What Your Church Won't Tell You by Da...
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#29138 Sep 6, 2012
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing wrong with having blood transfusions? Christians are commanded to ‘abstain from blood’
READ Acts 15:28, 29:“The HOLY SPIRIT and we ourselves [the governing body of the Christian congregation] have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled [or, killed without draining their blood] and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”(There the eating of blood is equated with idolatry and fornication, things that we should not want to engage in.)
Did you notice that the Holy Spirit was involved with this command? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit would tell us that it is ok now to take blood?
I agree with you.

Only christian Freedom,require to make own free decisions about blood transfusion

Not to be enforced by APOSTATE GOVERNING BODY OF JE TODAY,

They Completly fall apart from the true following of Holy Spirit Commands,and Fist Century Governing Body,

YOUR LEADERS FROM WTBS JW,AND DFS, ARE APOSTATE INFLUENCED BY DEVIL SPIRIT 2 COR 11;13-15.2 THEE 2;3-12.ISAIAH 14;13-14. EZEK 28;2

so?
you and your leaders man doctrines are bling and carnal,worth nothing,JUST SIMPLE APOSTATE RELIGION HAVIN NOTHING TO DO WITH TEACHINGS OF HOLY SPIRIT,AND FIRST APOSTOLIC CHURCH
Mat 15;14
Let them alone;they be blind leaders of the blind,
And if the blind lead the blind,both shall fall into the ditch
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#29139 Sep 6, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi John:
grevious and I may come across as a [know it all] at times but for some reason I have no clue why that God has allowed me to correct much of what I was taught from my youth up. Gary
<quoted text>
LET ME SAY SOMETHING GARY
God knows you,and He want to make you as His chosen clean vesel according to His Purpose,not your own,or made by man deceived doctrines
2 Cor 7;1
God want to have You as Holy,Clean and without of any spot or blemish in spirit and body.

listen careful student post about blood transfussion,
and eliminate demands of man made doctrines about this matter,
only use your OWN CHOICE BASED ON YOUR OWN SPIRITUAL MATURE CONCIEOUES APPOINTED BY GOD AND CHOSEN BY HIM,TO BE HIS FREE CHILD OF GOD,WITHOUT OF MAN BONDS GAL 5;1
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29142 Sep 7, 2012
Hi Dr:

All that one can really do is beg God for His mercy that we may be faithful and true to His word. The test is this, when we share clear teaching concerning any dotrine and they refuse to take heed all we can do is share the word with them and to pray for them. We cannot convice anyone of truth all this is the work of God that anyoe can believe upon Him to [believe is a work] However, it is the work of God. Believe or faith is an action word but all the action must come from God as Jesus said:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, It is the WORK OF GOD, THAT YOU BELIEVE UPON HIM, whom He hath sent" John 6:29

We see here it is not the work of man that we believe on the Lord as most churches teach today just belive and accept Him and your saved this is a do it your self have it your way self help gospel made up of the work of man this is just how subtle Satan is, He will have you think that one is saved by these actions but he has snared them there is nothing so deceptive is thinking one is saved when he is lost he is saying peace, peace, when there is no peace with God sad to say. This is why many shall say in that day, Lord Lord, HAVE WE NOT?? Matthew 7:22-23. Their gospel is based on WE, WE, ME, ME, I, I, this is all the work of man and this is why Jesus will say, depart from me you that work wickedness, I never knew you. This is the day to truly open ones self up to correction just by the word not by any man. Thank you for those verses. Gary
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
LET ME SAY SOMETHING GARY
God knows you,and He want to make you as His chosen clean vesel according to His Purpose,not your own,or made by man deceived doctrines
2 Cor 7;1
God want to have You as Holy,Clean and without of any spot or blemish in spirit and body.
listen careful student post about blood transfussion,
and eliminate demands of man made doctrines about this matter,
only use your OWN CHOICE BASED ON YOUR OWN SPIRITUAL MATURE CONCIEOUES APPOINTED BY GOD AND CHOSEN BY HIM,TO BE HIS FREE CHILD OF GOD,WITHOUT OF MAN BONDS GAL 5;1
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29143 Sep 7, 2012
Hi John:

Since you seem so insistent on talking about man concerning what Mr. Camping believes as you said he is a cult. Could you share with us what Mr. Camping believes concerning the nature of salvation? Many people have predicted a date just to see it come and go this is wrong and sinful I already admit to this fact. However, you have to define a cult before we have this kneee jerk, slap tich reaction and go off and accuse one of being a cult. Now since I know the doctrines of your church very well I can say the same thing concerning your church in fact they believe the so called one of the girls in a small town called fatima said she seen Mary with a few other girls also and this lady she believed to be Mary gave her a time of the judgment of the LORD BUT IT IS HIDDEN BY THE CHURCH.

They said they have the message but will not disclose it so they also claim they know what will take place in the future concerning judgment and the return of the Lord.

