Bush is a hero

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#170984 Oct 29, 2013
Greetings to one and all. Have you been enjoying the entertainment that Obama & Co. have been providing lately?** I ** sure have :) In fact, I've been positively chortling :D
Lost In Transition

United States

#170985 Oct 30, 2013
Roberta G wrote:
Greetings to one and all. Have you been enjoying the entertainment that Obama & Co. have been providing lately?** I ** sure have :) In fact, I've been positively chortling :D
If I didn't have one son whose hours were cut in half to avoid company compliance with the law, and another that was one of the lucky 300,000 Florida residents whose policy will be cancelled on Dec 31st, it would be a real belly buster. The fact that both will now get to pay a "penalty" is just a bonus giggle.
Chris Clearwater

United States

#170986 Oct 30, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
If I didn't have one son whose hours were cut in half to avoid company compliance with the law, and another that was one of the lucky 300,000 Florida residents whose policy will be cancelled on Dec 31st, it would be a real belly buster. The fact that both will now get to pay a "penalty" is just a bonus giggle.
Yea. I'm thinking most everyone I know has had skin in the game since oh, Jan 09.
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#170987 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Not so much a lie as a promise he couldn't possibly keep w/o nationalizing health insurance. It was a "promise" made by one party (the President) to another party (consumers) that depended on a third party (insurance companies) to keep it. It was a foolish statement, made even more foolish by the fact that the President knew it when he made it.
On the other hand, anyone that fell for it probably hasn't had insurance to begin with, for anyone knows that your insurance coverage, costs, co-pays, limits, and underwriting can and has changed any time the insurance administrator feels like it. The ACA didn't make this happen - what the ACA >hoped< to do was limit it from happening arbitrarily as has been the case for all past history. However, as I said, outside of a national plan, it was a false hope, and thus a foolish promise.
Pres Obama doesn't strike me as a man that is foolish. Nor do I think on the countless scandals some wish to spin away he only learns of it as we do on Cnn.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170988 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Obviously we both choose the words that serve us.
I maintain that it was a promise w/o teeth. It could only work if he had included a bevy of qualifiers,, most notably, "...if your insurance provider chooses to participate". As we know, qualifiers don't fly in speeches. Thus it was a foolish promise.
As far as knowing "his own signature legislation inside out, backwards and sideways", this is an ingenuous and gratuitous charge. The Chief Executive's job is to sell a vision, not to dictate the nuts and bolts of such vision. This President advanced the vision and then (we conveniently forget) left it to a bipartisan committee to work out the details. I'd defy you to name one CE in history who had a vision AND all the details. Eisenhower's successful interstate highway system, Reagan's failed supply-side economics, Bush's disastrous Iraq War - just a few examples of fundamental visions that affected history that come to mind.
Don't include me in your, "obviously WE choose the words that serve us." You don't have my permission to do that.
==

And it's only a matter of time before someone with nothing better to do goes back and counts the number of times Obama boldly declared, "If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor," but whoops, conveniently forgot to mention the downside.

And forget your "bevy of qualifiers," nonsense. One of the perks of being president is having a staff at your beck and call, Hip. He has advisors and one of their jobs is to inform the POTUS and thereby protect the POTUS from himself and to counsel him against repeatedly lying (at the very least, by omission) to the people which could come back to bite him in the butt. Therefore, unless they were as inexcusably in the dark about the law as he is, it wasn't a promise without teeth. It was a lie with great big shark teeth and a case can be made that it altered the course of 2 presidential elections and as we can now see, it's not only biting him, it's biting millions of people he serves.

And point 3. Eisenhower's highway system, Reagans supply side economics and GWB's Iraq war, weren't laws, so your offer for me to "name a CEO in history who had a vision and all the details" is bogus and here's why. The "vision" part of the Affordable Care Act ended the second he signed it into law and part of the job of the POTUS is to know inside out, backwards and sideways any law which has been monumentally relevant to his election(s) and administration, especially if you're it's creator, top spokesperson and #1 salesman, especially if it required SCOTUS to sign off on it, especially one he's been pushing since the moment he arrived on the DC campus, especially one with his name attached to it, especially one which consumes one sixth of the US economy, especially one which will effect every single American, and especially one will produce what he declared was his wish from the outset, which was to "fundamentally transform America."

Are you Obama's payroll? Honest to God, Hip, if you're not, you should be. The lengths you go to insulate this absolute horror of a president from having to assume accountability and responsibility, is unnerving.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170989 Oct 30, 2013
Sebelious:
.....just can't decide if she's more inclined to wear Prada or steal dalmatian puppies.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170990 Oct 30, 2013
BobinTX wrote:
<quoted text>
I like a good challenge, but I think the Cards may be taking it a tad too far.
"It ain't over 'till it's over."
Go Cards!
The Red Sox haven't won the world Series >in Boston,< since 1918.


