What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29391 Oct 8, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Student:
I do not disagree with this conclusion, being born again is for a limited group of people the Bible calls them the elect, predestinated, chosen, ordained, saved, redeemed, born again, called.
All these are names are for thosee [limited ones] when Jesus said in John 15:16, He said, You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit,,,"
Now I understand many do not like this idea at all because it leaves self out of the equation and they just cannot have that can they? God has to do all the work in saving one thus He gets all the glory and that is how it should be that is, all glory goes to the work of God in ones salvation John 6:29. Thank you. Gary.
<quoted text>
Hi Gary
You believe that “a person must become born again before he can understand the Bible," right! Then why was the Bible written? A study of God’s Word has always been a prerequisite for those who would gain the favor and approval of the Most High God, Jehovah. Kings, priests, parents, men, women, and children—rich and poor alike—were instructed to take time from the everyday affairs of life to give serious and prayerful consideration to the recorded Word of God.(Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; 17:18-20; 31:9-12; Nehemiah 8:8; Psalm 1:1, 2; 119:7-11, 72, 98-100, 104, 142; Proverbs 3:13-18)

Before Jesus’ ascension to heaven, he made it clear that he wanted a great program of Bible education to continue earth wide.(Acts 1:8) He knew that the Bible was meant to be understood. After explaining that Jehovah had given him all authority in heaven and on earth, he issued the direct command:“Go therefore and make disciples [or, learners] of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”(Matthew 28:19, 20)

Prior to baptism, new disciples had to be taught about Jehovah, his Son, and the operation of the holy spirit. Additionally, they had to be instructed in the law of the Christian system of things.(1 Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 6:2) To achieve this result, deserving ones needed to believe first that the Bible was from Jehovah and second that it was meant to be understood.(Matthew 10:11-13)

What is required on your part to understand the Bible? The Son of God went out of his way to explain the Scriptures. He knew that the Holy Writings are true and that they contain the expressed will of Jehovah.(John 17:17) Regarding his assignment of work, Jesus Christ said:“I was born and came into the world for this one purpose, to speak about the truth. Whoever belongs to the truth listens to me.”(John 18:37, TEV; Luke 4:43)

Did you know that those who are born again are to rule as kings and priest, ruling with Christ?(Rev. 20:6; 5:9, 10) Jesus said that these would be just a “little flock.”(Luke 12:32)

‘If they are kings, there must also be subjects over whom they will rule. Who will these be?... Here are some points that I found to be very interesting when they were drawn to my attention.

(Ps. 37:11, 29
11- But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

29- The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Prov. 2:21, 22
21- For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22- As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.)

Have a great day, Student John 3:16
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29392 Oct 9, 2012
Hi Lee:

I understand. You see, saving faith is one of the fruits of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, it is not of our work lest any man should boast, Faith is a gift of God lest any man should boast, Eph. 2:2-8-9, man just loves to boast. Thank you. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, Gary.
<quoted text>This is your answer to my question, "Are you suggesting that a person must become born again before he can understand the Bible?"
<quoted text>I'm afraid I can't agree with you, Gary. And here's why.
1) The only foundation we're to build on is that of faith, which is in our Godhead.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, circumcision is no longer necessary in order to enter into a covenant with Father. Circumcision, as a signature, has been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, animal sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, are no longer necessary in order to be forgiven of our sins. These sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that we've been granted grace and liberty, allowing us to learn of and become an identical image of the holy, just, good, and spiritual, law without fear of the penalties of death when we miss the mark. The penalties of death have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that we're no longer required to fulfill the precepts of the Sabbaths, as these precepts have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that all the services required of the earthly tabernacle have been fulfilled in him.
In conclusion, faith is the unwavering belief that all the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, have and will come to pass, to bless all nations, and this is our foundation. Our foundation is not the unwavering belief that all must receive the Holy Spirit before they can understand the bible. Consider the following, please and if you will.
Acts 10:44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
To understand my contention, we must now read Acts 10:1-2. This says; "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band. A DEVOUT MAN, and ONE THAT FEARED GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE, which gave alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Acts 10:22 says of this same one; "Cornelius the centurion, A JUST MAN, and ONE THAT FEARETH GOD, and of a good report among all the nation of the Jews."
Judging solely by what we've just read, it's obvious that Cornelius and his house understood the known bible of that era even before Peter arrived to preach the gospel to them. The proof of this is in the order of events we read about in chapter 10 of Acts. Just as obvious is the fact that Cornelius and his house received the Holy Spirit even before they were baptized! We cannot deny these facts, nor should we reject them.
Acts 10:1-2 Cornelius is called "A DEVOUT MAN, and ONE THAT FEARED GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE."
Acts 10:22 Cornelius is called "A JUST MAN, and ONE THAT FEARETH GOD."
Acts 10:44-46 Cornelius and those Gentiles with him receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47-48 Cornelius and those Gentiles with him get baptized.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29393 Oct 9, 2012
Hi Student:

Your question:

[Why was the Bible written?]

We see the Bible is writtten for correction, reproof, and doctrine that the man of God may by furnished unto the work of God read 2 Tim. 3:16.

God tells us that Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them.

You see Student, without the word of God we would not know what truth is we would not even know how it all started and why? God in His mercy gave us His word and had men write it down, Jer. 36:1-4, God made sure His word would be perserved many do not truly believe the word only in lip service they do but God has to give one faith to believe this is why Jesus said.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, This is THE WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE upon Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29

Now unsaved man cannot come to grips with this fact that is, God must do all the work thus He gets all the glory fact is, you cannot understand this verse unless God gives you understanding to recieve this truth. It is the work of God that anyone truly can believe. You see to believe is to have faith they are both of the same coin, if one truly believes then He has faith and all this must come from the work of God lest any man should boast. Now the fact is, most religions today just loves to boast this is just a sad fact because we will never seek the God of the Bible unless the Father draws us this is another fact most cannot come to grips with fact is, it is not of man that will's himself to become saved we see this so clear in, Romans 9:11-24.