John, we first must define what a cult is before one can just make sweeping statements of this, Pat Robertson, Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeferry, and many, many, more predicted the return of the Lord and were all wrong here. What makes one a cult is the gospel they teach concerning the very nature of salvation how do they arrive at this? Many say you can go to this saint or Mary for intersecion to pray to, some believe a works gospel,others believe you must be slain in the spirit with signs following, I can go on and on here but you must be able to show from the word what makes one a cult a different gospel altogether? Thank you. Gary
JohnJaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Gary,
I beg your pardon. I thought you already knew what the Bible says. This what Jesus said. in accordance with what I have been saying.
Luke 22:19
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
So now you know from scripture what Jesus said. If you look carefully at what Jesus said at Luke 22:20, it has everything to do with showing our love for him and being a part of the new covenant. As cunning as he is, the devil doesn't want us to be a part of th covenant. He doesn't want people showing they are Jesus friends. Jesus gave his his life for his friends.
<quoted text>
I've cut short what you have said to that. You aren't really going by the fruit Gary. Love is a fruit of the Spirit and it is God that puts the love there. God put's the love there. Not the devil!!! God! The Holy Spirit is not the devil!!!!
It wasn't God that steered you in to Camping cult. It was the devil. God desires good fruit. Not bad fruit.
You look at the sins of Camping and make accuses. Jesus is our Lord and Saviour. He gave his life for sinners. Of course you will find sinners in the Roman Catholic Church and every other denomination that is part of the New Covenant in Christ.
I recognised early on that what is made apparent in your words that there is healing that needs to take place in your life. You have confirmed that. The devil certainly won't be putting love in our hearts for Jesus. You have made a an extremely serious and dangerous mistake. It means you can't recognise the devil. That explains how you managed to fall for it when Camping stated the Holy Spirit is no longer in the churches.
There are obviously verses of scriptures that you are blind to. That has been proven in what Jesus said. "This is." All things must fall under Christ's feet. You can't see that either. You can't see the love in hearts. The Holy spirit puts the love in hearts for Jesus and not the devil.
May God bless you. May you be healed. That might take time. Have a nice day.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29144 Sep 7, 2012
Hi Dr:

Your question,

[Do you feel that the Holy Spirit would tell us it is ok to take blood?]

No, the verse that you have shared shows this fact. However, you have added your points [brackets] into this verse which I believe it does not refer to eating or drinking blood, the Bible says it is fine to eat meat, 1 Tim. 4:3

Some will show a will worship by teaching some to abstain from meats which God has given us and it is by thanksgiving by thanking God in a prayer for the food that He gave us.

When we do a word study on the word [meat] we can see some will follow not eating meat if they feel this is wrong fine don't eat meat but to make this a command of God we see no command in the Bible the Old Testatement they were not allowed to eat anything unclean that is anything with a split hoff and a few other things. However, in the new Testament Peter had a vision of these animals and he said he would not eat unclean animals and God told Peter what God has made clean it is clean. So, we have to allow the whole weight of the Bible to bear record on this some will judge us outwardly on meats, holidays, the Sabbath, the new moons, and such all this is an out ward act and we know God wants the heart, the Scribes and the Pharisses were very good at this as you very well know I am sure they kept on adding to the law of God as many churches do today do they not?

Now any time we have a steak for example, we will always have a little juice in the steak that has a little bit of blood. However, these animals are not strangeled are they?

So, we have to be careful what we think God is commanding people to do and not to do. The Bible also says if meat offends thy brother then don't eat the meat in front of him for conscience sake and not to be rude in their presence.

For some they want to be a vegetarian they refrain from all meats, some refrain from meat only on a certain day, some just do not eat pork, and so on.

Dr. I would myself never make this a major issue because there are so many very important issues out there that many have no clue concerning the very nature or foundation of salvation. One said I was in a cult. I do not mind anyone saying this of me because I know it is God that judgeth alone. So, all that I can do is share from the word and ask the question what makes one a biblical cult?

You see some get offended and I can understand when one exposes their false man made teaching this truly hurts ones pride but what would you rather have hurt your pride or your soul? Heb. 12:29 goes into this in some detail.

"For our God is a consuming fire."

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the true and living God if one is under the judgment of God there seems like there is no more fear of God these days. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is sad when I see one becoming harden to truth it truly saddens me to know end at times, this is why we have to be more patiant and longsuffering with each other, I was where many are also and it was a long road for me and I am still making correction along the way by the mercy of God. Thank you. Gary.
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing wrong with having blood transfusions? Christians are commanded to ‘abstain from blood’
READ Acts 15:28, 29:“The HOLY SPIRIT and we ourselves [the governing body of the Christian congregation] have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled [or, killed without draining their blood] and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”(There the eating of blood is equated with idolatry and fornication, things that we should not want to engage in.)
Did you notice that the Holy Spirit was involved with this command? Do you feel that the Holy Spirit would tell us that it is ok now to take blood?
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29146 Sep 7, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Dr:
Your question,
[Do you feel that the Holy Spirit would tell us it is ok to take blood?]
No, the verse that you have shared shows this fact. However, you have added your points [brackets] into this verse which I believe it does not refer to eating or drinking blood, the Bible says it is fine to eat meat, 1 Tim. 4:3
Some will show a will worship by teaching some to abstain from meats which God has given us and it is by thanksgiving by thanking God in a prayer for the food that He gave us.
When we do a word study on the word [meat] we can see some will follow not eating meat if they feel this is wrong fine don't eat meat but to make this a command of God we see no command in the Bible the Old Testatement they were not allowed to eat anything unclean that is anything with a split hoff and a few other things. However, in the new Testament Peter had a vision of these animals and he said he would not eat unclean animals and God told Peter what God has made clean it is clean. So, we have to allow the whole weight of the Bible to bear record on this some will judge us outwardly on meats, holidays, the Sabbath, the new moons, and such all this is an out ward act and we know God wants the heart, the Scribes and the Pharisses were very good at this as you very well know I am sure they kept on adding to the law of God as many churches do today do they not?
Now any time we have a steak for example, we will always have a little juice in the steak that has a little bit of blood. However, these animals are not strangeled are they?
So, we have to be careful what we think God is commanding people to do and not to do. The Bible also says if meat offends thy brother then don't eat the meat in front of him for conscience sake and not to be rude in their presence.
For some they want to be a vegetarian they refrain from all meats, some refrain from meat only on a certain day, some just do not eat pork, and so on.
Dr. I would myself never make this a major issue because there are so many very important issues out there that many have no clue concerning the very nature or foundation of salvation. One said I was in a cult. I do not mind anyone saying this of me because I know it is God that judgeth alone. So, all that I can do is share from the word and ask the question what makes one a biblical cult?
You see some get offended and I can understand when one exposes their false man made teaching this truly hurts ones pride but what would you rather have hurt your pride or your soul? Heb. 12:29 goes into this in some detail.
"For our God is a consuming fire."
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the true and living God if one is under the judgment of God there seems like there is no more fear of God these days. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is sad when I see one becoming harden to truth it truly saddens me to know end at times, this is why we have to be more patiant and longsuffering with each other, I was where many are also and it was a long road for me and I am still making correction along the way by the mercy of God. Thank you. Gary.
<quoted text>
Hi Gary,
I believe your original question had to do with blood transfusions. My reply was to that effect.