"BOSTON (AP)— Ted Williams never did it. Not Carl Yastrzemski. Not Carlton Fisk. Not even Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling, who ended The Curse nearly a decade ago but did it on the road.

Practically no one alive can remember seeing such an event unfold: The Boston Red Sox could win a World Series title on the celebrated green grass at Fenway Park.

When the Red Sox last won a World Series at home, Babe Ruth, Carl Mays and Harry Hooper were the stars in September 1918, a season cut short by World War I......"

They're hungry for this one, bobin.
Chris Clearwater

United States

#170991 Oct 30, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
Sebelious:
.....just can't decide if she's more inclined to wear Prada or steal dalmatian puppies.
She is another one that is quite the test of my faith. When she spoke in that ever cold Washington tone some people live some die I wanted to puke.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#170992 Oct 30, 2013
Do we detect a certain inconsistency between the terse chastisement here:
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't include me in your, "obviously WE choose the words that serve us." You don't have my permission to do that.
and the speculative assignation here?:
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>Are you Obama's payroll? Honest to God, Hip, if you're not, you should be. The lengths you go to insulate this absolute horror of a president from having to assume accountability and responsibility, is unnerving.
Yes, I think we do. Since we've seen you do these very things so many times in like form, we have to assume it's decidedly tactical. But that's ok - everybody has their schtick. I'll tell ya what I'll do - I'll go ahead and write as I see it w/o asking permission, and you do the same, kinda like we been doin'. How 'bout 'dat?

In my view nothing I've said was intended to "insulate" the President. I believe I was pretty clear that there has been some significant gaffes relative to the ACA. I do think that to call his "doctor" statement a deliberate "lie" is self-serving and choir-preaching, but I also said it was a stupid statement. I've said many times over the last 5 years that AMONG this admin's weakest points is message discipline.

In the bigger picture, you - and I mean "you" as in "you all", representative of the O'ReilLimBeckAnnity talking point memos - you all struggle to splash this President with all the slop you can dream up in the Ailes/Koch/Rove backrooms. You all seem to be oblivious to the fact that >no one's buying it outside your echo chamber<. You get cheers from the cat's choir, and think you've accomplished something, but act oblivious to the fact that you've not only NOT reached outside the bubble, you've SHRUNK the bubble.

But you're not oblivious - you salve yourselves with blanket dismissal statements like, "They're all in the tank for him", and "they're all lo-info voters".

Obama f*cked-up, big-time. Do I care about the effect on Obama? Not in the least. As is obvious from every other post, >conservatives< have created this straw-man infallibility thing and are heavily invested in it, and use it as a classic and transparent projection ploy. It's yours. My interest is solely in the moderate/progressive platform, and whoever is available to push it forward.

Not that it'll do any good to say so, again. "Just a shill for Obama" is far more comforting with ideologues.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#170993 Oct 30, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a lie with great big shark teeth and a case can be made that it altered the course of 2 presidential elections....
Shouldn't you attribute if you're going to use a quote from Elections for Dummies?
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170994 Oct 30, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>She is another one that is quite the test of my faith. When she spoke in that ever cold Washington tone some people live some die I wanted to puke.
The airsick bag is located in the pocket of the seat in front of you. Maybe you should ask the flight attendant for a couple extra. It's a long, turbulent flight to 2016.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170995 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnozizzz wrote:
I believe I was pretty clear that there has been some significant gaffes relative to the ACA.
I'm sorry. I can't go any further than this. You've watered down ACA intentional misinformation, omissions and lies into foolish promises, false hopes and now your calling them gaffes.
Gaffe: Defintion
A social blunder, a clumsy diplomatic mistake, an insensitive remark, a faux pas.

I'm not playing.

Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#170996 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed. This "knowing what's best for you" theme is curdled. Every time I hear it I think of the book title of the icon of arch-conservative ideology Rush Limbaugh - "The Way Things Ought To Be". Yeah, everybody has their own "arrogant" ideas as to what's the best course, liberals included, damn them.
Rush Limbaugh isn't the POTUS and every time I hear it, I think of Julia.
Remember cartoon Julia?

"The Life of Julia" ---- the ideological vision of your modern liberalism to create a nation that takes care of its people from cradle to grave. The microcosm of Obama's vision for America and emblematic of his view of the government's role in an individual's life.

"Takes care of it's people from cradle to grave" (because they can't take care of themselves.)

When the shutdown occured, liberal television was on overload wth women saying "What am I supposed to do? I need the guvment to feed my babies. How am I supposed to get my milk?"

