Bush is a hero

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180409 Jul 21, 2014
Strength and Honor wrote:
I just noticed that there is a thread called, "Do you enjoy seeing your sister nude" and then they and then they added "/naked?".
OMG! And it has 324 posts.
Welcome to Topix, folks.
Haha.

There's a lot of wacky threads out there...

God is great
Beer is good
People are crazy

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180410 Jul 21, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
I know how their ancestors got here.
Then you shouldn't question why a continent is used instead of a nationality.

The article you linked to was interesting, and I agree with it in large part. It's a thought process very much like the opinion a (late) best friend of mine expressed 25 years ago or more.

That changes nothing. To question why a continent is used, to question what someone means by 'Americans of all races', demonstrates a remarkable ignorance of American history - not just about race, but about the history of race and ethnicity in this country. It reveals a mindset using a romanticized, idealized version of assimilation, as if it was one single, simple process with no variations between the different cultures that came here at different times.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#180411 Jul 21, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Then you shouldn't question why a continent is used instead of a nationality.
.
I disagree. I think this is where the real conversation begins. They aren't called African-Americans just because of how their ancestors got here. I think in great part it's what we DIDN'T do for them and what we did TO them after they were freed and right up to present day that triggered the term African-American. It's a term of endearment to them. A way to feel special, Willie. A phrase for them to use to be a part of something that WE didn't provide.
Every liberty they were given, every equal opportunity they were given, every crumb they were tossed came in fits and starts and amid protesting. They were kept out of this restaurant and that school and that bathroom said NO NEGROS and that water fountain said WHITES ONLY. You want to know why the need to identify so much with their continent of origin? Because we never made them feel at home, Willie. We never fully assimilated them. We never welcomed them as part of the family. We never got around to making them feel like Americans and the segue to this,(fast forward) the exact same thing will happen with the triple/quadruple number of Mexicans pouring in here if we don't think this thing through and do it right this time. Guaranteed.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180412 Jul 21, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
I disagree. I think this is where the real conversation begins. They aren't called African-Americans just because of how their ancestors got here. I think in great part it's what we DIDN'T do for them and what we did TO them after they were freed and right up to present day that triggered the term African-American. It's a term of endearment to them. A way to feel special, Willie. A phrase for them to use to be a part of something that WE didn't provide.
Every liberty they were given, every equal opportunity they were given, every crumb they were tossed came in fits and starts and amid protesting. They were kept out of this restaurant and that school and that bathroom said NO NEGROS and that water fountain said WHITES ONLY. You want to know why the need to identify so much with their continent of origin? Because we never made them feel at home, Willie. We never fully assimilated them. We never welcomed them as part of the family. We never got around to making them feel like Americans and the segue to this,(fast forward) the exact same thing will happen with the triple/quadruple number of Mexicans pouring in here if we don't think this thing through and do it right this time. Guaranteed.
Excellent post, Lyndi. Really.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180413 Jul 21, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Then you shouldn't question why a continent is used instead of a nationality.
The article you linked to was interesting, and I agree with it in large part. It's a thought process very much like the opinion a (late) best friend of mine expressed 25 years ago or more.
That changes nothing. To question why a continent is used, to question what someone means by 'Americans of all races', demonstrates a remarkable ignorance of American history - not just about race, but about the history of race and ethnicity in this country. It reveals a mindset using a romanticized, idealized version of assimilation, as if it was one single, simple process with no variations between the different cultures that came here at different times.
Notice that when I asked what was meant by that, I was offered a nationality, not a race.

To say "African-American is black" is an absolutely false statement, unless you want to think that Egyptians and Libyans and white people all born in Africa are all black.

I agree that they want to be called African-American so that they finally have an identity in America. I support that idea and I would like it if more people recognized it has reality, instead of thinking that African-American means black.

Thoughts?

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180414 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then, I gotta ask. If a person is a US born citizen, why aren't they called North American-American?
Or why are Brazilians that become US citizens not called South American-Americans.
Read that link, the manhattan project one, it's an eye opener.
I read (and pretty much agree with) the Manhattan Project article, although I can't say it was particularly eye opening or new.

Doesn't change a thing. Your initial question about the meaning of 'Americans of all races', like the 'question' above, was silly.

To put it another way, if you really 'gotta ask', then I'd suggest you study American history - or you don't want an answer, you want an intellectual circle jerk.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#180416 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm American.
That's my nationality.
What's your race?

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180417 Jul 21, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. I think this is where the real conversation begins. They aren't called African-Americans just because of how their ancestors got here. I think in great part it's what we DIDN'T do for them and what we did TO them after they were freed and right up to present day that triggered the term African-American. It's a term of endearment to them. A way to feel special, Willie. A phrase for them to use to be a part of something that WE didn't provide.
Every liberty they were given, every equal opportunity they were given, every crumb they were tossed came in fits and starts and amid protesting. They were kept out of this restaurant and that school and that bathroom said NO NEGROS and that water fountain said WHITES ONLY. You want to know why the need to identify so much with their continent of origin? Because we never made them feel at home, Willie. We never fully assimilated them. We never welcomed them as part of the family. We never got around to making them feel like Americans and the segue to this,(fast forward) the exact same thing will happen with the triple/quadruple number of Mexicans pouring in here if we don't think this thing through and do it right this time. Guaranteed.
I think what you are saying is correct - but incomplete.

The fact is that absent DNA testing, many black Americans will never know a country of origin the way most white people do. That's a fact, an irrefutable one.

How directly the experience of black Americans and that of Hispanic immigrants will relate is uncertain, at least to me. I'm not entirely sure the racial barriers are the same, and racial barriers are another irrefutable fact in American history.