Do you not think that Jehovah’s knows that when we eat any kind of meat that there will be some residual blood left in it?

Jehovah knows more about life and blood than anyone. All His commandments have proved to be for our good, safeguarding our present life and our future prospects.(Isa. 48:17; 1 Tim. 4:8) Is the command to ‘abstain from blood’ any different?

Cont...
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29147 Sep 7, 2012
Does the Bible’s prohibition include human blood?
Yes, and early Christians understood it that way. Acts 15:29 says to “keep abstaining from ... blood.” It does not say merely to abstain from animal blood.(Compare Leviticus 17:10, which prohibited eating “any sort of blood.”)

Is a transfusion really the same as eating blood?
In a hospital, when a patient cannot eat through his mouth, he is fed intravenously. Now, would a person who never put blood into his mouth but who accepted blood by transfusion really be obeying the command to “keep abstaining from ... blood”?(Acts 15:29) To use a comparison, consider a man who is told by the doctor that he must abstain from alcohol. Would he be obedient if he quit drinking alcohol but had it put directly into his veins?

WE MUST HAVE GOD’S HELP TO UNDERSTAND
This statement is true because God sees some goodness of heart in anyone sincerely inquiring into his Word. As a result, he opens that one’s mind to understanding. Jesus said:“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him.”(John 6:44) You cannot understand the purposes of God without the help of God’s spirit, his invisible active force, which can influence and direct your mind.

The apostle Paul wrote:“No one has come to know the things of God, except the spirit of God.[That is, God’s spirit is essential for transmitting God’s thoughts and purposes to us.] Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.”(1 Corinthians 2:11, 12; compare Acts 16:14.) If you did not have this help, then the confusion of this world, its lack of faith and its spirit, which is in opposition to God, would overcome you, for “faith is not a possession of all people.”(1 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 3:2)

In this responding to your effort to get understanding, God is displaying another fine quality toward you. That quality is appreciation. You no doubt have and express appreciation for good things that others do for you. But the appreciation that humans feel is far less deep and heartfelt than God’s appreciation of those who show faith in him and who have respect for his Word. He rejoices in them. Jesus even spoke about joy in heaven over one sinner that repents or forsakes wrong things in order to please God.(Luke 15:10) Why, Jesus said that a person giving just a cup of cold water to one whom he recognized to be a servant of God would by no means fail to be rewarded.(Matthew 10:42) God observes and appreciates each one who respects his name and treats his people kindly. So, his heart and his help go out to that person.—Consider the example recorded at Mark 14:3-9.
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#29148 Sep 7, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Dr:
All that one can really do is beg God for His mercy that we may be faithful and true to His word. The test is this, when we share clear teaching concerning any dotrine and they refuse to take heed all we can do is share the word with them and to pray for them. We cannot convice anyone of truth all this is the work of God that anyoe can believe upon Him to [believe is a work] However, it is the work of God. Believe or faith is an action word but all the action must come from God as Jesus said:
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, It is the WORK OF GOD, THAT YOU BELIEVE UPON HIM, whom He hath sent" John 6:29
We see here it is not the work of man that we believe on the Lord as most churches teach today just belive and accept Him and your saved this is a do it your self have it your way self help gospel made up of the work of man this is just how subtle Satan is, He will have you think that one is saved by these actions but he has snared them there is nothing so deceptive is thinking one is saved when he is lost he is saying peace, peace, when there is no peace with God sad to say. This is why many shall say in that day, Lord Lord, HAVE WE NOT?? Matthew 7:22-23. Their gospel is based on WE, WE, ME, ME, I, I, this is all the work of man and this is why Jesus will say, depart from me you that work wickedness, I never knew you. This is the day to truly open ones self up to correction just by the word not by any man. Thank you for those verses. Gary
<quoted text>
I appreciate your post, and your mature atitude,
only true believers are able to conversate,without of groudge,insults,or mock each other,

I DO REALLY LOVE ALL SINGLE BROTHERS IN CHRIST?

but very difficult is to find them in this life, Psalm 107;3-14...
wildernis wild jungle of this world make it not so simple and easy
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29149 Sep 7, 2012
Hi John:

I can see John that you are getting a bit frustrated and I truly understand, not being rude here but your not sharing any verses to prove any points here, all that you are doing is making this issue either about a mere man or your church. John salvation, true salvation is more than some church or some mere man be it Mr. Camping or the pope it really makes no difference here. I said before as soon as one gets on the subject of your church or any church it seems that the word just leaves this is truly sad John because it is not me or your church or any mere man that can set one free it is the word and the Spirit that sets one free but this takes a HUGE miricle from God to work this work of love and mercy John. We are saved by the word of God because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17, We must be born again by the word and the Spirit, 1 Peter 1:23, John 3:1-7, 17:17, Eph. 5:26, Eph. 2:8-9, John 4:23, this is what God declares John I am not making this statement verses like this and many more that speak of this great work as Jesus who said Himself.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, This is THE WORK OF GOD THAT YOU BELIEVE ON HIM whom He hath sent." John 6:29.

