Bush is a hero
Lost In Transition

United States

#173055 Dec 2, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>That's so true. For instance you don't believe what was already out there for those without insurance because you never heard of it. And it does matter to you who says what. You are obsessing about that. My point has always been that people need healthcare and we had almost enough to make that happen. Just a few tweaks would have had everyone covered if not cadillac style at least well enough to keep people as healthy as possible. Don't flatter yourself that you are a reasonable person. You are so entrenched in defending Obama you refuse to see anything that is critical of him. You say "I don't talk about that" because it might put Obama in a negative light. You didn't talk about Benghazi, or the IRS either. Truth is you have very little to say except to bash others. Oops that would make you a troll. Yike! wouldn't it
When obama was first elected, and still of an unknown quality, he had a 70% approval rating. The other 30%, the RepubliBots, wouldn't have approved no matter what. He now has a 36% rating and the only thing keeping him afloat are the ObamaBots. Facts, figures, current events, history, common sense, none of these mean a thing to his devoted other than they'll just have to get a little more creative in their excuses and justifications. Should a main-stream Repub win the next election, which I really doubted before this obamacare fiasco, we'll just flip that hourglass that has 30% of the people already caked into each end.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#173056 Dec 2, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Yes. Maybe the problem is that I do know quite bit about healthcare, and you not knowing much are unable to judge that. It's pretty rude. When you say something related to law (and you weren't even a lawyer) I took your word for it, but even if I didn't I'd at least have tried to find a reliable source that disagrees with what you say. But not you. You do the stick out the tongue, and "you don't know nothin' " bit. BTW I also know quite a bit about social services and welfare, you know that "in the trenches" knowledge. But you know so much more cause you read it, in a book.(Books don't lie right Willie?)
Maybe you're a self-educated man. I respect that, but anyone's education is subject to the whims of the educator. You might want to admit that you read what you want to read.
I've never said you don't know anything, lisw - I've said you don't know as much as you think you do.

There's a big difference.

We've been all over this before, probably more than once, but this claim that you know and I don't is rubbish. As I've told you before, I've worked for a hospital and two insurance companies directly, always at the intersection of patients, billing departments, and insurance companies.

Additionally, the law firm I worked for represented hospitals, large medical practices, pharm and insurance companies, and we had to get involved in the nuts and bolts of how they operated to defend them from lawsuits (and in one the threat of criminal charges). That meant getting into coding bills, getting into claims processing, getting into policy cancellations, getting into all kinds of things.

You and I both know something about healthcare, lisw - but the health care system in this country encompasses a whole lot more than just providing mental health services and cutting your own bills, or any of the areas I have direct experience with.

Who's ego is on display here, with a claim that "I do know quite bit about healthcare, and you not knowing much"?

I don't think it's mine, lisw.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#173057 Dec 2, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder if Ups is sending out disinformation in saying that come Jan 1 they will no longer cover spouses of drivers. I take note of it because I'm covered on my wife's plan. If next year we loose coverage we will not be part of this joke of a government run sham known as the complete lives system.
Again, you need to look into it. UPS may be doing you a favor.

It's a little known fact that it may be cheaper for some to ask their employer NOT to cover dependents because the employee can save money by covering them on an exchange policy.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#173058 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You gotta be kidding.....
Uh, you realize the point of the story was that Big Bad Sebelius >wouldn't< over-ride medical professionals and force a change in the policy? In other words, the Right was upset because she DIDN'T make the end-of-life decision they desired.
You guys are all against gov't intervention...except when you're for it. Is it any wonder your party is so topsy-turvey?
You do realize as well that the poor girl did get the transplant....and her body rejected it, and she died, exactly as the professionals said she likely would? I seriously wonder if you even know how this played out, if so it seems weird you brought it up as somehow "proving" something here, because it directly contradicts what you claim. Strange, and not just a little bit exploitative of a real-life tragedy, dude...
Anyhoo, this all means that a precious and rare organ went to an inappropriate recipient rather than to another for whom it may have had more chance of success....
ALL because of pressure from the public....
ALL because of an ideologically-driven story in the right-wing press designed to attack the Obama administration.
Well done.
C'mon, man, if you're just gonna lob 'em over the plate, somebody needs to get up in the bullpen.....
Not surprisingly its you who missed the point completely. She had the opportunity to do the right thing and failed. My point isnt that she decided not to get involved. Thats already been decided that the government will get involved and CAN get involved. The point is when they got involved they made the wrong decision.