Here's what I know. I grew up in St. Louis, as a child spending half my time in the city itself and the rest out in a suburb. In the city there were still whole neighborhoods of ethnicity - German, Polish, Italian(still there), and Irish are the ones I'm familiar with. I grew up hearing how my great grandparents learned to speak English from their children, including my grandmother, who attended a bilingual school until her last year or so of high school.

The Polish neighborhood is now black, btw. One of the German neighborhoods is now Hispanic, another Bosnian, a third Asian. Some of the people who settle in those neighborhoods stay right there. Others, particularly the children, become more and more American, more and more assimilated, and move out. Any number of the friends

The other day I my physical trainer (a year and a half old coonhound) was out walking through a local park here in Lafayette, and we went past a Quinceañera party in one of the pavilions. One of the men, about my age, wanted to pet the dog. His daughter stood by and translated for me.

Welcome to America ... same as it ever was.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180418 Jul 21, 2014
Should have finished my sentence(s)...

Any number of the friends of my daughters, who all went to St. Louis City magnet schools, grew up speaking a veritable babel of languages - and they're doing the same second generation process that countless others have done before.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180419 Jul 21, 2014
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
What's your race?
Human mostly.

I share genes with a couch potato, like 18%.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180420 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice that when I asked what was meant by that, I was offered a nationality, not a race.
To say "African-American is black" is an absolutely false statement, unless you want to think that Egyptians and Libyans and white people all born in Africa are all black.
I agree that they want to be called African-American so that they finally have an identity in America. I support that idea and I would like it if more people recognized it has reality, instead of thinking that African-American means black.
Thoughts?
Given the history of the United States of America, I don't think it is absolutely false.

Unclear, MAYBE, if you over intellectualize it ... but not the only unclear term in the English language.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#180421 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Human mostly.
I share genes with a couch potato, like 18%.
Funny!

Then I'm guessing you're not buying the whole...

He's a racist...
She's a racist...
They're a racist...

Wouldn't you want to be a racist too... thingy... eh?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180422 Jul 21, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Given the history of the United States of America, I don't think it is absolutely false.
Unclear, MAYBE, if you over intellectualize it ... but not the only unclear term in the English language.
Interesting. What's your take on the following, is it correct?

"African-American" refers to descendants of enslaved Black people who are from the United States. The reason we use an entire continent (Africa) instead of a country (e.g.,“Italian-American”) is because slave masters purposefully obliterated tribal ancestry, language and family units in order to destroy the spirit of the people they enslaved, thereby making it impossible for their descendants to trace their history prior to being born into slavery. This was all in an effort to prevent enslaved people from organizing and revolting their bondage."

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180423 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. What's your take on the following, is it correct?
"African-American" refers to descendants of enslaved Black people who are from the United States. The reason we use an entire continent (Africa) instead of a country (e.g.,“Italian-American”) is because slave masters purposefully obliterated tribal ancestry, language and family units in order to destroy the spirit of the people they enslaved, thereby making it impossible for their descendants to trace their history prior to being born into slavery. This was all in an effort to prevent enslaved people from organizing and revolting their bondage."
Yes, I think it's correct, with the qualifier that in the English language words and phrases can have more than one meaning.

So ... because of the circumstances by which the ancestors of many black Americans got here, African American can refer to them. The term can also be used in a broader sense to describe Americans who come from the countries on the African continent.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180424 Jul 21, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
Yes, I think it's correct, with the qualifier that in the English language words and phrases can have more than one meaning.
So ... because of the circumstances by which the ancestors of many black Americans got here, African American can refer to them. The term can also be used in a broader sense to describe Americans who come from the countries on the African continent.
Hmmm makes sense. That's why people with a known familial history from Africa won't call themselves African-American?

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#180425 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmm makes sense. That's why people with a known familial history from Africa won't call themselves African-American?
I think that depends. A phrase can have different meanings, you know?

A white South African might not. A black person, even one with traceable African roots might, and I don't think there would be anything illegitimate about it.

Gee ... is there anybody you had in mind?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180426 Jul 21, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
I think that depends. A phrase can have different meanings, you know?
A white South African might not. A black person, even one with traceable African roots might, and I don't think there would be anything illegitimate about it.
Gee ... is there anybody you had in mind?
No, I was speaking in general terms only.

But you're right, it does depend on each individual.

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#180427 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I was speaking in general terms only.
But you're right, it does depend on each individual.
It is difficult to hate an idea. That requires a certain intellectual discipline and a slightly obsessive, sick mind. There aren’t too many of those. It’s much easier to hate someone with a recognizable face whom we can blame for everything that makes us feel uncomfortable. It doesn’t have to be an individual character. It could be a nation, a race, a group...anything.”
&#8213; Carlos Ruiz Zafón

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#180428 Jul 21, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:

It is difficult to hate an idea. That requires a certain intellectual discipline and a slightly obsessive, sick mind. There aren’t too many of those. It’s much easier to hate someone with a recognizable face whom we can blame for everything that makes us feel uncomfortable. It doesn’t have to be an individual character. It could be a nation, a race, a group...anything.”
Carlos Ruiz Zafón
Wow. Powerful and true words. I'm learning, I'm getting it.

You know, a few months ago I would not have been able to have the conversation that was had on this thread today. I was looking through ignorant, racist eyes that wouldn't have allowed me to. You know what I mean...

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#180429 Jul 21, 2014
Proxy Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Powerful and true words. I'm learning, I'm getting it.
You know, a few months ago I would not have been able to have the conversation that was had on this thread today. I was looking through ignorant, racist eyes that wouldn't have allowed me to. You know what I mean...
I do.

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