John, when I share the word and you ask a question all that I can do is tell you what the word of God declares this is all I can do as a faithful witness.

Now if you disagree with these verses you have to take this up with the Lord not me John. What is it in those verses that you disagree with? John, your right, we cannot give God instructions God is the sole authority that determis what truth is this is why I am sharing these verses with you to search out. I have gone into great detail with you concerning how God saves and what God hates that is a man made religion Jesus had this in His day and he went into great detail in Matthew 23, concerning this issue. You see John when God tells us that people who bow down to serve dead man idols He hates this, Exodus 20:4-5, these are God's words John, this is why the unsaved relgious people of Jesus day hated the Lord because He exposed their false man made religion just as He does today by His word John, the test is, will we obey God's laws or man's? This is not hard to understand John, mankind in his sin nature never wants to bow down to the Lord because of sin and rebelion the true test of true love is obediance to His word John, Jesus said, If you love me keep my commandments, this is His whole word John. Now for some reason you want to make this about mere man, it is about the word John I hope you will see this by God's mercy. Thank you. Gary
JohnJaws wrote:
Hello Gary,
you said: "It is a blessing from God that you understand that when Jesus said, do this in remembrance of me it was not literal."
When Jesus said "This is..." he understood that God who made the Heavens and the earth, all things in them, and who creates life, is Almighty. Are you trying to tell me that the Transubstansiation would be the problem for the Almighty?
Why would God give the body and blood of Christ the guise of beard and wine? Might he have a good reason?
All would know the miracle that occurs and who would be able to deny that God exists? Who would reveal their true hearts? False prophets etc are all in the plan of God! Who would be fooled by false prophets upon noticining the miracle that wouldn't occur? False prophets have their purpose.
Having dismissed God as not being almighty you overlook that. We can't tell God what he can and cannot do. He is above us. We can't give God instructions that he should obey them. That would make us above God. We have to remember our place.
while you are passing judgement on God and his church, be it divided one, are you thinking of starting another one? "The church of the what God can't do," starring Rev. Gary Higgins?
May God bless you Gary. Have a nice day.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29150 Sep 7, 2012
Hi John:

I am sorry but I am not sure what point your making here? Are you implying one cannot eat any meat here? Surely we know from some of the verses I have already shared that man can eat meat and it should be received with thinksgiving by prayer, in fact God even tells us that there will come a day when man will try to forbid one to marry and to abstain from meats. Now we can marry can we not? Likewise, we see in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 God tells us He created meat for mankind for our blessing we can be thnakful.

"Forbidding to mary, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creture of God IS GOOD, AND NOTHING TO BE REFUSED, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:3-5

Here we can see very plaining that God created the animals for the blessing for mankind. God hath created these to be received with thanksgiving and by prayer.

Now if you want to refrain from eatiing meat this is fine also but there is no law concerning not eating meat. There is no mention of blood at all in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 at all here, I don't know if your trying to say God means not to eat meat in these verses because it has some juice and a bit of blood in the juice? It just does not say this in these verses. Also, the verse you have shared in Isa. 48:17 has nothing to do with blood in this verse.

"Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go." Isa. 48:17

I am not sure what your trying to say to prove your points with these verses I have shown you in, 1 Tim. 4:3-5, God created this meat to be received with thanksgiving and prayer.

I thank you for sharing those verses but they show nothing of not eating meat here at all in fact, it shows the very opposite here.

Here in Isa. 48:17, God tells us He will lead His people where they should go by His word this is why God has given us His word it is the way, the truth, and the life. Thank you for your input. Gary.
Student wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Gary,
I believe your original question had to do with blood transfusions. My reply was to that effect.
Do you not think that Jehovah’s knows that when we eat any kind of meat that there will be some residual blood left in it?
Jehovah knows more about life and blood than anyone. All His commandments have proved to be for our good, safeguarding our present life and our future prospects.(Isa. 48:17; 1 Tim. 4:8) Is the command to ‘abstain from blood’ any different?
Cont...
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29151 Sep 7, 2012
Hi Dr:

Thank you. I understand the reason why some get upset.

1- The truth [the word] convicts.

2- It is very hard really impossible to give up ones belief be it false unless God in His love steps in and does the work to save one.

3- Mankind in his own will cannot serve God of the Bible. However, he CAN COME UP WITH MANY MAN MADE INVENTIONS AS WE SEE IN SO MANY RELIGIONS TODAY.

4- ONLY WHEN GOD APPLIES HIS WORD TO ONES HEART BY HIS SPIRIT TO SAVE HIM THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL HE TURN FROM A FALSE GOSPEL TO SERVE THE TRUE AND LIVING GOD.

5- One cannot convice another of truth this is impossible just knowing this can free the believer knowing all the work of saving is up to the Lord he cannot do nothing but to serve the Lord as a witness to truth that's it.

6- Mankind truly hates the true gospel because it leaves [self] out of the equation, man will never seek God on His terms never, Romans 3:10-12, Romans 9:11-24.

7- Jesus tells us that no man can come to Him unless the Father draws him. John 15:16.

8- When a person who is beginning to see truth it is because God is drawing him or her to truth. Jesus said, If I will be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

9- Mankind loves his sin to much to give it up and he loves his man made religion doctrines to much because of pride mankind in his pride will never repent unless God gives him repentance to see the truth, 2 Tim. 2:25-26.

