Bush is a hero
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#175728 Mar 11, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>What's that I hear?
Was that the mutterings of an east coast elite dismissing the views of someone they don't agree with because they live in fly-over country?
No, that couldn't be. I'm sure there's a valid reason for mentioning where she lives.
Wonder what would happen if a liberal did that?
Hmmmmm ...
Don't overthink it, Willie. If you'd rather listen to the onslaught of JMO's from the white girl in Oklahoma unschooled on anti-Semitism rather than the Jew from Jerusalem who's lived anti-Semitism and studied it, then by all means go for it.
You go to Oklahoma. I'll go to a Kibbutz outside Tel Aviv and we'll test each other's knowledge at the end of the semester.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175729 Mar 11, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a big leap. It's the same thing in a different hemisphere. Most Americans (I think) have moved on from being suspicious of Asians and whatever else it was that prompted the camps. Various groups have NOT moved on when it comes to Jews. They've doubled down. And I don't need to tell you that the suffering of the Jews in the 40's swamps the suffering of the Japanese in American camps in the 40's. Are there different levels of racism? I think there are and when 6+ million of them can be exterminated like roaches and anti-Semitism is still breathing in that neck of the woods and elsewhere, you may want to rethink your opinion that public outrage can halt the possibility of such a thing happening again. I think you completely underestimate and minimize the power and depth of racism and anti-Semitism in particular. Like all feel good liberals, you think you can just ban it and ((( poof))) like magic, it'll be gone.
Well, see, the leap was news flash's contention that I was speaking globally.

I wasn't speaking globally.

I was speaking about the United States. Just as Stalin has never been an American politician, Iran and Israel have never been among the states united.

Frankly, I don't know how anyone got the idea I was speaking globally.

Since I must talk globally ...

You can take what I said about the United States and extend it, at least in part, to Western Europe. The further east in Europe you go, the less that applies. When you get to the Middle East, it doesn't apply at all. Antisemitism is still a potent force in large parts of the world. I know this, and I know that wishing won't make it go away.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175730 Mar 11, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't overthink it, Willie. If you'd rather listen to the onslaught of JMO's from the white girl in Oklahoma unschooled on anti-Semitism rather than the Jew from Jerusalem who's lived anti-Semitism and studied it, then by all means go for it.
You go to Oklahoma. I'll go to a Kibbutz outside Tel Aviv and we'll test each other's knowledge at the end of the semester
I shouldn't criticize people for sniping one minute, then turn around and do it myself the next.

That probably wasn't as direct an admission that I was wrong to make that post as you'd like, but it's the best you're gonna get.

If you go to a Kibbutz outside Tel Aviv and poll residents about antisemitism, you'll get five opinions. Anyone who knows anything about Israel (or Jewish humor) should know that.

All that said ... if she got 'we were born that way' out of Yehoshua's essay, I don't think she read it. Don't think Oklahoma has anything to do that, though.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175731 Mar 11, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide me with the list of put out and angry liberal/democrat groups targeted by the IRS under G.W. Bush, G.H.W. Bush and any other republican POTUS you can think of who were stonewalled, jacked around and asked what they prayed for, what kind of underwear they wore and what books they read when attempting to get tax exempt status and while you're at it, please give me the dates those disgruntled liberal groups appeared before congress in the ensuing investigation. There was an investigation wasn't there? Oh and one other thing if it won't be too much trouble. Please provide me with the name of the Lois Lerner equivalent at the time who refused to TALK about what went down. I must have been out of the country or something. I missed all that.
There is NO comparison in the area of dirty play between hard core conservatives and hard core liberals. Liberals win in that arena, hands down. You know how I know? A lot of far right conservatives are scared of God's wrath for behaving badly, while liberals thinking they are God and have no such reservations.
I'm sure you do believe that "there is NO comparison in the area of dirty play between hard core conservatives and hard core liberals".

I don't believe that. In spite of the fact that I'm a liberal, I don't believe the opposite is true either.

You seem to have trouble accepting that.

