Bush is a hero

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#178551 Jun 19, 2014
Sorry for the dupe. Goodnight all.
uidiotRaceMakeWo rldpeace

United States

#178552 Jun 19, 2014

William Blum, Freeing the World to Death, p123

The United States had been the supplier to Iraq of much of the source biological and other materials and equipment Saddam's scientists required to create biological and chemical warfare programs...
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178553 Jun 19, 2014
lisw wrote:
Sorry for the dupe. Goodnight all.
Woof! WOOF WOOF! Woooof!:)
common sense

Eden Prairie, MN

#178554 Jun 19, 2014
Strength and Honor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a good article from the Wall Street Journal, CS. It shows a picture of a chemical weapons factory. If he had no weapons cache why would he need a factory that produced them?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremis...
I like your point about him not having the weapons but him acting like he did. That's exactly what he did do.
I read it, but don't subscribe so read about it on couple other news sites. It seems ironic if not suspicious that the facility known to have produced chemical weapons HAS chemical weapons stockpiles still there but the US did not find them while searching for them when we looked for them while occupying the country to justify the reasons for invasion in the first place.......especially when it appears to have been known by US intel for producing chem weapons during Iran Iraq war. It sounds like a bad joke that we now have some sort of evidence confirming stockpiles after withdrawing.

I guess time will tell how true story really is, most articles I checked all use WSJ as the source of the report

Since: Nov 08

Chicago, IL

#178555 Jun 19, 2014
HipGnozizzz wrote:
<quoted text>Like I said before, I sure don't have any inside information. But it was mighty telling to me that the Bush admin closed-door full-court global press couldn't convince other nations that invading Iraq and unseating Hussein was a necessity, and in fact was a mistake. You're talking about chem weapons that were used over a decade before. How did we know they had them then? Because we facilitated Hussein getting them, a decade before that, you know, back when he was a good guy in the fight against extremism. There is no mystery about what happened to them outside of conspiracy circles - they deteriorated with age and nobody was giving him new.
On the other hand, Rumsfeld said he knew right where they were.
But they weren't. He was wrong.
And let's don't forget - the Bush admin talking points briefly raised the specter of a "mushroom cloud". That ain't chemical, that's nuclear.
So that kinda pokes a hole in the idea that it was about chemical weapons. It was about utilizing terminology designed to "shock and awe" a skeptical populace into supporting a predetermined filibuster campaign.
Finally, if we're going to read between the lines and speculate thereon - if it was about WMD, then why, oh why, on Invasion Day, with months spent selling, planning, and build-up, WHY was there about a dozen personnel specifically tasked with finding the depots? I mean, this would be a commander's nightmare, wouldn't it? To have a desperate tyrant unleash his WMD on his forces? Almost 200 "identified" depots, or possibilities, and you have a dozen troops tasked to find them? Check back and see what Maj Gen Spider Marks had to say about that, since he believed what he was told (sold), and as a conscientious commander, was mighty stressed about it, since he really did "support the troops" and all that.
It looks more to me like his dirty dozen was a Rumsfeld/Cheney afterthought, as in, "Oh yeah, we have to have somebody look like they're looking for WMD, don't we?"
It ain't nothin' wrong with being wrong. What's wrong is when in our hubris we fail to face it and learn from it. The short lesson is, don't follow "leaders", and watch the parking meters.
Great reply, Hip. Thanks. I did a little research and so far I have been unable to find where we actually gave them WMDs. BUT, during the Iran/Iraq war we DID know that he would use them on the Iranians. One article also said that we gave them money to develop his weapons infrastructure and we gave them "materials" whatever that means. I just scanned a few articles because I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I'll take some time and see. It's something I'd like to know.

By the way, I wasn't in favor of going into Iraq. My nephew was a Marine airman who went over there during the first war. I advised him not to join because all signs pointed to a war in the Middle East, but the recruiters got him as soon as he got out of high school.
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178556 Jun 19, 2014
let learn some ugly US war history of Empire of deceptions..., that not be taught in academia, for very good reasons.... Bhahaahahaha

Ellen Ray and William H. Schaap, CAQ 1999
CoverAction, edited by Ellen Ray and William H. Schaap, 2003, p17

The United States has employed biological weapons for 200 years, from smallpox in the blankets of Native Americans to spreading plagues in Cuba; from chemical weapons like mustard gas to cripple and kill in World War I to Agent Orange to defoliate Vietnam—and to create a generation of deformed children. It is the only nation that has dropped nuclear bombs and one that now makes, uses, and sells depleted uranium weapons...