10- God in His love will have a people for Him self so in His love and will call His sheep and they will come to Him and He will lose none of them. This is God's precious promise to His people. Nothing can turn them into a false man made gospel yes he can error from time to time if he takes his eyes off the Lord and His word but God corrects His people by His word, 2 Tim. 3:16. God gives the true believer a broken and a contrite heart to want to obey His word, Psalm 51, God also gives the one who is saved the fruits of the Spirit of God, Gal. 5:22-23, the true believer has the power to walk in the Spirit the unsaved cannot they can try to counterfiet the fruit of the Spirit but the spiritual man will test the spirits to see if they are from God or not? 1 Cor. 2:10-16. I have given many verses to study over to see if these things are so or not. The unsaved who thinks they are saved will not bow down to the truth of the word of God, they will fall over and over and then they will lash out in their flesh, the word convicts the true believer when he falls and he does not stay down because God will correct him even by chastisment if need be. God chastens His own every son He corrects. The true believer always gives God the glory, hoonor, mercy, grace, in God's salvation work alone to God be all the glory great things He has done. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15.

PS- Sorry for the [caps] did not look up, lol
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
I appreciate your post, and your mature atitude,
only true believers are able to conversate,without of groudge,insults,or mock each other,
I DO REALLY LOVE ALL SINGLE BROTHERS IN CHRIST?
but very difficult is to find them in this life, Psalm 107;3-14...
wildernis wild jungle of this world make it not so simple and easy
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29152 Sep 7, 2012
I am sorry I meant to say, Student not John. I am sorry John for that mix up. Gary.
Gary wrote:
Hi John:
I am sorry but I am not sure what point your making here? Are you implying one cannot eat any meat here? Surely we know from some of the verses I have already shared that man can eat meat and it should be received with thinksgiving by prayer, in fact God even tells us that there will come a day when man will try to forbid one to marry and to abstain from meats. Now we can marry can we not? Likewise, we see in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 God tells us He created meat for mankind for our blessing we can be thnakful.
"Forbidding to mary, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creture of God IS GOOD, AND NOTHING TO BE REFUSED, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:3-5
Here we can see very plaining that God created the animals for the blessing for mankind. God hath created these to be received with thanksgiving and by prayer.
Now if you want to refrain from eatiing meat this is fine also but there is no law concerning not eating meat. There is no mention of blood at all in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 at all here, I don't know if your trying to say God means not to eat meat in these verses because it has some juice and a bit of blood in the juice? It just does not say this in these verses. Also, the verse you have shared in Isa. 48:17 has nothing to do with blood in this verse.
"Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go." Isa. 48:17
I am not sure what your trying to say to prove your points with these verses I have shown you in, 1 Tim. 4:3-5, God created this meat to be received with thanksgiving and prayer.
I thank you for sharing those verses but they show nothing of not eating meat here at all in fact, it shows the very opposite here.
Here in Isa. 48:17, God tells us He will lead His people where they should go by His word this is why God has given us His word it is the way, the truth, and the life. Thank you for your input. Gary.
<quoted text>
Student

Beavercreek, OR

#29155 Sep 8, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi John:
I am sorry but I am not sure what point your making here? Are you implying one cannot eat any meat here? Surely we know from some of the verses I have already shared that man can eat meat and it should be received with thinksgiving by prayer, in fact God even tells us that there will come a day when man will try to forbid one to marry and to abstain from meats. Now we can marry can we not? Likewise, we see in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 God tells us He created meat for mankind for our blessing we can be thnakful.
"Forbidding to mary, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creture of God IS GOOD, AND NOTHING TO BE REFUSED, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:3-5
Here we can see very plaining that God created the animals for the blessing for mankind. God hath created these to be received with thanksgiving and by prayer.
Now if you want to refrain from eatiing meat this is fine also but there is no law concerning not eating meat. There is no mention of blood at all in 1 Tim. 4:3-5 at all here, I don't know if your trying to say God means not to eat meat in these verses because it has some juice and a bit of blood in the juice? It just does not say this in these verses. Also, the verse you have shared in Isa. 48:17 has nothing to do with blood in this verse.
"Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go." Isa. 48:17
I am not sure what your trying to say to prove your points with these verses I have shown you in, 1 Tim. 4:3-5, God created this meat to be received with thanksgiving and prayer.
I thank you for sharing those verses but they show nothing of not eating meat here at all in fact, it shows the very opposite here.
Here in Isa. 48:17, God tells us He will lead His people where they should go by His word this is why God has given us His word it is the way, the truth, and the life. Thank you for your input. Gary.
<quoted text>
Hello Gary.

Let’s get back to the subject of blood transfusions. I got the feeling that you feel it OK to have them, but the “Holy Spirit” says different.(Acts 15:28, 29)

Jehovah God has never told us not to eat meat, matter of fact after the Flood, Jehovah allowed man to add flesh to his diet, saying:“Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat.”(Ge 9:3, 4)

In the Law covenant made by Jehovah with the nation of Israel, he incorporated the law given to Noah. He made it clear that “bloodguilt” was attached to anyone who ignored the procedure stipulated by God’s law even in the killing of an animal.(Le 17:3, 4) The blood of an animal to be used for food was to be poured out on the ground and covered with dust.(Le 17:13, 14) Anyone who ate blood of any sort of flesh was to be ‘cut off from among his people.’ Deliberate violation of this law regarding the sacredness of blood meant being “cut off” in death.(Le 17:10; 7:26, 27; Nu 15:30, 31)

The Israelites, as well as alien residents who took up true worship and came under the Law covenant, were obligated to live up to the lofty requirements of that Law. People of all nations were bound by the requirement at Genesis 9:3, 4, but those under the Law were held by God to a higher standard in adhering to that requirement than were foreigners and alien residents who had not become worshipers of Jehovah.