Now, no matter what verse I give and share it will not become real unless God makes it real by His word and His Spirit this is why we must be born of the word and the Spirit, John 4:23, because the word says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, Romans 10:17, this hearing is spiritual hearing God must give us spiritual ears to hear, those that have ears to hear will hear what the Spirit saith as, Rev. 2 and 3 declares over and over. Thank you. Gary.
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Gary
You believe that “a person must become born again before he can understand the Bible," right! Then why was the Bible written? A study of God’s Word has always been a prerequisite for those who would gain the favor and approval of the Most High God, Jehovah. Kings, priests, parents, men, women, and children—rich and poor alike—were instructed to take time from the everyday affairs of life to give serious and prayerful consideration to the recorded Word of God.(Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; 17:18-20; 31:9-12; Nehemiah 8:8; Psalm 1:1, 2; 119:7-11, 72, 98-100, 104, 142; Proverbs 3:13-18)
Before Jesus’ ascension to heaven, he made it clear that he wanted a great program of Bible education to continue earth wide.(Acts 1:8) He knew that the Bible was meant to be understood. After explaining that Jehovah had given him all authority in heaven and on earth, he issued the direct command:“Go therefore and make disciples [or, learners] of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”(Matthew 28:19, 20)
Prior to baptism, new disciples had to be taught about Jehovah, his Son, and the operation of the holy spirit. Additionally, they had to be instructed in the law of the Christian system of things.
(Ps. 37:11, 29
11- But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
29- The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.
Prov. 2:21, 22
21- For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22- As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.)
Have a great day, Student John 3:16
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29396 Oct 9, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Student:
Your question:
[Why was the Bible written?]
We see the Bible is writtten for correction, reproof, and doctrine that the man of God may by furnished unto the work of God read 2 Tim. 3:16.
God tells us that Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them.
You see Student, without the word of God we would not know what truth is we would not even know how it all started and why? God in His mercy gave us His word and had men write it down, Jer. 36:1-4, God made sure His word would be perserved many do not truly believe the word only in lip service they do but God has to give one faith to believe this is why Jesus said.
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, This is THE WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE upon Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29
Now unsaved man cannot come to grips with this fact that is, God must do all the work thus He gets all the glory fact is, you cannot understand this verse unless God gives you understanding to recieve this truth. It is the work of God that anyone truly can believe. You see to believe is to have faith they are both of the same coin, if one truly believes then He has faith and all this must come from the work of God lest any man should boast. Now the fact is, most religions today just loves to boast this is just a sad fact because we will never seek the God of the Bible unless the Father draws us this is another fact most cannot come to grips with fact is, it is not of man that will's himself to become saved we see this so clear in, Romans 9:11-24.
Now, no matter what verse I give and share it will not become real unless God makes it real by His word and His Spirit this is why we must be born of the word and the Spirit, John 4:23, because the word says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, Romans 10:17, this hearing is spiritual hearing God must give us spiritual ears to hear, those that have ears to hear will hear what the Spirit saith as, Rev. 2 and 3 declares over and over. Thank you. Gary.
<quoted text>
Hi Gary

According to you, I should NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES. As I am NOT “born again”.
Jehovah God, who sets all the terms for salvation, commands that we accept in faith the word, namely, that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised him up from the dead. This is exactly what Jesus told the Jews in answer to their question:“What shall we do to work the works of God?” Jesus said:“This is the work of God, that you exercise faith in him whom that One sent forth.”(John 6:28, 29)

The inspired Bible writings were in reality expressions of God’s holy spirit. For that reason those inspired writings are “beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”(2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

“True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed,... those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”(John 4:23, 24)

WHAT should elevate true worship far above all other worship? Is it not TRUTH? It should be founded on reality, be in conformity with the actual state of things, rather than being based on the guesswork or imagination of the worshipers. Would not any other form of worship be just a counterfeit, belittling to One known as the “God of truth”?(Ps. 31:5; Ex. 34:6)

Truth is related to knowledge as much as falsehood is to ignorance. Would it be reasonable for the Creator of man’s marvelous mind to allow ‘truth and soundness of mind’ to cease when it comes to worship?(Acts 26:25)

Cont...
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29397 Oct 9, 2012
Rather, those practicing true worship should be able to say to other worshipers as did Jesus:“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know.”(John 4:22)

Of course, finite men cannot know everything about an infinite God, but what they do know should not be in error, or, worse, a lie.“No lie originates with the truth,” says the apostle John.(1 John 2:21) In fact, Jesus went on to say that ‘knowing’ the truth is a must in worship acceptable to God:“True worshipers [“real worshippers,” New English Bible]... must worship with spirit and truth.” First-century Christianity was even called the “way of the truth.” Should not acceptable worship today likewise merit being called “the truth”? Do you think of your worship in that way?(John 4:23, 24; 2 Pet. 2:2; Josh. 24:14)

When Jesus said those words about the importance of truth in worship, he added that “the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.”(NW)“That is the kind of worshipper the Father wants.”(John 4:23, Jerusalem Bible) If the Father “wants” or “is looking for” those desiring to worship ‘with truth,’ then he would reasonably provide the means to know the truth. The way he does so attracts only ‘such kind’ of sincere persons to true worship.