Now, I appreciate the flattery ... but it's not working.
Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#175732 Mar 11, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Whoa, Nellie!!!
In my conversation with SKL, I was talking about American citizens being para.... worried about interment camps, and the argument that it could happen here again because it happened to the Japanese. Sure, it could, but a whole lotta things would have to happen first - things that don't appear anywhere on the horizon.
Now you're leaping from the United States to the Israeli/Iranian conflict. I'm 60 years old, and I can't jump that far.
That's not a different angle - that's a different question, and what I said to SKL can't be stretched to include that in any way. Just because I don't think Chris Clearwater needs to fear Cuomo barring him from New York or rounding up him and his and putting them in camps doesn't meant that I think Netanyahu doesn't need to fear for his country.
Oh, and kinda primitive the way that water is kinda wet.
Please do provide the post where Clearwater said any such thing. In fact I'm quite sure while I did say I think Cuomo speaks out of hate for the right, I also said in reference to this we would be in a civil war long before we ever got anywhere close to that.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#175733 Mar 11, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide me with the list of put out and angry liberal/democrat groups targeted by the IRS under G.W. Bush, G.H.W. Bush and any other republican POTUS you can think of who were stonewalled, jacked around and asked what they prayed for, what kind of underwear they wore and what books they read when attempting to get tax exempt status and while you're at it, please give me the dates those disgruntled liberal groups appeared before congress in the ensuing investigation. There was an investigation wasn't there? Oh and one other thing if it won't be too much trouble. Please provide me with the name of the Lois Lerner equivalent at the time who refused to TALK about what went down. I must have been out of the country or something. I missed all that.
There is NO comparison in the area of dirty play between hard core conservatives and hard core liberals. Liberals win in that arena, hands down. You know how I know? A lot of far right conservatives are scared of God's wrath for behaving badly, while liberals thinking they are God and have no such reservations.
Yes, you should be careful.

Even the paranoid are sometimes followed.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#175734 Mar 11, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't overthink it, Willie. If you'd rather listen to the onslaught of JMO's from the white girl in Oklahoma unschooled on anti-Semitism rather than the Jew from Jerusalem who's lived anti-Semitism and studied it, then by all means go for it.
You go to Oklahoma. I'll go to a Kibbutz outside Tel Aviv and we'll test each other's knowledge at the end of the semester.
Boy, do you enjoy playing the victim.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175735 Mar 11, 2014
Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>Please do provide the post where Clearwater said any such thing. In fact I'm quite sure while I did say I think Cuomo speaks out of hate for the right, I also said in reference to this we would be in a civil war long before we ever got anywhere close to that.
In post #175659 you said "If he [Cuomo] got his way what happens to people he hates and would like removed from New York?"

There's no reason to assume from his words that he hates anyone or that he wants to remove anyone from New York.

That's how we got onto the camps, and people started talking about Stalin and Iran and Israel and ... did the guys on the grassy knoll make it into the conversation?
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#175736 Mar 11, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy, do you enjoy playing the victim.
How would preferring to learn about anti-Semitism from a Jew named AB Yehoshua in Israel makes ME a victim?


You're an idiot.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#175737 Mar 11, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you should be careful.
Even the paranoid are sometimes followed.
Lyndi's right, but for you, "idiot" doesn't begin to cover it. You've shown now on several occasions, that you prefer stalking her to actually earning a living as an alleged lawyer.
Yer a fake, a phony and a charlatan. And what's worse is........

..........yer a worthless freakin' troll!

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175738 Mar 12, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>What you hear me saying is that reasonable people can disagree about whether something like a joke is racist or not.
Personally, I don’t feel reasonable people will disagree on what constitutes racial humor. In fact, I submit it’s just the opposite. Kind of leaves us at odds with each other.
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>To make more of it than that ... to claim I'm saying racism is completely subjective - is an intellectual circle jerk.
Given the context by which we are discussing it, you in fact, did say it.

Yes?

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175739 Mar 12, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Do you have a reason to think that I don't have enough facts to form an opinion already, or are you just sniping?
Apologies, it was a snipe.
Some things are better left unsaid.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175740 Mar 12, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Saw the second post on this first.
It appears you are just sniping, but just in case - what do you think I could learn from the museum that I haven't learned from the written and video accounts of the interred?
Do you think I'll see something in that museum that will validate a comparison between, say, Japanese interred in the United States with westerners interred by Japan? With the Soviet gulag?
My, "pay the buck" comment was in regards to accessing the first link Lyndi provided that pointed to racial tendencies as being possibly innate. Nothing to do with the museum.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175741 Mar 12, 2014
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
=====
Bill Clinton >allegedly< said to Ted Kennedy when referring to Obama, "A few years ago, he'd be serving us drinks."
On your what's' funny scale of comments, was that:
A) Harmless?
B) Racist?
C) Kinda funny?
D) Borderline racist and not a damn bit funny?
E) Doesn't matter, He's Bill Clinton and can say anything he wants?
=====
So, you think it was harmless, kinda funny and borderline racist.
Hm. If it's borderline racist, I don't know how you can also call it harmless but far be it from me to figure out the workings of a liberal mind.
What do you suppose the collective view of liberals would have been had a prominent republican allegedly said it?