Then you brought up that there was some residual blood left in the meat after the animal was bleed.

Do you think that Jehovah God did NOT know this? Let’s not wonder around this subject of blood transfusion..
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29156 Sep 8, 2012
Hi John:

I am truly sorry but your not telling the truth here at all when you said your not frustrated just go back and re-read the post when I admitted how wrong date setting was. You complemented me on being up-front. However, when I start hitting on doctrines you are flagertly doing that is bowing down and worshiping some man made idol this just got you up-set because you do not want to repent because God first must give you repentance to see this truth and you know it is truth because I asked you time and time again do you believe it is good to bow down and worship these graven images according to the 2nd commandment of God? John, you keep turning this question around and you keep saying, what is wrong in giving God some gold and silver? John, the question was straight forward and in your frustration you could not answer this and I fully understand why according to 2 Tim. 2:25-26, God has not given you repentance yet to give you the gift of repentance John this is why I repented as soon as I seen how date setting was wrong. I sked you what makes one a biblical cult John? Again, you could not answer this because your in one John! I am truly sorry I know the truth hurts but sometime John in love we really need this. Thank you. Gary
JohnJaws wrote:
Hello Gary,
I'm not getting frustrated. Don't believe that I am for a moment.
What I am trying to get you recognise is how you managed to slide down a very slippery slop and end up in the Camping Cult. That's where your spiritual journey took you. It took you to a sinister cult that is nothing of God at all.
Red Apples posted something curious in "WSJLM?" over night Uk time.
Post reference number 456556 in that topic. This is what Red Apples said: "He's preaching a doctrine that's a mix of the "Harold Camping doctrine" (who teaches Jesus never died on the cross)"
Well if that's correct then how could you have fallen for that?
How could you have fallen for the Holy Spirit coming out of the churches as well?
Only a person who can't recognise the Holy Spirit would fall for that.
That's exactly why you would not only walk in to another cult you would start your own too.
The truth is Gary that you don't have the authority to teach yet because the Holy Spirit isn't guiding you. That truth might be tough for you to take. Sure, some things you say will be correct. Of course they will. No one who reads the Bible will get it totally wrong. It calls for discernment. When the devil tempted Eve there were truths in what he said.
You talk about the Commandments. ALL things must fall under Christ's feet is the law because God has declared it. All things. That includes all things that God has made. The whole of God's creation must come to serve him. Gold silver, diamonds, marble, the talents of mankind, the lot. All must come to serve God with love. No power can prevent it Gary. God had declared it. Almighty God had declared it.
You mention forbidding to eat meat. Lamb is meat, and God didn't forbid that. We don't need to be vegetarians. Forbidding to marry? My parents were married Gary. the Roman catholic church has never forbidden marriage. Not when we look closer it hasn't.
When Jesus came, he lived in the flesh but not to serve the flesh. He never got married. He came to serve in spirit and walked according to the spirit. That is what priests try to do. A tough calling that isn't for everyone. When priests take that vow to be Christlike, they vow not to serve the flesh but to live according to the spirit with love.
I wonder if the forbidding to marry is something still to come. Can't marry if a Christian for example.
This business of Jehovah's witnesses and blood. Jehovah's Witnesses forbid love on that issue! Those that have had blood transfusions don't become vampires. They don't develop a morbid taste for blood.
No problem in the wrong address to Student. we can all do that.
God bless you. Have a nice day.
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#29157 Sep 8, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi John:
I am truly sorry but your not telling the truth here at all when you said your not frustrated just go back and re-read the post when I admitted how wrong date setting was. You complemented me on being up-front. However, when I start hitting on doctrines you are flagertly doing that is bowing down and worshiping some man made idol this just got you up-set because you do not want to repent because God first must give you repentance to see this truth and you know it is truth because I asked you time and time again do you believe it is good to bow down and worship these graven images according to the 2nd commandment of God? John, you keep turning this question around and you keep saying, what is wrong in giving God some gold and silver? John, the question was straight forward and in your frustration you could not answer this and I fully understand why according to 2 Tim. 2:25-26, God has not given you repentance yet to give you the gift of repentance John this is why I repented as soon as I seen how date setting was wrong. I sked you what makes one a biblical cult John? Again, you could not answer this because your in one John! I am truly sorry I know the truth hurts but sometime John in love we really need this. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
now,you get Gary proper lesson
This fanatic is insultive,mocker,and Liar on the cyber space,look at his insults and cursing others on the different threads,

it is like talk between child of God and devil servant commited to spit at you,or insult you, not even knowing what your post at all?

Have blessed deay Gary
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29158 Sep 8, 2012
Hi John:

Your not reading the word or God or He has closed your eyes to these basic truth's concerning the office of elders, Bishops, deacons, and such what there qualifications are to hold this office.

1- Facts, according to 1 Tim. 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, the deacon, Bishop, elder, MUST be married, and must have children and they must be in subjection.

2- Facts, accroding to 1 Tim. 4:1-6, God gives a severe warning to those who disobey God's rules here God calls forbidding to marry doctrines of devils and seducing spirits this is a fact.

3- You can always tell a doctrine by there fruits and the doctrine of forbidding to marry has caused countless sexual abuse of the very highest kind in sexually abusing children you do not seem to be concerned about this here John why?

4- This false devilish doctrine of demons has caused so much destruction and death left behind from this evil doctrines of devils these are not my words John don't get up-set at me these are God's words.