The Bible alone presents the worship of the God Jehovah as the truth. Therefore, those who claim to use the Bible, but who fail to promote the worship of Jehovah have missed its purpose—and the truth.(Jer. 10:10, 23-25)

Have a great evening, Student, John 3:16

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29398 Oct 9, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
I understand.
Good. Then, we're getting somewhere.
Gary wrote:
You see, saving faith is one of the fruits of the Spirit, Gal. 5:22-23, it is not of our work lest any man should boast, Faith is a gift of God lest any man should boast, Eph. 2:2-8-9, man just loves to boast. Thank you. Gary
Context, Gary. Context.

At Galatians 5:22-23, we read what the "fruit of the Spirit" is. But, for far too long, this has been misinterpreted. Allow me to explain, please and if you will.

Many people take for granted our translations and put all their trust in the translator's efforts. What's to acknowledge and accept is that, the original authors were inspired, but not the translators. If the translators were inspired in the same manner as the original authors, such terms as "Easter" would have never made its way into the bible! NOTE: "Easter" is the name of an ancient, pagan goddess. From Astarte, to Ashtoreth, to Ishtar, to Oestre, to Eostre, to Eastre, to Easter. Anyway...the original tongues in which the bible was written contained no uppercase or lowercase letters. The capital and lowercase letters in the translations are according to the beliefs of the eras of the translators. And it's their use (or lack thereof) of the capital that causes this confusion. Case in point...

At Galatians 5:22, we read the term "Spirit," capitalized as I've done here. What is this "Spirit," though? At John 6:63, our anointed Savior taught; "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." NOTE: You'll notice that I didn't capitalize the term "spirit' in this verse, just as it's not capitalized in our English translations. Now, what's the significance, though?

Throughout the Greek "New Testament," the term for "spirit," whether capitalized or not, is "pneuma." And the definition is identical in just about each and every case. So, when we read of the "fruit of the Spirit," we're reading about the fruit of the words that our anointed Savior spake to his apostles, as proven at John 6:63. And what were his "words?" Again, he taught, "It is the spirit that quickeneth." At Psalm 119:93, it says, "I will never forget thy precepts; for with them thou hast quickened me." Then, returning to John 6:63, he further taught, "..the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." At Isaiah 1:10, it says, "Hear the word of YHWH...give ear unto the law of our God." These all coincide, do they not? So, essentially and in conclusion, we receive the fruit of the Spirit by learning and applying the commandments of Father, taught by our anointed Savior. The "fruit of the Spirit," then, is identical in meaning and interpretation with the "results of the words, or commandments, that our anointed Savior spoke to his apostles and, by extension, us. Now, on to Ephesians 2:8-9. And again. Context, Gary. Context.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast."

The "gift of God" Paul was referring to was not faith, but grace. Grace is given us as a gift of "God" and not according to any works we've done. These "works" are sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, for it was by these things that Israel sought grace and salvation from the most High before our anointed Savior died. Faith is necessary, as it's by our unwavering belief that our anointed Savior fulfilled these laws in himself to grant us grace and salvation. Understand?
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29400 Oct 10, 2012
dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
no you don't understand Scripture according to 1 John 2;27-28.and John 14;26
Because Holy Spirit is given by GGOD and through Jesus
only to born again 14400,who are spiritual members of Most Holy Tbernacle,and Hevenly Goverment behind curatin covered MOST HOLLY OF HOLLIE BEFORE GREAT CROWD WORSHIPING GOD IN SPIRIT AND THE TRUTH.
also as not born again,you gain knowledge from those Anoinnted ones,
But Scripture your don't understand at all.
because Scripture as Holly codex of God are written only to 14400.
So throw away your pride, and own glamour
Student,learn to have and to be spiritual humble for real,and serve Jehowa without of pride, and not be better from anyone?
May God bless you sir,
never forget
I found for now only 3 spiritual real posters,BLL,Gary,and yours,
anyway I love singles JW, only I despise leadership who betray those file and ranks, and follow this world money,and own glamour(also are influenced by devil spirit like worldwide christian churches 2 Cor 11;13-15.2 thess 2;2-12
The Scriptures were only written for the 144,000 spiritual Israelites? What about the “GREAT CROWD”?(Rev. 7:9-14)

Are they spiritual Israelites? Clearly they are not, since they are described as coming out of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, after John describes the sealing of the 144,000 members of spiritual Israel. Thus, it is evident that not all Christians today are spiritual Israelites.

That many Christians are not spiritual Israelites should not be a surprise. Jesus himself predicted such a development in his well-known parable of the fine shepherd. In his parable Jesus spoke of a fold, or pen, for a smaller flock, and of a much larger flock, comprised of these and also of his “other sheep.”

It was after discussing at length the sheep that “go in and out” of the fold, that Jesus went on to say:“And I have other sheep‘ which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”(John 10:8, 16) What did Jesus mean by “other sheep, which are not of this fold”?

Jesus was describing a large flock, some members of which lived in the “sheepfold” and some members of which did not. All the sheep belonged to the same enlarged flock, but not all of them lived in the fold. The flock could be quite large—indefinite as to size—but only a limited number of sheep could fit inside the fold, which was typically a stone pen with walls of definite length and height.(John 10:1-9)

Cont...
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29401 Oct 10, 2012
Since we have never been taught personally by Jesus Christ, our situation differs from that of the apostles. However, all the vital teachings of the Son of God are preserved for us in the Bible.

So, whenever necessary, the holy spirit can recall to our minds points from the inspired Scriptures and help us in discerning their correct application. Since God’s spirit functions as a remembrancer and a teacher, we must cooperate with it by a careful consideration of the Bible.

If our deposit of Scriptural knowledge is very limited, we cannot possibly get the full benefit from the spirit’s operating in our behalf as a remembrancer and a teacher.