I do realize she got the transplant, a judge made the decision. The girl was given 3-5 weeks to live and the request wasnt for just her it was for all adolescents with lung disease.

But I'm sure its as you imply here HIP Sebellius had all the facts and knew the girl wouldn't survive anyway. Come on Dude, the 10 y/o was worth the chance. The next 10 y/o that gets denied because nothings changed deserves the chance.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#173059 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Again, you need to look into it. UPS may be doing you a favor.
It's a little known fact that it may be cheaper for some to ask their employer NOT to cover dependents because the employee can save money by covering them on an exchange policy.
I highly doubt anyones gonna save money by going from a group policy to the exchanges HIP. Just more liberal rehtoric.
Lost In Transition

United States

#173060 Dec 2, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Not surprisingly its you who missed the point completely. She had the opportunity to do the right thing and failed. My point isnt that she decided not to get involved. Thats already been decided that the government will get involved and CAN get involved. The point is when they got involved they made the wrong decision.
I do realize she got the transplant, a judge made the decision. The girl was given 3-5 weeks to live and the request wasnt for just her it was for all adolescents with lung disease.
But I'm sure its as you imply here HIP Sebellius had all the facts and knew the girl wouldn't survive anyway. Come on Dude, the 10 y/o was worth the chance. The next 10 y/o that gets denied because nothings changed deserves the chance.
Gotta agree, Larry. When you're talking about a child, you take the chance. Any chance. Even if you avoid the emotional aspect, it's a learning experience that may help the next in need. That's one of the bad aspects about how obamacare affects "high priced" hospitals like the Mayo or Case clinics. These are research hospitals, and worthy of the cost.
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#173061 Dec 2, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
They covered 10 million who didn't have insurance while the working class find themselves left out in the cold.
Saw an article today Titled: Obamacare signup exploded in November.
They signed up 100,000 people (doesn't sound like an explosion to me), meanwhile just short of 5 million got cancellation notices.
The msm is doing all it can. And just think a short time ago news that most have already forgotten on people like Rosen at foxnews or the reporters at the ap.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#173062 Dec 2, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>I've never said you don't know anything, lisw - I've said you don't know as much as you think you do.
There's a big difference.
We've been all over this before, probably more than once, but this claim that you know and I don't is rubbish. As I've told you before, I've worked for a hospital and two insurance companies directly, always at the intersection of patients, billing departments, and insurance companies.
Additionally, the law firm I worked for represented hospitals, large medical practices, pharm and insurance companies, and we had to get involved in the nuts and bolts of how they operated to defend them from lawsuits (and in one the threat of criminal charges). That meant getting into coding bills, getting into claims processing, getting into policy cancellations, getting into all kinds of things.
You and I both know something about healthcare, lisw - but the health care system in this country encompasses a whole lot more than just providing mental health services and cutting your own bills, or any of the areas I have direct experience with.
Who's ego is on display here, with a claim that "I do know quite bit about healthcare, and you not knowing much"?
I don't think it's mine, lisw.
Still don't get it do you? if you think my experience is just in mental health and cutting bills you haven't been listening. But why doesn't that surprise me?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#173063 Dec 2, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Not surprisingly its you who missed the point completely. She had the opportunity to do the right thing and failed. My point isnt that she decided not to get involved. Thats already been decided that the government will get involved and CAN get involved. The point is when they got involved they made the wrong decision.
I do realize she got the transplant, a judge made the decision. The girl was given 3-5 weeks to live and the request wasnt for just her it was for all adolescents with lung disease.
But I'm sure its as you imply here HIP Sebellius had all the facts and knew the girl wouldn't survive anyway. Come on Dude, the 10 y/o was worth the chance. The next 10 y/o that gets denied because nothings changed deserves the chance.
Ah, now you're changing your tune. I'm used to it. You said, "Its good to know people like Sebellius are on top of things to make end of life decisions for us." Fact is, she >didn't< make an end-of-life decision, and now you've got a problem with that. In other words, "Sebelius bad, no matter what the real facts are."

