinned willfully under the blood-covenant given to Moses. The difference is, though, that these can be renewed unto repentance. Nothing says it's impossible to renew these unto repentance. And the reason is because these weren't blessed with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And that's the difference between those of Hebrews 6 and those of Hebrews 10. What we must remember, too, is that this letter was written to believers and not just to the average passer-by. The author was, surely, covering all bases for all believers.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30381 Mar 19, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Hello walls. I think I'll just talk to my walls.
Don't feel left out, or ignored. You know... you can actually help us out by becoming involved in the discussion between Gary and myself. It would be most profitable to have an unbiased opinion present. If you don't mind, that is.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30382 Mar 19, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Don't feel left out, or ignored. You know... you can actually help us out by becoming involved in the discussion between Gary and myself. It would be most profitable to have an unbiased opinion present. If you don't mind, that is.
I was trying to move a little into the compassion parts since over 90% of what the Gospels say addresses sins against compassion. One of my observations about this dialogue so far seems that both of you are trying to impress one another with your ability to use the Bible to prove that the Bible is the Word of God and that you are privy to the hidden message.(All due respects, no offense meant.) It seems the actual underling message of compassion gets lost when this happens.

Yes I would love to hear thoughts on this matter.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30383 Mar 19, 2013
@Gary

Going over our posts, I noticed that you had said, "You see when we just issolate a verse here or there and not allow the whole Bible to bear weight on this conclusion you can be in error listen to the rest of the conclusion of this matter."

With all due respect, Gary, but this is erroneous, because it seems as if you're trying to say that your following quote is directly linked to either, Hebrews 6, or Hebrews 10, when in fact, it's not. Your quote was 2Peter 2:20-22, which you did include at the end of the quote. This says...

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

Now, of course, similarities exist, as Peter, too, was referring to those that had once believed, but then, fell away. What we must not overlook, or ignore, is the fact that even these, at one point in time, "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Now, if we liken these "pollutions of the world" to be trespasses and sins that causes us to be spiritually dead, then we can most easily conclude that these escaped death. These, "through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour," were made alive! These, though, became "AGAIN entangled therein, and "overcome." These turned "from the holy commandment delivered unto them." Common sense dictates to us that none can become "AGAIN entangled therein" in "the pollutions of the world" without first escaping "the pollutions of the world," just as it's written. Nor, can any turn "from the holy commandment delivered unto them" without first turning to the holy commandment.

Your issue is that Peter referred to Proverbs 26:11 which uses the term "dog" while including the term "sow." And you feel that believers are never, or should never be, associated with such beasts. And you might be right, but these are only examples, Gary, just like when believers are called "sheep." These examples are to propose an association with a preferred attitude and personality. Sheep, accordingly, are faithful followers of their shepherd and none else. These in Peter's example that became "AGAIN entangled therein, and overcome" and turned "from the holy commandment delivered unto them" showed themselves to be more like dogs and sows than sheep. But, what of these examples, though? Did not our anointed Savior use such examples when he said, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves"? Now, when he said to be "wise as serpents," was he telling us to be wise like Satan? Is not Satan called the "old serpent" (Rev 12:9, 20:2)? Did he not call the scribes and Pharisees "serpents" (Matt 23:33)? So, if we were to disassociate ourselves with every beast used as a negative example, wouldn't it make sense to say that our anointed Savior would have avoided the serpent as an example, too? Consider the following, please and if you will.

When the Canaanite woman requested that our anointed Savior heal her daughter, he said, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs (Matt 15:26)." She replied, "Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table (Matt 15:27)." What happened next, Gary? Our anointed Savior, first, said, "O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt (Matt 15:28a). And then, "her daughter was made whole from that very hour (Matthew 15:28b)."