Then, too, the spirit is holy and, therefore, aids only those who are holy or clean from Jehovah’s standpoint. That is why it is not enough merely to read the Bible or to have it read to us. There also needs to be a heartfelt desire to put away all traits that conflict with God’s standard of cleanness or purity.

Since we are now living during Jesus’“presence,” how can we make sure that we have nothing to be ashamed of and are really walking in divine light? By ‘practicing righteousness.’‘If we know that God is righteous,’ John reasons,‘we are aware that everyone practicing righteousness has been born from him.’‘Practicing righteousness’ means obeying God’s commandments, avoiding unrighteousness, and engaging in such fine works as making disciples and assisting fellow believers.(Mark 13:10; Philippians 4:14-19; 1 Timothy 6:17, 18)
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29402 Oct 10, 2012
Hi Lee:

You may want to look at versaes like Eph. 2:8-9, it declares that both the grace and the faith are both the gift of God it is not just the grace but also the faith lest any man should boast.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of your selves: it is the gift of God: Not of works,lest anyman should boast."

Here we can see painly that both the grace and the faith are gifts of God. However, many want to believe just the grace is the gift the faith comes from our self this is a lie from Satan, this is why one of the fruits of the Spirit is faith it must come from the Spirit of God, why? Because we are dead in sin. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Good. Then, we're getting somewhere.
<quoted text>Context, Gary. Context.
At Galatians 5:22-23, we read what the "fruit of the Spirit" is. But, for far too long, this has been misinterpreted. Allow me to explain, please and if you will.
Many people take for granted our translations and put all their trust in the translator's efforts. What's to acknowledge and accept is that, the original authors were inspired, but not the translators. If the translators were inspired in the same manner as the original authors, such terms as "Easter" would have never made its way into the bible! NOTE: "Easter" is the name of an ancient, pagan goddess. From Astarte, to Ashtoreth, to Ishtar, to Oestre, to Eostre, to Eastre, to Easter. Anyway...the original tongues in which the bible was written contained no uppercase or lowercase letters. The capital and lowercase letters in the translations are according to the beliefs of the eras of the translators. And it's their use (or lack thereof) of the capital that causes this confusion. Case in point...
At Galatians 5:22, we read the term "Spirit," capitalized as I've done here. What is this "Spirit," though? At John 6:63, our anointed Savior taught; "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." NOTE: You'll notice that I didn't capitalize the term "spirit' in this verse, just as it's not capitalized in our English translations. Now, what's the significance, though?
Throughout the Greek "New Testament," the term for "spirit," whether capitalized or not, is "pneuma." And the definition is identical in just about each and every case. So, when we read of the "fruit of the Spirit," we're reading about the fruit of the words that our anointed Savior spake to his apostles, as proven at John 6:63. And what were his "words?" Again, he taught, "It is the spirit that quickeneth." At Psalm 119:93, it says, "I will never forget thy precepts; for with them thou hast quickened me." Then, returning to John 6:63, he further taught, "..the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." At Isaiah 1:10, it says, "Hear the word of YHWH...give ear unto the law of our God." These all coincide, do they not? So, essentially and in conclusion, we receive the fruit of the Spirit by learning and applying the commandments of Father, taught by our anointed Savior. The "fruit of the Spirit," then, is identical in meaning and interpretation with the "results of the words, or commandments, that our anointed Savior spoke to his apostles and, by extension, us. Now, on to Ephesians 2:8-9. And again. Context, Gary. Context.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast."
The "gift of God" Paul was referring to was not faith, but grace. Grace is given us as a gift of "God" and not according to any works we've done. These "works" are sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, for it was by these things that Israel sought grace and salvation from the most High before our anointed Savior died. Faith is necessary, as it's by our unwavering belief that our anointed Savior fulfilled these laws in himself to grant us grace and salvation. Understand?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29403 Oct 10, 2012
Dear all:

I am greatful for all the input concerning the nature of salvation. I like to put all this together as to answer many questions many may have.

1- The first thing we all must come to grips with is this, before one is saved the Bible tells us we are dead in our sins, Eph. 2:1-2, Romans 3:10-12, this means we have before one is saved no spiritual life within us to reach out and accept Jesus as many falsely claim sad to say.

2- Many people cannot get past this foundational biblcal fact that there is no one that will seek after God no not one! Now I am not saying this God is in, Rom. 3:10-12. Many show great contempt for the grace of God they may say they believe in this or that but when it comes to these points that I will disuss they will show great contemt towards God's word. Now they will not show this dirictly but indirictly by slandering the one who does believe the grace and the faith is all the mercy and grace of God.

3- The faith that we must have to believe must come from the work of God not from any man this is very plain in John 6:29, it states very plainly that it is all the work of God that anyone can believe, why? Because before this we were dead in our sins and there is not one that will seek God no not one. That is, there is no one in himself that will seek after the true gospel of grace.

4- The faith that we need is the faith of Christ and this comes by the Spirit of God.

"Knowing that a man is not jusified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law no flesh be justified" Gal. 2:16

Here God repeats this over twice that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST, not our faith, this is why Jesus is called in Heb. the author and finisher of our faith, Heb 12:2. He is the one who starts the faith to believe and He is the one who will finish this.

5- Now another major fact that many cannot come to grips with is, God had already chosen whom He will save from the foundation of the world this means before we were even born so this just takes out anything that we can do to merit salvation those that oppose this they oppose God not me. God is very clear that He had to accept us not us accepting Him He had too elect us, He had to adopt us into His family thus He gets all the glory.

"According as He HATH CHOSEN US in Him before THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we shoud be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having PREDISTINATED us unto adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to HIS GOOD PLEASURE OG HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED." Ehp. 1:4-6.