You know organs don't just show up from the factory, right? They're extremely rare.

You know further that there is a loooong waiting list for those rare organs, right? These are real human lives also. Unfortunately for these these other human lives, they may not be as heart-tugging as a child. Who decides who "deserves a chance", as you say? The New York Post and the people they stir up, or a board of medical professionals?

What you're advocating is that the government get involved and over-ride medical professionals, because it's a child, and therefore makes a feel-good story whether she dies or not,

while at the same time another human life which stands a better chance of benefiting from the organ, according to those same medical professionals, should be bumped down the list, and possibly die waiting.

Even tho' I think gov't can and should get involved in universal health-care, the main knock I have against it is exactly this reason here - it politicizes professional health-care, NOT based on need or best practices, but on political gamesmanship. This story is a perfect example.
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#173064 Dec 2, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
I highly doubt anyones gonna save money by going from a group policy to the exchanges HIP. Just more liberal rehtoric.
I bring up ups because its our situation just reversed. If I do get kicked off her plan will take the fine. This is one thing I do agree with unhappy lesbo on. The end game isn't this is full gov run socialized healthcare. And I can't wait for a lovely person with the mindset I see at my local taxpayer dept when I get new car tags to run healthcare. When people are hurting and weak and sick that we know best and don't give a flip about you will be something to witness. Btw in Feb I was in a hospital here for a hernia. Staff was great and follow up care good too.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#173065 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You gotta be kidding.....
Uh, you realize the point of the story was that Big Bad Sebelius >wouldn't< over-ride medical professionals and force a change in the policy? In other words, the Right was upset because she DIDN'T make the end-of-life decision they desired.
You guys are all against gov't intervention...except when you're for it. Is it any wonder your party is so topsy-turvey?
You do realize as well that the poor girl did get the transplant....and her body rejected it, and she died, exactly as the professionals said she likely would? I seriously wonder if you even know how this played out, if so it seems weird you brought it up as somehow "proving" something here, because it directly contradicts what you claim. Strange, and not just a little bit exploitative of a real-life tragedy, dude...
Anyhoo, this all means that a precious and rare organ went to an inappropriate recipient rather than to another for whom it may have had more chance of success....
ALL because of pressure from the public....
ALL because of an ideologically-driven story in the right-wing press designed to attack the Obama administration.
Well done.
C'mon, man, if you're just gonna lob 'em over the plate, somebody needs to get up in the bullpen.....
First of all I don't know for sure which girl you are talking about but the one with the lung transplant, last I heard, she lived. But that is not the point. It saddens me to think that you are so cold hearted in the name of liberalism to call it a right wing story. The girl's mother went to Sebelius first and then she took her story to the press hoping she'd get an emotional reaction. I would have too. Are you really saying that this ACA didn't use heartstrings to get passed? Please, the stories of children with no healthcare, and then the glorious stories of how happy people were when they signed up. Both turned out not to be so true, but what does that matter when you're trying to create a legacy. Compare that to trying to save your child's life.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#173066 Dec 2, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>An agent from the Social security administration, thanks for asking. And do you mean "compliant?" Oh yes it should be, it covers more than medicare.
If your husband's plan is compliant there is no reason under the ACA he can't decline Medicare D, and no reason he should pay for it.