You know what I'd have told her? Don't breed what you can't feed. And that's me being -----> a MODERATE.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#170997 Oct 30, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry. I can't go any further than this. You've watered down ACA intentional misinformation, omissions and lies into foolish promises, false hopes and now your calling them gaffes.
Gaffe: Defintion
A social blunder, a clumsy diplomatic mistake, an insensitive remark, a faux pas.
I'm not playing.
Well sure, that's alright. You've certainly been playing but you can quit anytime you like. That's the beauty of it, ain't it?

Lie: Definition
Deliberate and willful misinformation with malicious intent (see examples every third page this forum since 2008)

A lie is a strong accusation, not to be used lightly, else it lose it's meaning. I try to choose my words carefully. That's my schtick.

Was the Bush certainty of WMDs a "lie" at the Executive level? I've argued, with arch-liberals in this forum, it was not. Should he have been more stringent about the information provided him, given the far reaching effects of his goal? Absolutely.

Was Obama's, "You can keep your doctor" a lie at the Executive level? I say it was not. Should he have been more stringent about the information provided him, given the far reaching effects of his goal? Absolutely.

To say further that it was possibly THE lie that affected two elections?

Well, there ya go.'Nuff said. G'nite Irene.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#170998 Oct 30, 2013
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>
Rush Limbaugh isn't the POTUS and every time I hear it, I think of Julia.
Remember cartoon Julia?
"The Life of Julia" ---- the ideological vision of your modern liberalism to create a nation that takes care of its people from cradle to grave. The microcosm of Obama's vision for America and emblematic of his view of the government's role in an individual's life.
"Takes care of it's people from cradle to grave" (because they can't take care of themselves.)
Your parenthetical add is telling. This is a rote talking point. I understand you were compelled to do so. Outside-the-box thinking is actively discouraged among ideologues.

Progressives aren't interested in "taking care of it's people from cradle to grave" (because they can't take care of themselves.)". They are advocates of a social safety net in a preferred economic paradigm with admittedly inherent faults and in-built inequities. We are unwilling reactionaries in that the opposition platform wants to ensure that every life reaches the cradle, if they can afford one, and then it's survival of the fittest to the grave.
Lyndi wrote:
<quoted text>When the shutdown occured, liberal television was on overload wth women saying "What am I supposed to do? I need the guvment to feed my babies. How am I supposed to get my milk?"
You know what I'd have told her? Don't breed what you can't feed. And that's me being -----> a MODERATE.
Interesting. My wife and I were just talking about this very thing yesterday, the upshot being we both agree a mathematically impossible 1000%.

The fact that this "exceptional country" can't figure out how to provide a safety net without creating a >proportionally small but significant< dependency class is disturbing.
HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#170999 Oct 30, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>She is another one that is quite the test of my faith. When she spoke in that ever cold Washington tone some people live some die I wanted to puke.
And there, in tune with this morning's discussion, is a perfect example of gratuitous malicious misinformation so popular in right-wing America today. Thanks.

“Custer @ LBH - Ooops”

Since: Nov 07

Bakersfield, CA

#171000 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnozizzz wrote:
In the bigger picture, you - and I mean "you" as in "you all", representative of the O'ReilLimBeckAnnity talking point memos - you all struggle to splash this President with all the slop you can dream up in the Ailes/Koch/Rove backrooms. You all seem to be oblivious to the fact that >no one's buying it outside your echo chamber<. You get cheers from the cat's choir, and think you've accomplished something, but act oblivious to the fact that you've not only NOT reached outside the bubble, you've SHRUNK the bubble.
One month ago you may've been right about the "bubble" as you call it.
Guess ya been too busy plowin' to see what's been taking place.

All the low-info voters didn't care much about Benghazi, or Fast & furious, or any of the other "gaffes" Obama made. Why should they, didn't affect them or theirs.

But things are a-changin' farmer John. With the botched roll-out of Obamacare, more & more people are finding out that this new HC law will INDEED affect them. From a terribly ineffective enrollment website, to dramatically increased premiums and deductibles, not only are more people finally waking up to the disaster they helped enable, but the once doting, swooning media is now "pressing' for answers.

Oh but wait Johnny, that's only the beginning. Many of these same people finally awakening, are also learning about the laundry list of
"gaffes" in which they previously had no interest. And that accumulating realization will likely have a big effect on the elections of 2014 AND 2016.
HipGnozizzz wrote:
Obama f*cked-up, big-time. Do I care about the effect on Obama? Not in the least. As is obvious from every other post, >conservatives< have created this straw-man infallibility thing and are heavily invested in it, and use it as a classic and transparent projection ploy. It's yours. My interest is solely in the moderate/progressive platform, and whoever is available to push it forward.
This incompetant organizer you'all elected is causing MUCH more damage from within, than ANY group or groups of terrorist ever could. The floundering economy, outta control spending, wealth redistribution, inept foreign policy, and oppressive domestic policy HAS to reach an explosive termination sooner rather than later (IMO).