5- You see John, what you say to me does not bother me in the slightest John because I know your not getting mad at me your angry with the law of God John now this is just a fact you have not faced John and I can go into great detail concerning the false teaching of your church John you really don't want me to go down this road John because I can blow the lid right off this church John but I am not interested in slaming any church but sharing what God's words declares John this is why I am sharing these verses with you that tells me accoding to those chapters and verses where and what I am saying is wrong according to the word not what you think John this really does not mean a hill of beans what we think John but what saith the Lord? This is what is important John.

6- Now God put the office of a deacon, Bishop, elder, and so on into two chapters so we do not miss this John because it is very important and we can see when we disobey the word of God the utter horror stories that are coming out of these false man made doctrines. John, please take the time to read those verses and pray aboout them that God will give you obediance to obey His word according to 2 Tim. 2:25-26. John, this is why you will hear me share the word of God with people here because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God John, Romans 10:17. Thank you. Gary
JohnJaws wrote:
Hello again Gary,
in my above reply. I stated this: "Forbidding to marry? My parents were married Gary."
Then I jumped ahead in my rush of thoughts and stated this: The Roman catholic church has never forbidden marriage. Not when we look closer it hasn't.
What I intended to say was this: "Forbidding to marry? My parents were married Gary. Their parents were married before them and their parents were married before them, and so on throughout the centuries. The Roman catholic church has never forbidden marriage. It has always regarded marriage as a sacrament this is ordained by God.
Marriage is a curious thing in a way. We stand there and openly declare our love for another. Love is actually something that God commands. We make a lifelong commitment. When a divorce occurs, one party is openly confessing that they don't really love the one that they married. So a unity of love can't have been there in the first place. No real marriage. We know that God is love. When two hearts are involved can a marriage be true when the love is in one heart only? One party may be deceiving themselves and the one they are marrying. God knows when the vows is taken.
Oh dear me. I think I have just answered my own question. When it comes to my own marriage, I have often wondered why I have been blessed in this marriage with children I don't deserve. How have we managed to raise the children the way we have? The love in a family begins with the parents.
I'll leave it there.
God bless you.
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29159 Sep 8, 2012
Hi Dr:

I pray for these dear souls because I know just how strong this snare is, I was once insnared by this false cult at one time, but by the grace, mercy, and love of God He opened my understanding a little here and a little there concerning these man made doctrines. Now I know we all only know in part and we dclare in part but one thing that we should know is what is the true foundation of the nature of salvation this is what I have been sharing with John for some time and he could not show me according to the word where I am wrong, in fact, it seemed like he was starting to see truth but I know as the word declares Satan can come and snatch that word that was sown in some and it just drys up and falls away for some according to the parable of the sower of the seed. I truly hope the very highest good for John and all here and that is that they also may be set free from the bondage of a man made teaching. Now the sad thing is this, when you have a falty foundation of the nature of salvation as these churches are teaching today when the truth comes along it does not sound like the truth but it sounds like error because they have had a steady dose of this poison of a false man made do it your self help self gospel sad to say.

This is why when you show one the most basic of truth as idol worship for example, anyone would think after showing them the command of God that they would see this but we have to remember the Bible is a spiritual book and only those that are born of the word and the Spirit will see truth. Now the Bible is not like lets say, a math book you can show all, 1 + 1 = 2. This is just a basic fact. Now when we show one of the ten commandments and the 2nd one is forbidding to bow down to these graven images one would think surely they will understand this? No, not always because the Bible is a spiritual book and when these dear souls have been ingrained with this false teaching even the most basic of truth's are hidden from them unless God steps in and shows them and when He does it is just so amazing it is a miracle when God saves one this is the great miricle that is taken place today by the mercy of God. Now this may not be meant for John but another can read this and God could open up their understanding by His word. All this is all the work of God so when I lay something out as the teaching of false idol worshiping I know the word will step on toes and that some will lash out at me but they really don't understand that they are lashing out at God Almighty, His word not me so how could I be upset with them? You see their problem is not with me Dr it is with God Himself. I truly care for these dear souls and pray for them after I share the word with them, I only want the very highest good for them and they do not see this. Now they did not see this when they were killing my Lord Jesus said, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Stephen said almost the same thing when the unsaved religious ones were stoning Stephen when he exposed their false man made gospel did they not? So, we should never be surprised if they are acting in their heart the same way, Jesus said, if you say you love God and hate your brother how dwelleth the love of God in you? Your like a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life in him, this is why I close many times with 1 John 3:13-15. Maybe I will share this one day Lord willing. In the mean time we should be praying for one another. You see the real reason why I share this truth is love rejoiceth in all things. Thank you. Gary
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
now,you get Gary proper lesson
This fanatic is insultive,mocker,and Liar on the cyber space,look at his insults and cursing others on the different threads,
it is like talk between child of God and devil servant commited to spit at you,or insult you, not even knowing what your post at all?
Have blessed deay Gary
Dr Shrink