If a representative of the Social Security Administration is telling you otherwise, you need to go to another agent or over his head.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#173067 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, now you're changing your tune. I'm used to it. You said, "Its good to know people like Sebellius are on top of things to make end of life decisions for us." Fact is, she >didn't< make an end-of-life decision, and now you've got a problem with that. In other words, "Sebelius bad, no matter what the real facts are."
You know organs don't just show up from the factory, right? They're extremely rare.
You know further that there is a loooong waiting list for those rare organs, right? These are real human lives also. Unfortunately for these these other human lives, they may not be as heart-tugging as a child. Who decides who "deserves a chance", as you say? The New York Post and the people they stir up, or a board of medical professionals?
What you're advocating is that the government get involved and over-ride medical professionals, because it's a child, and therefore makes a feel-good story whether she dies or not,
while at the same time another human life which stands a better chance of benefiting from the organ, according to those same medical professionals, should be bumped down the list, and possibly die waiting.
Even tho' I think gov't can and should get involved in universal health-care, the main knock I have against it is exactly this reason here - it politicizes professional health-care, NOT based on need or best practices, but on political gamesmanship. This story is a perfect example.
The government should never, ever get involved but the courts will whether we have government or private healthcare.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#173068 Dec 2, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
Gotta agree, Larry. When you're talking about a child, you take the chance. Any chance. Even if you avoid the emotional aspect, it's a learning experience that may help the next in need. That's one of the bad aspects about how obamacare affects "high priced" hospitals like the Mayo or Case clinics. These are research hospitals, and worthy of the cost.
You could be right. Since viable organs are a rare commodity, it could be a real shot in the arm to the old-timey cadaver provider industry. Create jobs, and thin out the homeless population in one fell swoop.....
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#173069 Dec 2, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
Gotta agree, Larry. When you're talking about a child, you take the chance. Any chance. Even if you avoid the emotional aspect, it's a learning experience that may help the next in need. That's one of the bad aspects about how obamacare affects "high priced" hospitals like the Mayo or Case clinics. These are research hospitals, and worthy of the cost.
Indeed. Do I understand correctly most of our government leaders will have a different plan? If so don't expect us to use this system that isn't even fully built.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#173070 Dec 2, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder if Ups is sending out disinformation in saying that come Jan 1 they will no longer cover spouses of drivers. I take note of it because I'm covered on my wife's plan. If next year we loose coverage we will not be part of this joke of a government run sham known as the complete lives system.
UPS is cancelling policies for spouses eligible for coverage from their own employer plans.

A non working spouse, or a spouse working where coverage is not available, is not being cancelled by UPS.

The hard part in assessing a change like this one is how do you know whether the ACA was the reason, or just an excuse?

Employer sponsored health care plans have been increasing in cost and have been cutting coverage for, well, in my own experience going back into the mid 1980s.

Making it even harder to decide are the screamers - the ones who will say "oh, it's all the ACA" or it's "just the greedy employers/insurance companies".

Now, I know well enough by now that nothing I say actually matters much. Screamers will see what they want to see, so that just by acknowledging the possibility that UPS used this as an excuse I'm blindly defending Obama and the ACA.

I think it's a valid question, and I don't claim to know the answer in this (the UPS) or any other case.
Lost In Transition

United States

#173071 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You could be right. Since viable organs are a rare commodity, it could be a real shot in the arm to the old-timey cadaver provider industry. Create jobs, and thin out the homeless population in one fell swoop.....
My luck, I'd get a liver transplant from some burned out wino.
Harrumph.
Have you seen where Organovo is using 3D printing to build human livers? They're collaborating with Mayo on that. Wild stuff.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#173072 Dec 2, 2013
WildWeirdWillie wrote:
<quoted text>If your husband's plan is compliant there is no reason under the ACA he can't decline Medicare D, and no reason he should pay for it.
If a representative of the Social Security Administration is telling you otherwise, you need to go to another agent or over his head.
Well I'm sorry but the word came in a letter from social security and he got the same word on the phone from the agent. That meets the check with two, but I'll ask him to call again. Then will you believe me, or is this just one of those times that it "can't be" or you "think" I don't have my story straight. Anyone here over 65 in the same situation? Please let me know.
lisw

Delaware, OH

#173074 Dec 2, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You could be right. Since viable organs are a rare commodity, it could be a real shot in the arm to the old-timey cadaver provider industry. Create jobs, and thin out the homeless population in one fell swoop.....
You've got to tell me how your reply had anything to do with Lit's post. I just don't get it.

“Help Cecil Help!”

Since: Dec 06

Lafayette IN

#173075 Dec 2, 2013
lisw wrote:
<quoted text>Still don't get it do you? if you think my experience is just in mental health and cutting bills you haven't been listening. But why doesn't that surprise me?
Hell, at least I extended to you the courtesy of acknowledging something.

That's not something you've ever been willing to extend to me on this subject.

I know you have more personal experience in dealing with the health care system than anyone SHOULD, and I don't know how much of your work with clients involved interacting with health care providers. I should have also acknowledged that, but I wasn't preparing a CV for you.

If you need to think those omissions were a deliberate attempt to minimize, I can't stop you.

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