6- Fact, no free will wants to believe these facts in God's word that it is God that must accept us not us accepting God and He did this before the foundation of the world this is when He elected those that would be saved.

7- So, in Romans 9:16 tells us plainly that it is NOT of him that will's to be saved but of God that showeth mercy.

8- Most hate this gospel unless God draws them to His salvation.

9- God in His love depiste our rebelion has chosen a people for Himself. Now I have no idea who He chose or did not chose or if He will ever chose this one ot that one this is all God's work we do not enter into this at all.

10- God tells us in Ezeak. 36 that it is He that must give us a new heart, it is God that must give us a want to to truly worship Him in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23, all that I can do is share the nature the best I can concerning the salvation of God's plain remember, this is not something I have made up these are God's words I am quoting from so I just hope the very best for all who are under the hearing of these words as your alone are reading them that the Spirit of God may quicken your heart also. Thank you. Gary
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29404 Oct 10, 2012
Hi Student:

Yes, I believe to worship God must be done in Spirit and in truth, this is why one must be born again of the word [the truth] AND THE SPIRIT FOR THE TRUTH BY THE SPIRIT WILL SET THE CAPTIVES FREE THIS IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY OF WORSHIP. John 4:23.

This is why the true believer does not faulter from the core foundtion of the nature of salvation can he be wrong or in error on other matters? Sure the reason being, we all only know in part and we declare in part. We just do not know it all on this side of the earth in fact, I think we all even the believers know very little compared to the inifnite mind of the Amighty, the only time the believer will fully know all things is when he or she is in glory.

When it comes to other matters like dates time and such you can see how little we truly understood I must admit to this fact freely I do because the believer will take correction if he or she truly has a humble, broken, and contrite heart that has a want to that is, to serve the Lord as faithfully as possible, he will fall at times? Sure the Bible tells us that the just man falleth seven times yet will rise up again, the only reason why is, God upholds him, we must be able to look at our limitations. Many people think I am hurting their feeling when I share them the true nature of salvation but the real fact is, as a witness to the truth I truly love and want nothing but the highest good for all here this is the true desire of every true believer he never wants to beliitle one or shame one or mock one or slander one no, all this is of the flesh the true believer is in control and will show the fruits of the Spirit of God there should be a HUGE difference between the unsaved from the saved if there is not then maybe they to need salvation. The word tells us that the true believers will continue to examine himself to make sure his calling and election is sure, 2 Peter 1:10, 2 Cor. 13:5, This is what the true believer will do over and over. As I said before, all these debates are all over for me, sure I am happy to have a civil dialog with anyone that is open and not trying to inflict name calling on others these dear lost souls do not want to hear truth, unless God draws them and who knows look at Saul who became Paul? So, we just never know we can still pray for one another. Thank you. Gary
Student wrote:
Rather, those practicing true worship should be able to say to other worshipers as did Jesus:“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know.”(John 4:22)
Of course, finite men cannot know everything about an infinite God, but what they do know should not be in error, or, worse, a lie.“No lie originates with the truth,” says the apostle John.(1 John 2:21) In fact, Jesus went on to say that ‘knowing’ the truth is a must in worship acceptable to God:“True worshipers [“real worshippers,” New English Bible]... must worship with spirit and truth.” First-century Christianity was even called the “way of the truth.” Should not acceptable worship today likewise merit being called “the truth”? Do you think of your worship in that way?(John 4:23, 24; 2 Pet. 2:2; Josh. 24:14)
When Jesus said those words about the importance of truth in worship, he added that “the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.”(NW)“That is the kind of worshipper the Father wants.”(John 4:23, Jerusalem Bible) If the Father “wants” or “is looking for” those desiring to worship ‘with truth,’ then he would reasonably provide the means to know the truth. The way he does so attracts only ‘such kind’ of sincere persons to true worship.
The Bible alone presents the worship of the God Jehovah as the truth. Therefore, those who claim to use the Bible, but who fail to promote the worship of Jehovah have missed its purpose—and the truth.(Jer. 10:10, 23-25)
Have a great evening, Student, John 3:16
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29405 Oct 10, 2012
Hi Lee:

I can agree with much here. However, the point in view here is how does one arrive at faith? Is it from himself? Or is it all of the work of God? Do we have any part in getting this faith? We have to go back to the start. Thank you. Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, Gary.
<quoted text>This is your answer to my question, "Are you suggesting that a person must become born again before he can understand the Bible?"
<quoted text>I'm afraid I can't agree with you, Gary. And here's why.
1) The only foundation we're to build on is that of faith, which is in our Godhead.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, circumcision is no longer necessary in order to enter into a covenant with Father. Circumcision, as a signature, has been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, animal sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, are no longer necessary in order to be forgiven of our sins. These sacrifices, oblations, and offerings, have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that we've been granted grace and liberty, allowing us to learn of and become an identical image of the holy, just, good, and spiritual, law without fear of the penalties of death when we miss the mark. The penalties of death have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that we're no longer required to fulfill the precepts of the Sabbaths, as these precepts have been fulfilled in him.
Faith is the unwavering belief that by and through the shed blood of our anointed Savior, that all the services required of the earthly tabernacle have been fulfilled in him.
In conclusion, faith is the unwavering belief that all the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, have and will come to pass, to bless all nations, and this is our foundation. Our foundation is not the unwavering belief that all must receive the Holy Spirit before they can understand the bible. Consider the following, please and if you will.
Acts 10:44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
To understand my contention, we must now read Acts 10:1-2. This says; "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band. A DEVOUT MAN, and ONE THAT FEARED GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE, which gave alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Acts 10:22 says of this same one; "Cornelius the centurion, A JUST MAN, and ONE THAT FEARETH GOD, and of a good report among all the nation of the Jews."
Judging solely by what we've just read, it's obvious that Cornelius and his house understood the known bible of that era even before Peter arrived to preach the gospel to them. The proof of this is in the order of events we read about in chapter 10 of Acts. Just as obvious is the fact that Cornelius and his house received the Holy Spirit even before they were baptized! We cannot deny these facts, nor should we reject them.
Acts 10:1-2 Cornelius is called "A DEVOUT MAN, and ONE THAT FEARED GOD WITH ALL HIS HOUSE."
Acts 10:22 Cornelius is called "A JUST MAN, and ONE THAT FEARETH GOD."
Acts 10:44-46 Cornelius and those Gentiles with him receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47-48 Cornelius and those Gentiles with him get baptized.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29406 Oct 10, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
You may want to look at versaes like Eph. 2:8-9, it declares that both the grace and the faith are both the gift of God it is not just the grace but also the faith lest any man should boast.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of your selves: it is the gift of God: Not of works,lest anyman should boast."
Here we can see painly that both the grace and the faith are gifts of God. However, many want to believe just the grace is the gift the faith comes from our self this is a lie from Satan, this is why one of the fruits of the Spirit is faith it must come from the Spirit of God, why? Because we are dead in sin. Gary
Incorrect, Gary.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So you can understand, the word "through" is what makes you in error. If you were correct, the verse would read as such...