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#178557 Jun 19, 2014
Strength and Honor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a good article from the Wall Street Journal, CS. It shows a picture of a chemical weapons factory. If he had no weapons cache why would he need a factory that produced them?
http://online.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremis...
I like your point about him not having the weapons but him acting like he did. That's exactly what he did do.
That's a great headline consistent with the current owners of the Wall Street Journal.

Everybody knows he had a weapons cache and used them during and after the Iran War. That facility is part of that. According to the CIA in 2007, there were one or two buildings remaining of what had been the epicenter of Iraq's chemical weapons programs prior to the Gulf War. The CIA document about the facility is at

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-r...

It's doubtful there is anything useful there. I say that based on the destruction resulting from two wars, ongoing destruction by the Iraqis and the UN between the wars, and the looting that took place before the US got around to occupying the facility after the invasion.

I'd like to say I was confident that the site was cleaned up and rendered harmless after we did occupy it, but I can't.
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178558 Jun 19, 2014
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
That milquetoast horse's adze in the WH is to blame (IMO). It reared up when Barry backed off the "Red Line" in Syria. Now with the impending elections and him sinking deeper & deeper in the domestic do-do, he'll do just about ANYthing to keep from riling up his left wing base.
IINM, ISIS is made up mostly of former very angry Ba'athist Sunnis, who are so savagely ruthless, even members of al Qaeda are turning into shrinking violets. These goons have brutally murdered 1000's of Iraqi military, police, and anyone else they don't like. They've stolen half a billion $$ from Iraqi banks from Mosul to Khalis, amassed high-tech weapons left behind for the Iraqis by the US, threatened major Iraqi oil fields, and are about to take over Bagdad Airport.
After his golf & fund-raising hitch here in CA, Obama is "holding meetings" to see what options are available to him.
Did you now! Research this , from Youtube video its A Senior moment for our Sec of State Hillary clinton even Pronounced that our US had grown by supported / financed/armed Alqueda !
common sense

Eden Prairie, MN

#178559 Jun 19, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>That's a great headline consistent with the current owners of the Wall Street Journal.
Everybody knows he had a weapons cache and used them during and after the Iran War. That facility is part of that. According to the CIA in 2007, there were one or two buildings remaining of what had been the epicenter of Iraq's chemical weapons programs prior to the Gulf War. The CIA document about the facility is at
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-r...
It's doubtful there is anything useful there. I say that based on the destruction resulting from two wars, ongoing destruction by the Iraqis and the UN between the wars, and the looting that took place before the US got around to occupying the facility after the invasion.
I'd like to say I was confident that the site was cleaned up and rendered harmless after we did occupy it, but I can't.
I remember during the search for WMD in Iraq I was watching fox news, Sean hannity cited the large stockpiles of guns and ammo as evidence of weapons of mass destruction, a claim he never dare repeat these days in this country when considering his audience.
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178560 Jun 19, 2014

Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, 2000,
American Dynasty, Kevin Phillips, p245

The United States has been busy arming opponents in ongoing conflicts - Iran and Iraq, Greece and Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel, and China and Taiwan...

Saddam Hussein, the number one "rogue" leader of the 1990s, was during the 1980s simply an outstanding customer with an almost limitless line of credit because of his country's oil reserves.
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178561 Jun 19, 2014
uidiotRaceMakeWorldpeace wrote:
<quoted text>Because you don't have and intelligent counter /facts to oppose ... AS some of intelligent posters agree and some disagree with me on the debates.
ADD! And look WWW , i don't have any Entourages like Eight ball, USA-!--- they all warring meatheat jarhead trolls!
uidiotRACEMAWORL DPEACE

United States

#178562 Jun 19, 2014
Random Quotation
CRITICAL THINKER

a searchable database of quotations
from hundreds of books and articles
challenging conventional wisdom

author/source:
quotation:

George Shulz

The Bush Agenda
Invading the World, One Economy at a Time
by Antonia Juhasz, p183

No other dictator today matches his [Saddam Hussein] record of war, oppression, use of weapons of mass destruction and continuing contemptuous violation of international law.