I now believe that was Obama's general plan from the moment he was able to defeat Clinton in the primaries. The scariest part is that the US may have gone beyond the point of no return. If the mid-term elections fail to stop this runaway train, the future for the US looks extremely bleak to me.

And If you'd rather pass it off as just more of the same ol' Chicken Little, have at it.

HipGnozizzz

Dahinda, IL

#171001 Oct 30, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>She is another one that is quite the test of my faith. When she spoke in that ever cold Washington tone some people live some die I wanted to puke.
Further in tune with this morning's discussion, I should add that I wouldn't character poster's statement as a "lie", as he was only running with the misinformation as provided by his select source(s). Thanks again.
Lyndi

Sarasota, FL

#171002 Oct 30, 2013
HipGnozizzz wrote:
<quoted text>
Your parenthetical add is telling. This is a rote talking point. I understand you were compelled to do so. Outside-the-box thinking is actively discouraged among ideologues.
Progressives aren't interested in "taking care of it's people from cradle to grave" (because they can't take care of themselves.)". They are advocates of a social safety net in a preferred economic paradigm with admittedly inherent faults and in-built inequities. We are unwilling reactionaries in that the opposition platform wants to ensure that every life reaches the cradle, if they can afford one, and then it's survival of the fittest to the grave.
<quoted text>Interesting. My wife and I were just talking about this very thing yesterday, the upshot being we both agree a mathematically impossible 1000%.
The fact that this "exceptional country" can't figure out how to provide a safety net without creating a >proportionally small but significant< dependency class is disturbing.
Blah, blah, blah
Yeah well, have you seen the size of that dependency class lately? Yowza! It's just blossoming, Hip. And here the problem with your safety net philosophy. They never learn to land on their own two feet 'cause there's always something there to catch 'em. It's now a generational problem, my dear man. Generational.

On a funny note, did you read this?

"Republican Sen. Tom Coburn and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid are planning a clear-the-air meeting after the two lobbed insults at each other over their respective effectiveness in the upper chamber of Congress.

It all started when Oklahoman Coburn called Reid "an absolute a—hole" during a meeting with Young Republicans in New York."

Yikes!
Remember when Dick Cheney told Pat Leahy to go blank himself?

lol!

Love that Dick Cheney! Really, I do!
Must be cause I'm a war monger wannabe.

Back onto my turnip truck I go.........
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#171003 Oct 30, 2013
bad bob wrote:
<quoted text>
One month ago you may've been right about the "bubble" as you call it.
Guess ya been too busy plowin' to see what's been taking place.
All the low-info voters didn't care much about Benghazi, or Fast & furious, or any of the other "gaffes" Obama made. Why should they, didn't affect them or theirs.
But things are a-changin' farmer John. With the botched roll-out of Obamacare, more & more people are finding out that this new HC law will INDEED affect them. From a terribly ineffective enrollment website, to dramatically increased premiums and deductibles, not only are more people finally waking up to the disaster they helped enable, but the once doting, swooning media is now "pressing' for answers.
Oh but wait Johnny, that's only the beginning. Many of these same people finally awakening, are also learning about the laundry list of
"gaffes" in which they previously had no interest. And that accumulating realization will likely have a big effect on the elections of 2014 AND 2016.
<quoted text>
This incompetant organizer you'all elected is causing MUCH more damage from within, than ANY group or groups of terrorist ever could. The floundering economy, outta control spending, wealth redistribution, inept foreign policy, and oppressive domestic policy HAS to reach an explosive termination sooner rather than later (IMO).
I now believe that was Obama's general plan from the moment he was able to defeat Clinton in the primaries. The scariest part is that the US may have gone beyond the point of no return. If the mid-term elections fail to stop this runaway train, the future for the US looks extremely bleak to me.
And If you'd rather pass it off as just more of the same ol' Chicken Little, have at it.
Little side note. Our news had a story I think yesterday we may soon be taxed for every mile we drive. Most new cars and trucks already have the electronics to make this possible. I would have to quit this gig as soon as it happened. I see no way out. China is making noise about dumping the usd. Forward indeed.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 4 min Buck Crick 49,492
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 4 min guest 646,978
Why Australians should fear Muslims? (Feb '15) 9 min Truthiness 29
Just HOW angry is Satan??? 13 min Truthiness 25
dihydrocodeine Can you buy online. ?? (Jan '14) 34 min Ghost 26
guys what color panties are you wearing today??... 34 min str8npanty 3
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 1 hr Buck Crick 971,806
Poll Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 4 hr karl44 105,685
topix drops human sexuality forum.......this be... 10 hr WasteWater 27
More from around the web