"For by grace are ye saved [AND] faith; and [THESE] not of yourselves:[THEY] are the [giftS] of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

In actuality, we can remove the terms "through faith" from the verse and still come to the same conclusion. In other words, faith in grace could and should be automatically applied. It would read as such, though.

"For be grace are ye saved; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

How, Gary, do we receive faith? According to Romans 10:17, "..faith cometh by hearing." I believe it's acceptable to include reading in this equation, too, as whether we're listening to a preacher (hearing), or reading, the message should be identical.

Again, I explained how that the fruit of the Spirit is identical, in meaning, to the result of when we allow the words our anointed Savior taught to lead us. In other words, being "led of the Spirit" means that we've made the words our anointed Savior taught our guide. When we accept the teachings of our anointed Savior, we learn to live in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. These attributes are not miraculously implanted into us, Gary.

Consider what you're saying, Gary. Would "God" not allow men to become believers by withholding His spiritual attributes from them, then cast them into the lake of fire for their rejection?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29407 Oct 10, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, Gary.
Gary wrote:
I can agree with much here.
Excellent.
Gary wrote:
However,
However?
Gary wrote:
the point in view here is how does one arrive at faith?
By hearing. Romans 10:17
Gary wrote:
Is it from himself?
Yes.
Gary wrote:
Or is it all of the work of God?
No. Faith is within us.

[QUOTE who=Gary"]Do we have any part in getting this faith?[/QUOTE]Yes.
Gary wrote:
We have to go back to the start.
Let's begin, then.
Gary wrote:
Thank you. Gary
You're welcome. Brother Lee Love.

If what you say is true, Gary, then the following verses either, are grossly misinterpreted, or are useless.

Matthew 8:10
When Yahowshua heard it, he marvelled, and said unto them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

QUESTION: If this centurion received faith by Father, then why would Yahowshua react the way he did? Wouldn't he have expected it?

Matthew 9:22, 29
But Yahowshua turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; THY faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to YOUR faith be it unto you.

QUESTION: Why would Yahowshua mislead these people by making them believe that faith is their own attribute?

Matthew 15:28
Then Yahowshua answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that hour.

QUESTION: Why did Yahowshua attribute this faith to this woman, a Gentile?

There are more, as I'm sure you know. I feel that these are enough, though. Following, now, are verses that has our anointed Savior rebuking people for their lack of faith.

Matthew 6:30
Matthew 8:26
Matthew 14:31
Matthew 16:8
Mark 4:40
Luke 8:25
Luke 12:28

QUESTION: Would our anointed Savior be a righteous and just judge if he rebuked anyone for their lack of faith when, in actuality, it was Father that didn't bless them with faith?

Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

QUESTION: Would Yahowshua ask anyone anything regarding matters that was out of their control?

What say you, Gary?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29408 Oct 10, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Lee:
Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, Gary.
Gary wrote:
I can agree with much here.
Excellent.
Gary wrote:
However,
However?
Gary wrote:
the point in view here is how does one arrive at faith?
By hearing. Romans 10:17
Gary wrote:
Is it from himself?
Yes.
Gary wrote:
Or is it all of the work of God?
No. Faith is within us.
Gary wrote:
Do we have any part in getting this faith?
Yes.
Gary wrote:
We have to go back to the start.
Let's begin, then.
Gary wrote:
Thank you. Gary
You're welcome. Brother Lee Love.

If what you say is true, Gary, then the following verses either, are grossly misinterpreted, or are useless.

Matthew 8:10
When Yahowshua heard it, he marvelled, and said unto them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

QUESTION: If this centurion received faith by Father, then why would Yahowshua react the way he did? Wouldn't he have expected it?

Matthew 9:22, 29
But Yahowshua turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; THY faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to YOUR faith be it unto you.

QUESTION: Why would Yahowshua mislead these people by making them believe that faith is their own attribute?

Matthew 15:28
Then Yahowshua answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that hour.

QUESTION: Why did Yahowshua attribute this faith to this woman, a Gentile?

There are more, as I'm sure you know. I feel that these are enough, though. Following, now, are verses that has our anointed Savior rebuking people for their lack of faith.

Matthew 6:30
Matthew 8:26
Matthew 14:31
Matthew 16:8
Mark 4:40
Luke 8:25
Luke 12:28

QUESTION: Would our anointed Savior be a righteous and just judge if he rebuked anyone for their lack of faith when, in actuality, it was Father that didn't bless them with faith?

Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

QUESTION: Would Yahowshua ask anyone anything regarding matters that was out of their control?

What say you, Gary?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29410 Oct 10, 2012
dr Shrink wrote:
let me interupt you mister BLL
By all means.
dr Shrink wrote:
ancient greek koine not written language,mostly only spoken by peasants
have 2 meaning,phisical and spiritual meanings,
I agree. I, personally and constantly, refer to the Greek texts to determine both meanings. Along with my Greek searches, I rely on coinciding scriptures.
dr Shrink wrote:
also Jesus spoken words doesn't support your explanation about FAITH,
Actually, they do. Our anointed Savior could have referred to the faith these people exhibited as from Father, or "Father's faith," but he didn't. He attributed their faith as being their own.
dr Shrink wrote:
sorry for sticking my nose between yours converstion,
Not a problem, dr Shrink. Your input is appreciated.
dr Shrink wrote:
I love you BLL,Gary,and Student,
and read all of your posts,
only english limitation allow me to read,and not mix
And I appreciate this, too. And the more you practice, the better you'll get.
dr Shrink wrote:
let me add, english word THRUOGH FAITH, doesn,t sound same in greek language,
I know what you meant by this. And it does.

I know that there are certain Greek terms that have numerous English terms to choose from, but that's when we must rely on context. In context, "grace through faith" doesn't mean that both are gifts. Faith in grace is required and expected of us.
dr Shrink wrote:
we are not able to have TRUE FAITH IS WE ARE NOT SAVED BY GRACE,
Since our anointed Savior died, we've all been saved by grace. Grace, all in all, is the temporary fulfillment of the wages for sin until the day of Judgment. Our anointed Savior accomplished this for us, with his own blood. In conclusion, grace is a gift from our Godhead. Faith is within us.
dr Shrink wrote:
our wickendess and complete corruption by Sin our nature is planted in our DNA FROM THE WOMB OF OUR MOTHERS PSALM 58;3.53;3 IS. 48;8
You misunderstand the psalm, dr Shrink. We inherit uncleanness from Adam in the same manner Levi paid tithes while in the loins of Abraham. The reason that "sin" and "sinner" are used in these verses is because, it's by sin that all became unclean. We inherit uncleanness, but not dishonor for our parents, or murder, or adultery, or stealing, or bearing false witness, or covetousness. In other words, at one years old, we're unclean, but we don't desire to commit adultery. Uncleanness is inherited. Sin is learned.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#29411 Oct 10, 2012
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>........ We inherit uncleanness, but not dishonor for our parents, or murder, or adultery, or stealing, or bearing false witness, or covetousness. In other words, at one years old, we're unclean, but we don't desire to commit adultery. Uncleanness is inherited. Sin is learned.


Hello Brother, good exchanges...and shortened post to isolate that which I'd like to elaborate, if I may...

This is key, and where >Free Will< comes into play...the "Choice". What you highlight in the above statement I like to term "Spiritual Genetics"- the propensity or "trait" exists, but will it manifest?

To illustrate ,simplistically, one may be genetically predisposed to be quite tall,yet never use that height to an advantage in the arena of sports(basketball)- instead >choosing< to become an accountant.

Likewise , we may possess a "sin nature" but are constantly choosing the manifestation of such through "personal sin", as you point out adultery, parental dishonour,ect.

It comes down to responsibility , is one responsible for their actions or are we mere automatons?

This really is the question in the freewill/hyper-Reformed debate.

Just me 2 wee pennies:)

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#29412 Oct 11, 2012
Senecus wrote:
Hello Brother, good exchanges...and shortened post to isolate that which I'd like to elaborate, if I may...
This is key, and where >Free Will< comes into play...the "Choice". What you highlight in the above statement I like to term "Spiritual Genetics"- the propensity or "trait" exists, but will it manifest?
To illustrate ,simplistically, one may be genetically predisposed to be quite tall,yet never use that height to an advantage in the arena of sports(basketball)- instead >choosing< to become an accountant.
Likewise , we may possess a "sin nature" but are constantly choosing the manifestation of such through "personal sin", as you point out adultery, parental dishonour,ect.
It comes down to responsibility , is one responsible for their actions or are we mere automatons?
This really is the question in the freewill/hyper-Reformed debate.
Just me 2 wee pennies:)
Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, Senecus.

You might not be aware of this, but I was taught and led exclusively by the Holy Spirit, so I can't be wrong! In turn, you can't be right!

Only kidding, Brother. hehe

Anyway, I don't believe that sin is "natural in us." I believe that the confusion arises because, rather than use the term "uncleanness," which is the fruit, the authors preferred the term "sin;" the root. Paul, too, made use of such general terminology that, sadly, causes much confusion. To me, a blink is natural. Scratching an itch while asleep is natural. Breathing is natural. We can try with all our might to refrain from breathing, or blinking. But, in the end, what's natural in us will win. These are actions, though, that require no forethought or planning. And in my humble opinion, what doesn't require forethought or planning is natural while all else is not.

I believe that what the authors were trying to convey is the extent of sin in our world, and the fact that all people (for the most part) are raised by sinners in a most sinful environment. Each generation, too, is worse than the last. In this sense, sin appears as if it's natural in us.