[And yet, for more than a decade, Shultz, Bush the first, Reagan, Baker, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Kissinger, Eagleburger, and other U.S. corporate and government CEOs were content to supply this very same dictator with weapons, money, goods, and services.
common sense

Kansas City, MO

#178563 Jun 19, 2014
common sense wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember during the search for WMD in Iraq I was watching fox news, Sean hannity cited the large stockpiles of guns and ammo as evidence of weapons of mass destruction, a claim he never dare repeat these days in this country when considering his audience.
Before anyone gets too upset about my post, I'll add that he was arguing about whether saddam had wmd with his guest when he made that remark, he laughed when he said it, I think it was the lawyer in him looking for some type of justification for the invasion during a heated exchange absent any solid evidence.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#178564 Jun 19, 2014
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Don't even try it. You know dam well I did not call you a racist I said it was a racist thing to say that abuse is a part of their culture. It's as bad as saying that criminality is part of the African american culture. the good muslims has to do with Obama's insistence that radical is not the norm and I believe that too, but now all of the sudden several of you are saying that's just who they are in the Arab countries. Well I don't believe that. I spoke with a man in New Mexico who left Afghanistan many years ago. It sure wasn't who he was. You are so set on knowing it all you just don't hear what you sound like. Now you're trying to alter what you said.
I do have a suggestion for you. Along with all the books you read, I might give you a list that I believe will enlighten you as to what I'm talking about. You can't just stick with one kind of book.
Oh, so you didn't call me a racist, you just said I was saying racist things. That makes perfect sense ... and explains why you dragged not only Obama, but THE prototypical Afghan (who you happened to meet) into this, and since he's not like that there can be no truth to what I'm saying.

To put it another way, why the hell would you even THINK anything I said was meant to characterize any individual Afghani, let alone one who had emigrated to the US? I can't wrap my head around why you would think that - or how you think ONE person's story (no matter how well you like it) exemplifies an entire people.

There's 30 million Afghan citizen in the country, a diaspora of 5-6 million spread out all over the world, about a hundred thousand of which are here in the United States, according to Wikipedia. That's way too many people to generalize about. They are not all Taliban. They are not all fundamentalists.

That changes exactly nothing. It refutes nothing I say. All you have to do is follow the news, and examples of what I'm referring to happen every day somewhere (many places, regrettably) in all kinds of places in the third world.

Just so we're clear ... don't confuse the fact that I say there are cultural aspects to the Taliban (Iraqi, Iranian, whoever) treatment of women with somehow APPROVING of it, or finding it acceptable or excusable. It's not, by any stretch of the imagination.

Here's the problem I have with this 'well, I know a guy and he's not like that' stuff.

I've known a couple Palestinian immigrants at least enough to talk to semi-regularly - not that we were best friends or anything. One owned a corner store in St. Louis (and his daughter went to school with my oldest); the other a coffee house in outstate Missouri.

The coffee house owner, who had the windows of both his shops broken out after 9/11, made regular trips back to Palestine where he worked with a group (which included Israelis and Palestinians) trying to bridge the gap between the two peoples.

The shop owner ... well, he was apparently involved in all kinds of mean nasty terror stuff, leading up to the honor killing of his daughter, the murder of whom was caught on tape.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/28/us/terror-a...

So ... you tell me ... which one was the real Palestinian, the prototypical one that refutes anything I don't want to hear?

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#178565 Jun 19, 2014
common sense wrote:
<quoted text>
The ISI.....now joined by Syrian sunni militants forming ISIS, are funded by Saudi's no less. Our addiction to mideast oil is costing us face, blood and treasure.
No surprise. The 9/11 hijackers came from SA, as did UBL. These camel humpers just hate that Americans dare to actually walk on their sacred sand.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#178566 Jun 20, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed, millions are struggling.
That's why I favor an immediate, substantial increase in the minimum wage.
How about you?
"Bad Bob doesn't do humor."