(((((((((( RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!)))))))))

I don't think you get that liberals have two very distinct sets of rules. One very flexible set for themselves and one very sturdy set for the rest of us.
Workings of a liberal mind?
Plenty of blame to go around.

You do have flair!

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175742 Mar 12, 2014
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>My, "pay the buck" comment was in regards to accessing the first link Lyndi provided that pointed to racial tendencies as being possibly innate. Nothing to do with the museum.
Of course.

My bad.

See, I thought that the fact it was in reply to a post about the museum meant that I should pay the buck to get into the museum.

I get confused that way sometimes.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175743 Mar 12, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>Of course.
My bad.
See, I thought that the fact it was in reply to a post about the museum meant that I should pay the buck to get into the museum.
I get confused that way sometimes.
And, of course, i go back to look and find the 'pay the buck' comment wasn't in reply to my exchange with Catcher about the museum. It just came at around the same time.

Doh!

I generally follow links to articles when people post them, even when I'm not a fan of the site/source. I followed the link Lyndi posted. It wasn't the study itself. The study itself was going to cost me $15, iirc.

My mind's not nearly as closed as my wallet is.

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175744 Mar 12, 2014
Sucks to be Obama today!

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#175745 Mar 12, 2014
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>And, of course, i go back to look and find the 'pay the buck' comment wasn't in reply to my exchange with Catcher about the museum. It just came at around the same time.
Doh!
I generally follow links to articles when people post them, even when I'm not a fan of the site/source. I followed the link Lyndi posted. It wasn't the study itself. The study itself was going to cost me $15, iirc.
My mind's not nearly as closed as my wallet is.
Lynidi's first link to these studies wanted the reader to pony up a buck to read the entire article. It was designed to enroll you as a subscriber in a trial 4 month membership.

“I'm here with bells on.”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#175746 Mar 12, 2014
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
Sucks to be Obama today!
What did he do now???

I googled, and all I could find was some stuff about 'applying costs' and a 'slapdash referendum' on the Crimea.

What am I missing?

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#175747 Mar 12, 2014
NEWS-FLASH wrote:
<quoted text>Lynidi's first link to these studies wanted the reader to pony up a buck to read the entire article. It was designed to enroll you as a subscriber in a trial 4 month membership.
We're talking about two different things.

Lyndi linked to an article about a study by a neurologist published in a professional journal. I think the linked article was free. Access to the study in the professional journal would have cost me $15 +/-. That's the one I was talking about.

She also linked to an article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz about the work of
Prof. Gil Diesendruck. The full article is behind a paywall, but by searching the professor's name and the words "born racist" (and since you are so adamit) I found a back door - through a Palestinian site, no less.

http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-pag...

It's an interesting study that does seem to suggest that children are inherently drawn to people "like them" from infancy. The author attributes it to an evolutionary survival instinct. The author goes on to say,“Ironically, what enabled us to survive throughout evolution may be to our detriment today, as we also apply this strategy when it’s not relevant to survival. So it’s important to distinguish between situations of war and menace, and everyday life, where the use of such strategies creates injustice and discrimination.”

From a different part of the article...

"We studied children aged 5, 8 and 12 from different educational systems: Jewish children who attended regular,‘mainstream’ Jewish schools; Arab children in regular Arab schools, and Jewish and Arab children who studied together at bilingual schools that combine students and teachers from both ethnicities.

“We found that in all the groups, the 5-year-olds were equally essentialist, and to a high degree. That is, they all perceived the other ethnic group as very different, as homogeneous, and so on. As they got older, those who went to a regular school remained essentialist, but those who went to an integrated school with Arabs and Jews together, became less and less essentialist. The implication is that the environment doesn’t create essentialism; it’s there from the start. Environment and education only strengthen or temper it.”

If you are interested in the "origins" of racism, the study is interesting. How you can apply that to justifying or validating racism (Lydni's words) seems problematic at best to me.

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