Now, yes. He called her a "dog." And she complied. But, in the end, her request was granted her.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#30384 Mar 19, 2013
Brother Lee Love wrote:
@Gary
Going over our posts, I noticed that you had said, "You see when we just issolate a verse here or there and not allow the whole Bible to bear weight on this conclusion you can be in error listen to the rest of the conclusion of this matter."
With all due respect, Gary, but this is erroneous, because it seems a....e again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
Now, of course, similarities exist, as Peter, too, was referring to those that had once believed, but then, fell away. What we must not overlook, or ignore, is the fact that even these, at one point in time, "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Now, if we liken these "pollutions of the world" to be trespasses and sins that causes us to be spiritually dead, then we can most easily conclude that these escaped death. These, "through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour," were made alive! These, though, became "AGAIN entangled therein, and "overcome." These turned "from the holy commandment delivered unto them." Common sense dictates to us that none can become "AGAIN entangled therein" in "the pollutions of the world" without first escaping "the pollutions of the world," just as it's written. Nor, can any turn "from the holy commandment delivered unto them" without first turning to the holy commandment.
Your issue is that Peter referred to Proverbs 26:11 which uses the term "dog" while including the term "sow." And you feel that believers are never, or should never be, associated with such beasts. And you might be right, but these are only examples, Gary, just like when believers are called "sheep." These examples are to propose an association with a preferred attitude and personality. Sheep, accordingly, are faithful followers of their shepherd and none else. These in Peter's example that became "AGAIN entangled therein, and overcome" and turned "from the holy commandment delivered unto them" showed themselves to be more like dogs and sows than sheep. But, what of these examples, though? Did not our anointed Savior use such examples when he said, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves"? Now, when he said to be "wise as serpents," was he telling us to be wise like Satan? Is not Satan called the "old serpent" (Rev 12:9, 20:2)? Did he not call the scribes and Pharisees "serpents" (Matt 23:33)? So, if we were to disassociate ourselves with every beast used as a negative example, wouldn't it make sense to say that our anointed Savior would have avoided the serpent as an example, too? Consider the following, please and if you will.
When the Canaanite woman requested that our anointed Savior heal her daughter, he said, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs (Matt 15:26)." She replied, "Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table (Matt 15:27)." What happened next, Gary? Our anointed Savior, first, said, "O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt (Matt 15:28a). And then, "her daughter was made whole from that very hour (Matthew 15:28b)."
Now, yes. He called her a "dog." And she complied. But, in the end, her request was granted her.
An act of compassion correct?

Thank you.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30385 Mar 19, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
I was trying to move a little into the compassion parts since over 90% of what the Gospels say addresses sins against compassion. One of my observations about this dialogue so far seems that both of you are trying to impress one another with your ability to use the Bible to prove that the Bible is the Word of God and that you are privy to the hidden message.(All due respects, no offense meant.) It seems the actual underling message of compassion gets lost when this happens.
Yes I would love to hear thoughts on this matter.
First, no offense taken. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that. And as to your opinion...

The fact is, what I'm trying to show Gary are the differences between his beliefs and that which the bible teaches. As far as Gary is concerned, all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen, to live forever in the coming kingdom. This would mean, then, that those that don't come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen, to be forever destroyed by means of the lake of fire. And as I said before, I can only assume that the foundation of this most erroneous belief derives from a gross misunderstanding of Romans 9 (among others, maybe). What has to be proven is that not all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen. Only the vocation of the elect is. And not every believer will serve in the vocation of the elect. As I said in a previous post; "All the elect are believers, but not all believers are the elect."

The second issue is that Gary believes that we have no control over anything that takes place in our lives, whether thoughts, actions, reactions, or speech. According to Gary, the very act of repentance is not a personal decision made, but a provocation of "God". And such beliefs are founded on the belief that all that come to believe in our Godhead, so forth and so on, are predetermined, predestined, and chosen. Conclusively, Gary doesn't believe in free-will. And I believe this is most erroneous. For starters, we're told the importance and gravity of genuineness and sincerity in our walk with our Godhead. The issue arises, then, that if "God" controls even the decision to repent, then this eliminates every notion of genuineness and sincerity, altogether. And as you've, most likely, come to imagine by now, such beliefs cause questions and doubt in regards to compassion, as well.

I understand your point. And I believe it's good that you've brought up the subject of compassion. When it comes to compassion, we can be sure that Gary will rely on and quote a verse from Romans 9 to prove his beliefs accurate. Before I quote the verse, remember that I mentioned Romans 9 in this very post and how I believe that Gary's understanding of Romans 9 is most erroneous. Anyway, Romans 9:15 says, "For [God] saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Isolated, this does seem to coincide with Gary's beliefs. But, when compared to all else written, the intended meaning becomes evident.