"Things are tough in Bakersfield."
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#178570 Jun 20, 2014
Strength and Honor wrote:
<quoted text>
Great reply, Hip. Thanks. I did a little research and so far I have been unable to find where we actually gave them WMDs. BUT, during the Iran/Iraq war we DID know that he would use them on the Iranians. One article also said that we gave them money to develop his weapons infrastructure and we gave them "materials" whatever that means. I just scanned a few articles because I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I'll take some time and see. It's something I'd like to know.
Right, that's why I said "facilitated". It was in our interest at the time relative to supporting his war with Iran.
Strength and Honor wrote:
<quoted text>By the way, I wasn't in favor of going into Iraq. My nephew was a Marine airman who went over there during the first war. I advised him not to join because all signs pointed to a war in the Middle East, but the recruiters got him as soon as he got out of high school.
Then you know how maddening it was to try and voice a question, much less opposition. We were jeered and shushed and told we were unpatriotic and didn't "support the troops" and all that hogwash. This ain't about, "HaHa, we were right!" We as a people have to learn from this or be "doomed" to repeat it again and again. We have to stop rationalizing and back-filling our story to match the unfolding facts. We have to be honest with ourselves, admit we as a nation screwed the pooch, and grow from our mistakes. Today the same people who were so wrong about invading Iraq want to opine vehemently about what will happen next, as if they have any credibility at all. Like Powell said before the invasion, "If we invade Iraq, we're going to own it."
HasBhaRAT Trolls Fixers

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#178572 Jun 20, 2014
-Eight Ball- wrote:
<quoted text>Now you have done it! You have done gone and made Ma and Pa mad. I new it was gonna be trouble, picking on that Somali pirate kid and all.
Hey you fcking CHOCFACE Hillbilly nincompoop you continue to be the sharpest illiterate F*CKWIT nife in the drawer.

Get your Ma and Pa HasBhaRAT controllers to pay for elementary ESL spelling and grammar lessons for you, DumbASS ignorant little Too Gay Paki Muslim troll.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#178575 Jun 20, 2014
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>I can't believe you are saying this. The Taliban is not a culture. They swooped in like vultures after the Ussr and warlords tore Afghanistan apart. To say that murder and rape and abuse are part of the culture is one of the most racist things I've ever heard. It's like believing that everyone but the fundamentalists are going to hell is part of our culture. I thought we thought that there were good muslims.
As far as making assumptions, perhaps I did but I hear it all the time, "I want what I want as a woman and I'm not worried about other women."
Racist, it? Well, I know as well as anyone here how easily you toss that around. It's ok, I've learned it's just your way of lashing out and derailing a discussion.

The core question is NOT, "is the Taliban a culture". The question is why are women treated this way, and that does arise out of a cultural view of women. Women all across the Mideast and Asia are relegated to a second class status, and even in the most benign of settings, that is a short slippery slope to depredations against their person. You want American anecdotes? OK, how about the middle-aged Pakistani couple we saw in the buffet restaurant. Once they sat down, the husband never moved again, as his wife went to retrieve anything he desired from the buffet, and that was very likely an otherwise caring relationship, WITHIN that culture. Overseas - well, surely you've read of the courageous Indian girls, and now again just this week in Pakistan (on our news) who dare to speak out about the treatment of women, and their lives become in jeopardy, NOT from any Taliban, but from their community. How about China's one-child policy that results in the deaths of so many female babies? How about the debasement of women and girls in the thriving tourist sex trade in SE Asia? As we've seen, treating women as chattel or worse, ain't no anomaly devised by the Taliban. In varying degrees, this view of women is endemic all across the region.

Don't go for the Easy Button so quickly, lisw. Don't toss out "racist" just because you disagree, or in this case, are apparently ignorant of a cultural reality.

Finally, of course, we always have to bring ourselves back to original points. Mine was wondering just how we "doomed" the women of Afghanistan. You've skipped around that one like one of Beyonce's backup dancers, minus the glittery costume.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#178576 Jun 20, 2014
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Cattiness is contagious I see.
It's a game lisw, because it certainly ain't relevant.
Don't let anybody tell you different.

Take it in stride!

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