Baltimore, MD

#29160 Sep 8, 2012
Gary wrote:
Hi Dr:
I pray for these dear souls because I know just how strong this snare is, I was once insnared by this false cult at one time, but by the grace, mercy, and love of God He opened my understanding a little here and a little there concerning these man made doctrines. Now I know we all only know in part and we dclare in part but one thing that we should know is what is the true foundation of the nature of salvation this is what I have been sharing with John for some time and he could not show me according to the word where I am wrong, in fact, it seemed like he was starting to see truth but I know as the word declares Satan can come and snatch that word that was sown in some and it just drys up and falls away for some according to the parable of the sower of the seed. I truly hope the very highest good for John and all here and that is that they also may be set free from the bondage of a man made teaching. Now the sad thing is this, when you have a falty foundation of the nature of salvation as these churches are teaching today when the truth comes along it does not sound like the truth but it sounds like error because they have had a steady dose of this poison of a false man made do it your self help self gospel sad to say.
This is why when you show one the most basic of truth as idol worship for example, anyone would think after showing them the command of God that they would see this but we have to remember the Bible is a spiritual book and only those that are born of the word and the Spirit will see truth. Now the Bible is not like lets say, a math book you can show all, 1 + 1 = 2. This is just a basic fact. Now when we show one of the ten commandments and the 2nd one is forbidding to bow down to these graven images one would think surely they will understand this? No, not always because the Bible is a spiritual book and when these dear souls have been ingrained with this false teaching even the most basic of truth's are hidden from them unless God steps in and shows them and when He does it is just so amazing it is a miracle when God saves one this is the I truly care for these dear souls and pray for them after I share the word with them, I only want the very highest good for them and they do not see this. Now they did not see this when they were killing my Lord Jesus said, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Stephen said almost the same thing when the unsaved religious ones were stoning Stephen when he exposed their false man made gospel did they not? So, we should never be surprised if they are acting in their heart the same way, Jesus said, if you say you love God and hate your brother how dwelleth the love of God in you? Your like a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life in him, this is why I close many times with 1 John 3:13-15. Maybe I will share this one day Lord willing. In the mean time we should be praying for one another. You see the real reason why I share this truth is love rejoiceth in all things. Thank you. Gary
<quoted text>
fully agree with your post gary

I realy don't want to be between two of you,
many times,maybe each day, i think about this John poster,
it look like he fights between 2 forces inside of his beliefs,

he enter topic discuss with you true Gospel, but same time,secong evil force completly twist whole sense of his spiritual desires,

long ago,I used to have such war,inside of me, my political orientation,and half atheistic nature it was 36 years ago,
as priority John and like him,suppose to never forget Joel 2;12-13
therefore also now, saith the Lord,run ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART,AND WITH FASTING AND WEEPING AND WITH MOURNINGS

AND RENDER YOUR HEART ,AND NOT YOU GARMENTS,AND TURN UNTO THE LORD,YOUR GOD;

FOR HE IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL,SLOW TO ANGER,AND OF GREAT KINDNESS,AND REPENTETH HIM OF THE EVIL.

Thank you gary for your post,and mature spiritual senses,it helps a lot
Gary

Buffalo, NY

#29161 Sep 8, 2012
Hi Dr.:

Those are very encourging verses you have shared, God tells us to render our hearts not our garments. God does not need some show or out warnd sacaifice here He wants a heart that wants to obey His word the sacrifices of God are a broken and a contrie heart, Psalm 51, the word tells us that the Lord has to give us a heart of flesh if not we will still have a heart of stone, this is one of the verses John had shared with us here when I had trouble thinking off the top of my head where it was it was in Ezek. 36:24-29.

You see Dr, one can read over and over a verse for many years but until God says it time for us to understand this verse from the heart we will not see it or truly understand the true meaning of a verse in fact, it is truly impossible to really understand truth from the heart unless God gives us a heart of flesh as He said He does once He saves a person.

"A new heart also WILL I give you, and a new spirirt WILL I put within you: and I WILL take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I WILL give you an heart of flesh. And I WILL put MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall KEEP MY judgments AND DO THEM." Ezeak. 36:26-27

Here we see five times in these few verses God says that I WILL He must do all the work He must put a new spirit within us, He must cause us to walk in His judgments this means to keep His laws , He must take away that stony heart we all have before God saves us, He must give us a heart of flesh meaning a true heart to seek after the Lord of all truth. We see in these verses it is all the work of God in the salvation of God and when man enters into this on their own without the new heart, without the new Spirit you will come up with all kinds of man made inventions as idol worship and many more man made doctines of man and doctrines of demons this is what God calls those who disobey His judgments like 1 Tim. 4:1-8. Mankind will want you to forbid things that God says it is good they are saying it is not who will we believe God or man? This is the test and God had started to put testing programs up right from the very start in the garden with the tree of knowledge of good and evil a very exotic name God even gives this tree and what happens? Man has failed the test and ever since God puts testing programs up to see if we will serve Him or man?

Now, John can try to explain in his own way but it will not be biblical unless GOD GIVES JOHN A HEART OF FLESH AND A NEW SPIRIT HE PUTS WITHIN HIM AND IF GOD DOES THIS YOU WILL SEE JOHN SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

Gary, I was looking at this verse in Exodus 20:4-5 and Psalm 115:1-8, Rev. 9:20, and I started to see just how deadly this idol graven image worshipng is really all about I am seeing by the mercy of God that He hates this form of worship and from now on I want nothing to do with this. Then soon God will show him more and more truth this is how it all starts. God can do this. Pray for one another. Gary
Dr Shrink wrote:
<quoted text>
fully agree with your post gary
I realy don't want to be between two of you,
many times,maybe each day, i think about this John poster,
it look like he fights between 2 forces inside of his beliefs,
he enter topic discuss with you true Gospel, but same time,secong evil force completly twist whole sense of his spiritual desires,
long ago,I used to have such war,inside of me, my political orientation,and half atheistic nature it was 36 years ago,
as priority John and like him,suppose to never forget Joel 2;12-13
therefore also now, saith the Lord,run ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART,AND WITH FASTING AND WEEPING AND WITH MOURNINGS
AND RENDER YOUR HEART ,AND NOT YOU GARMENTS,AND TURN UNTO THE LORD,YOUR GOD;
FOR HE IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL,SLOW TO ANGER,AND OF GREAT KINDNESS,AND REPENTETH HIM OF THE EVIL.
Thank you gary for your post,and mature spiritual senses,it helps a lot
Food for thought

Prattville, AL

#29165 Sep 9, 2012
Ahem: ISLAM!!

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