Our anointed Savior died free from sin. He, also, was born clean, or without blemish. But, had he been conceived by natural methods (by Joseph, literally), he would have been born unclean and blemished. So, regardless of whether he remained sinless or not wouldn't have mattered in the end. Had he been born unclean and blemished, as we all are, his sacrifice would have been useless and unacceptable, per the law. In my humble opinion, the mere fact that he was still tempted in all points (as we are) serves to prove that sin can't be natural in us. Had that been the case, then he couldn't have been tempted at all, having not inherited this sinful nature from Adam. This so-called "sinful nature," after all, is inherited through Adam and not Eve. In conclusion, this uncleanness is in the seed and not the egg.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29413 Oct 11, 2012
Hi Lee:

Your question:

[Would God not allow men to become believers by withholding His spiritual attubutes from them, then cast them into the lake of fire for their rejection?]

Lee, first I have asked you how does one recieve faith? You never answered any of my points in my last post to you why? I believe the reason why is and I understand because those verses I have shared shows faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Lee, this hearing has to do with God appling His word to ones heart to give them spiritual ears to hear this is why in Rev. 2 and 3 Jesus tells us only those that has ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit saith. You see Lee, it is the work of God that one believes on the Lord this is just a basic biblical fact, John 6:29 you have not anwered any of the verses except for Hebrews 10:17 and I just explained this to you again Lee.

Now concerning your question I will answer this basic question.

Yes, God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy on Lee, the fact is, no one deserves salvation because the fact is, we are all born sinners you just do not see this fact in, Eph. 2:1-2, Romans 3:10-12.

Lee, when God tells us that there is no one that will seek after God no not one, God means this. Despite of the rebelion of man God will have a people for Himself. Now Lee it is not in man that can will to be saved this is a biblical fact.

"So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy"

"Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth"

"Hath not the potter power of the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?"

"For the children being not born neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousnes with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I WILL have mercy on whom I WILL have mercy, and I WILL have compassion on whom I WILL have copassion. So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH,,," Rom.. 9:16, 18, 21, 13,14,15 Gary
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>Incorrect, Gary.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So you can understand, the word "through" is what makes you in error. If you were correct, the verse would read as such...
"For by grace are ye saved [AND] faith; and [THESE] not of yourselves:[THEY] are the [giftS] of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
In actuality, we can remove the terms "through faith" from the verse and still come to the same conclusion. In other words, faith in grace could and should be automatically applied. It would read as such, though.
"For be grace are ye saved; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
How, Gary, do we receive faith? According to Romans 10:17, "..faith cometh by hearing." I believe it's acceptable to include reading in this equation, too, as whether we're listening to a preacher (hearing), or reading, the message should be identical.
Again, I explained how that the fruit of the Spirit is identical, in meaning, to the result of when we allow the words our anointed Savior taught to lead us. In other words, being "led of the Spirit" means that we've made the words our anointed Savior taught our guide. When we accept the teachings of our anointed Savior, we learn to live in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. These attributes are not miraculously implanted into us, Gary.
Consider what you're saying, Gary. Would "God" not allow men to become believers by withholding His spiritual attributes from them, then cast them into the lake of fire for their rejection?
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29414 Oct 11, 2012
Dear all:

I have given biblical examples that shows us that saving faith MUST come from God, these verses will not fade away below. We have to deal with them before one can move on. Gary
Gary wrote:
Dear all:
1- The first thing we all must come to grips with is this, before one is saved the Bible tells us we are dead in our sins, Eph. 2:1-2, Romans 3:10-12, this means we have before one is saved no spiritual life within us to reach out and accept Jesus as many falsely claim sad to say.
2- Many people cannot get past this foundational biblcal fact that there is no one that will seek after God no not one! Now I am not saying this God is in, Rom. 3:10-12. Many show great contempt for the grace of God they may say they believe in this or that but when it comes to these points that I will disuss they will show great contemt towards God's word. Now they will not show this dirictly but indirictly by slandering the one who does believe the grace and the faith is all the mercy and grace of God.
3- The faith that we must have to believe must come from the work of God not from any man this is very plain in John 6:29, it states very plainly that it is all the work of God that anyone can believe, why? Because before this we were dead in our sins and there is not one that will seek God no not one. That is, there is no one in himself that will seek after the true gospel of grace.
4- The faith that we need is the faith of Christ and this comes by the Spirit of God.
"Knowing that a man is not jusified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law no flesh be justified" Gal. 2:16
Here God repeats this over twice that it is the FAITH OF CHRIST, not our faith, this is why Jesus is called in Heb. the author and finisher of our faith, Heb 12:2. He is the one who starts the faith to believe and He is the one who will finish this.
5- Now another major fact that many cannot come to grips with is, God had already chosen whom He will save from the foundation of the world this means before we were even born so this just takes out anything that we can do to merit salvation those that oppose this they oppose God not me. God is very clear that He had to accept us not us accepting Him He had too elect us, He had to adopt us into His family thus He gets all the glory.
"According as He HATH CHOSEN US in Him before THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we shoud be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having PREDISTINATED us unto adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to HIS GOOD PLEASURE OG HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED." Ehp. 1:4-6.
6- Fact, no free will wants to believe these facts in God's word that it is God that must accept us not us accepting God and He did this before the foundation of the world this is when He elected those that would be saved.
7- So, in Romans 9:16 tells us plainly that it is NOT of him that will's to be saved but of God that showeth mercy.
8- Most hate this gospel unless God draws them to His salvation.
9- God in His love depiste our rebelion has chosen a people for Himself. Now I have no idea who He chose or did not chose or if He will ever chose this one ot that one this is all God's work we do not enter into this at all.
10- God tells us in Ezeak. 36 that it is He that must give us a new heart, it is God that must give us a want to to truly worship Him in Spirit and in truth, John 4:23, all that I can do is share the nature the best I can concerning the salvation of God's plain remember, this is not something I have made up these are God's words I am quoting from so I just hope the very best for all who are under the hearing of these words as your alone are reading them that the Spirit of God may quicken your heart also. Thank you. Gary

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