For your knowledge, this discussion (between Gary and myself) is an old one. Gary might have changed his beliefs when it comes to trying to find out the actual moment that our anointed Savior is going to return, but I haven't noticed much change in anything else, or any change in his beliefs, at all, other than in the advent-time. But, to his credit, we haven't really discussed much else, so...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30386 Mar 19, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
An act of compassion correct?
Thank you.
Very correct. You're welcome and thank you!

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30387 Mar 19, 2013
@Gary

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

I see this verse quoted often and misinterpreted just as often. And that troubles me. Before I begin, though, allow me to share the following. And with all the reasoning you can muster, try to understand-- not only the point I'm making-- but the point Isaiah was making, too, and how what Haggai wrote coincides.

Haggai 2:11-14
Thus saith Yahoweh of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,
If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No.
Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith Yahoweh; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.

At this point in time, the southern kingdom was captive in Babylon. And at this point in time, many of Israel were, rather than repenting and returning to Father, accepting Babylonian culture and their many forms of worship to their many gods. And this further displeased not only Father, but the prophets, too. The reason Israel was in Babylon, to begin with, was because of their sins, as it was! And this is why Isaiah wrote what he did against the captured nation. But, what was Isaiah's point?

Proverb 21:27 says, "The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?" This coincides with what the prophet Haggai wrote. Again, he wrote, "Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean. Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith Yahoweh; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean."

To the most High, there are two types of sinner. One is the sinner that's considered worthy of forgiveness, for they sin "through ignorance," as it's written. The other is the sinner that sins presumptuously. So, considering what I've already shared, how that Israel further angered "God" by accepting Babylonian customs and the worshiping of their gods, this is why the righteousness of Israel was as filthy rags. Whatsoever they did that could be considered righteous was, for the most part, to honor whatever false-god they worshiped. And as they continued in their unrighteousness, their prayers became abominable, too. As it's written, "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Yahoweh (Pro 15:8)." In concordance, we're instructed to "offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."

In conclusion, Isaiah was referring to the present condition of the nation of Israel at that time and not every believer, especially those of us during these present times. If he was, then the prophet John would have contradicted Isaiah, perhaps blatantly even. John wrote, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (1John 3:7)."

Take note that John wrote, "even as he is righteous." The "he" in this verse is our anointed Savior, himself. Surely, John wasn't saying that our "filthy-rags righteousness" is like our anointed Savior's "filthy-rags righteousness."

Again, John wrote, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (1John 3:7)."
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30388 Mar 19, 2013
Hi Lee:

Yes, two classes of sinners I will explain in more detail in next post no room sorry. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
@Gary
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
I see this verse quoted often and misinterpreted just as often. And that troubles me. Before I begin, though, allow me to share the following. And with all the reasoning you can muster, try to understand-- not only the point I'm making-- but the point Isaiah was making, too, and how what Haggai wrote coincides.
Haggai 2:11-14
Thus saith Yahoweh of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,
If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No.
Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith Yahoweh; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.
At this point in time, the southern kingdom was captive in Babylon. And at this point in time, many of Israel were, rather than repenting and returning to Father, accepting Babylonian culture and their many forms of worship to their many gods. And this further displeased not only Father, but the prophets, too. The reason Israel was in Babylon, to begin with, was because of their sins, as it was! And this is why Isaiah wrote what he did against the captured nation. But, what was Isaiah's point?
Proverb 21:27 says, "The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?" This coincides with what the prophet Haggai wrote. Again, he wrote, "Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean. Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith Yahoweh; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean."
To the most High, there are two types of sinner. One is the sinner that's considered worthy of forgiveness, for they sin "through ignorance," as it's written. The other is the sinner that sins presumptuously. So, considering what I've already shared, how that Israel further angered "God" by accepting Babylonian customs and the worshiping of their gods, this is why the righteousness of Israel was as filthy rags. Whatsoever they did that could be considered righteous was, for the most part, to honor whatever false-god they worshiped. And as they continued in their unrighteousness, their prayers became abominable, too. As it's written, "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Yahoweh (Pro 15:8)." In concordance, we're instructed to "offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."
In conclusion, Isaiah was referring to the present condition of the nation of Israel at that time and not every believer, especially those of us during these present times. If he was, then the prophet John would have contradicted Isaiah, perhaps blatantly even. John wrote, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (1John 3:7)."
Take note that John wrote, "even as he is righteous." The "he" in this verse is our anointed Savior, himself. Surely, John wasn't saying that our "filthy-rags righteousness" is like our anointed Savior's "filthy-rags righteousness."
Again, John wrote, "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (1John 3:7)."

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30389 Mar 19, 2013
1John 3:7

King James Bible--
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

New International Version--
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

New Living Translation--
Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.

English Standard Version--
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

New American Standard Bible--
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Holman Christian Standard Bible--
Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.

International Standard Version--
Little children, don't let anyone deceive you. The person who practices righteousness is righteous, just as the Messiah is righteous.

NET Bible--
Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English--
Children, let no one deceive you; he who does righteousness is righteous even as The Messiah also is righteous.

GOD'S WORD Translation--
Dear children, don't let anyone deceive you. Whoever does what God approves of has God's approval as Christ has God's approval.

American Standard Version--
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Douay-Rheims Bible--
Little children, let no man deceive you. He that doth justice is just, even as he is just.

Darby Bible Translation
Children, let no man lead you astray; he that practises righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#30390 Mar 19, 2013
English Revised Version--
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Webster's Bible Translation--
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Weymouth New Testament--
Dear children, let no one lead you astray. The man who acts righteously is righteous, just as He is righteous.

World English Bible--
Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Young's Literal Translation--
Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30391 Mar 19, 2013
Hi Lee:

Yes, there are only two classes of siners and that is one that is saved by the grace, mercy, and love of God, Eph. 2:8-9, and those that are left on their own that is it Lee.

Either we were saved by Christ righteousness not our own as some may believe for God makes this very, very, clear when He tells us it is not by our rightousness which WE have done but by His mercy He has saved us.

Those that believe that they are saved by something that they have done is called [self rightousness] the scribes and Pharisses were very good in this as Jesus went into great detail in Matthew 23 the whole chapter talking about man's righteousness which is as filthy rags verse God's righteousness.

When God tells us very clear that He which has begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of the Lord Jesus Christ this is called His [God's] good work if we want to claim part of the work of salvation unto our self then we make void the Spirit of God this is just the flesh and the flesh will always exalt self not Christ this is what this [free will] gospel does it takes the Lord off the throne and it put's self there it is a doctrine that really is based on the pride of man as I shared with you the two differnt [I WILL'S] the one is found in Isa. 14, the [I WILL] of Satan, the other is the [I WILL] of God, Romans 9:11-15-16, Ezeak. 36:24-29.

Lee, in man's pride he cannot humble himself to give all the glory to God in His work of salvation alone from beginning to the end this is why He is called the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our salvation, Heb. 12:2. The Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending. For one to say you have to be baptized, accepet,reach out and accept Jesus, go to church, and on and on it goes no body really knows how much many believe in to assist their so called salvation.

Now to be born again is not the act of mere sinful man it is an act and work and miricle of God alone we do not enter into this work at all and to add to the finished work of Christ is making void the spirit of grace, Heb. 10:29.

We had no part in our first birth and we sure do not have any part in our second birth those that think they do are really in total denial to think that one had the power to choose the parents when they would be born is just silly the same goes with being [born again] they both are an act and work of God. Pride will blind us to the most basic of truth's. However, they are not really basic they are all spiritual this is why only those that are spiritually born again will understand the power of God in the salvation of man it has nothing to do with what man could do if it did then this would mean Jesus died in vain for us if we can merit the work which only God can do. All this is folly and will lead one in danger of their own souls this is why God tells us today if you hear His voice harden not your hearts in the day of provacation. This is why this subject is of the utmost importance we have to make sure as the word declares that our calling and election is sure if we do this we will not fall, 2 Peter 1:10. 2 Cor. 13:5. I hope all will look these verses up to make sure we are on the same track I pray that we all may grow in the grace and knoweldge of the Lord and that He will have mercy on all who reads His word. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#30392 Mar 19, 2013
Hi Lee:

Thank you for sharing those verses, let me add also the Greek literal translation of Green's

"The one acting unjustly, let him act unjustly; and the filthy, let him still be filthy: and the righteous, let him still do righteousness; and the holy, let him still be holy." Rev. 22:11
Brother Lee Love wrote:
English Revised Version--
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Webster's Bible Translation--
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Weymouth New Testament--
Dear children, let no one lead you astray. The man who acts righteously is righteous, just as He is righteous.
World English Bible--
Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Young's Literal Translation--
Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

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